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Post by Topper Gas on Oct 11, 2020 14:53:29 GMT
The mere fact that not all clubs are treated equally in the vote, already makes these proposals stink in my eyes. Why should the big six get preferential treatment, when the only reason they're in that "Big Six" is because they've spent insane amounts of money to get there. Particularly Man City who would never have been given that special treatment prior to getting what was like the real-life equivalent of a cheat on Football Manager video game. I fear that lower league clubs will be sucked in by the funding because they have no other choice, and then suddenly it'll be: "Remember when we helped you out? Well now it's time for you to give us something in return". Question for Gasheads, if it was a direct choice between the following, what would you rather we did? 1. Take the money on the basis that that let's B teams in 2. Reject the money, face liquidation, and form a new club to come back up through the non-league pyramid a la Wimbledon? The Premier League really have got the lower league clubs right where they want them, and I am really concerned about this. I hope I'm only being paranoid. But what if like Hereford or Boston (remember them?) etc we get stuck in the NLS for years, or even the NL like Wrexham have been for what seems decade or more, meanwhile, teams we use to play in L1 get ever stronger on the back of the Premiership money? As a bonus City's chances of get promoted for the next few seasons will be drastically reduced!
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Post by cj on Oct 11, 2020 15:11:51 GMT
So if this all goes ahead, 20 Premier league teams reduces to 18 teams and they want it to be 90 teams in the top 4 leagues instead of 92 teams, this will mean we will have to lose some more League 2 teams to the National league. 4 will have to get relegated from League 2 to the National league. That should go down well with the teams in League 2.
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Post by neilv93 on Oct 11, 2020 15:20:41 GMT
So if this all goes ahead, 20 Premier league teams reduces to 18 teams and they want it to be 90 teams in the top 4 leagues instead of 92 teams, this will mean we will have to lose some more League 2 teams to the National league. 4 will have to get relegated from League 2 to the National league. That should go down well with the teams in League 2. Playing devil's advocate here: would you rather lose your place in L2 but stay afloat via the PL money payment, or fold due to going bankrupt? Sounds horrible to say, and I'd hate it if it were us, but a price to pay probably for two clubs that desperately need the funds?
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Post by matealotblue on Oct 11, 2020 15:49:58 GMT
Next stop will be a European League for the top 6, with some sort of PL1/PL2 for the waifs and strays. Not that it will trouble us too much though. 🙄
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Post by axegas on Oct 11, 2020 16:04:49 GMT
The PL clubs will be arguing that you don’t get something for nothing but the EFL don’t give the PL nothing. You’ve just got to look at the England squad and a lot of the Prem XI’s to see all the stars that have learnt their trade playing and developing the EFL.
I really don’t think it’s unreasonable to ask the PL and the government for a bailout at a precarious time for many EFL clubs without being expected to just hand them massive power to shape the way football is being played in this country. It’s just greed and opportunism, nothing qualifies these clubs to be involved in making these laws apart from the money they have in their bank balance.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2020 16:24:22 GMT
FSA Statement: Response to media reports on “Project Big Picture” Posted on 11th October 2020
Earlier today it was reported that clubs at the top of the Premier League had been planning in secret to pursue a wide-ranging restructure of the English footballing pyramid named “Project Big Picture”. Below is an initial statement of response from the Football Supporters’ Association.
We will be providing further updates on the issue in the coming weeks once we have had the chance to digest the details of these proposals further:-
“The Football Supporters’ Association notes with grave concern today’s press reports of proposals for a major restructure of the Premier League, with far-reaching consequences for the whole of domestic football.
“Once again it appears that big decisions in football are apparently being stitched up behind our backs by billionaire club owners who continue to treat football as their personal fiefdom. Football is far more than a business to be carved up; it is part of our communities and our heritage, and football fans are its lifeblood. As football’s most important stakeholders, it is crucial that fans are consulted and involved in the game’s decision-making.
“We have welcomed the government’s commitment to a ‘fan-led review of the governance of football’; we would argue that today’s revelations have made that process even more relevant and urgent."
“We will of course study the detail of the new proposals, we remain open-minded to any suggestions for the improvement of the governance and organisation of the game, whatever their source, and we will continue to engage constructively in all discussions around reform. We would however emphasise that in our discussions so far, very few of our members have ever expressed the view that what football really needs is a greater concentration of power in the hands of the big six billionaire-owned clubs.”
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2020 16:39:29 GMT
What's to stop the Big 6 voting to increase the number of loans at each club in the future? B teams via the back door?
Why do they want an independent women's league - is it related to not wanting to fund women's football?
Why do they want to scrap the League Cup, when it provides entry to Europe?
I thought that the old style play offs were partially scrapped because there was a lot of crowd trouble, with so much being at stake for the premiership club (old First Division).
I'm always wary of wealthy people bearing gifts - it usually works out to their advantage in the long run.
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Post by darkbluegas on Oct 11, 2020 16:59:26 GMT
If it goes through it will see an up rated EFL but pretty much the end of any idea of clubs gaining access to the premier league beyond the usual Yo-yo clubs. Think it will appeal to some but will bring to an end the one thing that has made it interesting over the last 100 years. Soon to be an American style NFL, great fun for those that like that sort of thing.
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Post by neilv93 on Oct 11, 2020 17:43:20 GMT
The PL clubs will be arguing that you don’t get something for nothing but the EFL don’t give the PL nothing. You’ve just got to look at the England squad and a lot of the Prem XI’s to see all the stars that have learnt their trade playing and developing the EFL. I really don’t think it’s unreasonable to ask the PL and the government for a bailout at a precarious time for many EFL clubs without being expected to just hand them massive power to shape the way football is being played in this country. It’s just greed and opportunism, nothing qualifies these clubs to be involved in making these laws apart from the money they have in their bank balance. Again, playing devil's advocate: would you expect Costa and Starbucks to bail out Greasy Joe's Cafe for free or without requesting anything, short or long term, in return? It just doesn't happen.
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Post by Topper Gas on Oct 11, 2020 18:01:07 GMT
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Post by axegas on Oct 11, 2020 18:06:21 GMT
The PL clubs will be arguing that you don’t get something for nothing but the EFL don’t give the PL nothing. You’ve just got to look at the England squad and a lot of the Prem XI’s to see all the stars that have learnt their trade playing and developing the EFL. I really don’t think it’s unreasonable to ask the PL and the government for a bailout at a precarious time for many EFL clubs without being expected to just hand them massive power to shape the way football is being played in this country. It’s just greed and opportunism, nothing qualifies these clubs to be involved in making these laws apart from the money they have in their bank balance. Again, playing devil's advocate: would you expect Costa and Starbucks to bail out Greasy Joe's Cafe for free or without requesting anything, short or long term, in return? It just doesn't happen. That's a poor comparison though IMO. Greasy Joe's cafe doesn't do anything for Costa and Starbucks and is in direct competition with them. Chelsea and Manchester United at least get something from the clubs operating below them and aren't in any serious competition with them either. EFL clubs aren't really asking for much from them either, just for the PL to set a little bit of money aside from their huge broadcasting revenues to ensure the continued existence of many football clubs in the divisions below.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2020 18:11:56 GMT
Dropping 2 teams from the premiership cascades down through the other leagues, where does it stop? Will the National League be happy about booting 2 teams to National South + North, etc etc. There is life outside the EFL, and small clubs would also feel adverse affects.
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Post by neilv93 on Oct 11, 2020 18:35:38 GMT
Again, playing devil's advocate: would you expect Costa and Starbucks to bail out Greasy Joe's Cafe for free or without requesting anything, short or long term, in return? It just doesn't happen. That's a poor comparison though IMO. Greasy Joe's cafe doesn't do anything for Costa and Starbucks and is in direct competition with them. Chelsea and Manchester United at least get something from the clubs operating below them and aren't in any serious competition with them either. EFL clubs aren't really asking for much from them either, just for the PL to set a little bit of money aside from their huge broadcasting revenues to ensure the continued existence of many football clubs in the divisions below. Okay fair points but like I said, only playing devil's advocate.
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Post by bluebiro on Oct 11, 2020 18:44:05 GMT
Certainly kill football as a competition in this country. B teams by stealth. Chelsea by their proposal would have 4 in our team then 5 then 6. We.just become a surrogate club for those in the premier league. Certainly no need to waste investment on a stadium if this happens .
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Post by yaz on Oct 11, 2020 19:23:14 GMT
If it goes through it will see an up rated EFL but pretty much the end of any idea of clubs gaining access to the premier league beyond the usual Yo-yo clubs. Think it will appeal to some but will bring to an end the one thing that has made it interesting over the last 100 years. Soon to be an American style NFL, great fun for those that like that sort of thing. Agree about it becoming like the NFL and run like it. Owners there have far more say and in the past have stood against change, like taking the knee, etc.? I suggested in a different thread the amount of £100M for the non-Premier League clubs through to the lower league tiers but provided by the Government, who after all, are propping up the Arts with billions in these times. The Government should be "petitioned"? to provide support just like they have done for their banksters, Arts, etc. in the past with NO conditions. The Premier League, for most owners, has been a stepping stone to a Euro Super League for some time now. Generally, the rich and the powerful do not provide collateral unless there is something in it for them. A bit too late now, but the national game(s) like football, cricket, rugby, etc. should have been "protected" from big business owners some time ago? Let's see where this takes us in the future. Personally, as someone who likes watching lower league football, which is the heart and soul of football in this country, I would hate the proposed changes. I think it would also start to drive local team support away towards the big teams. Gone will be the days, if not already, where fans support their home clubs, irrespective of where they sit in the league tiers.
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Post by Topper Gas on Oct 11, 2020 19:28:54 GMT
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Post by Goose on Oct 11, 2020 20:47:18 GMT
I'm contemplating doing a petition about this, could the government intervene at all?
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Post by yaz on Oct 11, 2020 22:37:40 GMT
I'm contemplating doing a petition about this, could the government intervene at all? One way would be to start it on the Gaschat forum, keep it very simple and provide the link to all EFL supporters club forums so that they can also give us their thoughts? But I would precede a petition with a survey / questionnaire, keep it simple with YES NO answers and very importantly, try and get feedback from other EFL clubs as per above. Make sure they identify the club they support and any comments they have. This may then provide you with a basis for a petition? You will also have to provide links to background information so that respondents understand why you are doing this. Good Luck
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Post by Qatar Gas on Oct 12, 2020 5:23:01 GMT
So no official B teams, but clubs will be allowed to field more loan players? Although saying that, there's nothing to say the clubs have to take more players on loan so I don't think it will change that much.
Even before any sort of bail out comes, there's a good chance we will loose one or two league clubs anyway so you you wouldn't necessarily have to relegate extra clubs out of the football league to help reduce the PL numbers.
Am I correct in thinking, that these so called 'big clubs' with the extra voting power could actually stop a wealthy owner buying one of the smaller PL clubs if they thought it may be a threat to them? Essentially ending any chance of of the other PL clubs breaking into the top four.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2020 6:53:09 GMT
I'm contemplating doing a petition about this, could the government intervene at all? The Culture Secretary was on BBC Breakfast this morning - he is against the proposal. He feels that the premiership clubs are using the current situation to enable them to restructure the football leagues via the back room deal (paraphrasing here, as my memory is like a sieve). If the PL try to push ahead with it, there is something in the Conservative manifesto about reviewing the way professional football is run, and he would invoke this. Apparently PL clubs have said they would not let a smaller club go to the wall, but have not put any meat on the bones as to what they would offer to do. No doubt something will appear on the BBC website soon, so you can get an accurate record of what was discussed!
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