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Post by markczgas on Oct 31, 2020 20:46:34 GMT
Pretty poor so far , I’m yet to be convinced with this style that involves the defence playing pointless passes to each other and Westbrooke who seems to be a quarterback sitting in front of the playing pointless passes to the defence before we give the ball away. I’d like to see us play a more direct higher tempo game through midfield we’ve got the players to do it but everything seems to go through Westbrooke and he slows it down so much it’s infuriating I actually preferred Coughlans style. It’s a results business and as long as the results are at least half decent I’ll be happy but I think the whole Garners side are good to watch thing is a myth. Yes, agree. It makes me very nervous when they pass around at the back. They seem to overdo it and 30 seconds after they’ve started doing it they end up back where they started. Ehmer particularly looks uncomfortable when they do it. I worry that they do it just to tick a box about being “a good football-playing team”. Ultimately it’s not over effective because we usually end up sending it long. I suppose to be fair to the CHs the midfield don’t always give them a short forward pass except when ZW comes short and he rarely dribbles with it so he’s then looking for an out ball. But I do prefer this to CGs style. In the second half I was almost expecting us to score which we should have done, we had the chances and I thought the second half was good to watch. But I agree we weren’t good in the first half and that was poor after we scored. Individually we are good but the midfield “system” is not completely working atm. BG has plenty of choice there but he does have his work cut out to make that midfield effective, it wasn’t today. UTG! Interesting stuff guys. Sounds like you think our midfield is our weakest unit ? I'm going to disagree - for me the defence. I'm not convinced about our current back 3 - all look comfortable on the ball, but I also think you need at least one real aggressive type who will try to dominate the opp forward line - just think both Baldwin and Harries are a bit soft and careless. I'd love Alfie to really go for it and fight his way back into the side - for one of these 2. Watching the last 3 or 4 games I just know we are going to concede. I like our midfield - especially now Nicholson has be reintroduced. We've got Grant to do the simple and dirty work while Nicho and Westbrooke are class on the ball and will improve the more they play together. Hare and Tutonda are solid. Tutonda has the flair and think he'll score a few this season. Hare a bit dodgy defending but a great crosser and packs a great shot (including dead balls). Forward line - Hanlan and Daly are really impressive and as some said it'll be good to get Ayunga on the bench and JML back up to match speed. Goals there for sure. |
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Post by markczgas on Oct 31, 2020 20:48:21 GMT
A fair result from what I saw of the game. However, Garner need to get Hanlan/Nicholson/Daly a lot more clinical when attacking. The amount of chances we had to score in the 2nd half was unreal but somehow we never even got the shot away. Too often did Hanlan have the ball at his feat in the box with Daly/JML//Nicholson not having any idea where to run and Hanlan then looking completely lost and kicking it straight at their CB. Ok performance but lots to work on. But we can at least see a path now. End of October,9 games in, this is as good a position as I hoped we would be when I argued for giving Garner ten games/end October. Plus, we have a better squad than I anticipated...upto the manager and coaches to get them playing and winning more. They have the players be nice to see the squad used a bit more - mind you there are a few injuries. excited to see Koiki play. |
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Post by WeAreTheGas on Oct 31, 2020 20:53:41 GMT
Am I the only one who’s not totally sold on Tutonda as a wingback? Not sure we’re getting much from him in an attacking sense atm - only 3 crosses in the last 4 games (Hare put in 11 today!).
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Post by Dirt Dogg on Oct 31, 2020 21:11:30 GMT
Am I the only one who’s not totally sold on Tutonda as a wingback? Not sure we’re getting much from him in an attacking sense atm - only 3 crosses in the last 4 games (Hare put in 11 today!). He’s still very raw, obviously got the potential along with coaching to be a class player for us but I’m glad we’ve got other options. |
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Post by socrates on Oct 31, 2020 21:22:05 GMT
Pretty poor so far , I’m yet to be convinced with this style that involves the defence playing pointless passes to each other and Westbrooke who seems to be a quarterback sitting in front of the playing pointless passes to the defence before we give the ball away. I’d like to see us play a more direct higher tempo game through midfield we’ve got the players to do it but everything seems to go through Westbrooke and he slows it down so much it’s infuriating I actually preferred Coughlans style. It’s a results business and as long as the results are at least half decent I’ll be happy but I think the whole Garners side are good to watch thing is a myth. Yes, agree. It makes me very nervous when they pass around at the back. They seem to overdo it and 30 seconds after they’ve started doing it they end up back where they started. Ehmer particularly looks uncomfortable when they do it. I worry that they do it just to tick a box about being “a good football-playing team”. Ultimately it’s not over effective because we usually end up sending it long. I suppose to be fair to the CHs the midfield don’t always give them a short forward pass except when ZW comes short and he rarely dribbles with it so he’s then looking for an out ball. But I do prefer this to CGs style. In the second half I was almost expecting us to score which we should have done, we had the chances and I thought the second half was good to watch. But I agree we weren’t good in the first half and that was poor after we scored. Individually we are good but the midfield “system” is not completely working atm. BG has plenty of choice there but he does have his work cut out to make that midfield effective, it wasn’t today. UTG! Second half Westy pushed 20 yards further forward and suddenly he’s not passing it to Ehmer he’s playing forward balls to Hanlan , Nicholson etc and we look a better team with quicker tempo . That’s how we need to play when we take the lead that way we’ll score more and see games out. It was much better second half I wrote this post at half time 👆based on this games first half and our season So far in general. |
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Post by socrates on Oct 31, 2020 21:26:12 GMT
I think that the team lacks confidence, it’s got ability but very little experience and very little confidence that they can take teams on and steamroller them.
1-0 up today if we’d gone for the jugular from there with confidence and tempo we’d probably have got the second and done them.
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Post by warehamgas on Oct 31, 2020 21:45:16 GMT
Yes, agree. It makes me very nervous when they pass around at the back. They seem to overdo it and 30 seconds after they’ve started doing it they end up back where they started. Ehmer particularly looks uncomfortable when they do it. I worry that they do it just to tick a box about being “a good football-playing team”. Ultimately it’s not over effective because we usually end up sending it long. I suppose to be fair to the CHs the midfield don’t always give them a short forward pass except when ZW comes short and he rarely dribbles with it so he’s then looking for an out ball. But I do prefer this to CGs style. In the second half I was almost expecting us to score which we should have done, we had the chances and I thought the second half was good to watch. But I agree we weren’t good in the first half and that was poor after we scored. Individually we are good but the midfield “system” is not completely working atm. BG has plenty of choice there but he does have his work cut out to make that midfield effective, it wasn’t today. UTG! Interesting stuff guys. Sounds like you think our midfield is our weakest unit ? I'm going to disagree - for me the defence. I'm not convinced about our current back 3 - all look comfortable on the ball, but I also think you need at least one real aggressive type who will try to dominate the opp forward line - just think both Baldwin and Harries are a bit soft and careless. I'd love Alfie to really go for it and fight his way back into the side - for one of these 2. Watching the last 3 or 4 games I just know we are going to concede. I like our midfield - especially now Nicholson has be reintroduced. We've got Grant to do the simple and dirty work while Nicho and Westbrooke are class on the ball and will improve the more they play together. Hare and Tutonda are solid. Tutonda has the flair and think he'll score a few this season. Hare a bit dodgy defending but a great crosser and packs a great shot (including dead balls). Forward line - Hanlan and Daly are really impressive and as some said it'll be good to get Ayunga on the bench and JML back up to match speed. Goals there for sure. No Mark, I don’t think the midfield is weak. I’ve said this evening elsewhere that individually they all seem pretty good and that I like ZW a lot. And I think they will get better as they get used to playing together. But I don’t think they are playing as well as they will and that at the moment it isn’t working as well as it could. Today in the second half we had lots of chances to win it but either misplaced passes, overhitting the pass or waiting too long all meant that the chances were all wasted. Yes, it was a good point but we really could and should have won the match. But I expect the midfield to improve as the season goes. Baldwin does have a howler in him but I like the CHs and I was agreeing about how nervous the CHs make me when they start passing around too much only to launch it long and was giving them the excuse that the midfield didn’t always make themselves available so forcing them to go long. I think Ehmer is the aggressive CH that you want! And now he isn’t giving away free kicks on the edge of the penalty he has improved a lot imo. UTG! |
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Post by RD on Oct 31, 2020 22:20:59 GMT
ZW flatters to deceive IMO (currently). Hanlon looks great but we need goals. In fairness it's not like he's getting a bucket load of chances.
No idea why Oztumer isn't starting.
Baldwin terrifies me.
Ehmer looks overrated.
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Post by WeAreTheGas on Oct 31, 2020 22:42:17 GMT
Hanlon looks great but we need goals. In fairness it's not like he's getting a bucket load of chances. Is he getting any?! He’s had two penalties & stuck them away. Brave header at Shrewsbury. Probably should have done better with a 1v1 in that game too. Other than that? Genuinely don’t remember him having anything more than a half chance so far... Of Daly’s three goals, he’s basically made two of them himself. Any striker would struggle in our team. Agree with the rest of your points, btw. Although I’m still baffled as to why Ehmer isn’t in the middle of the back 3. |
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Post by 2nd May 1990 on Oct 31, 2020 22:49:13 GMT
Hanlon looks great but we need goals. In fairness it's not like he's getting a bucket load of chances. Is he getting any?! He’s had two penalties & stuck them away. Brave header at Shrewsbury. Probably should have done better with a 1v1 in that game too. Other than that? Genuinely don’t remember him having anything more than a half chance so far... Of Daly’s three goals so far, he basically made two of them himself. Any striker would struggle in our team. Agree with the rest of your points, btw. Although I’m still baffled as to why Ehmer isn’t in the middle of the back 3. I agree. Surely Ehmer in the middle with Kilgour right side and Harries left would be the best balanced and possibly the most solid defensively, but I guess Baldwin is supposedly the best on the ball and that’s important in how Garner wants to play. Hopefully he’ll improve as the new players continue to settle. |
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Post by yaz on Oct 31, 2020 23:02:44 GMT
Yes, agree. It makes me very nervous when they pass around at the back. They seem to overdo it and 30 seconds after they’ve started doing it they end up back where they started. Ehmer particularly looks uncomfortable when they do it. I worry that they do it just to tick a box about being “a good football-playing team”. Ultimately it’s not over effective because we usually end up sending it long. I suppose to be fair to the CHs the midfield don’t always give them a short forward pass except when ZW comes short and he rarely dribbles with it so he’s then looking for an out ball. But I do prefer this to CGs style. In the second half I was almost expecting us to score which we should have done, we had the chances and I thought the second half was good to watch. But I agree we weren’t good in the first half and that was poor after we scored. Individually we are good but the midfield “system” is not completely working atm. BG has plenty of choice there but he does have his work cut out to make that midfield effective, it wasn’t today. UTG! Interesting stuff guys. Sounds like you think our midfield is our weakest unit ? I'm going to disagree - for me the defence. I'm not convinced about our current back 3 - all look comfortable on the ball, but I also think you need at least one real aggressive type who will try to dominate the opp forward line - just think both Baldwin and Harries are a bit soft and careless. I'd love Alfie to really go for it and fight his way back into the side - for one of these 2. Watching the last 3 or 4 games I just know we are going to concede. I like our midfield - especially now Nicholson has be reintroduced. We've got Grant to do the simple and dirty work while Nicho and Westbrooke are class on the ball and will improve the more they play together. Hare and Tutonda are solid. Tutonda has the flair and think he'll score a few this season. Hare a bit dodgy defending but a great crosser and packs a great shot (including dead balls). Forward line - Hanlan and Daly are really impressive and as some said it'll be good to get Ayunga on the bench and JML back up to match speed. Goals there for sure. Defence is weak and can get punished. If Kilgour gets back and hits last season's "form", he could dominate the back but hard to do if the captain is one of the three centre backs? Maybe a foursome would be more solid so the formation should be adapted between 3/4 players depending on who / where we are playing and how the game is going? But I don't think the manager will allow that? I think we comment more on the midfield because there is room for significant improvement. In my opinion, the middle currently plays as individuals and not as a unit. They also do not seem to "feed" off each other's play. Not gelled or not cooked yet would be an apt description? Further, the individuals themselves can improve significantly and some of them have the potential to do much better! I tend to agree a lot with "warehamgas" comments above and reading of this ans previous games and what we need to do better to improve. So if you look at the 3 units of defence, midfield and attack, there is a long way to go for each unit to gel within itself and then each unit to link up with each other and also so that some players move up / down a unit depending on whether we are attacking or defending. How much time do we give them to gel? If it is a long term project, contracts will be coming up for renewal by the time they start to bear fruit? Xmas should be enough games to tell us and also where we stand in the league and realistically could end up so that more players could be given a chance to join the gel mix? We have dropped some easy points so far and seem to score early, maybe too early? Early scoring shows good preparation? So maybe the players need a good "reminder" at the start of every quarter from the side to keep up the impetus?! Up The Gel Up The Cooking (Gas is usually better than lec?) UTG |
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Post by GasAttacK on Oct 31, 2020 23:06:10 GMT
Area to improve:
We have to cut out these individual errors at the back. Schoolboy defending for their goal.
First half very poor. Defensive distribution very poor and midfield non existant.
We had a number of good attacking opportunies in the second half but failed to create a clear cut chance. Final ball or cross has to be better.
Not convinced by Baldwin or Grant and Tutonda has gone off the boil.
Having said all that I was fairly happy with a point and encouraged by a lot of what I saw in the second half. Midfield actually had good possession in the oppositions half instead of picking up the ball very deep and simply giving it back to the defence. Maybe unlucky not to take all 3 points in the end.
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Post by Topper Gas on Oct 31, 2020 23:06:40 GMT
Am I the only one who’s not totally sold on Tutonda as a wingback? Not sure we’re getting much from him in an attacking sense atm - only 3 crosses in the last 4 games (Hare put in 11 today!). He’s still very raw, obviously got the potential along with coaching to be a class player for us but I’m glad we’ve got other options. I can't understand how a left wing back can chase the ball so far after he's lost possession that he finds himself on the right wing, it's as if he's just started playing football not he's been playing it for years, he seems a bit of a liability at the moment, hence why I BG wasted his first sub by having to bring on Leahy. Oztumer seems to have already joined Upson (& Ogogo) as being a forgotten oldie! |
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Post by yaz on Oct 31, 2020 23:15:46 GMT
Am I the only one who’s not totally sold on Tutonda as a wingback? Not sure we’re getting much from him in an attacking sense atm - only 3 crosses in the last 4 games (Hare put in 11 today!). He’s still very raw, obviously got the potential along with coaching to be a class player for us but I’m glad we’ve got other options. I agree. I think he lacks direction and looks lost last 3/4 games? Leahy and Hare play it simple; go up the wing if possible and cross it. They did this last season and it worked well! Tutonda has good dribbling skills; personally, I would use him in the left middle and tell him to run at the opposition and get the ball in the box asap? He needs to be handled / directed properly? |
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Post by WeAreTheGas on Oct 31, 2020 23:18:13 GMT
Midfield actually had good possession in the oppositions half instead of picking up the ball very deep and simply giving it back to the defence. Think this happened less (midfield dropping too deep) in the 2nd half because: 1) The defence played higher up the pitch 2) Baldwin & Harries started stepping into midfield with the ball In the first half the defence was too deep & the defenders were happy just to smash it over the midfield whenever they got it, which I think makes Westbrooke & Grant drop deeper in order to try & see some of the ball. |
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Post by bridgwatergas on Oct 31, 2020 23:24:13 GMT
Am I the only one who’s not totally sold on Tutonda as a wingback? Not sure we’re getting much from him in an attacking sense atm - only 3 crosses in the last 4 games (Hare put in 11 today!). He is raw and needs alot of work on his game. His first start he impressed but since then I think he has been a massive liability and been over hyped by quite a few on here. Was not at all surprised he got subbed today and I think Leahy should start on Tuesday as we looked alot better after he came on. |
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Post by yaz on Oct 31, 2020 23:48:46 GMT
Am I the only one who’s not totally sold on Tutonda as a wingback? Not sure we’re getting much from him in an attacking sense atm - only 3 crosses in the last 4 games (Hare put in 11 today!). He is raw and needs alot of work on his game. His first start he impressed but since then I think he has been a massive liability and been over hyped by quite a few on here. Was not at all surprised he got subbed today and I think Leahy should start on Tuesday as we looked alot better after he came on. I agree he got hyped early games. Similarly I think Leahy got undeserved flak when you consider his role and what he does and did for us last season. Leahy and Hare should be definite starters in most games as they complement each other. By this I mean they seem to have similar aims on their wing, ie. get as far up as possible and cross it into the box! Defences get really pulled apart as the threat is from both sides when we break. Also our forwards knew that if one of these 2 was going down the wing, there was a good chance the ball would be coming into the box so need to get there. Simple but worked well and forwards make meaningful runs and save energy otherwise? What should the aim of a good footballing team be? Get the ball into the box as much as possible? Pretty effective? Up The Wing UTG |
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Post by socrates on Nov 1, 2020 2:10:31 GMT
ZW flatters to deceive IMO (currently). Hanlon looks great but we need goals. In fairness it's not like he's getting a bucket load of chances. No idea why Oztumer isn't starting. Baldwin terrifies me. Ehmer looks overrated. Our defence look dodgey because they haven’t got an experienced defensive midfielder in front of them and also they’re all very similar in that they’re ok passing out they’re big lads and they’ve got no pace between the three of them. Also Westbrooke is wasted playing in that quarterback role that hes been playing mostly in. Yesterday second half he stopped doing that and was mostly in Rochdales half and rather than going backwards and boring he played some decent quick tempo passes into dangerous areas, ok we didn’t score in the second half but I think that’s how we should use him. Until the second half yesterday I think Westbrooke reminds me of lines once his legs had gone and I think we can utilise him in a more attacking role than that. We need to because we’re simply just not creating enough chances in pretty much every game. |
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Post by putterbishopston on Nov 1, 2020 6:06:02 GMT
We are slowly improving as the original Garnerball ideology gets diluted game by game, yesterday saw us almost return to the hoofball that we all know so well.
The back 3 of defence is of concern, very slow, ball watching and prone to mistakes, Harries needs to work on his long ball skill's.
Very little link play between Def-Mid-Att. We are lucky to have had a couple of great individual moments and goals that have papered over the cracks.
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Post by daniel300380 on Nov 1, 2020 8:02:25 GMT
Am I the only one who’s not totally sold on Tutonda as a wingback? Not sure we’re getting much from him in an attacking sense atm - only 3 crosses in the last 4 games (Hare put in 11 today!). He seemed to play a lot better in his first two games. He looked composed on the ball and was looking to take people on. Last few games he seems to panic and get rid of the ball quicker. Hopefully he can rediscover his form. Atleast we have lots of left backs now! BG is probably getting the new one up to speed first though, like he is with Liddle. |
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