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Post by Officer Barbrady on Nov 23, 2020 23:52:09 GMT
So the numbers about average for this time of year then. Did you read it?
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yattongas
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Post by yattongas on Nov 23, 2020 23:59:25 GMT
So the numbers about average for this time of year then. Did you read it? You’re wasting your time mate . Seriously, what ever facts you give they come back with more nonsense.
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pirate
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Post by pirate on Nov 24, 2020 0:00:57 GMT
I'd suggest protecting the vulnerable i.e. suggest to the elderly and at at risk groups with underlying health conditions that they shield and let them make their own informed decision whether to do it or not. People most at risk are the ones with those underlying health conditions and the average age of people sadly dying is 80-years-old. The vast majority that catch it are fine.
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Post by yattongas on Nov 24, 2020 0:09:55 GMT
I'd suggest protecting the vulnerable i.e. suggest to the elderly and at at risk groups with underlying health conditions that they shield and let them make their own informed decision whether to do it or not. People most at risk are the ones with those underlying health conditions and the average age of people sadly dying is 80-years-old. The vast majority that catch it are fine. You put up a graph literally a few hours ago saying that excess deaths weren’t happening now ...... so why would you have to Shield the vulnerable if there’s nothing to worry about ? I’m struggling to keep up with this crackpottiness !!!?
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pirate
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Post by pirate on Nov 24, 2020 0:42:22 GMT
I'd suggest protecting the vulnerable i.e. suggest to the elderly and at at risk groups with underlying health conditions that they shield and let them make their own informed decision whether to do it or not. People most at risk are the ones with those underlying health conditions and the average age of people sadly dying is 80-years-old. The vast majority that catch it are fine. You put up a graph literally a few hours ago saying that excess deaths weren’t happening now ...... so why would you have to Shield the vulnerable if there’s nothing to worry about ? I’m struggling to keep up with this crackpottiness !!!? As you clearly find it difficult to take in, I'll explain my reasoning again just for you. Hopefully it will be simple enough for someone like you to understand. The vast majority of healthy people under the age 80 suffer no serious ill effects from Covid-19 and the the people that are most affected are people with underlying health conditions. The average age of people dying is 80-years-old, so therefore those people at risk are the ones that should be advised (not forced) to shield and let the rest of us get on with our lives. Crashing the economy with a disproportionate lockdown won't help anyone as it's likely to do more long term harm than good with the extra avoidable cancer and dementia deaths, suicides, heart attacks, and all the other ailments that will increase as a direct result of lockdown, a number predicted to be far higher than those dying with Covid-19 itself.
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Post by stuart1974 on Nov 24, 2020 1:10:22 GMT
You put up a graph literally a few hours ago saying that excess deaths weren’t happening now ...... so why would you have to Shield the vulnerable if there’s nothing to worry about ? I’m struggling to keep up with this crackpottiness !!!? As you clearly find it difficult to take in, I'll explain my reasoning again just for you. Hopefully it will be simple enough for someone like you to understand. The vast majority of healthy people under the age 80 suffer no serious ill effects from Covid-19 and the the people that are most affected are people with underlying health conditions. The average age of people dying is 80-years-old, so therefore those people at risk are the ones that should be advised (not forced) to shield and let the rest of us get on with our lives. Crashing the economy with a disproportionate lockdown won't help anyone as it's likely to do more long term harm than good with the extra avoidable cancer and dementia deaths, suicides, heart attacks, and all the other ailments that will increase as a direct result of lockdown, a number predicted to be far higher than those dying with Covid-19 itself. Shielding without support of a lockdown is a myth, it will get to them eventually. Also by allowing the virus to spread it increases the opportunity to mutate, illness will cause longer term complications even in the healthy and business affected by sick days, health service inundated regardless. There are no easy or cheap options, but I would say that if your suggestion was possible then governments would do it. Seems one of your sources has previous on underestimating the virus (only 10,000 deaths in the US) if this article is true: "Maybe the strongest criticism against Ioannidis is that, in his way, he contributed to underestimating a disease whose effects on the body, even on asymptomatic carriers of the virus, are still not fully understood, while those who have been sick describe going through a very difficult time." www.ekathimerini.com/255374/article/ekathimerini/news/the-greek-american-epidemiologist-who-misled-donald-trumpRegardless, he is quantifying the options here: “Hygiene measures (hand washing and respiratory etiquette), proper use of masks where appropriate, avoidance of mass events, and avoidance of congestion are standard measures,” he replies. “It is possible that they may not suffice to fully contain the spread and that some substantial spread will continue. “In this case,” he cautions, “a lockdown is not the answer. It will not decrease the spread at this point very much, plus it will be devastating, as we discussed. Attention should thus be given to protecting the vulnerable groups and settings with draconian measures so as to avoid having the virus spread to people where it can be highly lethal. “This means,” he said, “repeated universal testing in nursing homes and in hospital staff and health care workers and in any other high risk location (prisons, refugee shelters, some high risk jobs) and extra protection with reduced exposure to risk for highly vulnerable individuals.” www.google.com/amp/s/usa.greekreporter.com/2020/09/24/greece-should-not-impose-a-lockdown-stanford-john-ioannidis/amp/Our track and trace needs fixing if we are going to release from lockdown or even the tiered approach.
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pirate
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Post by pirate on Nov 24, 2020 1:51:36 GMT
As you clearly find it difficult to take in, I'll explain my reasoning again just for you. Hopefully it will be simple enough for someone like you to understand. The vast majority of healthy people under the age 80 suffer no serious ill effects from Covid-19 and the the people that are most affected are people with underlying health conditions. The average age of people dying is 80-years-old, so therefore those people at risk are the ones that should be advised (not forced) to shield and let the rest of us get on with our lives. Crashing the economy with a disproportionate lockdown won't help anyone as it's likely to do more long term harm than good with the extra avoidable cancer and dementia deaths, suicides, heart attacks, and all the other ailments that will increase as a direct result of lockdown, a number predicted to be far higher than those dying with Covid-19 itself. Shielding without support of a lockdown is a myth, it will get to them eventually. Also by allowing the virus to spread it increases the opportunity to mutate, illness will cause longer term complications even in the healthy and business affected by sick days, health service inundated regardless. There are no easy or cheap options, but I would say that if your suggestion was possible then governments would do it. Seems one of your sources has previous on underestimating the virus (only 10,000 deaths in the US) if this article is true:
"Maybe the strongest criticism against Ioannidis is that, in his way, he contributed to underestimating a disease whose effects on the body, even on asymptomatic carriers of the virus, are still not fully understood, while those who have been sick describe going through a very difficult time."
www.ekathimerini.com/255374/article/ekathimerini/news/the-greek-american-epidemiologist-who-misled-donald-trump"Only 6% of these died solely of the coronavirus, according to a recent Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) report; the rest had, on average, 2.6 underlying conditions" 6% of 150,000 = 9,000 Back around the time of the start of the second lockdown 32 scientists, economists and other academics wrote to the Prime Minister demanding a change in policy on Covid-19, saying that attempting to suppress the virus is ‘increasingly infeasible’. They have instead demanded that vulnerable groups should be protected from the disease while younger people should be allowed to get on with their lives. 12,115 medical & public health scientists and 35,238 medical practitioners have now signed the Great Barrington Declaration. gbdeclaration.org
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yattongas
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Post by yattongas on Nov 24, 2020 8:04:16 GMT
You put up a graph literally a few hours ago saying that excess deaths weren’t happening now ...... so why would you have to Shield the vulnerable if there’s nothing to worry about ? I’m struggling to keep up with this crackpottiness !!!? As you clearly find it difficult to take in, I'll explain my reasoning again just for you. Hopefully it will be simple enough for someone like you to understand. The vast majority of healthy people under the age 80 suffer no serious ill effects from Covid-19 and the the people that are most affected are people with underlying health conditions. The average age of people dying is 80-years-old, so therefore those people at risk are the ones that should be advised (not forced) to shield and let the rest of us get on with our lives. Crashing the economy with a disproportionate lockdown won't help anyone as it's likely to do more long term harm than good with the extra avoidable cancer and dementia deaths, suicides, heart attacks, and all the other ailments that will increase as a direct result of lockdown, a number predicted to be far higher than those dying with Covid-19 itself. Who do you think looks after the over 80s and those with with underlying health issues ? Your idea to just shut them away indefinitely is incredibly cruel and not thought out . What about those in their 60-70s ? Are you ok with 1% of them dying or should we shut them away as well ? Crackpot
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Post by Officer Barbrady on Nov 24, 2020 8:42:19 GMT
Shielding without support of a lockdown is a myth, it will get to them eventually. Also by allowing the virus to spread it increases the opportunity to mutate, illness will cause longer term complications even in the healthy and business affected by sick days, health service inundated regardless. There are no easy or cheap options, but I would say that if your suggestion was possible then governments would do it. Seems one of your sources has previous on underestimating the virus (only 10,000 deaths in the US) if this article is true:
"Maybe the strongest criticism against Ioannidis is that, in his way, he contributed to underestimating a disease whose effects on the body, even on asymptomatic carriers of the virus, are still not fully understood, while those who have been sick describe going through a very difficult time."
www.ekathimerini.com/255374/article/ekathimerini/news/the-greek-american-epidemiologist-who-misled-donald-trump"Only 6% of these died solely of the coronavirus, according to a recent Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) report; the rest had, on average, 2.6 underlying conditions" 6% of 150,000 = 9,000 Back around the time of the start of the second lockdown 32 scientists, economists and other academics wrote to the Prime Minister demanding a change in policy on Covid-19, saying that attempting to suppress the virus is ‘increasingly infeasible’. They have instead demanded that vulnerable groups should be protected from the disease while younger people should be allowed to get on with their lives. 12,115 medical & public health scientists and 35,238 medical practitioners have now signed the Great Barrington Declaration. gbdeclaration.orgThis is getting laughable now. So because somebody has asthma or diabetes we can dismiss their covid death can we? 50,000k dead but half had high blood pressure? What do you know about underlying conditions?
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Post by stuart1974 on Nov 24, 2020 8:47:08 GMT
Shielding without support of a lockdown is a myth, it will get to them eventually. Also by allowing the virus to spread it increases the opportunity to mutate, illness will cause longer term complications even in the healthy and business affected by sick days, health service inundated regardless. There are no easy or cheap options, but I would say that if your suggestion was possible then governments would do it. Seems one of your sources has previous on underestimating the virus (only 10,000 deaths in the US) if this article is true:
"Maybe the strongest criticism against Ioannidis is that, in his way, he contributed to underestimating a disease whose effects on the body, even on asymptomatic carriers of the virus, are still not fully understood, while those who have been sick describe going through a very difficult time."
www.ekathimerini.com/255374/article/ekathimerini/news/the-greek-american-epidemiologist-who-misled-donald-trump"Only 6% of these died solely of the coronavirus, according to a recent Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) report; the rest had, on average, 2.6 underlying conditions" 6% of 150,000 = 9,000 Back around the time of the start of the second lockdown 32 scientists, economists and other academics wrote to the Prime Minister demanding a change in policy on Covid-19, saying that attempting to suppress the virus is ‘increasingly infeasible’. They have instead demanded that vulnerable groups should be protected from the disease while younger people should be allowed to get on with their lives. 12,115 medical & public health scientists and 35,238 medical practitioners have now signed the Great Barrington Declaration. gbdeclaration.org How many loved ones do you have who are in the vulnerable category? I have 5, 4 of whom rely on me for various things such as food or care. To protect them I'd also need to isolate as will my wife and daughter. My daughter wouldn't be able to go to school.
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yattongas
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Post by yattongas on Nov 24, 2020 8:51:37 GMT
"Only 6% of these died solely of the coronavirus, according to a recent Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) report; the rest had, on average, 2.6 underlying conditions" 6% of 150,000 = 9,000 Back around the time of the start of the second lockdown 32 scientists, economists and other academics wrote to the Prime Minister demanding a change in policy on Covid-19, saying that attempting to suppress the virus is ‘increasingly infeasible’. They have instead demanded that vulnerable groups should be protected from the disease while younger people should be allowed to get on with their lives. 12,115 medical & public health scientists and 35,238 medical practitioners have now signed the Great Barrington Declaration. gbdeclaration.orgThis is getting laughable now. So because somebody has asthma or diabetes we can dismiss their covid death can we? 50,000k dead but half had high blood pressure? What do you know about underlying conditions? Excess death rate 75000 now I think . That’s not so bad is it Pirate ?
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Post by Officer Barbrady on Nov 24, 2020 8:55:50 GMT
This is getting laughable now. So because somebody has asthma or diabetes we can dismiss their covid death can we? 50,000k dead but half had high blood pressure? What do you know about underlying conditions? Excess death rate 75000 now I think . That’s not so bad is it Pirate ? False positives mate
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2020 9:11:19 GMT
BitChute is a video hosting service known for accommodating far-right individuals and conspiracy theorists, and for hosting hateful material. Wikipedia So you're saying that Dr Yeadon is a right wing conspiracy theorist? Basically? AND - you can't throw out a *that's a conspiracy theory* accusation, and then cite Wikipedia. That's just poor form. Attack the content not the host. Trump has Twitter. Do you use Twitter? Does that make every Twitter user a Trump supporter? Cos from what I've seen, that one doesn't add up either. With all of the garbage on the internet, you just aren't going to get far by linking to dodgy image boards, the gutter of the internet (yes, even below football forums) Handy for people to know that the link they may be unwittingly clicking on is from a site that may contain right wing racist views and other hateful things that bristol rovers wouldn't want to be associated with in any way. Yeah the Dr/scientist makes points which absolutely need to be listened to & discussed, surely he has written researched medical articles/books on the subject? Twitter is a moderated platform, and your argument there is odd to say the least.
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pirate
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Post by pirate on Nov 24, 2020 9:13:16 GMT
As you clearly find it difficult to take in, I'll explain my reasoning again just for you. Hopefully it will be simple enough for someone like you to understand. The vast majority of healthy people under the age 80 suffer no serious ill effects from Covid-19 and the the people that are most affected are people with underlying health conditions. The average age of people dying is 80-years-old, so therefore those people at risk are the ones that should be advised (not forced) to shield and let the rest of us get on with our lives. Crashing the economy with a disproportionate lockdown won't help anyone as it's likely to do more long term harm than good with the extra avoidable cancer and dementia deaths, suicides, heart attacks, and all the other ailments that will increase as a direct result of lockdown, a number predicted to be far higher than those dying with Covid-19 itself. Who do you think looks after the over 80s and those with with underlying health issues ? Your idea to just shut them away indefinitely is incredibly cruel and not thought out . What about those in their 60-70s ? Are you ok with 1% of them dying or should we shut them away as well ? Crackpot Everyone is a 'crackpot', unless they agree with yattongas off the Rovers forum. Lol. I'm sure the 47,000+ doctors and scientists who signed The Great Barrington Declaration are all 'crackpots' too. Anyway, I'll try not to get too distracted by your name calling, as im sure a coward like you wouldn't dare call someone names to their face. I said before it would be their choice, if they didn't want to isolate they wouldn't have to. Where do you get 1% from? The latest fatality figure published by the WHO is 0.05% for under 70s. Nobody is happy with anyone dying, but many more people are expected to die from the lockdown than Covid-19 itself.
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yattongas
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Post by yattongas on Nov 24, 2020 9:15:28 GMT
Who do you think looks after the over 80s and those with with underlying health issues ? Your idea to just shut them away indefinitely is incredibly cruel and not thought out . What about those in their 60-70s ? Are you ok with 1% of them dying or should we shut them away as well ? Crackpot Everyone is a 'crackpot', unless they agree with yattongas off the Rovers forum. Lol. I'm sure the 47,000+ doctors and scientists who signed The Great Barrington Declaration are all 'crackpots' too. Anyway, I'll try not to get too distracted by your name calling, as im sure a coward like you wouldn't dare call someone names to their face. I said before it would be their choice, if they didn't want to isolate they wouldn't have to. Where do you get 1% from? The latest fatality figure published by the WHO is 0.05% for under 70s. Nobody is happy with anyone dying, but many more people are expected to die from the lockdown than Covid-19 itself. I’d happily say it to your face pirate .
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Post by Officer Barbrady on Nov 24, 2020 9:17:39 GMT
Who do you think looks after the over 80s and those with with underlying health issues ? Your idea to just shut them away indefinitely is incredibly cruel and not thought out . What about those in their 60-70s ? Are you ok with 1% of them dying or should we shut them away as well ? Crackpot Everyone is a 'crackpot', unless they agree with yattongas off the Rovers forum. Lol. I'm sure the 47,000+ doctors and scientists who signed The Great Barrington Declaration are all 'crackpots' too. Anyway, I'll try not to get too distracted by your name calling, as im sure a coward like you wouldn't dare call someone names to their face. I said before it would be their choice, if they didn't want to isolate they wouldn't have to. Where do you get 1% from? The latest fatality figure published by the WHO is 0.05% for under 70s. Nobody is happy with anyone dying, but many more people are expected to die from the lockdown than Covid-19 itself. How many people are projected to die if the hospitals are overwhelmed pirate? Can you give us a twitter link?
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yattongas
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Post by yattongas on Nov 24, 2020 9:24:48 GMT
Who do you think looks after the over 80s and those with with underlying health issues ? Your idea to just shut them away indefinitely is incredibly cruel and not thought out . What about those in their 60-70s ? Are you ok with 1% of them dying or should we shut them away as well ? Crackpot Everyone is a 'crackpot', unless they agree with yattongas off the Rovers forum. Lol. I'm sure the 47,000+ doctors and scientists who signed The Great Barrington Declaration are all 'crackpots' too. Anyway, I'll try not to get too distracted by your name calling, as im sure a coward like you wouldn't dare call someone names to their face. I said before it would be their choice, if they didn't want to isolate they wouldn't have to. Where do you get 1% from? The latest fatality figure published by the WHO is 0.05% for under 70s. Nobody is happy with anyone dying, but many more people are expected to die from the lockdown than Covid-19 itself. I’d happily say it to your face pirate . Ps have you read who’s signed the great Barrington declaration? An open letter that made headlines calling for a herd immunity approach to Covid-19 lists a number of apparently fake names among its expert signatories, including “Dr Johnny Bananas” and “Professor Cominic Dummings”. The Great Barrington declaration, which was said to have been signed by more than 15,000 scientists and medical practitioners around the world, was found by Sky News to contain numerous false names, as well as those of several homeopaths. Others listed include a resident at the “university of your mum” and another supposed specialist whose name was the first verse of the Macarena. Scientists call for Covid herd immunity strategy for young Sky News discovered 18 self-declared homeopaths in the list of expert names and more than 100 therapists whose expertise included massage, hypnotherapy and Mongolian khoomii singing. The declaration drew widespread attention this week when it called for an easing of lockdown measures, allowing most people to return to normal life while protecting the most vulnerable. Individual academics from the universities of Oxford, Cambridge, Harvard, Stanford, Nottingham, Edinburgh, Exeter, Sussex and York were among experts from around the world who signed the declaration. However, the declaration’s website allows anyone to add their name to the list if they provide an email address, home city, postcode and name. Signatories also tell the site whether they are medical and public health scientists, medical practitioners or members of the general public – of whom almost 160,000 claim to have signed. It is not clear how many of the names in the declaration’s list of experts are fake, or when they appeared. However, many scientists have already criticised the letter’s conclusions. Dr Michael Head, a senior research fellow in global health at the University of Southampton, said the declaration was “a very bad idea” and doubted that vulnerable people would be able to avoid the virus if it was allowed to become widespread. “Ultimately, the Barrington Declaration is based on principles that are dangerous to national and global public health,” said Head. Prof Jeremy Rossman, of the University of Kent, pointed out that research suggested protective antibody responses might “decay rapidly” and that there have been cases of reinfection of the virus. The chief executive of NHS England, Sir Simon Stevens, has said asking all over-65s to shield to slow the transmission of the second wave of coronavirus would be “age-based apartheid”. The declaration has also been accused of ignoring the growing evidence on long Covid, whereby thousands of fit and young people who contract the virus have been left with debilitating symptoms months after a mild infection. The declaration calls for an approach it describes as “focused protection”, arguing that keeping lockdowns in place until a vaccine is available “will cause irreparable damage, with the underprivileged disproportionately harmed”.
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Post by Gassy on Nov 24, 2020 9:40:23 GMT
You put up a graph literally a few hours ago saying that excess deaths weren’t happening now ...... so why would you have to Shield the vulnerable if there’s nothing to worry about ? I’m struggling to keep up with this crackpottiness !!!? As you clearly find it difficult to take in, I'll explain my reasoning again just for you. Hopefully it will be simple enough for someone like you to understand. Who do you think looks after the over 80s and those with with underlying health issues ? Your idea to just shut them away indefinitely is incredibly cruel and not thought out . What about those in their 60-70s ? Are you ok with 1% of them dying or should we shut them away as well ? Crackpot Everyone is a 'crackpot', unless they agree with yattongas off the Rovers forum. Lol. I'm sure the 47,000+ doctors and scientists who signed The Great Barrington Declaration are all 'crackpots' too. Anyway, I'll try not to get too distracted by your name calling, as im sure a coward like you wouldn't dare call someone names to their face. Thats ironic.
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yattongas
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Post by yattongas on Nov 24, 2020 9:44:57 GMT
As you clearly find it difficult to take in, I'll explain my reasoning again just for you. Hopefully it will be simple enough for someone like you to understand. Everyone is a 'crackpot', unless they agree with yattongas off the Rovers forum. Lol. I'm sure the 47,000+ doctors and scientists who signed The Great Barrington Declaration are all 'crackpots' too. Anyway, I'll try not to get too distracted by your name calling, as im sure a coward like you wouldn't dare call someone names to their face. Thats ironic. He posts nonsense. I rip it apart . Rinse , repeat .
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pirate
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Post by pirate on Nov 24, 2020 9:51:33 GMT
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