|
|
Post by oldie on Jun 6, 2021 9:13:25 GMT
Because it has become a pious platitude. We go through the motions and then brush it under the carpet. And yes, I have a Black friend who has related his experiences to me, and yes, I have read and watched much about the rise of Nazism. Do we? Tearing down the Colston statue suggests otherwise |
|
|
|
Post by bluegas on Jun 6, 2021 9:16:50 GMT
Because it has become a pious platitude. We go through the motions and then brush it under the carpet. And yes, I have a Black friend who has related his experiences to me, and yes, I have read and watched much about the rise of Nazism. Do we? Tearing down the Colston statue suggests otherwise Which achieved what? Looked more like the usual rabble jumping on a bandwagon. |
|
|
|
Post by Hugh Jarsole on Jun 6, 2021 9:20:20 GMT
Because it has become a pious platitude. We go through the motions and then brush it under the carpet. And yes, I have a Black friend who has related his experiences to me, and yes, I have read and watched much about the rise of Nazism. Do we? Tearing down the Colston statue suggests otherwise I've spoken about this with friends and colleagues and the general feeling I get is it was right to come down, just not in the way it was. Two wrongs never make a right |
|
|
|
Post by Hugh Jarsole on Jun 6, 2021 9:22:39 GMT
I'm not racist, I have ethnic friends..... Cool story bro. Please explain why or how someone taking a knee makes the slightest difference to your life to the point where it upsets you so much. You've said it - it makes not the slightest difference. It has become a hollow gesture. To you maybe, but it still means a hell of a lot to others including about two thirds of the England team itself, have you not noticed most of the players are black and get abuse daily? |
|
|
|
Post by Westy on Jun 6, 2021 9:30:10 GMT
Ok. I am a racist if that helps. If that's what you want. Jesus, how some people try hard to stop a sensible debate. I will say anything to have a united support for our first home game. Answer why some teams are no longer taking the knee. Crystal Palace being one. There's not really anything to debate. Discrimination still happens, people are getting tired of it, and taking a non-violent, non-obtrusive/disruptive symbolic gesture to say they've had enough. I honestly can't see what's up for debate 🤷♂️ |
|
|
|
Post by bluegas on Jun 6, 2021 9:32:16 GMT
You've said it - it makes not the slightest difference. It has become a hollow gesture. To you maybe, but it still means a hell of a lot to others including about two thirds of the England team itself, have you not noticed most of the players are black and get abuse daily? Yes, I have. And it doesn't upset me. It just seems to be getting nowhere. It didn't get through to some guy in, I think, Hong Kong. |
|
|
|
Post by Hugo the Elder on Jun 6, 2021 9:34:27 GMT
I'm not racist, I have ethnic friends..... Cool story bro. Please explain why or how someone taking a knee makes the slightest difference to your life to the point where it upsets you so much. You've said it - it makes not the slightest difference. It has become a hollow gesture. I don't disagree. |
|
|
|
Post by baggins on Jun 6, 2021 9:38:27 GMT
Taking the knee has, is, highlighting racism problems for those that needed it pointing it out to them. It's not stopping it though. What needs to happen is media giants have to start working harder to provide details of those involved and then the judicial system should be adapted to punish them harder. Maybe a few years in prison might get through to them? Maybe if it was put in the press that these racists are not only being caught but are being locked up.
How you deal with someone who's carrying this out from the comfort of his own home on the other side of the World is beyond me.
|
|
|
|
Post by syg on Jun 6, 2021 9:41:15 GMT
The only thing the team did consistently and ultimately a waste of time. Maybe we will have knee taking for Asians next next season.
|
|
|
|
Post by oldie on Jun 6, 2021 9:42:10 GMT
Do we? Tearing down the Colston statue suggests otherwise Which achieved what? Looked more like the usual rabble jumping on a bandwagon. So, If professional athletes, people who have "lead by example" status with young children, choose to highlight the issue of systemic racism by taking the knee, that is a "pious platitude". If people take direct action against a monument to genocide embodied by the life and actions of Colston then they are "the usual rabble". I dont know obviously, but it appears to me that you do not like any act of highlighting racism. |
|
|
|
Post by oldie on Jun 6, 2021 9:45:25 GMT
The only thing the team did consistently and ultimately a waste of time. Maybe we will have knee taking for Asians next next season. There you have it, in all its ugly glory |
|
|
|
Post by Hugh Jarsole on Jun 6, 2021 9:46:43 GMT
To you maybe, but it still means a hell of a lot to others including about two thirds of the England team itself, have you not noticed most of the players are black and get abuse daily? Yes, I have. And it doesn't upset me. It just seems to be getting nowhere. It didn't get through to some guy in, I think, Hong Kong. There's not a lot else that can be done, it's a ten second action thats done in a peaceful way to remind, and the fact that we are even talking about it one year in after the event shows it has worked, the fact a discussion was even opened in the forum suggesting it is hollow has, in itself opened it upto debate, its questioned if it really matters anymore and has accidently put the spotlight back on the subject. And to those that boo the taking of the knee, you're only part of the problem. |
|
|
|
Post by oldie on Jun 6, 2021 9:53:41 GMT
Taking the knee has, is, highlighting racism problems for those that needed it pointing it out to them. It's not stopping it though. What needs to happen is media giants have to start working harder to provide details of those involved and then the judicial system should be adapted to punish them harder. Maybe a few years in prison might get through to them? Maybe if it was put in the press that these racists are not only being caught but are being locked up. How you deal with someone who's carrying this out from the comfort of his own home on the other side of the World is beyond me. No Baggins Individual acts of stupidity will never be eliminated, thats not the point, The media obsession with individual acts, like the numb nut in Singapore (not Hong Kong Bluegas, can you imagine our judicial system having a similar cooperative arrangements with the Chinese, a bit of critical thinking would give you the answer) is convenient cover for the (perhaps) endemic and systemic racism in out our establishment. Like our "Royal" Family for example. |
|
|
|
Post by singupgas on Jun 6, 2021 9:54:36 GMT
No place for racism. English football itself is very diverse in my opinion. Look at the England football squad selected for the euros and tell me it is not.
But the whole anti police/defunding of the police is something I cannot support. BLM is the reason why we are seeing innocent police people trying to earn a living keeping the streets safe being attacked in Bristol - sorry that is not acceptable.
When the police become defunded, but then crime increase; killings, robberies, rapes...people will then blame the police for not doing enough. Sorry but you can't support the police being defunded but then moan when there is no resource.
I am all for anti racism, but BLM has become something that is just encouraging aggression rather than sensible discussion.
|
|
|
|
Post by wallywalters on Jun 6, 2021 9:55:39 GMT
People are booing the BLM political movement and not the fact there is racism in football. They wouldn’t boo the kick it out campaign or give racism the red card. There is no place for a message involving an extreme left wing political movement in football. It’s unnecessary. Why can’t they do something with the kick it out campaign before every game which would be wholeheartedly supported by all.
|
|
|
|
Post by francegas on Jun 6, 2021 9:58:39 GMT
There is already a 13 page debate on this on page 3 of General Chat.
|
|
|
|
Post by oldie on Jun 6, 2021 9:59:57 GMT
No place for racism. English football itself is very diverse in my opinion. Look at the England football squad selected for the euros and tell me it is not. But the whole anti police/defunding of the police is something I cannot support. BLM is the reason why we are seeing innocent police people trying to earn a living keeping the streets safe being attacked in Bristol - sorry that is not acceptable. When the police become defunded, but then crime increase; killings, robberies, rapes...people will then blame the police for not doing enough. Sorry but you can't support the police being defunded but then moan when there is no resource. I am all for anti racism, but BLM has become something that is just encouraging aggression rather than sensible discussion. Defunding of our police is a statement conflated from a an issue in the States and will never happen here. Its a complete red herring |
|
|
|
Post by bluegas on Jun 6, 2021 10:06:33 GMT
Which achieved what? Looked more like the usual rabble jumping on a bandwagon. So, If professional athletes, people who have "lead by example" status with young children, choose to highlight the issue of systemic racism by taking the knee, that is a "pious platitude". If people take direct action against a monument to genocide embodied by the life and actions of Colston then they are "the usual rabble". I dont know obviously, but it appears to me that you do not like any act of highlighting racism. As you suggest you don't know me, but it doesn't stop you from jumping to a conclusion. Which is what this whole thread is really about - daring to question the perceived wisdom. |
|
|
|
Post by singupgas on Jun 6, 2021 10:09:17 GMT
No place for racism. English football itself is very diverse in my opinion. Look at the England football squad selected for the euros and tell me it is not. But the whole anti police/defunding of the police is something I cannot support. BLM is the reason why we are seeing innocent police people trying to earn a living keeping the streets safe being attacked in Bristol - sorry that is not acceptable. When the police become defunded, but then crime increase; killings, robberies, rapes...people will then blame the police for not doing enough. Sorry but you can't support the police being defunded but then moan when there is no resource. I am all for anti racism, but BLM has become something that is just encouraging aggression rather than sensible discussion. Defunding of our police is a statement conflated from a an issue in the States and will never happen here. Its a complete red herring Maybe it won't, but I think what people read in the media whether it's an American position or not, it is influencing people behaviour here. |
|
|
|
Post by oldie on Jun 6, 2021 10:11:09 GMT
So, If professional athletes, people who have "lead by example" status with young children, choose to highlight the issue of systemic racism by taking the knee, that is a "pious platitude". If people take direct action against a monument to genocide embodied by the life and actions of Colston then they are "the usual rabble". I dont know obviously, but it appears to me that you do not like any act of highlighting racism. As you suggest you don't know me, but it doesn't stop you from jumping to a conclusion. Which is what this whole thread is really about - daring to question the perceived wisdom. Thats deflection rather than address the point(s) I used in rebuttal |
|
