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Post by socrates on Feb 4, 2021 0:45:46 GMT
Definitely stay. Let him put together his own back room team and gradually his own players and we will see a different outcome on the pitch to the schoolboy football this lot are currently playing. If he is going to bring in his own back room team then why the hell doesn’t he get on and do it though ? He said he was happy with the existing staff but anyone can see we’re lacking pretty much everything but especially defensive organisation and leadership ?
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henry
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Post by henry on Feb 4, 2021 4:08:21 GMT
Definitely stay. Let him put together his own back room team and gradually his own players and we will see a different outcome on the pitch to the schoolboy football this lot are currently playing. If he is going to bring in his own back room team then why the hell doesn’t he get on and do it though ? He said he was happy with the existing staff but anyone can see we’re lacking pretty much everything but especially defensive organisation and leadership ? Who knows what he has been promised and when? How much would it cost project failure to replace the existing team with Tisdsle own? We can all see what is happening on the pitch but it looks as though his hands are tied.. for the time being at least.
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Post by Nortongashead on Feb 4, 2021 6:29:34 GMT
I didn't approve how he got the job. No one else was interviewed and no process applied. I was pro due to his experience but it seems his skills are more long term than putting out the big fire first that BG left. It seemed he fitted into the old boys club upstairs. Personally I would give him Fleetwood on Saturday to get a result of some sort. If he's fired his record supports it worse than BG this season. I want all managers to succeed but I've never seen our players show so little passion and fight as last night. Our DNA should always be that of fight, doggedness and effort that's the Bristol Rovers I know and love. I personally think there's to many fat cats at the top table not under enough scrutiny. What "fat cats" there's only Starnes and Widdrington plus Gorringe, not sure you can put a CEO under scrutiny but given he's in his late 60's I assume he'll be considering retiring soon anyway. Anyway where's this suggestion Tisdale is Starnes mate come from, as they don't appear to have worked together in the past? Topper I haven't suggested Tisdale is Starnes's mate just intimated that he fits in well at the cosy club. Off course you can put a CEO under scrutiny at any age, the leader of the free world is in his late 70's ffs! Do you really think Wael would light a fire under Starnes, Widdrington and Gorringe for not performing in their role? From the outside it appears you get elevated into a higher position regardless of performance as long as your a friendly face or suit the presidential agenda!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2021 8:05:50 GMT
We can’t keep sacking managers...... at some point we have to stick with one and ride it out as constantly chopping and changing managers just creates even more confusion in the players with yet again different methods and coaching, different philosophies on what needs to be done, different personnel and formations etc which will only serve to make us even more inconsistent than we are now! The last time we had 4 managers in quick succession we got relegated..... Also, by constantly sacking managers you have to ‘pay them off’ losing us even more money!
I think we we should stick now regardless and even if we go down. Let Tis shape this team with his players, his pre season and when he’s actually been able to seriously do his training and coaching (with games every Tues and Sat for so long and the need for recovery, I reckon the squad only have 2 days on the grass training which isn’t much to get your ideas bedded in - Game Sat, recovery Sun, Half session Mon and light / tactics and video analysis Mon, light and video and Match Tues, Recovery Weds, Training session Thurs, half session and light training video analysis Fri then back to Sat)
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Post by Topper Gas on Feb 4, 2021 8:20:37 GMT
What "fat cats" there's only Starnes and Widdrington plus Gorringe, not sure you can put a CEO under scrutiny but given he's in his late 60's I assume he'll be considering retiring soon anyway. Anyway where's this suggestion Tisdale is Starnes mate come from, as they don't appear to have worked together in the past? Topper I haven't suggested Tisdale is Starnes's mate just intimated that he fits in well at the cosy club. Off course you can put a CEO under scrutiny at any age, the leader of the free world is in his late 70's ffs! Do you really think Wael would light a fire under Starnes, Widdrington and Gorringe for not performing in their role? From the outside it appears you get elevated into a higher position regardless of performance as long as your a friendly face or suit the presidential agenda! That's no different than most small businesses, if Wael wouldn't fund paying upwards of £500K to take a gamble on the likes of Duff and Flynn, after paying their present clubs compensation and offering them a 2+ years contract, then Tisdale seemed the best choice of out of work managers, nothing really to do with the old boys network. Even now the next best choice seems Hargreaves and Widdrington or Grimsby failure Holloway.
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Post by carlts2020 on Feb 4, 2021 8:40:22 GMT
This is Garners mess the same as it was Wards mess when DC took over. We had to endure relegation and allow DC to rebuild then and maybe we will have to do the same again with Tiss. Agree very much see it this way. And very much why I didn’t have sympathy for Garner and thought it was a grave error letting him assemble a squad in the summer. Difference between the two is he has picked up a squad which is underperforming and Garner had picked up a team that was storming the league. I think we need to know what was the remit when Garner and Tisdale came in. Considering how many signings we made in Jan and Garner only starting on Boxing Day with 7 games in a few weeks did the club already have a plan? Garners statement after his sacking alluded to that his remit was to change the style and lower the age of the squad. If he did what he was asked and results worsened (which is obviously a by product) can we blame him? Also with Tisdale. If the club got him in promising signings in Jan and his remit was mid table / avoid relegation / play off then we need to know. It’s hard to judge unless the board make it clear what was required.
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Post by justin blue on Feb 4, 2021 11:46:48 GMT
This is Garners mess the same as it was Wards mess when DC took over. We had to endure relegation and allow DC to rebuild then and maybe we will have to do the same again with Tiss. Thats a fair point. However, if DC took over in December and took us down, he'd have been fired without doubt. The only reason he wasn't was because he was in charge for 8 games, not that that didn't stop half the fan base wanting him out anyway. You are right and I was one of many baying for his dismissal, but we all learnt from that experience so Garner was given the same chance and failed. I honestly don't think another manager would do any better with the playing staff even if there was someone daft enough to put their reputation on the line to even try.
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Post by Gassy on Feb 4, 2021 11:56:50 GMT
Thats a fair point. However, if DC took over in December and took us down, he'd have been fired without doubt. The only reason he wasn't was because he was in charge for 8 games, not that that didn't stop half the fan base wanting him out anyway. You are right and I was one of many baying for his dismissal, but we all learnt from that experience so Garner was given the same chance and failed. I honestly don't think another manager would do any better with the playing staff even if there was someone daft enough to put their reputation on the line to even try. Fair enough, I do think someone could. Whether we’d employ them is a different manner. In L1 Tisdale has had 1 good season, the rest have been sackings, relegations and the dizzying height of 15th. Garner has only known failure. I strongly believe a GC type manager would sort this lot out. Someone with experience of success in this division, doesn’t have to be promotions - but enough experience to show that they know what they need to do. Let’s see, Tisdale says back to basics. I don’t think he’s the type of manager to be able to go back to basics, but I’d love to be proven wrong. I think he should go now, but I can see why Wael hasn’t yet.. we have to pick up a very minimum of 3 points in the next 3 games, if not then there really is no chance of improvement.
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Post by CheshireGas on Feb 4, 2021 12:15:04 GMT
I seem to be in a minority in giving him 3 games. The reason I went for that is because - if he can't change the attitude of the players he is sticking on the pitch in 3 games he isn't going to do it in 30 games and he won't be able to change or bring in personnel until the end of the season - he will be stuck with a lot of these players next season, if he can't change them now, how can he do that next year - if the players attitude is negative then he has to bring in other players from the squad who want to play and have a different attitude, he has 43 to pick from - even if the players introduced aren't the best, dropping people like Ehmer or Grant etc will get them focussed. After all, if we go down, when their contracts end other clubs aren't going to rush to sign them, there is only out of the league to go.... - if, as some say, these players don't want to play for PT, then we don't want another Penney situation arising. We would know in 3 games if that is the case. - in the next 3 games we should be able to at least draw them or win 1, if he can't motivate them and get a result then there is nowhere else to go. Unless of course you are happy to accept relegation as a cert!
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Post by yetigas on Feb 4, 2021 14:20:39 GMT
As I see it there are three elements in winning football matches: 1. The individual ability of players 2. The tactical system the players are asked to play in by the manager/coach 3. The motivation/attitude of the players on the pitch.
On the first point, I think the ability of the current players individually, and collectively, is good enough for a mid-table finish (which is what I said at the start of the season). But PT has to be ruthless is dropping out-of-form players (eg Ehmer) when there are better players (Baldwin) on the bench. On the second point, I am not convinced that the system is well-enough developed. By that I mean individuals understanding their role and playing to it. This might take longer to get right but on current evidence it needs to significantly improve. On the third point and perhaps the most crucial - this is NOT down to the players alone. The manager and coaches are also responsible for motivating the players. That's why I would reject the argument that relegation to the conference was John Wards doing. DC had 8 games and failed. Similarly, I don't buy the argument that it will be BG's fault if we go down. I assume that PT got the job because he convinced the powers that be that he could work with the current players and stay up. If not, he shouldn't have been given it. So sorry, if we end up relegated then PT will bear responsibility.
Having said all that, I would stick with PT at least for this season and next (irrespective of the division we are playing in). I believe he can do well with us if he is given the backing and support of board and fans. Continual sacking of managers rarely helps as it takes time for a manager's philosophy to take root.
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Post by phillistine on Feb 4, 2021 15:40:54 GMT
The only ones to judge Tisdale are the ones who employed him and they know how he is handling this situation day to day and whether he has lost the changing room or not.
The reality is that despite everything that has been said this is not just about winning football matches but is about winning Leagues, getting promoted and becoming sustainable - the bigger picture as well as the short term.
Before Tisdale signed up - the Board commented that the new manager would have to work with the existing backroom staff and inside a set structure. He has taken time to look at things and admitted after the recent transfer window that the club would need to review why we didnt make the signings. He is unlikely to criticise his bosses in public even if he believes them to be at fault.
He has never once criticised Ben Garner or any of his signings but has tried to work with them. The fact that he brought Abs Ogogo back shows the difference in mindset between the 2 managers.
There are no doubt some players who came to us because of the BG dream and maybe they feel let down and de-motivated.
The reality is that he now needs to be ruthless and pick a team of character, of fighters rather than skill. It would be wrong to let Tisdale go now as i feel that we are going to find out what he is made of. Only the owners will truly understand what is going on behind the scene and we need to rely on them making the right decisions.
I am not saying that Tis is the right man as i simply dont know enough about what is going on behind the scenes.
We may feel crap because of what we are seeing but we didn't plough £18 million into the team for absolutely no reward. I am sure that the Owner will do what needs to be done to turn this around
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Post by Antonio Fargas on Feb 5, 2021 9:11:56 GMT
Istm, PT has just come in, has a shocker of a Window, which is not his fault, but gets on with it without whining, and seems to get disliked for it. GC started whining about a Window that hadn't even happened, for self-serving reasons, and people take it as gospel.
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Post by Topper Gas on Feb 5, 2021 9:51:31 GMT
Istm, PT has just come in, has a shocker of a Window, which is not his fault, but gets on with it without whining, and seems to get disliked for it. GC started whining about a Window that hadn't even happened, for self-serving reasons, and people take it as gospel. I guess whoever we have in charge can't please everyone unless he's winning games, if he isn't the there'll always be the same set of fans finding something to moan about, G365 for one has been critical of at least the last 3 managers,
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2021 10:35:49 GMT
Istm, PT has just come in, has a shocker of a Window, which is not his fault, but gets on with it without whining, and seems to get disliked for it. GC started whining about a Window that hadn't even happened, for self-serving reasons, and people take it as gospel. How do we know the window wasn’t his fault?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2021 10:46:02 GMT
Istm, PT has just come in, has a shocker of a Window, which is not his fault, but gets on with it without whining, and seems to get disliked for it. GC started whining about a Window that hadn't even happened, for self-serving reasons, and people take it as gospel. I don’t think he got it in him to do any whining especially when he’s a yes man.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2021 10:47:24 GMT
Istm, PT has just come in, has a shocker of a Window, which is not his fault, but gets on with it without whining, and seems to get disliked for it. GC started whining about a Window that hadn't even happened, for self-serving reasons, and people take it as gospel. How do we know the window wasn’t his fault? Because he couldn’t open the dam thing 😂
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Post by Antonio Fargas on Feb 5, 2021 10:48:12 GMT
Istm, PT has just come in, has a shocker of a Window, which is not his fault, but gets on with it without whining, and seems to get disliked for it. GC started whining about a Window that hadn't even happened, for self-serving reasons, and people take it as gospel. How do we know the window wasn’t his fault? We don't (which is why I put 'istm' in my post). It seems to me he would have wanted to bring in as decent a striker as possible, and the fact that we didn't was probably down to forces not under his control. I mean, we could have lined up a decent striker who could do the job, but PT decided that, after all, he didn't want one, or didn't rate him. But that doesn't really feel like a realistic interpretation. Are you able to imagine a realistic series of events where the poor window was down to PT?
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Post by warehamgas on Feb 5, 2021 10:51:57 GMT
Listen to his pre-Fleetwood interview on other thread. It appeared they tried to get what he wanted but couldn’t. UTG!
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Post by playtowin on Feb 5, 2021 15:28:28 GMT
The problem any manager has currently is the lack of time training and coaching the players. The tues/wed and saturday games leave on small windows.
I suggest sticking to a very simple formula ,dont change formations unless you have to. Give the players chance to learn and do the jobs the manager requires.
Repetition of routines makes them second nature ,everyone knows what to do and when. Its how small squads of limited ability achieve results beter yhan they should.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2021 15:42:49 GMT
Istm, PT has just come in, has a shocker of a Window, which is not his fault, but gets on with it without whining, and seems to get disliked for it. GC started whining about a Window that hadn't even happened, for self-serving reasons, and people take it as gospel. I guess whoever we have in charge can't please everyone unless he's winning games, if he isn't the there'll always be the same set of fans finding something to moan about, G365 for one has been critical of at least the last 3 managers, You’re being very selective there topper- how about you tell me someone who hasn’t been critical of the last 3 managers? There won’t be many. People have even criticised DC- there are no sacred cows in this game. At least I can admit when I get it wrong and I got it wrong with Coughlan, I was bang on the money with Garner and Tisdale though.
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