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Post by I Voted For Kodos on Mar 26, 2021 14:32:32 GMT
I think an interesting tactical side to our failures this season has been the lack of a settled formation and specifically a settled defence with both a back 3 and a back 4 being tried with little success. In general, there has been little difference in results between the two systems: | Defence | Games | Points | PpG | | 3 at the back | 25 | 24 | 0.96 | | 4 at the back | 11 | 10 | 0.91 |
However, I think the bigger issue is how often we have switched between the formations (especially in this shortened season with less time between games to prep). We have changed the defensive formation from the previous league game 11 times this season. This is in just 36 games, so effectively we're changing the shape almost every third game and that isn't counting all the times we have switched mid-match like Tuesday. This has meant that we just don't have any understanding building up between players. Plymouth exploited this perfectly last weekend, finding gaps on our right. Below is the build-up to their second goal and Williams isn't sure whether to close the man with the ball (15) or to track the winger (22) and ends up doing neither. Kilgour is pointing (and presumably shouting) to go with the runner but by the time that happens it is too late and 22 has put in a first time cross that they score from. I'm only singling Williams out as it led to a goal, but I've seen the same happen in multiple games this season where a player has to pause and think or be told where to run/cover rather than moving on instinct. This was perhaps the worst possible season to have three separate managers trying a variety of different formations with a young team and it is costing us. Obviously, this is just one of our problems this season, but I think we would give ourselves the best chance of staying up by playing the same defensive shape for the next nine games. I reckon that whether that is a 3 or a 4 is less important than a consistent shape. |
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Post by Gassy on Mar 26, 2021 14:36:14 GMT
Would be interested to see who the games were against for each and who we had available up front for those games as I think it’s more complex than a simple 3 or 4 at the back as the stats suggest.
Personally I think we’ve played better defensively with 4 at the back.
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Post by goodnightirene1883 on Mar 26, 2021 14:48:16 GMT
Adding to your post mate:
Formations and times used this season:
3-4-1-2 x7
3-5-2 x7
3-4-2-1 x6
4-3-1-2 x6
4-3-3 x4
3-5-1-1 x3
3-4-3 x 2
4-2-3-1 x2
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Post by kampucheagas on Mar 26, 2021 15:03:04 GMT
Can we not try 0 at the back?
They are bloody useless
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Post by Dirt Dogg on Mar 26, 2021 15:08:04 GMT
Can we not try 0 at the back? They are bloody useless We’ve been doing that all season long haven’t we?! |
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Post by Raj Gas on Mar 26, 2021 15:27:47 GMT
It's also how many times all 3 managers have consistently changed this formation at the back during games. We are a League 1 club with players low on confidence, poor fitness and injury levels.
It is all rather predictable we don't win that often.
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Post by lastminutewinner on Mar 26, 2021 17:12:15 GMT
Can we not try 0 at the back? They are bloody useless We’ve been doing that all season long haven’t we?! We normally go with zonal marking. Unfortunately we mark zones with no opposition players in them.... |
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Post by rosssgb on Mar 26, 2021 17:21:42 GMT
442, 4231 or 433 for me.
If we stick with 5 at the back we’ll be down. We haven’t got 2 centre backs that are good enough let alone 3.
Often if you overcomplicate it at lower level you come unstuck. Most of these players will have never played 3/5 at the back in their career before. It’s something you need to coach into them throughout a preseason, perhaps even over two seasons (which obviously Garner miserably failed at).
The issue which Tisdale and now Barton are finding is we have recruited very specifically for a 5 at the back formation - something which hasn’t worked and will quite likely see us bottom of the league once everyone has played their games in hand.
JB is stuck between a rock and a hard place. We didn’t add any wingers in January which is crazy in my view.
If it was me I’d push Leahy up to the wing and potentially stick Hare on the other (Rodman if he’s fit). Westbrooke in behind Ayunga and two defensive midfielders to protect our awful back line. Could even start Hanlan on the right if we want to be more attacking.
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Post by wilmslowgas on Mar 26, 2021 18:07:09 GMT
Regardless of whether we have 3, 4 or 5 at the back it makes little difference. Any formation requires semi competent centre backs and we haven't got any. All of them are mistake ridden and their confidence in themselves and colleagues must be minimal.
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Post by CrispPusher on Mar 26, 2021 18:29:07 GMT
A big contributing factor to the chopping and changing is Leahy is a liability defensively, which has resulted in whoever else has been defending his side often looking a clown, but he has been an ever present this season due to his attacking output. I would've liked to have seen somebody playing left back behind Leahy in a more advanced position, but we are way past that point now so it doesn't matter.
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Post by lpgas1 on Mar 26, 2021 19:20:21 GMT
I would have 4-4-2. Here's why. On the left, Leahy. In front of him Tutonda. On the right Willams / Little in front of him Josh Hare. So both sides of the pitch we have players that can get forward and cross the ball, at the same time being able to tighten up on the wings. CH 's Well my first choice is on loan at Barrow, so I would go with Kilgour and Baldwin. The remaining 2 midfielders are both injured, so in comes Upson and Grant. Up front, well the usual 2 Hanlon and Ayunga, of if fit Rodders playing behind Ayunga. Now thats what I call different, and cannot be any worse than what we have witnessed so far  |
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Post by Jomo on Mar 26, 2021 19:36:33 GMT
Adding to your post mate: Formations and times used this season: 3-4-1-2 x7 3-5-2 x7 3-4-2-1 x6 4-3-1-2 x6 4-3-3 x4 3-5-1-1 x3 3-4-3 x 2 4-2-3-1 x2 Wow, that really goes to show what a shambles we've been. I've heard of managers not knowing the best 11 players. We're close to not knowing our best 11 formations! |
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Post by Topper Gas on Mar 26, 2021 19:40:02 GMT
Williams or Little as right wingers, why not go the whole hog and put Ehmer upfront alongside Ayunga, given that JB clearly doesn't rate him.as a CB?
Not sure why JB doesn't try Leahy as LCB and then play Tutonda as LWB.
As far as the poster saying our players can't cope with playing 5 at the back, they do actually seem to during open play as most goals conceded come from dead ball situations, when it doesn't really matter if we're playing 3 or 4 at the back.
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Post by chilly1883 on Mar 26, 2021 20:43:05 GMT
We could put 10 at the back, and still concede! We’re weak as water
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2021 21:31:59 GMT
I would have 4-4-2. Here's why. On the left, Leahy. In front of him Tutonda. On the right Willams / Little in front of him Josh Hare. So both sides of the pitch we have players that can get forward and cross the ball, at the same time being able to tighten up on the wings. CH 's Well my first choice is on loan at Barrow, so I would go with Kilgour and Baldwin. The remaining 2 midfielders are both injured, so in comes Upson and Grant. Up front, well the usual 2 Hanlon and Ayunga, of if fit Rodders playing behind Ayunga. Now thats what I call different, and cannot be any worse than what we have witnessed so far 6 defenders and 2 holding midfielders? I presume you are going for damage limitation and not survival? |
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Post by ChiefStateGAS on Mar 26, 2021 22:04:42 GMT
Times like this I miss good old 442. Everyone works in pairs, everyone should know the system.
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Post by Rod1883 on Mar 26, 2021 22:11:45 GMT
3,4,5,6 at the back - that's the number of goals we are likely to concede tomorrow.
My best mate is a Sunderland supporter - I was round his place this morning helping him take a rotten tree down in his garden - he was almost embarrassed to talk about tomorrow's game, knowing they'll absolutely run riot.
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