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Post by TugPhase on Apr 19, 2021 11:55:59 GMT
Don't want to be 'that guy', but... Football is so broken anyway. Money drives it already. 17/20 PL teams are owned by billionaires. That's not a coincidence. There are Championship teams chucking around obscene amounts of money. I think let the six go and have their fun and then take the opportunity to reset the rest of English football. Introduce severe FFP that works. Encourage fan ownership. Now I know none of this is straightforward. Your Evertons etc. who are spending vast money to try and get into the elite would be screwed. But this is already happening. Teams are disappearing in L1&2. It's all on course to break anyway. So let the six go and let's hope this is an opportunity to fix what is left. The six want to stay in the PL and English Football, they just want to say a big f**k you to all the other sides with European aspirations by making it an exclusive members club. This is why we need the 50+1 ownership system in England so fans get overall voting rights. No fans in their right minds would ever endorse this sort of thing it’s just so out of touch with how we run and govern sports in Europe. I don’t think kicking them out of English football is necessarily the answer as smaller clubs would end up feeling the financial brunt of such a decision just as much as the bigger clubs. Would be all for fines and points deductions. I can't see how they would do both. They would just end up playing reserves in the PL and it would become a complete farce. Regarding financial hit for our level; there would undoubtedly be a period of instability but eventually I think it will be better for it. Players wages and transfer fees would decrease; so the hit on income (not sure how big this would be for us - how much of Premier League TV money filters down?) would be more than offset. It would become far more sustainable. Players would lose out, but remember they are being overpaid now (ahem, Kyle Bennett) and they would still be paid well. Also the rules would prevent the likes of Salford buying their way up the divisions - the irony of Neville talking about fair competition. Like I said, English football is already broken and needs a chance to reset and this could be just the opportunity. The way things are going more and more clubs are likely to disappear. Where would we be if we didn't have a wealthy owner to bail us out... Completely agree on ownership. Not saying the German model is perfect, but it's closer than we are.
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Post by amgas on Apr 19, 2021 12:07:32 GMT
I think it is quite interesting to see various chairman and owners of Premier League clubs outside of the breakaway teams crying and moaning about how unfair it is, but they did not really care when their own actions had very negative effects further down the pyramid. I am afraid I am not going to cry over any of them.
Lets be honest the governing bodies have allowed the wealth to get concentrated at the top, and the people that run the top teams are not really fans, just business men. They should not be surprised at all.
Not sure it is a popular opinion but I don't really care if the "big 6" take their ball and clear off. The worst scenario is if the people at the top give in to their demands to keep them.
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Post by lympstonegas on Apr 19, 2021 12:14:55 GMT
Spurs have now sacked Mourinho - no mercy
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Post by axegas on Apr 19, 2021 12:24:22 GMT
The six want to stay in the PL and English Football, they just want to say a big f**k you to all the other sides with European aspirations by making it an exclusive members club. This is why we need the 50+1 ownership system in England so fans get overall voting rights. No fans in their right minds would ever endorse this sort of thing it’s just so out of touch with how we run and govern sports in Europe. I don’t think kicking them out of English football is necessarily the answer as smaller clubs would end up feeling the financial brunt of such a decision just as much as the bigger clubs. Would be all for fines and points deductions. I can't see how they would do both. They would just end up playing reserves in the PL and it would become a complete farce. Regarding financial hit for our level; there would undoubtedly be a period of instability but eventually I think it will be better for it. Players wages and transfer fees would decrease; so the hit on income (not sure how big this would be for us - how much of Premier League TV money filters down?) would be more than offset. It would become far more sustainable. Players would lose out, but remember they are being overpaid now (ahem, Kyle Bennett) and they would still be paid well. Also the rules would prevent the likes of Salford buying their way up the divisions - the irony of Neville talking about fair competition. Like I said, English football is already broken and needs a chance to reset and this could be just the opportunity. The way things are going more and more clubs are likely to disappear. Where would we be if we didn't have a wealthy owner to bail us out... Completely agree on ownership. Not saying the German model is perfect, but it's closer than we are. Part of the reason they want to go it alone is that they want to create their own laws, that means no financial fair play, no squad cap limits. That’s one of the most dangerous aspects of this move. I don’t think it would have too much of a financial hit on us, because most of the TV money we make is through the EFL rights deal and if anything interest and the value in that package might increase with the PL in a diluted form. The German ownership method has its faults, a good example is 1860 Munich where the fans and owners got in a fierce dispute with one another, culminating in their Jordanian owner refusing to pay the clubs registration to enter the third tier. However, when it comes to the bigger issues concerning governance of the game and structure of leagues/cups, having power be in the hands of the fans can only be a good thing.
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Post by Charlton Hayes Gas on Apr 19, 2021 12:26:14 GMT
What ever you do, don't mention the war! I mentioned it once but think I got away with it !! I think o’Riley was in charge of our recruitment last summer.
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Post by warehamgas on Apr 19, 2021 12:27:18 GMT
This all makes those people saying that Premier League B Teams would never happen because it's all talk just like the European Super League look less convincing now ... Perhaps LJG and it’s a good point. This move is all part of a long term strategy to get a bigger share of the pot, to become richer. But it could be a move to show intent and the FA and PL will roll over and come to some agreement which could all make PL B teams in the EFL a few years closer. Signing up to a breakaway league with sanctions against players happened in the 50s with players going to Columbia, then outside FIFA. Careers ended, I can’t see players now putting up with that. The next week could be interesting with fans, players and wider public make their feelings known. If the top players have no World Cup to show their talents I’m not sure the top players in their late 20s/ early 30s will want a stand off for even a year. They want to play in international competitions. Of course then the question would be where would these top players go and I’ve no answer to that at the moment. UTG!
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Post by TugPhase on Apr 19, 2021 12:32:15 GMT
Part of the reason they want to go it alone is that they want to create their own laws, that means no financial fair play, no squad cap limits. That’s one of the most dangerous aspects of this move. That dangerous lack of FFP would only apply to the Super League though. The FA/ PL/ Football League would still be able to set sustainable FFP for everyone that remains. There would be gulf between the Super League and the rest, but I don't see the issue in that. Players either make the cut in the Super League or don't and play in the PL/ Football League. That's no different from now really with young PL players either making the grade and getting PL wages or not and having to drop to L1 wages.
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Post by seanclevedongas on Apr 19, 2021 12:38:19 GMT
Liverpool fans, have asked for all their banners to be removed from The Kop
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Post by theduke on Apr 19, 2021 12:40:04 GMT
People are kidding themselves if they think the Premier League will ban them and things just carry on normally. For one, the Premier League is nowhere near as valuable without those six sides. All the television networks will want huge reimbursements on what they’ve paid the Premier League if United, Liverpool, etc aren’t in their schedules and new tv contracts will be up to 90% less valuable. Broadcasters in the US and Far East are not going to be shell out much to show a Everton V Crystal Palace. This ploy has huge trickle down implications for the other clubs and the players they can attract, plus the contracts they can afford. The remaining Premier League would essentially become the Championship in an instant. The absence of the top six domestically would completely devastate the English game. That’s how it is NOW. But that will change if those clubs and anyone involved with them find that they exist only in a wilderness with no way back. There is so much opposition and outrage to this idea, even at government level here and elsewhere that the clubs could literally be starved out of existence. The whole thing relies on getting a huge broadcast deal and then selling subscriptions to fans. The supporters organisations at all 6 English clubs involved are furiously opposed to this, that might influence the level of take up to any broadcaster selling subscriptions. The ultimate sanction though is that national governments could ban the broadcasting of the games so anyone watching would be doing so illegally. That would cut numbers right back too. I feel quite optimistic that this will backfire spectacularly on the clubs involved. It could and should invoke the change that the game needs anyway to bring the power back from a few ridiculously wealthy owners who have no respect for the good of the game or even the long standing fans of the clubs they own. Starved out of existence? Some of these clubs have hundreds of millions of loyal followers all across the globe. Whether they get kicked out of the Premier League or not, they clearly aren’t going to go away. Where they will go is their own league which will be viewed on something like Amazon, Netflix or even start their own streaming platform and they’ll be absolutely minted. I’m not in favour of this due to sporting integrity but let’s not kid ourselves that the game itself, at the highest levels, wasn’t already heading in this direction and has been since the formation of the Premier League and the revamped Champions League. It was inevitable.
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Post by lpgas1 on Apr 19, 2021 12:40:24 GMT
Let them go, restructure the leagues, the supporters left behind will eventually find other clubs to support. If they want to come back, they have to begin in Conference North / South. No doubt Sky is going to be involved, lets stop paying for it.
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Post by lpgas1 on Apr 19, 2021 12:43:55 GMT
One thing that is laughable. Liverpool away to Juventus, they return on Thursday and the players have to self isolate for a week.
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Post by peterparker on Apr 19, 2021 12:45:31 GMT
everything is in flux, but there are some weird statements about
The clubs have said they have taken legal advice and say, you can't stop us.
I don't think anyone is saying they can stop them doing it, only that if they do, they can't be expected to participate in the existing structures as well
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Post by theduke on Apr 19, 2021 12:46:10 GMT
I can't see how they would do both. They would just end up playing reserves in the PL and it would become a complete farce. Regarding financial hit for our level; there would undoubtedly be a period of instability but eventually I think it will be better for it. Players wages and transfer fees would decrease; so the hit on income (not sure how big this would be for us - how much of Premier League TV money filters down?) would be more than offset. It would become far more sustainable. Players would lose out, but remember they are being overpaid now (ahem, Kyle Bennett) and they would still be paid well. Also the rules would prevent the likes of Salford buying their way up the divisions - the irony of Neville talking about fair competition. Like I said, English football is already broken and needs a chance to reset and this could be just the opportunity. The way things are going more and more clubs are likely to disappear. Where would we be if we didn't have a wealthy owner to bail us out... Completely agree on ownership. Not saying the German model is perfect, but it's closer than we are. Part of the reason they want to go it alone is that they want to create their own laws, that means no financial fair play, no squad cap limits. That’s one of the most dangerous aspects of this move. I don’t think it would have too much of a financial hit on us, because most of the TV money we make is through the EFL rights deal and if anything interest and the value in that package might increase with the PL in a diluted form. The German ownership method has its faults, a good example is 1860 Munich where the fans and owners got in a fierce dispute with one another, culminating in their Jordanian owner refusing to pay the clubs registration to enter the third tier. However, when it comes to the bigger issues concerning governance of the game and structure of leagues/cups, having power be in the hands of the fans can only be a good thing. Just to pull you on one point; on the contrary this ESL will have FFP limits. UEFAs toothlessness has been a major bone of contention for a lot of these clubs, so that’s another reason why they want their own control. I’d imagine some of their members have no interest in being $1BN in debt trying to compete with Arab state owned clubs.
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Post by axegas on Apr 19, 2021 13:13:26 GMT
Part of the reason they want to go it alone is that they want to create their own laws, that means no financial fair play, no squad cap limits. That’s one of the most dangerous aspects of this move. I don’t think it would have too much of a financial hit on us, because most of the TV money we make is through the EFL rights deal and if anything interest and the value in that package might increase with the PL in a diluted form. The German ownership method has its faults, a good example is 1860 Munich where the fans and owners got in a fierce dispute with one another, culminating in their Jordanian owner refusing to pay the clubs registration to enter the third tier. However, when it comes to the bigger issues concerning governance of the game and structure of leagues/cups, having power be in the hands of the fans can only be a good thing. Just to pull you on one point; on the contrary this ESL will have FFP limits. UEFAs toothlessness has been a major bone of contention for a lot of these clubs, so that’s another reason why they want their own control. I’d imagine some of their members have no interest in being $1BN in debt trying to compete with Arab state owned clubs. Well it’s outside the jurisdiction of UEFA who make up the FFP rules as we know them. The ESL clubs may want to implement their own variation of such laws, but considering that Man City have been fighting a legal case against UEFA over FFP and have taken it all the way to the CAS, they’ll either be radically different if they are there at all.
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Post by theduke on Apr 19, 2021 14:35:41 GMT
Just to pull you on one point; on the contrary this ESL will have FFP limits. UEFAs toothlessness has been a major bone of contention for a lot of these clubs, so that’s another reason why they want their own control. I’d imagine some of their members have no interest in being $1BN in debt trying to compete with Arab state owned clubs. Well it’s outside the jurisdiction of UEFA who make up the FFP rules as we know them. The ESL clubs may want to implement their own variation of such laws, but considering that Man City have been fighting a legal case against UEFA over FFP and have taken it all the way to the CAS, they’ll either be radically different if they are there at all. FFP in this new league will supposedly be 55% of revenues on wages as a maximum. That's a condition for being in the league and the clubs themselves are the power brokers, not a third party like UEFA. City won't have any choice but to fall in and, seeing as they've already signed up, I'm sure they're happy with the conditions. Everybody has different opinions about FFP, but for me UEFA have been a shambles when trying to enforce their own rules on this. The elite clubs have taken matters into their own hands because the governing organization have shown themselves to be toothless.
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Post by peterparker on Apr 19, 2021 14:41:02 GMT
Well it’s outside the jurisdiction of UEFA who make up the FFP rules as we know them. The ESL clubs may want to implement their own variation of such laws, but considering that Man City have been fighting a legal case against UEFA over FFP and have taken it all the way to the CAS, they’ll either be radically different if they are there at all. FFP in this new league will supposedly be 55% of revenues on wages as a maximum. That's a condition for being in the league and the clubs themselves are the power brokers, not a third party like UEFA. City won't have any choice but to fall in and, seeing as they've already signed up, I'm sure they're happy with the conditions. Everybody has different opinions about FFP, but for me UEFA have been a shambles when trying to enforce their own rules on this. The elite clubs have taken matters into their own hands because the governing organization have shown themselves to be toothless. of course the 12 (or 15) founders will make up all the rules, so they wouldn't be worth the paper they are written on
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Post by Feeling The Blues on Apr 19, 2021 15:25:18 GMT
That’s how it is NOW. But that will change if those clubs and anyone involved with them find that they exist only in a wilderness with no way back. There is so much opposition and outrage to this idea, even at government level here and elsewhere that the clubs could literally be starved out of existence. The whole thing relies on getting a huge broadcast deal and then selling subscriptions to fans. The supporters organisations at all 6 English clubs involved are furiously opposed to this, that might influence the level of take up to any broadcaster selling subscriptions. The ultimate sanction though is that national governments could ban the broadcasting of the games so anyone watching would be doing so illegally. That would cut numbers right back too. I feel quite optimistic that this will backfire spectacularly on the clubs involved. It could and should invoke the change that the game needs anyway to bring the power back from a few ridiculously wealthy owners who have no respect for the good of the game or even the long standing fans of the clubs they own. Starved out of existence? Some of these clubs have hundreds of millions of loyal followers all across the globe. Whether they get kicked out of the Premier League or not, they clearly aren’t going to go away. Where they will go is their own league which will be viewed on something like Amazon, Netflix or even start their own streaming platform and they’ll be absolutely minted. I’m not in favour of this due to sporting integrity but let’s not kid ourselves that the game itself, at the highest levels, wasn’t already heading in this direction and has been since the formation of the Premier League and the revamped Champions League. It was inevitable. There is sufficient strength of opposition at the very highest levels to ensure that these parasites will fail spectacularly. That includes the possible banning of broadcasting in most European countries. Sure that leaves America and the Far East, maybe the clubs would have to relocate there too. Either way the identity of the clubs that these millions of fickle glory hunters support will be lost, the old clubs will be gone.
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Post by Feeling The Blues on Apr 19, 2021 16:22:01 GMT
That’s how it is NOW. But that will change if those clubs and anyone involved with them find that they exist only in a wilderness with no way back. There is so much opposition and outrage to this idea, even at government level here and elsewhere that the clubs could literally be starved out of existence. The whole thing relies on getting a huge broadcast deal and then selling subscriptions to fans. The supporters organisations at all 6 English clubs involved are furiously opposed to this, that might influence the level of take up to any broadcaster selling subscriptions. The ultimate sanction though is that national governments could ban the broadcasting of the games so anyone watching would be doing so illegally. That would cut numbers right back too. I feel quite optimistic that this will backfire spectacularly on the clubs involved. It could and should invoke the change that the game needs anyway to bring the power back from a few ridiculously wealthy owners who have no respect for the good of the game or even the long standing fans of the clubs they own. Starved out of existence? Some of these clubs have hundreds of millions of loyal followers all across the globe. Whether they get kicked out of the Premier League or not, they clearly aren’t going to go away. Where they will go is their own league which will be viewed on something like Amazon, Netflix or even start their own streaming platform and they’ll be absolutely minted. I’m not in favour of this due to sporting integrity but let’s not kid ourselves that the game itself, at the highest levels, wasn’t already heading in this direction and has been since the formation of the Premier League and the revamped Champions League. It was inevitable. And further to my reply here is a very encouraging thread on Twitter that shows strength of government opposition and what they will do if the parasites go ahead.
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Post by rememberhalifax on Apr 19, 2021 17:18:18 GMT
On reflection let em go and good riddance! so that leaves 14 prem teams , so no relegation this year and promote 4 teams instead of 3, no relegation from championship promote 4 instead of 3, NO RELEGATION FROM LEAGUE 1 and promote 4, no relegation from 2 and promote 4. Seems excellent plan to me ,can't imagine why!!
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Post by oldie on Apr 19, 2021 17:21:17 GMT
On reflection let em go and good riddance! so that leaves 14 prem teams , so no relegation this year and promote 4 teams instead of 3, no relegation from championship promote 4 instead of 3, NO RELEGATION FROM LEAGUE 1 and promote 4, no relegation from 2 and promote 4. Seems excellent plan to me ,can't imagine why!! With you. f**k them....just f**k off and play tiddly winks with each other. Most of us dont give a sh**.
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