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Post by stuart1974 on Apr 22, 2021 7:26:03 GMT
There seems to be more that want Barton to be our manager including me than not, just get used to it and get behind Bristol Rovers for god sake. Thing is, that might be difficult until after the court case and FA Investigation. Who is going to reset, the great reset should there be a bad outcome for Joseph He didnt keep us up, and now we have to put our faith in a bloke who might not be here in a couple of months. Like it or not, that is a possibility, that so many continue to ignore We need to get past his trial in June before we can truly move on as a club That was my main reason for not wanting him here back at the start, his history was one thing and suitability as manager another, but the court case was always going to become the focus at some point. What we need to avoid is more upheaval in the manager situation, hopefully he will be okay and can concentrate on us in the summer.
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Post by gasandelectricity on Apr 22, 2021 7:37:15 GMT
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Post by oldie on Apr 22, 2021 8:01:25 GMT
I hope Swissgas doesnt mind me copying his post from the other place on to here... "It is hard not to come to the conclusion that Barton is all bluster with no substance. One example is his apparent enlistment of "leadership expert" Lt Colonel Chris Gibson whom he said was going to help restructure Rovers. On a quick google search I couldn't find anything connecting Chris Gibson to Fleetwood Town let alone transforming them but what I did find was that he is actually a motivational speaker who can be hired by the hour. So what we have here is Barton convincing many impressionable Gasheads that he is bringing in his own version of McKinsey & Company to restructure the entire Rovers organisation when in fact it is someone any company could engage to come in and spark up a staff meeting. Why do we keep falling for it ?" Precisely put Swiss. Loads on here are having their tummies tickled. No obvious Fleetwood connection and he is clearly a motivational speaker. What I would say though is Barton's quote from the Post was "He’s massive in terms of infrastructure and helping us understand how departments work with each other, and he was a key influencer of us being successful at Fleetwood and leaving Fleetwood in a much better place than when we found it, not only on the pitch, but off it in the business aspect." Looking at Gibson's biography that does fit to a degree in that he would have been involved in the structure and running of a major operation; "Chris was given the task of leading on the development and delivery of a training model for military and NHS volunteers to combat the Ebola Virus Disease in West Africa. Chris was tasked to deploy over 1200 personnel appropriately trained and equipped for the rigor of delivering care in a West African jungle. For his incredible service to his country, Chris was appointed an MBE. Furthermore, Chris was also awarded The Health Service Journal Special Recognition Award for his innovative solutions to healthcare, and was identified as International Innovator of the Year 2017-18 by Ideas UK." This jumps out "Chris was given the task of leading on the development and delivery of a training model for military and NHS volunteers to combat the Ebola Virus Disease in West Africa" Great stuff. Training already qualified professionals (in their field) to enable them to deliver in a stressful and very unfamiliar culture and terrain. Totally unconvinced this works for young men, most of whom did even get to sixth form education, in a business which turns over less than £10M a year (shoot me down, I didnt check) Its a small business, imagine running a small chain of shops with equivalent turnover, would you spend money on this guy? Is the off field structure so complicated that you need someone with that degree of logistics knowledge and experience to advise you? Whats he going to do after lunch? 😂 No, this smacks of Barton being dazzled by the light, just like that book he read (allegedly) on psychology. Half wit.
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Post by GasAttacK on Apr 22, 2021 8:14:32 GMT
He's not far off to be fair: Joe Day - Most of his career in L2. JVS - Never played in England. Josh Grant - Only played in L2. Josh Hare - Sign from non league. David Tutonda - Sign from non league Cian Harries - Practically no first team experience prior to signing. Ali Koiki - Only played L2. Ben Liddle - No first team experience. Zain Westbooke - Nearly 24 when we signed him and only 25 league starts. Sam Nicholson - Never played in England. Cam Hargreaves - Sign from non league. Josh Barrett - No first team experience. James Daly - No first team experince. Jonha Ayunga - Signed from non league. Compare it to DC's squads in League 1. How many loan keepers with little or no league experience. Lee Brown(No league 1 experience) Tom Lockyer(No League 1 experience) Jonathan Burn(Little League experience) James Clarke(No league experience) Mark Mchrystal(Little league experience) Joe Partington(Little League 1 experience) Daniel Leadbitter(No League 1 experience) Tyler Little(No League experience) Lee Mansell(Little League 1 experience) Ollie Clarke(No League 1 experience) Stuart Sinclair(No League experience) Jake Gosling(Little League experience) Cristian Montano(Little League 1 experience) Billy Bodin(No League 1 experience) Matty Taylor(No League experience) Ellis Harrison(No League 1 experience) Rory Gaffney(No League 1 experience) Plus other loanees Jake Clarke Salter, Charlie Colkett, Hiram Boateng, Ryan Sweeney and Connor Roberts who had no league experience. There's more League 1 experience in this current squad than DC's in League 1. So the bunch of fraudulent wasters we have currently are a total embarrassment and as a squad are worse. However I dont think its down to inexperience at this level, when in fact theres more experience in it than there were in previous DC teams. I wasn't looking for a comparison. Simply saying with 14-16 players in our squad that either have practically no experience in L1 or no experience at all, Barton's comments about recruitment were fairly accurate.
It's not a fair comparison anyway because almost all of DC's squad were not signed to play in L1. They were signed for the conference or league 2 and earned the right to play in L1 by helping us to promotion.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2021 8:20:50 GMT
All in all joey talks a lot, proof is in the pudding this summer, can he walk the walk? We are basically down, so time to shut up and show us something Joey...
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Post by Langford Gas on Apr 22, 2021 8:35:12 GMT
“If you take a lot of players from below this level, then you’re asking for it. We never did that at Fleetwood, it was either at the level or above and why? Because it’s very difficult to ask lots of people, to step up at the same time. It’s not football manager where you buy a 21 or 22-year-old and he sorts it out, this is real, professional football.” I’m a bit confused by this remark to be honest. I get what he’s saying about the 21, 22 year old thing but only Jonah Ayunga and David Tutonda came from a level below Rovers and Tutonda has barely started. The rest came from League One or Championship clubs with the exception of Grant and McCormick that came from Chelsea and Sam Nicholson who came from the MLS. It’s just factually incorrect. Personally I interprete it as below this level ability wise,regardless of where they came from
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Post by alanrg on Apr 22, 2021 8:40:46 GMT
Re Sam Frost report this morning on the Barton Widdrington situation back in 2014 when we got relegated to non league John Ward was sacked as Director of Football with us going into League 2 there should be no need for one
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Post by gashead1981 on Apr 22, 2021 9:31:40 GMT
Re Sam Frost report this morning on the Barton Widdrington situation back in 2014 when we got relegated to non league John Ward was sacked as Director of Football with us going into League 2 there should be no need for one We still need a scouting network though. Scouts to watch players JB is interested in, scouts to watch oppositon games, scouts to watch U23s, U18s all of which needs a co-ordinator to go out and spend time doing or even looking at data and analysis of these players. It's easy to say that TW is responsible, and he is, but as much as JB wants to recruit, you still needs eyes on to make sure those players fit what JB is asking. It could be that JB fancies a whole bunch of players, but their style has changed, injuries have preventing them stepping up or his vision of what he is capable of is disproven in what that player has actually does in the previous season(s). Getting rid of someone and his network is all well and good but we still need to replace that network and that cant be done in a summer, that needs to be planned 6 months in advance at least or the managers will literally be flying blind. If anyone who wants us to get promoted next year thinks that removing TW and his network will be beneficial and not needed in L2 next year then you are underestimating the task in hand.
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Post by Gastafari on Apr 22, 2021 11:22:33 GMT
Compare it to DC's squads in League 1. How many loan keepers with little or no league experience. Lee Brown(No league 1 experience) Tom Lockyer(No League 1 experience) Jonathan Burn(Little League experience) James Clarke(No league experience) Mark Mchrystal(Little league experience) Joe Partington(Little League 1 experience) Daniel Leadbitter(No League 1 experience) Tyler Little(No League experience) Lee Mansell(Little League 1 experience) Ollie Clarke(No League 1 experience) Stuart Sinclair(No League experience) Jake Gosling(Little League experience) Cristian Montano(Little League 1 experience) Billy Bodin(No League 1 experience) Matty Taylor(No League experience) Ellis Harrison(No League 1 experience) Rory Gaffney(No League 1 experience) Plus other loanees Jake Clarke Salter, Charlie Colkett, Hiram Boateng, Ryan Sweeney and Connor Roberts who had no league experience. There's more League 1 experience in this current squad than DC's in League 1. So the bunch of fraudulent wasters we have currently are a total embarrassment and as a squad are worse. However I dont think its down to inexperience at this level, when in fact theres more experience in it than there were in previous DC teams. I wasn't looking for a comparison. Simply saying with 14-16 players in our squad that either have practically no experience in L1 or no experience at all, Barton's comments about recruitment were fairly accurate.
It's not a fair comparison anyway because almost all of DC's squad were not signed to play in L1. They were signed for the conference or league 2 and earned the right to play in L1 by helping us to promotion.
So it doesn't matter what level you've played at then. Which again highlights the point that it's a strange comment from Barton.
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Post by Jomo on Apr 22, 2021 11:25:44 GMT
“If you take a lot of players from below this level, then you’re asking for it. We never did that at Fleetwood, it was either at the level or above and why? Because it’s very difficult to ask lots of people, to step up at the same time. It’s not football manager where you buy a 21 or 22-year-old and he sorts it out, this is real, professional football.” I’m a bit confused by this remark to be honest. I get what he’s saying about the 21, 22 year old thing but only Jonah Ayunga and David Tutonda came from a level below Rovers and Tutonda has barely started. The rest came from League One or Championship clubs with the exception of Grant and McCormick that came from Chelsea and Sam Nicholson who came from the MLS. It’s just factually incorrect. Personally I interprete it as below this level ability wise,regardless of where they came from No offence, but I do think that's a strange way to interpret it. Would anyone say about Zain Westbrooke, Max Ehmer and Brandon Hanlan "they've come from a lower level, in the sense that they're not good enough for league one"?
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Post by lpgas1 on Apr 22, 2021 11:51:08 GMT
“If you take a lot of players from below this level, then you’re asking for it. We never did that at Fleetwood, it was either at the level or above and why? Because it’s very difficult to ask lots of people, to step up at the same time. It’s not football manager where you buy a 21 or 22-year-old and he sorts it out, this is real, professional football.” I’m a bit confused by this remark to be honest. I get what he’s saying about the 21, 22 year old thing but only Jonah Ayunga and David Tutonda came from a level below Rovers and Tutonda has barely started. The rest came from League One or Championship clubs with the exception of Grant and McCormick that came from Chelsea and Sam Nicholson who came from the MLS. It’s just factually incorrect. No it's not. Take Koiki for example, he came from a Premier League club, but that doesn't make him any better than the rest, because he has never regulary played "mens" football, or Division One football. He played U-23, where he met other U-23 players. And to be honest there are lots of players like him who you take on, but they never develop in to a first team player, hundreds of these lads get released every year. This also applies to Ben Lidle, Josh Barrett and James Daly. It doesnt apply to Mc Cormack because he has played at this level before.
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Post by lpgas1 on Apr 22, 2021 11:59:26 GMT
Would you say Paul Cook with a current win % of 16.7 with much better players has shocking lack of managerial ability too? I have to say I was impressed with Bartons Fleetwood side when they played us. If he can replicate that here we will be right up there. I would say having a worse record than both Garner and Tisdale, while dropping 5 places in the table to rock bottom is pretty damning though, isn't it? Garner and Tisdale didn't have Daly, Ogogo, Barrett, Rodman, Nicholson, Koiki, Grant, Little, and Jaakola injured ( and Upson suspended)
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Apr 22, 2021 12:18:48 GMT
I would say having a worse record than both Garner and Tisdale, while dropping 5 places in the table to rock bottom is pretty damning though, isn't it? Garner and Tisdale didn't have Daly, Ogogo, Barrett, Rodman, Nicholson, Koiki, Grant, Little, and Jaakola injured ( and Upson suspended) Garner decided Grant and Upson were both better than Ogogo.
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Post by GasAttacK on Apr 22, 2021 12:28:23 GMT
I wasn't looking for a comparison. Simply saying with 14-16 players in our squad that either have practically no experience in L1 or no experience at all, Barton's comments about recruitment were fairly accurate.
It's not a fair comparison anyway because almost all of DC's squad were not signed to play in L1. They were signed for the conference or league 2 and earned the right to play in L1 by helping us to promotion.
So it doesn't matter what level you've played at then. Which again highlights the point that it's a strange comment from Barton. There is a massive difference between signing 14-16 players with little or no experience in L1 to a squad full of seasoned pros who proved their worth by winning promotion from L2.
DC had been working with that group and therefore should know if they were capable of making the step up to L1. When you win promotion you don't immediatly change the entire squad because they've never played in the league above.
Barton isn't saying you can never find a gem from lower leagues or that you shouldn't have any players under 25.
He's simply pointing out we let many experienced players go and took a huge risk by replacing them with too many youngsters who were not proven in L1 and in some cases not proven at all.
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Post by Gastafari on Apr 22, 2021 12:29:25 GMT
I would say having a worse record than both Garner and Tisdale, while dropping 5 places in the table to rock bottom is pretty damning though, isn't it? Garner and Tisdale didn't have Daly, Ogogo, Barrett, Rodman, Nicholson, Koiki, Grant, Little, and Jaakola injured ( and Upson suspended) Pretty sure Jaakola has been out through international duty and injury before Barton. I think Tisdale signed Joe Day. Squads have injuries. We've still dropped 5 places since Barton has been manager.
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Post by Gastafari on Apr 22, 2021 12:36:28 GMT
So it doesn't matter what level you've played at then. Which again highlights the point that it's a strange comment from Barton. There is a massive difference between signing 14-16 players with little or no experience in L1 to a squad full of seasoned pros who proved their worth by winning promotion from L2.
DC had been working with that group and therefore should know if they were capable of making the step up to L1. When you win promotion you don't immediatly change the entire squad because they've never played in the league above.
Barton isn't saying you can never find a gem from lower leagues or that you shouldn't have any players under 25.
He's simply pointing out we let many experienced players go and took a huge risk by replacing them with too many youngsters who were not proven in L1 and in some cases not proven at all.
Ehmer, Baldwin, Oztumer and Hanlan all played many games at League 1. Nicholson over 200 games in SPL and MLS. Westbrooke played over 30 games for the champions the year before. Added to Jaakola, Leahy, Rodman who have all played games at League 1 or the level above. There's plenty of experience. Yes they've been a total embarrassment this season, but I don't think it has anything to do with the levels they've played at. As already pointed out DC's squad had less experience and fewer players to have played at that level. The difference is they were a better squad of players as a collective, nothing to do with where they came from or the level they played at.
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Post by lpgas1 on Apr 22, 2021 12:44:18 GMT
Garner and Tisdale didn't have Daly, Ogogo, Barrett, Rodman, Nicholson, Koiki, Grant, Little, and Jaakola injured ( and Upson suspended) Pretty sure Jaakola has been out through international duty and injury before Barton. I think Tisdale signed Joe Day. Squads have injuries. We've still dropped 5 places since Barton has been manager. Because neither of our strikers (1 once got 13 goals in a season) and the non league one, can score goals, even when they are 3 yards out.
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Post by GasAttacK on Apr 22, 2021 12:56:16 GMT
There is a massive difference between signing 14-16 players with little or no experience in L1 to a squad full of seasoned pros who proved their worth by winning promotion from L2.
DC had been working with that group and therefore should know if they were capable of making the step up to L1. When you win promotion you don't immediatly change the entire squad because they've never played in the league above.
Barton isn't saying you can never find a gem from lower leagues or that you shouldn't have any players under 25.
He's simply pointing out we let many experienced players go and took a huge risk by replacing them with too many youngsters who were not proven in L1 and in some cases not proven at all.
Ehmer, Baldwin, Oztumer and Hanlan all played many games at League 1. Nicholson over 200 games in SPL and MLS. Westbrooke played over 30 games for the champions the year before. Added to Jaakola, Leahy, Rodman who have all played games at League 1 or the level above. There's plenty of experience. Yes they've been a total embarrassment this season, but I don't think it has anything to do with the levels they've played at. As already pointed out DC's squad had less experience and fewer players to have played at that level. The difference is they were a better squad of players as a collective, nothing to do with where they came from or the level they played at. It really just confirms Barton's point. Many of those you experienced pros you mention Jaakkola, Leahy, Rodman, Nicholson, even Hanlan before he lost his confidence and Ogogo when he briefly returned from loan, have been our best players and most we're here before the big clearout out last summer.
We took a huge risk last summer releasing or selling experienced L1 players and replacing them with too many youngsters who were not proven in L1 and in a lot of cases not proven at any level.
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Post by Gastafari on Apr 22, 2021 12:56:38 GMT
Pretty sure Jaakola has been out through international duty and injury before Barton. I think Tisdale signed Joe Day. Squads have injuries. We've still dropped 5 places since Barton has been manager. Because neither of our strikers (1 once got 13 goals in a season) and the non league one, can score goals, even when they are 3 yards out. Brandan Hanlans record at League 1 level for Gillingham and ourselves is better than JCH's was for Oldham, Rotherham and Coventry before signing here. The players signed just haven't worked. All I'm saying is that Joey Barton’s record is worse than the previous 2 managers. We've dropped 5 places under him as manager. It's my opinion that his style since he's come in doesn't work, blaming everybody from referee's, Recruitment, Players, The Board, pretty much everyone but himself doesn't work. Jose Mourinho has had this approach over the last 5 years, spats with Physios, Players and boards and blaming everyone and everything but himself. It doesn't work at big Premier League clubs, let alone a sh*t 3rd Division club. He's been a disastrous appointment(Just like the previous 2) and can't see it ever working.
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Post by warehamgas on Apr 22, 2021 13:08:00 GMT
Blimey, we’ve been poor under 3 managers. We’re now bottom and going down. The argument over “whose” players they are is just a deflection from JBs poor stint as a manager. There is plenty of League 1 experience there to offset some of the younger, inexperienced players. We really are going over old arguments about who’s less poor, who’s done a least bad job as manager etc. And I’m not advocating sacking JB, he’s got to have a chance to bring in new players and start next season. But we don’t need to throw everything out as he seems to be saying. But for JB to imply that the recruitment looked below our level is plain wrong. Plenty of League 1 experience was signed it’s just no one has been able to mould them into a team.
UTG!
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