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Post by peterparker on Aug 21, 2021 9:14:04 GMT
I can see both sides to this. On one hand, the supporters club is saying that they don't want to give £50k to a company that is not directly owned by Bristol Rovers. The company is a connected by the ownership of Wael but is not owned. So they think they are giving the £50k directly to Wael which maybe against the finer detail of the arrangement in 2017. Wael is saying, you promised the £50k and now you are going back on that promise. You have been a pain in my ass for the last 5 years and you continue to do so. He has put £3m into the club in the last year and the £50k is just P?!s in the ocean in comparison. I am pro Wael, he has put his money where his mouth is and I firmly believe that without him we wouldn't have a club. However, I would have thought that there was some middle ground to be had here. I watched the Aaron Collins interview and he mentioned that the gym facilities were fantastic. So, things are moving in the right direction at the colony. I think the supporters club want something tangible that they can turn around and say, we paid for that and just handing over the £50k doesn't achieve that. When people bought 50/50 tickets, if they knew that the money was going to go to another one of Waels companies would they have still bought the ticket? There must be £50k of spend at the colony that can be identified that the supporters club can pay for and 'own'. This £50k on something that is owned by the SC would only be an issue if Wael was to try and sell The Colony. Weighing up in my own tiny mind, I think the supporters club probably have a point. However the way they are behaving is childish and hostile which I don't agree with. The SC may as well never give any money to the club if they are concerned about the ownership of things Wael owns everything. Even if the training ground was in the name of the football club, there would be nothing stopping any future transactions to take it out of ownership of the FC in the future as long as Wael owns 90%+ of the club depending on his whims and what he might do in the future
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2021 9:17:47 GMT
I can see both sides to this. On one hand, the supporters club is saying that they don't want to give £50k to a company that is not directly owned by Bristol Rovers. The company is a connected by the ownership of Wael but is not owned. So they think they are giving the £50k directly to Wael which maybe against the finer detail of the arrangement in 2017. Wael is saying, you promised the £50k and now you are going back on that promise. You have been a pain in my ass for the last 5 years and you continue to do so. He has put £3m into the club in the last year and the £50k is just P?!s in the ocean in comparison. I am pro Wael, he has put his money where his mouth is and I firmly believe that without him we wouldn't have a club. However, I would have thought that there was some middle ground to be had here. I watched the Aaron Collins interview and he mentioned that the gym facilities were fantastic. So, things are moving in the right direction at the colony. I think the supporters club want something tangible that they can turn around and say, we paid for that and just handing over the £50k doesn't achieve that. When people bought 50/50 tickets, if they knew that the money was going to go to another one of Waels companies would they have still bought the ticket? There must be £50k of spend at the colony that can be identified that the supporters club can pay for and 'own'. This £50k on something that is owned by the SC would only be an issue if Wael was to try and sell The Colony. Weighing up in my own tiny mind, I think the supporters club probably have a point. However the way they are behaving is childish and hostile which I don't agree with. Get your point but isn’t the SC meant to be a non-profit organisation (or have I got that totally wrong?) Also if they physically own an asset then they will have to account for it and depreciation etc in their accounts and then any maintenance and upkeep as an ongoing concern. Also they will have to grant legal rights of use to the club in order to use it and due to the legalities around the covenants at the training ground then certain additional permissions may be required re fans being able to attend and watch youth games etc as currently no paying customer is allowed at present. Also process will be required to make sure fans admission and health & safety are met etc…. Something that sounds as innocuous as what the SC is proposing has significant knock on implications and potential additional costs… For me I agree something at the Quarters that is independent or unique should be found and then it could be ‘sponsored’ by the SC….in that way the SC know what their money has funded yet the club owns it and the club has the asset and liability etc stuff to account for like they do with every else. The SC could have their name and logo on whatever it is too…. Then going forward the SC could decide what and whether they want to ‘sponsor’ anything else on an annual basis working with the club and seeking the views of its membership
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Post by peterparker on Aug 21, 2021 9:17:51 GMT
... When people bought 50/50 tickets, if they knew that the money was going to go to another one of Waels companies would they have still bought the ticket?... When people bought 50/50 tickets, did they know that 50% of the proceeds would be held in the supporters club bank account and not used for he purpose outlined in the competition rules?
The 50k 'demand' is to do with money from the sale of the shop, but allegedly agreed with the club, although the SC are moaning about ownership of the training ground, without knowing what they are talking about, or that at the end of the day, they have Jack sh** control over what Wael can do what he likes with his club
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Post by bluestone on Aug 21, 2021 9:20:06 GMT
Here's a question.... Do the SC still own any assets of BRFC that they previously raised funds for before Wael was the owner?
If not then why do they feel the need to retain control of the £50k?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2021 9:27:14 GMT
Here's a question.... Do the SC still own any assets of BRFC that they previously raised funds for before Wael was the owner? If not then why do they feel the need to retain control of the £50k? Yes, they own approx 4% of the shares so own approx 4% of the assets of Bristol Rovers 1883 ltd
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Post by bluestone on Aug 21, 2021 9:29:29 GMT
Here's a question.... Do the SC still own any assets of BRFC that they previously raised funds for before Wael was the owner? If not then why do they feel the need to retain control of the £50k? Yes, they own approx 4% of the shares so own approx 4% of the assets of Bristol Rovers 1883 ltd I'm taking about individual specific assets, i.e physical items such as goal posts, dugouts, tunnels, tables, chairs whatever
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Post by gasify on Aug 21, 2021 9:37:14 GMT
I can see both sides to this. On one hand, the supporters club is saying that they don't want to give £50k to a company that is not directly owned by Bristol Rovers. The company is a connected by the ownership of Wael but is not owned. So they think they are giving the £50k directly to Wael which maybe against the finer detail of the arrangement in 2017. Wael is saying, you promised the £50k and now you are going back on that promise. You have been a pain in my ass for the last 5 years and you continue to do so. He has put £3m into the club in the last year and the £50k is just P?!s in the ocean in comparison. I am pro Wael, he has put his money where his mouth is and I firmly believe that without him we wouldn't have a club. However, I would have thought that there was some middle ground to be had here. I watched the Aaron Collins interview and he mentioned that the gym facilities were fantastic. So, things are moving in the right direction at the colony. I think the supporters club want something tangible that they can turn around and say, we paid for that and just handing over the £50k doesn't achieve that. When people bought 50/50 tickets, if they knew that the money was going to go to another one of Waels companies would they have still bought the ticket? There must be £50k of spend at the colony that can be identified that the supporters club can pay for and 'own'. This £50k on something that is owned by the SC would only be an issue if Wael was to try and sell The Colony. Weighing up in my own tiny mind, I think the supporters club probably have a point. However the way they are behaving is childish and hostile which I don't agree with. The SC may as well never give any money to the club if they are concerned about the ownership of things Wael owns everything. Even if the training ground was in the name of the football club, there would be nothing stopping any future transactions to take it out of ownership of the FC in the future as long as Wael owns 90%+ of the club depending on his whims and what he might do in the future Of course your right. However, there would be pain and expense associated with that scenario. It would also trigger questions as to why. Don't get me wrong, Wael owns everything. I wonder if this is more about vanity, so the supporters club can say "We paid for that".
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2021 9:55:46 GMT
The SC may as well never give any money to the club if they are concerned about the ownership of things Wael owns everything. Even if the training ground was in the name of the football club, there would be nothing stopping any future transactions to take it out of ownership of the FC in the future as long as Wael owns 90%+ of the club depending on his whims and what he might do in the future Of course your right. However, there would be pain and expense associated with that scenario. It would also trigger questions as to why. Don't get me wrong, Wael owns everything. I wonder if this is more about vanity, so the supporters club can say "We paid for that". Hence my post about going down a sponsorship type approach
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Post by giles on Aug 21, 2021 10:02:47 GMT
I can see both sides to this. On one hand, the supporters club is saying that they don't want to give £50k to a company that is not directly owned by Bristol Rovers. The company is a connected by the ownership of Wael but is not owned. So they think they are giving the £50k directly to Wael which maybe against the finer detail of the arrangement in 2017. Wael is saying, you promised the £50k and now you are going back on that promise. You have been a pain in my ass for the last 5 years and you continue to do so. He has put £3m into the club in the last year and the £50k is just P?!s in the ocean in comparison. I am pro Wael, he has put his money where his mouth is and I firmly believe that without him we wouldn't have a club. However, I would have thought that there was some middle ground to be had here. I watched the Aaron Collins interview and he mentioned that the gym facilities were fantastic. So, things are moving in the right direction at the colony. I think the supporters club want something tangible that they can turn around and say, we paid for that and just handing over the £50k doesn't achieve that. When people bought 50/50 tickets, if they knew that the money was going to go to another one of Waels companies would they have still bought the ticket? There must be £50k of spend at the colony that can be identified that the supporters club can pay for and 'own'. This £50k on something that is owned by the SC would only be an issue if Wael was to try and sell The Colony. Weighing up in my own tiny mind, I think the supporters club probably have a point. However the way they are behaving is childish and hostile which I don't agree with. But the issue seems to be that the SC has proposed originally to provide funds for spectator facilities for SUPPORTERS to be able to watch u18 and u23 games not for the club to spend as they choose. Personally I used to watch the u23s more than the first team due to family commitments etc and can understand the rationale for providing facilities
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Post by Henbury Gas on Aug 21, 2021 10:03:26 GMT
Why not give them another £50k worth of shares in exchange ?
No skin of Wael's nose to do that
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Post by oldie on Aug 21, 2021 10:14:09 GMT
Why not give them another £50k worth of shares in exchange ? No skin of Wael's nose to do that At £1k per share. Deal.
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Post by madgas on Aug 21, 2021 12:00:13 GMT
I can see both sides to this. On one hand, the supporters club is saying that they don't want to give £50k to a company that is not directly owned by Bristol Rovers. The company is a connected by the ownership of Wael but is not owned. So they think they are giving the £50k directly to Wael which maybe against the finer detail of the arrangement in 2017. Wael is saying, you promised the £50k and now you are going back on that promise. You have been a pain in my ass for the last 5 years and you continue to do so. He has put £3m into the club in the last year and the £50k is just P?!s in the ocean in comparison. I am pro Wael, he has put his money where his mouth is and I firmly believe that without him we wouldn't have a club. However, I would have thought that there was some middle ground to be had here. I watched the Aaron Collins interview and he mentioned that the gym facilities were fantastic. So, things are moving in the right direction at the colony. I think the supporters club want something tangible that they can turn around and say, we paid for that and just handing over the £50k doesn't achieve that. When people bought 50/50 tickets, if they knew that the money was going to go to another one of Waels companies would they have still bought the ticket? There must be £50k of spend at the colony that can be identified that the supporters club can pay for and 'own'. This £50k on something that is owned by the SC would only be an issue if Wael was to try and sell The Colony. Weighing up in my own tiny mind, I think the supporters club probably have a point. However the way they are behaving is childish and hostile which I don't agree with. But the issue seems to be that the SC has proposed originally to provide funds for spectator facilities for SUPPORTERS to be able to watch u18 and u23 games not for the club to spend as they choose. Personally I used to watch the u23s more than the first team due to family commitments etc and can understand the rationale for providing facilities I don't think what Wael has said necessarily contradicts that. However the original statement came from SC that implying the £50k was a demand from Wael. He'd like the contribution but it appears it is not necessary. I also don't think we're particularly being utilitarian in our thinking. Very few want to watch the training ground antics- and very few can. The vast majority of gasheads would rather the coins were spent on helping the first team.
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Post by baggins on Aug 21, 2021 12:05:05 GMT
But the issue seems to be that the SC has proposed originally to provide funds for spectator facilities for SUPPORTERS to be able to watch u18 and u23 games not for the club to spend as they choose. Personally I used to watch the u23s more than the first team due to family commitments etc and can understand the rationale for providing facilities I don't think what Wael has said necessarily contradicts that. However the original statement came from SC that implying the £50k was a demand from Wael. He'd like the contribution but it appears it is not necessary. I also don't think we're particularly being utilitarian in our thinking. Very few want to watch the training ground antics- and very few can. The vast majority of gasheads would rather the coins were spent on helping the first team. Isn't Wael doing both?
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Post by mariobalotelli on Aug 21, 2021 12:25:11 GMT
There's a big issue with the "old boys" and the current regime IMO, and it's not the current regimes fault.
My old man and his mates are old boys and in their opinion WAQ has done nothing for the club, doesn't put the money in and we'll be better off when he sells up. I've tried arguing it but with some people they just never listen.
IMO, the SC shouldn't just have money sitting in a bank account doing nothing. Any funds should directly go to the club, whether they do that in the form of handing it over or sponsoring players who wouldn't otherwise get it etc.
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Post by baggins on Aug 21, 2021 12:30:43 GMT
There's a big issue with the "old boys" and the current regime IMO, and it's not the current regimes fault. My old man and his mates are old boys and in their opinion WAQ has done nothing for the club, doesn't put the money in and we'll be better off when he sells up. I've tried arguing it but with some people they just never listen. IMO, the SC shouldn't just have money sitting in a bank account doing nothing. Any funds should directly go to the club, whether they do that in the form of handing it over or sponsoring players who wouldn't otherwise get it etc. Done nothing for the Club? Old family eh?
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Post by mariobalotelli on Aug 21, 2021 12:32:45 GMT
There's a big issue with the "old boys" and the current regime IMO, and it's not the current regimes fault. My old man and his mates are old boys and in their opinion WAQ has done nothing for the club, doesn't put the money in and we'll be better off when he sells up. I've tried arguing it but with some people they just never listen. IMO, the SC shouldn't just have money sitting in a bank account doing nothing. Any funds should directly go to the club, whether they do that in the form of handing it over or sponsoring players who wouldn't otherwise get it etc. Done nothing for the Club? Old family eh? Still very much under the impression we have a billionaire owner refusing to put money in. 🤦♂️
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Post by baggins on Aug 21, 2021 12:36:34 GMT
Done nothing for the Club? Old family eh? Still very much under the impression we have a billionaire owner refusing to put money in. 🤦♂️ Like that huh?
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Post by gasify on Aug 21, 2021 12:44:57 GMT
I can see both sides to this. On one hand, the supporters club is saying that they don't want to give £50k to a company that is not directly owned by Bristol Rovers. The company is a connected by the ownership of Wael but is not owned. So they think they are giving the £50k directly to Wael which maybe against the finer detail of the arrangement in 2017. Wael is saying, you promised the £50k and now you are going back on that promise. You have been a pain in my ass for the last 5 years and you continue to do so. He has put £3m into the club in the last year and the £50k is just P?!s in the ocean in comparison. I am pro Wael, he has put his money where his mouth is and I firmly believe that without him we wouldn't have a club. However, I would have thought that there was some middle ground to be had here. I watched the Aaron Collins interview and he mentioned that the gym facilities were fantastic. So, things are moving in the right direction at the colony. I think the supporters club want something tangible that they can turn around and say, we paid for that and just handing over the £50k doesn't achieve that. When people bought 50/50 tickets, if they knew that the money was going to go to another one of Waels companies would they have still bought the ticket? There must be £50k of spend at the colony that can be identified that the supporters club can pay for and 'own'. This £50k on something that is owned by the SC would only be an issue if Wael was to try and sell The Colony. Weighing up in my own tiny mind, I think the supporters club probably have a point. However the way they are behaving is childish and hostile which I don't agree with. But the issue seems to be that the SC has proposed originally to provide funds for spectator facilities for SUPPORTERS to be able to watch u18 and u23 games not for the club to spend as they choose. Personally I used to watch the u23s more than the first team due to family commitments etc and can understand the rationale for providing facilities You are correct. The problem as I understand it is that when we put in planning permission for The Colony it was specified that spectators weren't allowed (aparently) which means unless the u18s and u23s play elsewhere (or the planning permission gets changed) then this just cannot happen. It's a weird situation to be in and that's why I can see both sides. I'm hoping that there is a solution that is in the best interests of Bristol Rovers.
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Post by gasify on Aug 21, 2021 12:47:25 GMT
But the issue seems to be that the SC has proposed originally to provide funds for spectator facilities for SUPPORTERS to be able to watch u18 and u23 games not for the club to spend as they choose. Personally I used to watch the u23s more than the first team due to family commitments etc and can understand the rationale for providing facilities I don't think what Wael has said necessarily contradicts that. However the original statement came from SC that implying the £50k was a demand from Wael. He'd like the contribution but it appears it is not necessary. I also don't think we're particularly being utilitarian in our thinking. Very few want to watch the training ground antics- and very few can. The vast majority of gasheads would rather the coins were spent on helping the first team. That is an interesting perspective. Personally, I would want the money to be spent on something that gives long term success on and off the pitch. However what that something is, I just don't know.
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Post by gasify on Aug 21, 2021 12:53:04 GMT
I can see both sides to this. On one hand, the supporters club is saying that they don't want to give £50k to a company that is not directly owned by Bristol Rovers. The company is a connected by the ownership of Wael but is not owned. So they think they are giving the £50k directly to Wael which maybe against the finer detail of the arrangement in 2017. Wael is saying, you promised the £50k and now you are going back on that promise. You have been a pain in my ass for the last 5 years and you continue to do so. He has put £3m into the club in the last year and the £50k is just P?!s in the ocean in comparison. I am pro Wael, he has put his money where his mouth is and I firmly believe that without him we wouldn't have a club. However, I would have thought that there was some middle ground to be had here. I watched the Aaron Collins interview and he mentioned that the gym facilities were fantastic. So, things are moving in the right direction at the colony. I think the supporters club want something tangible that they can turn around and say, we paid for that and just handing over the £50k doesn't achieve that. When people bought 50/50 tickets, if they knew that the money was going to go to another one of Waels companies would they have still bought the ticket? There must be £50k of spend at the colony that can be identified that the supporters club can pay for and 'own'. This £50k on something that is owned by the SC would only be an issue if Wael was to try and sell The Colony. Weighing up in my own tiny mind, I think the supporters club probably have a point. However the way they are behaving is childish and hostile which I don't agree with. Get your point but isn’t the SC meant to be a non-profit organisation (or have I got that totally wrong?) Also if they physically own an asset then they will have to account for it and depreciation etc in their accounts and then any maintenance and upkeep as an ongoing concern. Also they will have to grant legal rights of use to the club in order to use it and due to the legalities around the covenants at the training ground then certain additional permissions may be required re fans being able to attend and watch youth games etc as currently no paying customer is allowed at present. Also process will be required to make sure fans admission and health & safety are met etc…. Something that sounds as innocuous as what the SC is proposing has significant knock on implications and potential additional costs… For me I agree something at the Quarters that is independent or unique should be found and then it could be ‘sponsored’ by the SC….in that way the SC know what their money has funded yet the club owns it and the club has the asset and liability etc stuff to account for like they do with every else. The SC could have their name and logo on whatever it is too…. Then going forward the SC could decide what and whether they want to ‘sponsor’ anything else on an annual basis working with the club and seeking the views of its membership I think you are maybe over thinking it (or I am under thinking it). If they gave the money to Wael to spend on say dugouts (something that has been mentioned) then there is no reason why there cannot be a charge put on that asset, so if anything happens then the SC would still own it. To be honest, I thought closing the Kingswood shop was a mistake. I am a Kingswood boy born and bred and I saw having that shop in Two Mile Hill as a stamp on the fact Kingswood was a Rovers heartland. I used to get tickets and merchandise there all the time. My mum used to get the calendar there for my Christmas present each year. It was a sad day when that closed.
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