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Post by dragonfly on Oct 21, 2021 23:33:52 GMT
Climate has always changed and long before the industrial revolution began around 1850. Co2 historically has risen well above levels of today and fallen well below as well and long before man came about. Therefore why demonise Co2 which is our friend and one that we cannot exist without. We need Co2 to grow crops and the higher the levels the greater the crop yield. If you reduce Co2 and the Earth cooled by as little as 2 degrees centigrade the colder World would significantly impact the Human race with lower crop yields and the risk of widespread famine and food riots. History tells us that this did occur during the worst years of the Little Ice Age which diminished after Around 1850. The one degree or so rise in temperature since then is probably a rebound from the Little Ice Age. Tell Greta the World is not about to end. I'm sure you believe that, however during the little ice age temperatures were at most only about 0.5°C cooler than the early 20th century whereas temperatures have risen by a full 1°C over the past 120 years, and 0.7°C over just the past 40 years. The Industrial Revolution started almost a century before your 1850 date, add to that huge population growth, deforestation, etc. CO2 is important, it's the levels we are referring to, releasing stored CO2 in the form of coal, oil and gas has increased the amount in the atmosphere by 50% over pre industrial levels. We aren't reducing CO2 in the atmosphere so your concern doesn't arise, lowering by 2 degrees won't happen anytime soon. The 1 degree is not a "rebound". I would be interested if you could explain how the IR began around 1750 as one hugely important aspect of industrialisation such as the steam engine came about nearer to 1850 and it has generally been well illustrated in numerous books that The IR began around 1850. Co2 comprises about 0.04% of the atmosphere and many climate scientists who refer to the historic Co2 and Temperature records claim that there have been periods in the past when Co2 levels were higher than today and yet Temperatures were lower than today and vice versa. Climate science is very complex with many variables which are far from being understood and the models from the last 30 years have proven to have been significantly out from the reality. Huge numbers of people died of starvation in Europe due to the effects of the cold and wet during the Little Ice Age so we ignore that at our peril. Many climate Scientists claim it is a rebound from the LIA - I suppose it is about whose papers you read and who you believe. Up to 13 years ago I believed in the Manmade global warming propaganda until I read the literature they tried to discredit.
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Post by makecoalyourgoal on Oct 21, 2021 23:41:54 GMT
Is this the most middle-class forum subject ever? For what it's worth I got to Bradford last Saturday from where I live in the SE on public transport (train). To see a home match my carbon footprint is much higher as there is no realistic alternative but to drive in my old (up the) gas guzzler!
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Post by stuart1974 on Oct 22, 2021 0:05:19 GMT
I'm sure you believe that, however during the little ice age temperatures were at most only about 0.5°C cooler than the early 20th century whereas temperatures have risen by a full 1°C over the past 120 years, and 0.7°C over just the past 40 years. The Industrial Revolution started almost a century before your 1850 date, add to that huge population growth, deforestation, etc. CO2 is important, it's the levels we are referring to, releasing stored CO2 in the form of coal, oil and gas has increased the amount in the atmosphere by 50% over pre industrial levels. We aren't reducing CO2 in the atmosphere so your concern doesn't arise, lowering by 2 degrees won't happen anytime soon. The 1 degree is not a "rebound". I would be interested if you could explain how the IR began around 1750 as one hugely important aspect of industrialisation such as the steam engine came about nearer to 1850 and it has generally been well illustrated in numerous books that The IR began around 1850. Co2 comprises about 0.04% of the atmosphere and many climate scientists who refer to the historic Co2 and Temperature records claim that there have been periods in the past when Co2 levels were higher than today and yet Temperatures were lower than today and vice versa. Climate science is very complex with many variables which are far from being understood and the models from the last 30 years have proven to have been significantly out from the reality. Huge numbers of people died of starvation in Europe due to the effects of the cold and wet during the Little Ice Age so we ignore that at our peril. Many climate Scientists claim it is a rebound from the LIA - I suppose it is about whose papers you read and who you believe. Up to 13 years ago I believed in the Manmade global warming propaganda until I read the literature they tried to discredit. Do you have any reputable links to this? Steam engines have been around in various designs long before, for example Newcomen's designs stem from the early 1700 while James Watt's improvements are c1760. There are others of course, including the likes of John Smeaton who died in 1792. As for the Industrial Revolution, as with much of history it came in phases. The early stages with iron, coal, cotton mills and steam tended to be from the mid to late 1700s. There was a step change around 1850 which roughly corresponds with improvements in mass manufacturing and refinements in steel and chemical production. Ever been to Ironbridge, so called birthplace of the Industrial Revolution? The bridge after which it was named was built in 1779.
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Post by stuart1974 on Oct 22, 2021 0:17:08 GMT
Is this the most middle-class forum subject ever? For what it's worth I got to Bradford last Saturday from where I live in the SE on public transport (train). To see a home match my carbon footprint is much higher as there is no realistic alternative but to drive in my old (up the) gas guzzler! I'm not middle class! 😃
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Post by gulfofaden on Oct 22, 2021 5:14:39 GMT
Is this the most middle-class forum subject ever? For what it's worth I got to Bradford last Saturday from where I live in the SE on public transport (train). To see a home match my carbon footprint is much higher as there is no realistic alternative but to drive in my old (up the) gas guzzler! This is what many people (myself included) find a big stomach churning about CC activism. Most of my youth was my parents hiding from baiiffs, all of us hidden behind sofas etc. That’s still the reality for millions of people. Then someone with long drawn out vowels says “we have the biggest threat to humanity coming yada yada” In Maslow heirachy of needs, food, shelter, water come first then once these are met, we think about retirement and savings. When you have all of those, then we start thinking about climate change (not in all cases but it’s very common) Then, those better off, wringing their hands at dinner parties, then seek to take away the pleasures of the poor. Meat, cheap heating bills, even an easyJet flight to Spain one year out of 4. For their own good.
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Post by playtowin on Oct 22, 2021 5:52:40 GMT
www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/58595026How much longer can we justify the travel of fans and teams all over the country in the lower leagues. There can’t be any justification now for National Leagues below the top two tiers. Not just for the impact they have but also for the message it sends out If the distances are closer to games many more fans will travel. 200 to colchester or 2000 to swindon ? Its a non starter argument for the lower leagues. At the top end though were teams take 2000 where ever they travel make that regional. Im sure Liverpool will be happy to for go the champions league and not playing spurs,chelsea and arsenal.
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Post by trevorgas on Oct 22, 2021 6:35:49 GMT
I would be interested if you could explain how the IR began around 1750 as one hugely important aspect of industrialisation such as the steam engine came about nearer to 1850 and it has generally been well illustrated in numerous books that The IR began around 1850. Co2 comprises about 0.04% of the atmosphere and many climate scientists who refer to the historic Co2 and Temperature records claim that there have been periods in the past when Co2 levels were higher than today and yet Temperatures were lower than today and vice versa. Climate science is very complex with many variables which are far from being understood and the models from the last 30 years have proven to have been significantly out from the reality. Huge numbers of people died of starvation in Europe due to the effects of the cold and wet during the Little Ice Age so we ignore that at our peril. Many climate Scientists claim it is a rebound from the LIA - I suppose it is about whose papers you read and who you believe. Up to 13 years ago I believed in the Manmade global warming propaganda until I read the literature they tried to discredit. Do you have any reputable links to this? Steam engines have been around in various designs long before, for example Newcomen's designs stem from the early 1700 while James Watt's improvements are c1760. There are others of course, including the likes of John Smeaton who died in 1792. As for the Industrial Revolution, as with much of history it came in phases. The early stages with iron, coal, cotton mills and steam tended to be from the mid to late 1700s. There was a step change around 1850 which roughly corresponds with improvements in mass manufacturing and refinements in steel and chemical production. Ever been to Ironbridge, so called birthplace of the Industrial Revolution? The bridge after which it was named was built in 1779. Absolutely correct.
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Post by scdave on Oct 22, 2021 6:49:55 GMT
I am surprised the club doesn't do more.
Solar panels on the stands, collecting rainwater for recycling, living roofs on the pasty huts/shipping containers/portacabins, more environmentally friendly transport for the team/SC coaches (ie like the poo bus), car share plans for players and supporters etc.
They could also try and attract some local environmentally savvy youngsters ie why kill the planet by catching the bus to Ashton Gate, when you can walk to the Mem!
There are lots of things they can do. A drop in the ocean, I know, but every little helps.
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Oct 22, 2021 10:29:02 GMT
Is this the most middle-class forum subject ever? For what it's worth I got to Bradford last Saturday from where I live in the SE on public transport (train). To see a home match my carbon footprint is much higher as there is no realistic alternative but to drive in my old (up the) gas guzzler! Haha! Oh the irony of your username on this thread! Love it....
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Post by gulfofaden on Oct 22, 2021 11:16:04 GMT
I am surprised the club doesn't do more. Solar panels on the stands, collecting rainwater for recycling, living roofs on the pasty huts/shipping containers/portacabins, more environmentally friendly transport for the team/SC coaches (ie like the poo bus), car share plans for players and supporters etc. They could also try and attract some local environmentally savvy youngsters ie why kill the planet by catching the bus to Ashton Gate, when you can walk to the Mem! There are lots of things they can do. A drop in the ocean, I know, but every little helps. Because it costs money and the only trade off is attracting non existent eco conscious students who also like football.
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Post by legas on Oct 22, 2021 11:28:12 GMT
I am surprised the club doesn't do more. Solar panels on the stands, collecting rainwater for recycling, living roofs on the pasty huts/shipping containers/portacabins, more environmentally friendly transport for the team/SC coaches (ie like the poo bus), car share plans for players and supporters etc. They could also try and attract some local environmentally savvy youngsters ie why kill the planet by catching the bus to Ashton Gate, when you can walk to the Mem! There are lots of things they can do. A drop in the ocean, I know, but every little helps. I think we’re doing something like collecting rainwater at the new training ground aren’t we? A small step in the right direction I suppose.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2021 11:29:08 GMT
Can't agree to that. It'll take a lot more to stop the mega oil/fossil fuel industry and the hyper consumerism it enables. Are you happy to lead by example and forego any air travel, limit your water, electricity and fuel use? If yes, do you mind if your neighbor flys to Australia & New Zealand for a month then afterwards invites you into their new garden hot tub to tell you all about it? Bit of a strawman argument. For what it's worth I haven't flown in years and I'd save money on the gas and electricity under your example. My neighboUr wouldn't invite me anyway, he's a miserable git. 😁 Well that answers the question - you would think that you are doing your bit to help, so you can sleep easy, whilst nothing really changes. Psycho-liberalism is the best word for it.
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Post by baggins on Oct 22, 2021 12:05:45 GMT
Can we charter the new UK Yacht? That £250 mil diesel chugging mega thing Boris has ordered to carry the flag around the World?
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Post by stuart1974 on Oct 22, 2021 12:37:25 GMT
Bit of a strawman argument. For what it's worth I haven't flown in years and I'd save money on the gas and electricity under your example. My neighboUr wouldn't invite me anyway, he's a miserable git. 😁 Well that answers the question - you would think that you are doing your bit to help, so you can sleep easy, whilst nothing really changes. Psycho-liberalism is the best word for it. What's your advice? We need to do something and also lobby where we can. One thing history teaches us is that we can't rely on government, small changes lead to progress.
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Post by stuart1974 on Oct 22, 2021 12:39:30 GMT
I am surprised the club doesn't do more. Solar panels on the stands, collecting rainwater for recycling, living roofs on the pasty huts/shipping containers/portacabins, more environmentally friendly transport for the team/SC coaches (ie like the poo bus), car share plans for players and supporters etc. They could also try and attract some local environmentally savvy youngsters ie why kill the planet by catching the bus to Ashton Gate, when you can walk to the Mem! There are lots of things they can do. A drop in the ocean, I know, but every little helps. Because it costs money and the only trade off is attracting non existent eco conscious students who also like football. Well, we've doing our bit for decades by not using concrete for our stands. 😃
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Post by baggins on Oct 22, 2021 12:42:02 GMT
When China and the US start making an effort, I will.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2021 14:34:52 GMT
Well that answers the question - you would think that you are doing your bit to help, so you can sleep easy, whilst nothing really changes. Psycho-liberalism is the best word for it. What's your advice? We need to do something and also lobby where we can. One thing history teaches us is that we can't rely on government, small changes lead to progress. Ha you are winding me up now. That sentence was spectacular in that it said almost nothing 😂. I'm finishing work for the weekend anyway, have a good one stu.
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Post by dragonfly on Oct 22, 2021 22:46:08 GMT
I would be interested if you could explain how the IR began around 1750 as one hugely important aspect of industrialisation such as the steam engine came about nearer to 1850 and it has generally been well illustrated in numerous books that The IR began around 1850. Co2 comprises about 0.04% of the atmosphere and many climate scientists who refer to the historic Co2 and Temperature records claim that there have been periods in the past when Co2 levels were higher than today and yet Temperatures were lower than today and vice versa. Climate science is very complex with many variables which are far from being understood and the models from the last 30 years have proven to have been significantly out from the reality. Huge numbers of people died of starvation in Europe due to the effects of the cold and wet during the Little Ice Age so we ignore that at our peril. Many climate Scientists claim it is a rebound from the LIA - I suppose it is about whose papers you read and who you believe. Up to 13 years ago I believed in the Manmade global warming propaganda until I read the literature they tried to discredit. Do you have any reputable links to this? Steam engines have been around in various designs long before, for example Newcomen's designs stem from the early 1700 while James Watt's improvements are c1760. There are others of course, including the likes of John Smeaton who died in 1792. As for the Industrial Revolution, as with much of history it came in phases. The early stages with iron, coal, cotton mills and steam tended to be from the mid to late 1700s. There was a step change around 1850 which roughly corresponds with improvements in mass manufacturing and refinements in steel and chemical production. Ever been to Ironbridge, so called birthplace of the Industrial Revolution? The bridge after which it was named was built in 1779. I have no links to pass on as it was quite some time ago, however there are some interesting articles on sciencefocus.com in particular "The effects of the Little Ice Age went far beyond climate change". Thank you for the insightful information above and Ironbridge is on my to do list the next time I visit the Severn Valley Rly. I remember seeing Fred Dibnah on TV at IronBridge.
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Post by Somersetgas on Oct 22, 2021 23:00:31 GMT
I am surprised the club doesn't do more. Solar panels on the stands, collecting rainwater for recycling, living roofs on the pasty huts/shipping containers/portacabins, more environmentally friendly transport for the team/SC coaches (ie like the poo bus), car share plans for players and supporters etc. They could also try and attract some local environmentally savvy youngsters ie why kill the planet by catching the bus to Ashton Gate, when you can walk to the Mem! There are lots of things they can do. A drop in the ocean, I know, but every little helps. I think we’re doing something like collecting rainwater at the new training ground aren’t we? A small step in the right direction I suppose. Unless I’m really stupid , but where does that water come from out of my tap in the kitchen? Rainwater somewhere possibly?
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Post by mftc on Oct 23, 2021 7:57:27 GMT
I am surprised the club doesn't do more. Solar panels on the stands, collecting rainwater for recycling, living roofs on the pasty huts/shipping containers/portacabins, more environmentally friendly transport for the team/SC coaches (ie like the poo bus), car share plans for players and supporters etc. They could also try and attract some local environmentally savvy youngsters ie why kill the planet by catching the bus to Ashton Gate, when you can walk to the Mem! There are lots of things they can do. A drop in the ocean, I know, but every little helps. Because it costs money and the only trade off is attracting non existent eco conscious students who also like football. Surely there must be grants available. Also for for green firms getting a football club to introduce new measures must be good publicity, so you would have though TG could organiser a mates rate deal. If it saves the club electricity and water bills why don't they investigate it. With 8000+ fans we must have someone out there in the trade? Living roofs can't cost much. Let's face it there is a lot of unused space at the Mem. Where is the harm in growing a few strawberries on the roofs. Obviously we have history with the flowerbeds at Eastville. With the rugby gone maybe we could plant some behind the goals. Pretty sure I have seen plenty of pansies at the Mem before.
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