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Post by SleepyGas on Dec 7, 2021 13:45:31 GMT
I thought Ben Garner was sacked in mid November after about 11 or 12 games and that we only had about one point a game, I am sure we have more points than at the same stage last season all be it at a lower level. Correct. BG was sacked after we lost 4-1 to Fleetwood. That was our 11th league game of the season and we had 12 points (1.09 points per game). This season so far we have 23 points after 19 games (1.2 points per game). Interestingly our 11th league game of this season was our 3-0 win versus Carlisle. This saw us in 16th place (same as where we are now) and meant we had 13 points from 11 games (1.18 points per game). So only 1 point better off at that stage in the season (in a lower league).
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Post by SleepyGas on Dec 7, 2021 13:46:45 GMT
Of the players we had last year that have since departed, only 2 were of L1 quality. Hanlan and Leahy. Ehmer was truly awful for us, however I will cut him some slack as Tisdale tried to turn him into a winger at one point. Tutonda was never really given a chance but when he did get one I saw nothing that was was competition for Leahy, which is way Leahy played when available. Gillingham are currently in the relegation Zone, Morecombe, where Ayunga is just above them and isn’t playing regular football, Shrewsbury just above them where Leahy is. Hanlan has played a fair bit for Wycombe and has only scored 3 goals. I’d say JB was mostly right about all of them and the reason we got a fee for Hanlan was because he had some raw potential about him. As for Baldwin in the SPL, well he’s not at rangers or Celtic and the rest of the clubs are L1/L2 quality at best. I’d say that young Taylor is an upgrade Alfie certainly looks better beside him than he ever did with Baldwin and Anderton is improving with each game. Can't disagree with any of that. Still enough in the squad to stay up tho. As JB said when he arrived. Yeah we weren't even in the relegation places until Joey Barton took command... let alone rock bottom!
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Post by Tilly's Thighs on Dec 7, 2021 14:45:03 GMT
Who really was the disgrace? Was it the players - because we got relegated; or was it Barton - because with 10 weeks left to go in the season, only asked the players to report 1 day a week for training, as he had given up, and wanted all his own team. That to me is the biggest disgrace. Evidence please. Yet another unsubstantiated dig at JB. Strange how this surfaces now and not at the time. The poster has put his own twist on a situation. I think that there was one occassion when JB gave the players two consecutive midweek days off, following a run of Saturday and Tuesday games. As per normal, they didn't do a full session on the day of the evening game, and did a light session on the Friday, as they were travelling on the Friday afternoon. Training recovery times are monitored with sophisticated, electronic equipment - it isn't just a case of the manger deciding on a whim that they can have a few days off, as I'm sure most of us know.
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yattongas
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Post by yattongas on Dec 7, 2021 15:00:01 GMT
Before Ben Garner was appointed the alarm bells started ringing. I didn't like the direction the club had decided to go in. It was always a massive risk. I thought Ben Garner was the wrong man for the job, I thought the recruitment was extremely poor. Signing players like Ehmer who I always thought was a weak link when we played Gillingham and we make him captain. I said to all my gas friends that we would go down, hoped I would be wrong, but sadly wasn't. Players like hanlon, no composure, not strong enough, looks dangerous but doesn't score or add many assists either (Evans is ten times the player Hanlon is). Felt sorry for Tisdale and Barton to an extent, it didn't matter who we had as manager, we would always go down, we had players with no guts, no stomach for a fight. Until we changed direction off the pitch and bin this stupid way of recruitment we would struggle. Like him or loath him in a way I think Barton has turned our club around, it needed ripping up and starting again. The scary thing is he has lowered our wage bill by way over a million! How much were we paying those absolute failures to take us down! I can see patterns in our play emerging now, really like some of our players and most importantly of all the players have guts and fight about them. Yes we haven't got good enough results but the team is good enough to be in a winning position in the first place, rather than scraping for draws from losing positions. Add a striker, a strong right sided defender, get a few injuries back and we are easily good enough to go up. This team would wipe the floor with last seasons side. For the record Swindon were booed off last home game, fans not happy with dreadful home form, very poor to watch. They may be unstoppable away from home but Garner has still not learnt how to play at home. Good post 👏
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Post by Topper Gas on Dec 7, 2021 15:00:30 GMT
Of the players we had last year that have since departed, only 2 were of L1 quality. Hanlan and Leahy. Ehmer was truly awful for us, however I will cut him some slack as Tisdale tried to turn him into a winger at one point. Tutonda was never really given a chance but when he did get one I saw nothing that was was competition for Leahy, which is way Leahy played when available. Gillingham are currently in the relegation Zone, Morecombe, where Ayunga is just above them and isn’t playing regular football, Shrewsbury just above them where Leahy is. Hanlan has played a fair bit for Wycombe and has only scored 3 goals. I’d say JB was mostly right about all of them and the reason we got a fee for Hanlan was because he had some raw potential about him. As for Baldwin in the SPL, well he’s not at rangers or Celtic and the rest of the clubs are L1/L2 quality at best. I’d say that young Taylor is an upgrade Alfie certainly looks better beside him than he ever did with Baldwin and Anderton is improving with each game. Can't disagree with any of that. Still enough in the squad to stay up tho. As JB said when he arrived. Until Oztumer went missing after suffering from COVID and Nicholson season was ended, posters are deluded if they think Hanlan and Ayunga were going to create and score the goals to keep us up, the fact neither is doing that this season proves that point. We were basically relegated when TW/PT didn't bring in a striker or two in January. Hence why both are no longer at the club.
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Post by gasandelectricity on Dec 7, 2021 15:25:37 GMT
Ah Erhun Oztumer. Biggest disappointment of a signing I can remember right now.
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Post by brfc on Dec 7, 2021 16:53:58 GMT
Ah Erhun Oztumer. Biggest disappointment of a signing I can remember right now. He was so poor everyone forgot about him.
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Post by Colyton Gas on Dec 7, 2021 18:06:41 GMT
Another departure.Ryan Lowe from Muff.Will they be in for Joey?
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yattongas
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Post by yattongas on Dec 7, 2021 18:17:47 GMT
Another departure.Ryan Lowe from Muff.Will they be in for Joey? They’ve already given the job to the old number 2
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Post by Quarters on Dec 7, 2021 18:56:59 GMT
Another departure.Ryan Lowe from Muff.Will they be in for Joey? Gone to Preston!
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Post by Quarters on Dec 7, 2021 21:44:08 GMT
And Hanlon scores!
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Post by lastminutewinner on Dec 7, 2021 23:17:45 GMT
"The striker got the ball on left-hand touchline and ran past three members of the Brewers’ backline, before bending in a beautiful shot from 20-yards to give the Blues the lead"
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Post by richie on Dec 8, 2021 9:13:22 GMT
"The striker got the ball on left-hand touchline and ran past three members of the Brewers’ backline, before bending in a beautiful shot from 20-yards to give the Blues the lead" hes playing in a team that are nearly top of the table, 4 goals isnt the best return, given they cant exactly be struggling to create chances I'd expect him to be on the top scorers chart, hes not. If they go up i'd be suprised if he scored more tha 2 in the championship.
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Post by gashead1981 on Dec 8, 2021 9:22:14 GMT
Can't disagree with any of that. Still enough in the squad to stay up tho. As JB said when he arrived. Yeah we weren't even in the relegation places until Joey Barton took command... let alone rock bottom! But you cannot disagree that the availability of the squad that Barton inherited was not the same as the one that Tis and Garner had at their disposal. We were bereft of a decent and balanced squad by the time he got here. Alex Ferguson wouldnt have kept us up IMO. I dont think he gave up, he was just utterly powerless. We were playing kids for the last 10 games and they were being played out of position most of the time. We needed to sign a winger and 2 strikers in Jan and we failed, or rather Tisdale failed. His obsession with Stockley meant we missed out on players like Armand Gnanduliett who were free, available and ready to sign. We should have had the contracts signed and sent to the FA on Jan 1 with the players we needed. But he dicked about and we all paid the price. That said our DOF at the time should have over ruled him and just got some bodies in for him to play, which is what Starnes alluded to at the time by enquiring about Danny Hylton, that was him calling an old friend desperate for some help rather than Tis wanting Hylton. By that time it was too late, we had lost more games through Jan and we looked less and less of an attractive proposition to any player by the end of the window. It was no surprise we plummeted to the bottom.
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Post by SleepyGas on Dec 8, 2021 9:48:14 GMT
Yeah we weren't even in the relegation places until Joey Barton took command... let alone rock bottom! But you cannot disagree that the availability of the squad that Barton inherited was not the same as the one that Tis and Garner had at their disposal. We were bereft of a decent and balanced squad by the time he got here. Alex Ferguson wouldnt have kept us up IMO. I dont think he gave up, he was just utterly powerless. We were playing kids for the last 10 games and they were being played out of position most of the time. We needed to sign a winger and 2 strikers in Jan and we failed, or rather Tisdale failed. His obsession with Stockley meant we missed out on players like Armand Gnanduliett who were free, available and ready to sign. We should have had the contracts signed and sent to the FA on Jan 1 with the players we needed. But he dicked about and we all paid the price. That said our DOF at the time should have over ruled him and just got some bodies in for him to play, which is what Starnes alluded to at the time by enquiring about Danny Hylton, that was him calling an old friend desperate for some help rather than Tis wanting Hylton. By that time it was too late, we had lost more games through Jan and we looked less and less of an attractive proposition to any player by the end of the window. It was no surprise we plummeted to the bottom. Barton has consistently over-promised and under-delivered. We will never know what might have happened if Garner was the one that we stuck with.. would he have kept our players fit and ticking over with a PPG that ultimately would have kept us up (or better if he had plugged our holes in the January transfer window)? We will never know what would have happened if we kept Tisdale either. What we do know is we brought in Barton when we were outside the relegation zone and he has steered us to the very bottom of the league and now sitting 16th in League Two after 20 games (with the squad he was backed to build). Huge January window required to fix things and I have not seen much so far to suggest Barton is the man to trust to do it. This is before you consider all the off-field nonsense and fan division he is also guilty of
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Post by lastminutewinner on Dec 8, 2021 10:32:23 GMT
Yeah we weren't even in the relegation places until Joey Barton took command... let alone rock bottom! But you cannot disagree that the availability of the squad that Barton inherited was not the same as the one that Tis and Garner had at their disposal. We were bereft of a decent and balanced squad by the time he got here. Alex Ferguson wouldnt have kept us up IMO. I dont think he gave up, he was just utterly powerless. We were playing kids for the last 10 games and they were being played out of position most of the time. We needed to sign a winger and 2 strikers in Jan and we failed, or rather Tisdale failed. His obsession with Stockley meant we missed out on players like Armand Gnanduliett who were free, available and ready to sign. We should have had the contracts signed and sent to the FA on Jan 1 with the players we needed. But he dicked about and we all paid the price. That said our DOF at the time should have over ruled him and just got some bodies in for him to play, which is what Starnes alluded to at the time by enquiring about Danny Hylton, that was him calling an old friend desperate for some help rather than Tis wanting Hylton. By that time it was too late, we had lost more games through Jan and we looked less and less of an attractive proposition to any player by the end of the window. It was no surprise we plummeted to the bottom. I cant disagree with any of that. Many go on about we should have kept Garner (didn't see many complaining when he was sacked though?) but he took us from top 4 to relegation fodder (until covid struck), and that was with the best striker in the league. Having a striker like that can make the world of difference and IMO would have kept us up. I haven't checked the history records but I cant imagine many teams have finished safely after having 3 permanent managers in 1 season.
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Post by aghast on Dec 8, 2021 17:10:14 GMT
If you're going to compare records, Garner and Barton both left us in massively worse league positions from the time they took over until the time Garner left or Barton at present. Tisdale just didn't improve things.
Position when Garner appointed 4th L1 Position when Garner left and Tisdale appointmented 18th L1 Position when Tisdale left and Barton appointed 20th L1 Current position under Barton 16th L2
So Garner dropped us 14 places in the table, Tisdale 2, and the less said about Barton the better.
I'm not saying Tisdale was any good. I am suggesting his record, such as it was, was not nearly as bad as Garner and Barton's.
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Post by Tilly's Thighs on Dec 8, 2021 17:34:27 GMT
If you're going to compare records, Garner and Barton both left us in massively worse league positions from the time they took over until the time Garner left or Barton at present. Tisdale just didn't improve things. Position when Garner appointed 4th L1 Position when Garner left and Tisdale appointmented 18th L1 Position when Tisdale left and Barton appointed 20th L1 Current position under Barton 16th L2 So Garner dropped us 14 places in the table, Tisdale 2, and the less said about Barton the better. I'm not saying Tisdale was any good. I am suggesting his record, such as it was, was not nearly as bad as Garner and Barton's. I don't think that Tisdale was here long enough for us to make a conclusive judgement either way. His lack of activity in the January window was a big failing though.
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Post by mftc on Dec 8, 2021 18:08:25 GMT
Did Tis get a bit stitched up the same way as Clive Platt did to Graydon?
If Stockley came here, had a medical, agreed terms and then stitched us up the day before the deadline, there was not much time to do any other business.
We were subsequently told by Tommy after the Pompey game (and no doubt he told Tis) that Ayunga was the quality we were lookiy for.
Unfortunately while a fit Sammy N and Hanlon were probably good enough to normally keep us up, covid and the two matches a week schedule meant they had to be nursed through and we did it have the strei in depth.
Joey seemingly ignored the old medical staff and flogged them both till they dropped, so it was quickly game over.
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Post by aghast on Dec 8, 2021 18:10:57 GMT
If you're going to compare records, Garner and Barton both left us in massively worse league positions from the time they took over until the time Garner left or Barton at present. Tisdale just didn't improve things. Position when Garner appointed 4th L1 Position when Garner left and Tisdale appointmented 18th L1 Position when Tisdale left and Barton appointed 20th L1 Current position under Barton 16th L2 So Garner dropped us 14 places in the table, Tisdale 2, and the less said about Barton the better. I'm not saying Tisdale was any good. I am suggesting his record, such as it was, was not nearly as bad as Garner and Barton's. I don't think that Tisdale was here long enough for us to make a conclusive judgement either way. His lack of activity in the January window was a big failing though. I agree with what you say, but I think some have made Tisdale the scapegoat for our current failings, for, I think, two reasons: 1) Garner has, against all the odds, showed himself to be a competent manager, so maybe criticism of him now looks a bit misplaced; 2) Barton is the current incumbent and some feel criticism of him is not the best thing to do when we should be supporting the team, so he's immune, to some at least. So that leaves just Tisdale to have a go at. Even though he wasn't given a fair crack of the whip, so to speak. Anyway it's all in the past now, so I shall try not to mention him again.
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