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Post by warehamgas on Dec 9, 2021 14:01:16 GMT
if no naysayers want to answer the question how about saying if we kept Benny and last years squad would we be better or worse? Well, I’m no naysayer, but we couldn’t be much worse off could we really? Only 8 league places by my reckoning. UTG! |
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Post by gashead1981 on Dec 9, 2021 15:04:45 GMT
I’ll agree with your top sentence. Pretty disappointed with Barton this year tbh. I also agree it was an utterly bizarre decision to sack Garner when they did. With the benefit of hindsight it wasn’t a bad start to the season given where we know the teams that we did play ended up in the league that year and I also believe that continuity with Garner and philosophy would have kept us up with some additions in Jan. If we were going to sack Garner we should have done it in the summer or about around the second week of December after 22 games. I think the thought was that the new manager could have assessed the squad and then got everything lined up for the Jan window with some momentum behind us. Sadly, they appointed the wrong person. We should have, at the time, made an approach and signed Micheal Duff from Cheltenham, which is who I said we should have signed before Garner. He is exactly the type of fit for this club, very DC in the ways he goes about things and his teams play good football. We were defo going down with Tisdale in charge though. His incompetence and lack of focus purely on us (always doing pods, media and other bits) was distracting from the job in hand and I think Barton coming in highlighted that. I get you didn’t rate Tisdale, that’s your opinion. I didn’t want Tisdale as manager either, but IMO with Garner or Tisdale in charge we may still have gone down, but wouldn’t have been cut adrift at the bottom of the table. Barton came in with excuses, blaming everyone & everything from day one, and shamefully gave up on the job in the last 10 games. I would say his distractions far outweigh any distractions Tisdale had. Without the circus that Barton brings with him, he should be gone on results alone, but unfortunately I can’t see that happening. It was only a matter of time before we would have been cut adrift. We got battered 6-1 at Accrington. It wasnt that I didnt like Tisdale, he was just the wrong man for the job and that should have been obvious to everyone at interview. Not many players had much time for him come the end. I dont really remember Barton blaming everyone, he just told us how it was, which was that the players we had werent L1 standard (proven to be mostly correct bar 3 or 4), we had an attitude problem (mostly correct, none of the players look like they cared) and that all transfer windows had been mismanaged completely (absolutely correct). What Barton had to do was prove he didnt do any of the above himself. I think we all can agree that the team shows more fight and determination than what we have seen under either of the 2 managers, the fitness looks a whole lot sharper and we can last for 100 mins a game. The only thing he hasnt gotten quite right is the recruitment. We are short in a few areas and we have been dreadfully unlucky with injuries and with covid. We only got 2 weeks of pre-season in and most of that was with a limited squad. Pitman and Coutts for example didnt get one. |
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Post by SleepyGas on Dec 9, 2021 16:22:54 GMT
I get you didn’t rate Tisdale, that’s your opinion. I didn’t want Tisdale as manager either, but IMO with Garner or Tisdale in charge we may still have gone down, but wouldn’t have been cut adrift at the bottom of the table. Barton came in with excuses, blaming everyone & everything from day one, and shamefully gave up on the job in the last 10 games. I would say his distractions far outweigh any distractions Tisdale had. Without the circus that Barton brings with him, he should be gone on results alone, but unfortunately I can’t see that happening. It was only a matter of time before we would have been cut adrift. We got battered 6-1 at Accrington. It wasnt that I didnt like Tisdale, he was just the wrong man for the job and that should have been obvious to everyone at interview. Not many players had much time for him come the end. I dont really remember Barton blaming everyone, he just told us how it was, which was that the players we had werent L1 standard (proven to be mostly correct bar 3 or 4), we had an attitude problem (mostly correct, none of the players look like they cared) and that all transfer windows had been mismanaged completely (absolutely correct). What Barton had to do was prove he didnt do any of the above himself. I think we all can agree that the team shows more fight and determination than what we have seen under either of the 2 managers, the fitness looks a whole lot sharper and we can last for 100 mins a game. The only thing he hasnt gotten quite right is the recruitment. We are short in a few areas and we have been dreadfully unlucky with injuries and with covid. We only got 2 weeks of pre-season in and most of that was with a limited squad. Pitman and Coutts for example didnt get one. Barton did and does blame everyone. He slated the previous managers (who had the team higher in the league than him), the players (who got worse under him) and how many times was he talking about calling Mike Jones to whinge about referees? He talked up how a Joey Barton team is super fit.. but then signs Pitman, Thomas, Clark etc who have been anything but. You could say we've been dreadfully unlucky with injuries or maybe it is down to the ageing players we have signed or the training regime? I'll agree with you about the "fight" in this team though. Worst disciplinary record in the Football League by some distance. The proof of the pudding is our league position. It does not lie. We are 17th after 20 games. It would take hell of a run to get us challenging at the top end now - it's not impossible, but it is very unlikely. |
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Post by aghast on Dec 9, 2021 17:18:50 GMT
I get you didn’t rate Tisdale, that’s your opinion. I didn’t want Tisdale as manager either, but IMO with Garner or Tisdale in charge we may still have gone down, but wouldn’t have been cut adrift at the bottom of the table. Barton came in with excuses, blaming everyone & everything from day one, and shamefully gave up on the job in the last 10 games. I would say his distractions far outweigh any distractions Tisdale had. Without the circus that Barton brings with him, he should be gone on results alone, but unfortunately I can’t see that happening. It was only a matter of time before we would have been cut adrift. We got battered 6-1 at Accrington. It wasnt that I didnt like Tisdale, he was just the wrong man for the job and that should have been obvious to everyone at interview. Not many players had much time for him come the end. I dont really remember Barton blaming everyone, he just told us how it was, which was that the players we had werent L1 standard (proven to be mostly correct bar 3 or 4), we had an attitude problem (mostly correct, none of the players look like they cared) and that all transfer windows had been mismanaged completely (absolutely correct). What Barton had to do was prove he didnt do any of the above himself. I think we all can agree that the team shows more fight and determination than what we have seen under either of the 2 managers, the fitness looks a whole lot sharper and we can last for 100 mins a game. The only thing he hasnt gotten quite right is the recruitment. We are short in a few areas and we have been dreadfully unlucky with injuries and with covid. We only got 2 weeks of pre-season in and most of that was with a limited squad. Pitman and Coutts for example didnt get one. "The only thing he hasn't gotten quite right is the recruitment" Really and truly? Everything else has been done right? Blimey. I'd hate to see where we'll be if he starts getting things wrong. |
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Post by toddy1953 on Dec 9, 2021 17:32:53 GMT
I get you didn’t rate Tisdale, that’s your opinion. I didn’t want Tisdale as manager either, but IMO with Garner or Tisdale in charge we may still have gone down, but wouldn’t have been cut adrift at the bottom of the table. Barton came in with excuses, blaming everyone & everything from day one, and shamefully gave up on the job in the last 10 games. I would say his distractions far outweigh any distractions Tisdale had. Without the circus that Barton brings with him, he should be gone on results alone, but unfortunately I can’t see that happening. It was only a matter of time before we would have been cut adrift. We got battered 6-1 at Accrington. It wasnt that I didnt like Tisdale, he was just the wrong man for the job and that should have been obvious to everyone at interview. Not many players had much time for him come the end. I dont really remember Barton blaming everyone, he just told us how it was, which was that the players we had werent L1 standard (proven to be mostly correct bar 3 or 4), we had an attitude problem (mostly correct, none of the players look like they cared) and that all transfer windows had been mismanaged completely (absolutely correct). What Barton had to do was prove he didnt do any of the above himself. I think we all can agree that the team shows more fight and determination than what we have seen under either of the 2 managers, the fitness looks a whole lot sharper and we can last for 100 mins a game. The only thing he hasnt gotten quite right is the recruitment. We are short in a few areas and we have been dreadfully unlucky with injuries and with covid. We only got 2 weeks of pre-season in and most of that was with a limited squad. Pitman and Coutts for example didnt get one. As I said it’s opinions on whether we would have stayed up or not. Barton spent too much time telling us ‘how it was’, which achieved absolutely nothing in the end, except relegation. He blamed the last 2 managers & the recruiting of players, he quickly said they were not up to L1 standard, He said he probably wouldn’t have signed anyone in the squad - do you really think the players had much time for him? He blamed the officials. I agree as a club we have not got recruitment right for some time now, the difference being we are recruiting for L2 now & still can’t get a squad that Every club had issues re Covid, and as for injuries, I expect DC feels a bit hard done by with his injury crisis, but is getting results - he gambled on Pitman & Clarke, probably as last resorts, not sure that would be classed as unlucky but that unfortunately has not worked out. Not sure if we will see Clarke again. More quality signings like Evans & Taylor would be nice, can we afford them and would they come anyway? |
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Post by warehamgas on Dec 10, 2021 10:45:02 GMT
I get you didn’t rate Tisdale, that’s your opinion. I didn’t want Tisdale as manager either, but IMO with Garner or Tisdale in charge we may still have gone down, but wouldn’t have been cut adrift at the bottom of the table. Barton came in with excuses, blaming everyone & everything from day one, and shamefully gave up on the job in the last 10 games. I would say his distractions far outweigh any distractions Tisdale had. Without the circus that Barton brings with him, he should be gone on results alone, but unfortunately I can’t see that happening. It was only a matter of time before we would have been cut adrift. We got battered 6-1 at Accrington. It wasnt that I didnt like Tisdale, he was just the wrong man for the job and that should have been obvious to everyone at interview. Not many players had much time for him come the end. I dont really remember Barton blaming everyone, he just told us how it was, which was that the players we had werent L1 standard (proven to be mostly correct bar 3 or 4), we had an attitude problem (mostly correct, none of the players look like they cared) and that all transfer windows had been mismanaged completely (absolutely correct). What Barton had to do was prove he didnt do any of the above himself. I think we all can agree that the team shows more fight and determination than what we have seen under either of the 2 managers, the fitness looks a whole lot sharper and we can last for 100 mins a game. The only thing he hasnt gotten quite right is the recruitment. We are short in a few areas and we have been dreadfully unlucky with injuries and with covid. We only got 2 weeks of pre-season in and most of that was with a limited squad. Pitman and Coutts for example didnt get one. 1981, I get your total dislike of Tis from the moment he was appointed and you’ve never stopped telling us! But he wasn’t given a chance was he? A real chance that is. But he’s gone and in the past and was there for less time than any other manager so his part in our demise is the least of the three, imo. But as “for the only thing he hasn’t got quite right”, are you serious? Some good players recruited you’re correct but... Do you think he got the CF right, 2 players in mid 30s only? Esp when he told us getting a good CF was a priority and it would be done. Do you think he’s got the discipline of the side right? It’s all proving pretty shameful isn’t it, the worst disciplinary record in the division. Do you think he’s got the defence right, we seem to flip flop between a back 3 and back 4? And how can you say “we only got 2 weeks of pre-season with a limited squad”? If we did then surely it’s JBs fault? He set the schedule. We do show more fight and determination (but not always in the right areas perhaps) and do appear fitter you’re correct. And something you didn’t mention he’s put some pace into the squad which has been good to see. And I prefer watching us this season in that we carry more threat. But to say he didn’t blame everyone he just told it as it was is putting an interpretation on it that you want. He blamed the players and he blamed the last two managers calling them negligent. Throw in Tommy W into the mix and I’d call that nearly everyone. Wouldn’t you, honestly? Sorry if this comes over as the post of a grumpy old git but I’m really just recovering from Tuesday which really left me jarred off. UTG! |
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Post by stapletongas on Dec 10, 2021 10:50:46 GMT
It was only a matter of time before we would have been cut adrift. We got battered 6-1 at Accrington. It wasnt that I didnt like Tisdale, he was just the wrong man for the job and that should have been obvious to everyone at interview. Not many players had much time for him come the end. I dont really remember Barton blaming everyone, he just told us how it was, which was that the players we had werent L1 standard (proven to be mostly correct bar 3 or 4), we had an attitude problem (mostly correct, none of the players look like they cared) and that all transfer windows had been mismanaged completely (absolutely correct). What Barton had to do was prove he didnt do any of the above himself. I think we all can agree that the team shows more fight and determination than what we have seen under either of the 2 managers, the fitness looks a whole lot sharper and we can last for 100 mins a game. The only thing he hasnt gotten quite right is the recruitment. We are short in a few areas and we have been dreadfully unlucky with injuries and with covid. We only got 2 weeks of pre-season in and most of that was with a limited squad. Pitman and Coutts for example didnt get one. 1981, I get your total dislike of Tis from the moment he was appointed and you’ve never stopped telling us! But he wasn’t given a chance was he? A real chance that is. But he’s gone and in the past and was there for less time than any other manager so his part in our demise is the least of the three, imo. But as “for the only thing he hasn’t got quite right”, are you serious? Some good players recruited you’re correct but... Do you think he got the CF right, 2 players in mid 30s only? Esp when he told us getting a good CF was a priority and it would be done. Do you think he’s got the discipline of the side right? It’s all proving pretty shameful isn’t it, the worst disciplinary record in the division. Do you think he’s got the defence right, we seem to flip flop between a back 3 and back 4? And how can you say “we only got 2 weeks of pre-season with a limited squad”? If we did then surely it’s JBs fault? He set the schedule. We do show more fight and determination (but not always in the right areas perhaps) and do appear fitter you’re correct. And something you didn’t mention he’s put some pace into the squad which has been good to see. And I prefer watching us this season in that we carry more threat. But to say he didn’t blame everyone he just told it as it was is putting an interpretation on it that you want. He blamed the players and he blamed the last two managers calling them negligent. Throw in Tommy W into the mix and I’d call that nearly everyone. Wouldn’t you, honestly? Sorry if this comes over as the post of a grumpy old git but I’m really just recovering from Tuesday which really left me jarred off. UTG! There is a massive inconsistency in the patience shown towards Tisdale and that of Barton. Tisdale should have been given longer |
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Post by woolavingtonpirate on Dec 10, 2021 11:55:13 GMT
For Tisdale to of been successful here, would of taken a complete overhaul of the club, from top to bottom. Without this change any manager we had, would of been on a hiding to nothing.
Re-Garner, I'd take Swindons position in the league but not the style of football. I'm not convinced they will sustain their position, especially with the fans on the managers back as it stands. Swindons home record is poor, and they are regularly being booed off. Considering how many rovers fans didn't like coughlans style of play, I doubt we would be ringing Garners praises if we were in Swindons position.
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Post by pirate on Dec 10, 2021 12:15:10 GMT
For Tisdale to of been successful here, would of taken a complete overhaul of the club, from top to bottom. Without this change any manager we had, would of been on a hiding to nothing. Re-Garner, I'd take Swindons position in the league but not the style of football. I'm not convinced they will sustain their position, especially with the fans on the managers back as it stands. Swindons home record is poor, and they are regularly being booed off. Considering how many rovers fans didn't like coughlans style of play, I doubt we would be ringing Garners praises if we were in Swindons position. Swindon's style of football looked ok when the played us off the pitch for 90 minutes and is regularly praised in the lower league podcasts I listen to. |
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Post by woolavingtonpirate on Dec 10, 2021 12:47:37 GMT
For Tisdale to of been successful here, would of taken a complete overhaul of the club, from top to bottom. Without this change any manager we had, would of been on a hiding to nothing. Re-Garner, I'd take Swindons position in the league but not the style of football. I'm not convinced they will sustain their position, especially with the fans on the managers back as it stands. Swindons home record is poor, and they are regularly being booed off. Considering how many rovers fans didn't like coughlans style of play, I doubt we would be ringing Garners praises if we were in Swindons position. Swindon's style of football looked ok when the played us off the pitch for 90 minutes and is regularly praised in the lower league podcasts I listen to. I thought we handed them the win that day. I do agree they looked OK, but they are a different team on their own patch. They know how to hit teams on the break but struggle when teams sit back themselves. It will be interesting to see where they end up and if they turn their home form around? They also have a target man, which is something we don't have. Personally speaking I prefer our style of play, i don't think we have the right players at the moment to carry it off, but think once we do get it right we will be good home and away. If JB does leave for whatever reason, I hope whoever is in charge can build on what he's started and not complety change the way we play. |
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Post by pirate on Dec 10, 2021 12:49:39 GMT
Swindon's style of football looked ok when the played us off the pitch for 90 minutes and is regularly praised in the lower league podcasts I listen to. I thought we handed them the win that day. I do agree they looked OK, but they are a different team on their own patch. They know how to hit teams on the break but struggle when teams sit back themselves. It will be interesting to see where they end up and if they turn their home form around? They also have a target man, which is something we don't have. Personally speaking I prefer our style of play, i don't think we have the right players at the moment to carry it off, but think once we do get it right we will be good home and away. If JB does leave for whatever reason, I hope whoever is in charge can build on what he's started and not complety change the way we play. Swindon 3rd most shots per game average in League Two, Rovers the 3rd worst. Swindon the 6th best Xg in League Two, Rovers the 3rd worst. |
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Post by woolavingtonpirate on Dec 10, 2021 13:05:15 GMT
I thought we handed them the win that day. I do agree they looked OK, but they are a different team on their own patch. They know how to hit teams on the break but struggle when teams sit back themselves. It will be interesting to see where they end up and if they turn their home form around? They also have a target man, which is something we don't have. Personally speaking I prefer our style of play, i don't think we have the right players at the moment to carry it off, but think once we do get it right we will be good home and away. If JB does leave for whatever reason, I hope whoever is in charge can build on what he's started and not complety change the way we play. Swindon 3rd most shots per game average in League Two, Rovers the 3rd worst. Swindon the 6th best Xg in League Two, Rovers the 3rd worst. I've got no idea what Xg is? If it's a form of stat? Then I know it can be manipulated to fit a remit. I'll put a spin on that then.. Swindon must be terrible at finishing if that's the case and rovers excellent! So all good for me! Im only going by the fact Swindon get booed off by their own fans at home, so it can't be that great can it? I just think there is real promise with our team, yes I'm not pleased with where we are in the league but I can see us getting stronger as the season goes on. Hopefully when we go to Swindon we will see a cracking game and we can judge the progress of the two sides then! |
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Post by pirate on Dec 10, 2021 13:16:12 GMT
Swindon 3rd most shots per game average in League Two, Rovers the 3rd worst. Swindon the 6th best Xg in League Two, Rovers the 3rd worst. I've got no idea what Xg is? If it's a form of stat? Then I know it can be manipulated to fit a remit. I'll put a spin on that then.. Swindon must be terrible at finishing if that's the case and rovers excellent! So all good for me! Im only going by the fact Swindon get booed off by their own fans at home, so it can't be that great can it? I just think there is real promise with our team, yes I'm not pleased with where we are in the league but I can see us getting stronger as the season goes on. Hopefully when we go to Swindon we will see a cracking game and we can judge the progress of the two sides then! Xg measures the quality of a chance by calculating the likelihood that it will be scored. No idea if Swindon have been booed off or not, but I have witnessed us getting booed off on a few occasions with particular nasty vitriol after Swindon and Orient played us off the pitch. You talk about Swindon's home for as if ours is anything to write home about - we've only picked up 3 more points at home, with Swindon having a game in hand. And Rovers are so "excellent" at finishing we regularly fail to beat teams that go down to 10 men. |
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Post by Tilly's Thighs on Dec 10, 2021 15:54:21 GMT
1981, I get your total dislike of Tis from the moment he was appointed and you’ve never stopped telling us! But he wasn’t given a chance was he? A real chance that is. But he’s gone and in the past and was there for less time than any other manager so his part in our demise is the least of the three, imo. But as “for the only thing he hasn’t got quite right”, are you serious? Some good players recruited you’re correct but... Do you think he got the CF right, 2 players in mid 30s only? Esp when he told us getting a good CF was a priority and it would be done. Do you think he’s got the discipline of the side right? It’s all proving pretty shameful isn’t it, the worst disciplinary record in the division. Do you think he’s got the defence right, we seem to flip flop between a back 3 and back 4? And how can you say “we only got 2 weeks of pre-season with a limited squad”? If we did then surely it’s JBs fault? He set the schedule. We do show more fight and determination (but not always in the right areas perhaps) and do appear fitter you’re correct. And something you didn’t mention he’s put some pace into the squad which has been good to see. And I prefer watching us this season in that we carry more threat. But to say he didn’t blame everyone he just told it as it was is putting an interpretation on it that you want. He blamed the players and he blamed the last two managers calling them negligent. Throw in Tommy W into the mix and I’d call that nearly everyone. Wouldn’t you, honestly? Sorry if this comes over as the post of a grumpy old git but I’m really just recovering from Tuesday which really left me jarred off. UTG! There is a massive inconsistency in the patience shown towards Tisdale and that of Barton. Tisdale should have been given longer Tisdale alienated a lot of the players in the short time he was with us, when he actually deigned to speak to them of course - the dressing room atmosphere was only going to get worse the longer he remained. Just don't think it was the right job for him. |
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Post by bobbyjones on Dec 10, 2021 16:05:56 GMT
There is a massive inconsistency in the patience shown towards Tisdale and that of Barton. Tisdale should have been given longer Tisdale alienated a lot of the players in the short time he was with us, when he actually deigned to speak to them of course - the dressing room atmosphere was only going to get worse the longer he remained. Just don't think it was the right job for him. But it is the right job for Barton then, is that what your saying? |
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pirate
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Post by pirate on Dec 10, 2021 16:09:31 GMT
There is a massive inconsistency in the patience shown towards Tisdale and that of Barton. Tisdale should have been given longer Tisdale alienated a lot of the players in the short time he was with us, when he actually deigned to speak to them of course - the dressing room atmosphere was only going to get worse the longer he remained. Just don't think it was the right job for him. And Barton didn't alienate the players in his short time with us? He slaughtered some of the players publicly and finished with the worst PPG out of all our managers last season. |
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Post by brfc on Dec 10, 2021 20:00:10 GMT
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Post by warehamgas on Dec 10, 2021 20:20:11 GMT
Good luck to him. He’ll have his work cut out to keep them in the National League. At least he’ll be able to recognise a good player! 😉
UTG!
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Post by Gas Go Marching In on Dec 10, 2021 20:38:34 GMT
Good luck to him. He’ll have his work cut out to keep them in the National League. At least he’ll be able to recognise a good player! 😉 UTG! He'll be managing Josh Barrett! |
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Post by warehamgas on Dec 10, 2021 22:17:38 GMT
Good luck to him. He’ll have his work cut out to keep them in the National League. At least he’ll be able to recognise a good player! 😉 UTG! He'll be managing Josh Barrett! I don’t think anyone managed Josh Barrett! Which is why he finds himself where he is. UTG! |
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