stuart1974
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Israel
Oct 23, 2023 21:20:42 GMT
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Post by stuart1974 on Oct 23, 2023 21:20:42 GMT
It’s classed as likely , which means it’s in the 55-75% range apparently Not great is it. I guess all our sophisticated tracking technology couldn't determine where the missile / whatever it was, originated from. But we can track a car and hit it on a sixpence. Different ways of doing those. It wouldn't surprise me if we did know to a greater certainty but divulging that would undermine the intelligence used to obtain it, such as informants. Either way, we've gone from a narrative of 'Isreal definitely murdered patients in a hospital' to 'maybe it wasn't'. We'll know more in the fullness of time, perhaps. I see suggestions of Isreal holding back on a ground invasion and Hamas saying they could release hostages if Isreal scale back its campaign. Seems sensible to me to reduce the bombing and see if Hamas really do what they say they will.
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Israel
Oct 24, 2023 18:27:50 GMT
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Post by gashead79 on Oct 24, 2023 18:27:50 GMT
Hey, I'm not qualified enough to say what a lawyer can and can't get away with saying live on TV. Take it as you will. Just mentioned it because she is an example of someone with the credentials to embarrass the BBC live on air with carefully delivered info. It's not the fact she is a lawyer. It's who she represents...that surely disqualifies her as an "unbiased" opinion. Doesn't it? Probably, although I'm not sure anyone is suggesting she is unbiased? Just that she is a law person and has to play by those rules without subjective influence. Personally I find it refreshing when presenters are held accountable for chatting sh**e. Whichever angle it comes from tbf.
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Israel
Oct 24, 2023 18:29:16 GMT
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Post by gashead79 on Oct 24, 2023 18:29:16 GMT
Have a read back through this thread . Or most threads on this part of the forum. 👍 I was looking for a specific example so that maybe we could drill into it a bit. No drama.
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Israel
Oct 25, 2023 10:51:31 GMT
Post by supergas on Oct 25, 2023 10:51:31 GMT
It’s classed as likely , which means it’s in the 55-75% range apparently Not great is it. I guess all our sophisticated tracking technology couldn't determine where the missile / whatever it was, originated from. But we can track a car and hit it on a sixpence. Who would be tracking it? Israel has a sophisticated but localised tracking system but many of the rockets fired by the various terrorist groups in the region are small (so hard to find on radar), have no trackable electronics and (if the theory is correct) this got nowhere near the border where their tracking is focused. Cars are 2m x 5m, this was probably more the size of a skateboard....
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Israel
Oct 25, 2023 13:06:37 GMT
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Post by oldie on Oct 25, 2023 13:06:37 GMT
Not great is it. I guess all our sophisticated tracking technology couldn't determine where the missile / whatever it was, originated from. But we can track a car and hit it on a sixpence. Who would be tracking it? Israel has a sophisticated but localised tracking system but many of the rockets fired by the various terrorist groups in the region are small (so hard to find on radar), have no trackable electronics and (if the theory is correct) this got nowhere near the border where their tracking is focused. Cars are 2m x 5m, this was probably more the size of a skateboard.... Fair enough. If you know the hardware and systems better than me, fair enough. Where did you acquire this knowledge?
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yattongas
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Israel
Oct 25, 2023 16:46:30 GMT
Post by yattongas on Oct 25, 2023 16:46:30 GMT
Who would be tracking it? Israel has a sophisticated but localised tracking system but many of the rockets fired by the various terrorist groups in the region are small (so hard to find on radar), have no trackable electronics and (if the theory is correct) this got nowhere near the border where their tracking is focused. Cars are 2m x 5m, this was probably more the size of a skateboard.... Fair enough. If you know the hardware and systems better than me, fair enough. Where did you acquire this knowledge? Qassam rockets by the looks of it , after a quick google. Bloody big skateboard!
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Israel
Oct 26, 2023 5:25:03 GMT
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Post by pirate1 on Oct 26, 2023 5:25:03 GMT
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Post by pirate1 on Oct 26, 2023 5:32:53 GMT
As of 25th October 6,734 Palestinians - including 2,812 children — have been killed by Israel and about 1,755 more people reported missing beneath the rubbles of demolished residential buildings. 150,000 buildings are completely or partially destroyed. Further, 103 health facilities, including 19 hospitals are affected, as well as 92 damaged schools, 36 damaged mosques, 3 damaged churches, 83 damaged press headquarters, 20 murdered journalists and 29 murdered UN staffers. There are 1,350,000 people displaced and 500,000+ taking refuge in UN schools and facilities. It was recently reported that "one child is killed every 15 minutes" by Israel during this genocide, according to Defence for Children International.
Ceasefire now. Stop the war crimes. Stop the genocide.
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Israel
Oct 26, 2023 6:57:58 GMT
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Post by francegas on Oct 26, 2023 6:57:58 GMT
As of 25th October 6,734 Palestinians - including 2,812 children — have been killed by Israel and about 1,755 more people reported missing beneath the rubbles of demolished residential buildings. 150,000 buildings are completely or partially destroyed. Further, 103 health facilities, including 19 hospitals are affected, as well as 92 damaged schools, 36 damaged mosques, 3 damaged churches, 83 damaged press headquarters, 20 murdered journalists and 29 murdered UN staffers. There are 1,350,000 people displaced and 500,000+ taking refuge in UN schools and facilities. It was recently reported that "one child is killed every 15 minutes" by Israel during this genocide, according to Defence for Children International. Ceasefire now. Stop the war crimes. Stop the genocide. If Hamas hadn't fired 1000s of Rockets into Israel, murdered over 1000 israelis in a day, murdered people enjoying a peaceful music festival, gone door to door shooting whole families taken hostages, paraded and spat upon murdered civilians etc etc then just maybe all of the above in your post wouldn't have happened.
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Post by oldie on Oct 26, 2023 7:05:39 GMT
As of 25th October 6,734 Palestinians - including 2,812 children — have been killed by Israel and about 1,755 more people reported missing beneath the rubbles of demolished residential buildings. 150,000 buildings are completely or partially destroyed. Further, 103 health facilities, including 19 hospitals are affected, as well as 92 damaged schools, 36 damaged mosques, 3 damaged churches, 83 damaged press headquarters, 20 murdered journalists and 29 murdered UN staffers. There are 1,350,000 people displaced and 500,000+ taking refuge in UN schools and facilities. It was recently reported that "one child is killed every 15 minutes" by Israel during this genocide, according to Defence for Children International. Ceasefire now. Stop the war crimes. Stop the genocide. If Hamas hadn't fired 1000s of Rockets into Israel, murdered over 1000 israelis in a day, murdered people enjoying a peaceful music festival, gone door to door shooting whole families taken hostages, paraded and spat upon murdered civilians etc etc then just maybe all of the above in your post wouldn't have happened. Of course. But is an eye for an eye justified?
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Israel
Oct 26, 2023 7:43:20 GMT
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eric likes this
Post by francegas on Oct 26, 2023 7:43:20 GMT
If Hamas hadn't fired 1000s of Rockets into Israel, murdered over 1000 israelis in a day, murdered people enjoying a peaceful music festival, gone door to door shooting whole families taken hostages, paraded and spat upon murdered civilians etc etc then just maybe all of the above in your post wouldn't have happened. Of course. But is an eye for an eye justified? In some instances I believe it is. Pirate is posting tweet after tweet about the devastation in Gaza but not one about the actions of Hamas against Israel. In one of his posts he even said it's not a fair war. He has also failed to state what a proportionate response by Israel would be instead he just states the response is disproportionate. What in your eyes should Israel have done?.....taken no action against the terrorist organisation that's bombing their country?
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Israel
Oct 26, 2023 7:45:24 GMT
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Post by gulfofaden on Oct 26, 2023 7:45:24 GMT
Fun observation: When I was a kid, the right wing, the far end of it were not particularly pro-Isreal. Today what some deem as the “far right” (people like Farage and Rees-Mogg, since the actual far right’s best turn out for a demo in 30 years is about 250 people and every side needs a bogeyman) are pro Isreal in this conflict.
The left, champion of women’s rights and equality, are pro Hamas and generally sympathetic to Islam.
I think at some point we have to concede that politics has very little to do with ideology and morality and more to do with tribalism.
Isreal was initially built on fairly socialist ideas. The kibbutz was a model which sprung out of 20th century progressivism and taken to Isreal by those leaving Europe. This does not make them good bedfellows with western conservatives.
Similarly, ultra-chauvinist iterations of Islam (most of it, worldwide with notable exceptions) is completely at odds with progressive ideas.
If a side won, they would immediately become enemies. Yet, the right back Isreal and the left Palestine broadly because they aids their fight against their real enemies.
It is quite amusing watching the left out pour support for doctrines which relegate women to 2nd class citizens and prescribe death to homosexuals, while the right wave isreali flags. Bonkers.
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Israel
Oct 26, 2023 8:06:07 GMT
Post by supergas on Oct 26, 2023 8:06:07 GMT
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Israel
Oct 26, 2023 8:09:06 GMT
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Post by oldie on Oct 26, 2023 8:09:06 GMT
Fun observation: When I was a kid, the right wing, the far end of it were not particularly pro-Isreal. Today what some deem as the “far right” (people like Farage and Rees-Mogg, since the actual far right’s best turn out for a demo in 30 years is about 250 people and every side needs a bogeyman) are pro Isreal in this conflict. The left, champion of women’s rights and equality, are pro Hamas and generally sympathetic to Islam. I think at some point we have to concede that politics has very little to do with ideology and morality and more to do with tribalism. Isreal was initially built on fairly socialist ideas. The kibbutz was a model which sprung out of 20th century progressivism and taken to Isreal by those leaving Europe. This does not make them good bedfellows with western conservatives. Similarly, ultra-chauvinist iterations of Islam (most of it, worldwide with notable exceptions) is completely at odds with progressive ideas. If a side won, they would immediately become enemies. Yet, the right back Isreal and the left Palestine broadly because they aids their fight against their real enemies. It is quite amusing watching the left out pour support for doctrines which relegate women to 2nd class citizens and prescribe death to homosexuals, while the right wave isreali flags. Bonkers. If that were true, it would be bonkers. Personally (therefore my limited experience) I have never met a muslim who supports the ideology of HAMAS, the Shi'a lunatics in Iran or the Wahabbis in Saudi. Quite the opposite in fact. You made me recall my last visit to Iran (2005, friends and family) I was in a car in Tehran and noticed a large mural on the side of a building. I asked my friend what that represented. His words. "Don't worry about that, it's just "those" people in Lebanon. Equally I have not spoken to one person here in the UK who supports HAMAS. Quite the opposite. I have heard a lot of sympathy for the plight of Palestinians, a plight which predates the current carnage. It is certainly not a question of left Vs right.
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Israel
Oct 26, 2023 8:11:33 GMT
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Post by oldie on Oct 26, 2023 8:11:33 GMT
I have to be honest. I did laugh at those links. Sorry.
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yattongas
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Post by yattongas on Oct 26, 2023 8:24:16 GMT
Fun observation: When I was a kid, the right wing, the far end of it were not particularly pro-Isreal. Today what some deem as the “far right” (people like Farage and Rees-Mogg, since the actual far right’s best turn out for a demo in 30 years is about 250 people and every side needs a bogeyman) are pro Isreal in this conflict. The left, champion of women’s rights and equality, are pro Hamas and generally sympathetic to Islam. I think at some point we have to concede that politics has very little to do with ideology and morality and more to do with tribalism. Isreal was initially built on fairly socialist ideas. The kibbutz was a model which sprung out of 20th century progressivism and taken to Isreal by those leaving Europe. This does not make them good bedfellows with western conservatives. Similarly, ultra-chauvinist iterations of Islam (most of it, worldwide with notable exceptions) is completely at odds with progressive ideas. If a side won, they would immediately become enemies. Yet, the right back Isreal and the left Palestine broadly because they aids their fight against their real enemies. It is quite amusing watching the left out pour support for doctrines which relegate women to 2nd class citizens and prescribe death to homosexuals, while the right wave isreali flags. Bonkers. I’ve seen quite a lot of pro Palestine stuff from those on the left but I’ve seen hardly any pro hamas stuff . Massive generalisation there.
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Israel
Oct 26, 2023 8:38:42 GMT
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Post by oldie on Oct 26, 2023 8:38:42 GMT
Fun observation: When I was a kid, the right wing, the far end of it were not particularly pro-Isreal. Today what some deem as the “far right” (people like Farage and Rees-Mogg, since the actual far right’s best turn out for a demo in 30 years is about 250 people and every side needs a bogeyman) are pro Isreal in this conflict. The left, champion of women’s rights and equality, are pro Hamas and generally sympathetic to Islam. I think at some point we have to concede that politics has very little to do with ideology and morality and more to do with tribalism. Isreal was initially built on fairly socialist ideas. The kibbutz was a model which sprung out of 20th century progressivism and taken to Isreal by those leaving Europe. This does not make them good bedfellows with western conservatives. Similarly, ultra-chauvinist iterations of Islam (most of it, worldwide with notable exceptions) is completely at odds with progressive ideas. If a side won, they would immediately become enemies. Yet, the right back Isreal and the left Palestine broadly because they aids their fight against their real enemies. It is quite amusing watching the left out pour support for doctrines which relegate women to 2nd class citizens and prescribe death to homosexuals, while the right wave isreali flags. Bonkers. I’ve seen quite a lot of pro Palestine stuff from those on the left but I’ve seen hardly any pro hamas stuff . Massive generalisation there. Personally I cannot imagine anyone on the Social Democratic Left supporting the demagogues in HAMAS. Sadly I can imagine the Nationalists on the Right supporting bloody and violent revenge inflicted on the general Palestinian in GAZA AND the West Bank. Each to their own I guess.
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Israel
Oct 26, 2023 8:45:36 GMT
Post by supergas on Oct 26, 2023 8:45:36 GMT
I have to be honest. I did laugh at those links. Sorry. It *is* a funny topic....
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Israel
Oct 26, 2023 9:02:34 GMT
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Post by trevorgas on Oct 26, 2023 9:02:34 GMT
Of course. But is an eye for an eye justified? In some instances I believe it is. Pirate is posting tweet after tweet about the devastation in Gaza but not one about the actions of Hamas against Israel. In one of his posts he even said it's not a fair war. He has also failed to state what a proportionate response by Israel would be instead he just states the response is disproportionate. What in your eyes should Israel have done?.....taken no action against the terrorist organisation that's bombing their country? Let's have a bit of balance and objectivity,no one I have seen on this forum has supported Hamas attack early this month. The route causes are complex,however,let's be clear Israeli settlers supported by the Israeli government have been forcibly evicting and murdering Palestinians on the West Bank for years,where I would ask is the protection for those Palestinians to be allowed to live and go about their lives without fear of being murdered and forced out of their homes?.
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yattongas
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Israel
Oct 26, 2023 9:05:03 GMT
Post by yattongas on Oct 26, 2023 9:05:03 GMT
I’ve seen quite a lot of pro Palestine stuff from those on the left but I’ve seen hardly any pro hamas stuff . Massive generalisation there. Personally I cannot imagine anyone on the Social Democratic Left supporting the demagogues in HAMAS. Sadly I can imagine the Nationalists on the Right supporting bloody and violent revenge inflicted on the general Palestinian in GAZA AND the West Bank. Each to their own I guess
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