pirate
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Post by pirate on Oct 30, 2024 12:33:39 GMT
All that money spent in the summer for a 0.05 increase in our average PPM. 😆 Where is the tangible improvement? The football Taylor is serving up is just as bad (if not worse) and the underlying data does him no favours either. How much more of this do we have to endure? View AttachmentSo who would you bring in to replace him? I’m not saying that it’s great but stats isn’t everything and there have been plenty of games where we’ve been competitive and its players individual and unexpected mistakes and naivety that have cost us… it was the boards instruction to go for younger inexperienced players with potential to try and do a Peterborough and whilst some can be placed on the Manager, the players have to take account for a lot… MT can’t be blamed for Forbes missing the cross last night that 99 times out of 100 he’d clear and Taylor can’t be blamed for Conor Taylor slipping not once but twice to let them score their 2nd and our season has been riddled with things like that… This constant Matt Taylor bashing is boring and so over the top … no one knows what he has to contend with and so many on here think they are gods gift to football management when all they have is a stats database … I don’t dispute the stats aren’t great but stats without context are meaningless and anyone can manipulate stats to support any agenda.. Matt Taylor is a human being in an extremely difficult job - he deserves better respect in my opinion than what he is being given I would delegate to the director of football (part of his remit?) who I would hope has a succession plan in place. IMHO it should be data-led and evidence-based approach for the style of play we want moving forwards and the right fit of manager to the players we already have in the building. The next manager needs to connect with the fans too, so needs to be given consideration. analyticsfc.co.uk/blog/2021/03/22/profiling-coaches-with-data/statsbomb.com/articles/soccer/the-right-way-to-hire-football-coaches/mrktinsights.com/index.php/2024/05/24/hiring-head-coaches-why-style-matters/ |
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Post by bluestickgas1 on Oct 30, 2024 12:33:50 GMT
So who would you bring in to replace him? I’m not saying that it’s great but stats isn’t everything and there have been plenty of games where we’ve been competitive and its players individual and unexpected mistakes and naivety that have cost us… it was the boards instruction to go for younger inexperienced players with potential to try and do a Peterborough and whilst some can be placed on the Manager, the players have to take account for a lot… MT can’t be blamed for Forbes missing the cross last night that 99 times out of 100 he’d clear and Taylor can’t be blamed for Conor Taylor slipping not once but twice to let them score their 2nd and our season has been riddled with things like that… This constant Matt Taylor bashing is boring and so over the top … no one knows what he has to contend with and so many on here think they are gods gift to football management when all they have is a stats database … I don’t dispute the stats aren’t great but stats without context are meaningless and anyone can manipulate stats to support any agenda.. Matt Taylor is a human being in an extremely difficult job - he deserves better respect in my opinion than what he is being given If we're relegated this summer MT will just walk away with a decent pay off, he won't careless what a few Gasheads felt about him. Do you think he’s paid that well in comparison? He would get a payout only if he is sacked and what about his mental health and well being? How do you think it feels to have so much crap shouted, written and said about you constantly every day when all you are trying to do is the best of your ability in the circumstances you’ve been given and when 99.99% of the people criticising have no idea or clue about how to run, manage and operate a football club. People have a right to question and be critical but be respectful about it - no one knows what he has to put up with and deal with day in day out and this constant hounding, over the top vitriol is completely unacceptable in my opinion…. Put yourself (not aimed directly at you) in his shoes and see how you’d like it… just like the disgraceful abuse our players have received recently and highlighted by Shaq… sit back and think - it’s unfair, unjust, unnecessary and unacceptable - just like it would be if it was you or I on the receiving end. These are people earning a living and doing a job as best they can. They’re young and inexperienced in the main and they all need our support not constant crap as no one improves or gets better if all you’re continually told is that you’re rubbish… how does that help motivate you to want to do your best… Again not aimed at you but there are so many on here who need to take a good look at themselves and their own self righteous egotistical attitudes and take some time to think and grow up …. There are others who claim to be ITK yet are so unaware and full of bull it’s unreal - the make things up to pretend that they have some special insight or relationships to make themselves look big and special and to serve their own ego and agenda…. |
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Post by bluestickgas1 on Oct 30, 2024 12:42:18 GMT
So who would you bring in to replace him? I’m not saying that it’s great but stats isn’t everything and there have been plenty of games where we’ve been competitive and its players individual and unexpected mistakes and naivety that have cost us… it was the boards instruction to go for younger inexperienced players with potential to try and do a Peterborough and whilst some can be placed on the Manager, the players have to take account for a lot… MT can’t be blamed for Forbes missing the cross last night that 99 times out of 100 he’d clear and Taylor can’t be blamed for Conor Taylor slipping not once but twice to let them score their 2nd and our season has been riddled with things like that… This constant Matt Taylor bashing is boring and so over the top … no one knows what he has to contend with and so many on here think they are gods gift to football management when all they have is a stats database … I don’t dispute the stats aren’t great but stats without context are meaningless and anyone can manipulate stats to support any agenda.. Matt Taylor is a human being in an extremely difficult job - he deserves better respect in my opinion than what he is being given I would delegate to the director of football (part of his remit?) who I would hope has a succession plan in place. IMHO it should be data-led and evidence-based approach for the style of play we want moving forwards and the right fit of manager to the players we already have in the building. The next manager needs to connect with the fans too, so needs to be given consideration. analyticsfc.co.uk/blog/2021/03/22/profiling-coaches-with-data/statsbomb.com/articles/soccer/the-right-way-to-hire-football-coaches/mrktinsights.com/index.php/2024/05/24/hiring-head-coaches-why-style-matters/So you don’t necessarily have a suggestion… Yes, any appointment should be based upon evidence, experience, qualifications and personality and also the ability to work with the team in place across the whole set up and within the construct of the business…. That doesn’t guarantee success though as someone could be successful in one environment and completely fail in another - there are numerous examples of managers like this …. What you are basically asking for is a rare rare breed and almost impossible to find… There is no simple answer and sometimes it takes time for people to settle, adjust, for their ideas to implement and for them to be able to fully create success - look at Ferguson at Utd and opposite with Ten Haag and Pottechino as well as Mourinho who has been successful in some places and poor others…. There isn’t a simple answer here and no stats database will get it right in isolation |
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pirate
Forum Legend
Posts: 19,434
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Post by pirate on Oct 30, 2024 13:20:00 GMT
So you don’t necessarily have a suggestion… Yes, any appointment should be based upon evidence, experience, qualifications and personality and also the ability to work with the team in place across the whole set up and within the construct of the business…. That doesn’t guarantee success though as someone could be successful in one environment and completely fail in another - there are numerous examples of managers like this …. What you are basically asking for is a rare rare breed and almost impossible to find… There is no simple answer and sometimes it takes time for people to settle, adjust, for their ideas to implement and for them to be able to fully create success - look at Ferguson at Utd and opposite with Ten Haag and Pottechino as well as Mourinho who has been successful in some places and poor others…. There isn’t a simple answer here and no stats database will get it right in isolation I could suggest several names that have impressed, but whether they would consider a role or even be the right fit is another matter. I don't have access to the type of information the DoF has. Robbie Keane would be perfect in terms of style and personality, but having had success in Israel I think that ship has sailed. As a free agent I would still pose the question as the worst that can happen is a no. A fellow Irishman in Damien Duff is doing a great job at Shelbourne, but with them one win from winning the league title I doubt his next move would he to us, but stranger things have happened. Stephen Schumacher and Ryan Lowe both mentioned on here by others and worth consideration, as I'm sure plenty of others are. I would exhaust all avenues and leave no stone unturned in this country, non-league, abroad, I don't care where, but should led by the data and evidence that fits the parameters outlined by the owners and DoF. There are no guarantees of course, but you can be guided to make better decisions. |
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Oct 30, 2024 15:00:16 GMT
Announce the owners son to take charge for the rest of the season on an interim basis.
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Post by bluestickgas1 on Oct 30, 2024 15:05:28 GMT
So you don’t necessarily have a suggestion… Yes, any appointment should be based upon evidence, experience, qualifications and personality and also the ability to work with the team in place across the whole set up and within the construct of the business…. That doesn’t guarantee success though as someone could be successful in one environment and completely fail in another - there are numerous examples of managers like this …. What you are basically asking for is a rare rare breed and almost impossible to find… There is no simple answer and sometimes it takes time for people to settle, adjust, for their ideas to implement and for them to be able to fully create success - look at Ferguson at Utd and opposite with Ten Haag and Pottechino as well as Mourinho who has been successful in some places and poor others…. There isn’t a simple answer here and no stats database will get it right in isolation I could suggest several names that have impressed, but whether they would consider a role or even be the right fit is another matter. I don't have access to the type of information the DoF has. Robbie Keane would be perfect in terms of style and personality, but having had success in Israel I think that ship has sailed. As a free agent I would still pose the question as the worst that can happen is a no. A fellow Irishman in Damien Duff is doing a great job at Shelbourne, but with them one win from winning the league title I doubt his next move would he to us, but stranger things have happened. Stephen Schumacher and Ryan Lowe both mentioned on here by others and worth consideration, as I'm sure plenty of others are. I would exhaust all avenues and leave no stone unturned in this country, non-league, abroad, I don't care where, but should led by the data and evidence that fits the parameters outlined by the owners and DoF. There are no guarantees of course, but you can be guided to make better decisions. Valid points but in reality I doubt Keane and Duff would come to us not only because of their success but because of their expected salary and profile - that’s my personal opinion…. Schumacher is only rumoured to be a target for Burton because of their financial position and wealth and whilst I agree Ryan Lowe could be good, again I don’t think he’d come to us - with the exception of Plymouth, he’s always been around the north west in his career and at Plymouth it was when they put large investment into returning to League 1 and a move from a more financially challenged Bury who were likely to struggle after promotion. I think we both agree that getting the right manager in to replace Taylor would need to be seriously thought through and considered and be informed by data, testimonies, performance, personality, experience, qualifications etc but I don’t believe there really is any credible candidates out their who are obtainable and would meet the brief as described… As you say, there are no guarantees in football and just because someone is and has been successful somewhere else doesn’t mean they’ll be successful with us. Taylor was successful at Exeter but not at Rotherham and so far with us it’s been meh although I’m judging on this season rather than including last as the whole thing was broken when he came in in so many ways and even Pep wouldn’t have managed to get a tune out of us ….. I personally think there have been shoots of promise and our biggest challenge is the naivety of our team, the inconsistency in games and between games and some sheer bad luck - much of what you expect with a brand new very young squad (that was the instruction from the board)… I believe that given time and with more support from the terraces things will turn around and my expectations for this season has always been to be a mid table side - it’s next season and the one after where I think we’ll be much more competitive and a playoff/top 3 challenging team… I could be completely wrong and happy to be told so if it doesn’t turn out this way but I just think we should give MT some time and cut him some slack… |
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Post by lastminutewinner on Oct 30, 2024 15:49:32 GMT
Robbie Fowler applied previously didn't he, I wonder if he would still be interested? We need a new scouse mafia to moan about.
Not sure id want to risk the job on him, but his name would attract players and earn respect for what he achieved as a footballer at least
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Post by eric on Oct 30, 2024 16:13:29 GMT
Robbie Fowler applied previously didn't he, I wonder if he would still be interested? We need a new scouse mafia to moan about. Not sure id want to risk the job on him, but his name would attract players and earn respect for what he achieved as a footballer at least I’m surprised John Terry hasn’t applied for or been linked to jobs at our level. He did his badges and served an apprenticeship as No.2 at Villa so thought that manager at EFL level would be his next step. Could have a lot to offer? |
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Post by lastminutewinner on Oct 30, 2024 16:33:32 GMT
Robbie Fowler applied previously didn't he, I wonder if he would still be interested? We need a new scouse mafia to moan about. Not sure id want to risk the job on him, but his name would attract players and earn respect for what he achieved as a footballer at least I’m surprised John Terry hasn’t applied for or been linked to jobs at our level. He did his badges and served an apprenticeship as No.2 at Villa so thought that manager at EFL level would be his next step. Could have a lot to offer? He could have, as long as its not to the players wives/GF's  ...dont want another Sam Slocombe incident |
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Post by lastminutewinner on Oct 30, 2024 16:37:21 GMT
a PNE fan I know thinks Alex Neal would be a good shout if MT gets the bullet
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Post by Topper Gas on Oct 30, 2024 16:41:57 GMT
I could suggest several names that have impressed, but whether they would consider a role or even be the right fit is another matter. I don't have access to the type of information the DoF has. Robbie Keane would be perfect in terms of style and personality, but having had success in Israel I think that ship has sailed. As a free agent I would still pose the question as the worst that can happen is a no. A fellow Irishman in Damien Duff is doing a great job at Shelbourne, but with them one win from winning the league title I doubt his next move would he to us, but stranger things have happened. Stephen Schumacher and Ryan Lowe both mentioned on here by others and worth consideration, as I'm sure plenty of others are. I would exhaust all avenues and leave no stone unturned in this country, non-league, abroad, I don't care where, but should led by the data and evidence that fits the parameters outlined by the owners and DoF. There are no guarantees of course, but you can be guided to make better decisions. Valid points but in reality I doubt Keane and Duff would come to us not only because of their success but because of their expected salary and profile - that’s my personal opinion…. Schumacher is only rumoured to be a target for Burton because of their financial position and wealth and whilst I agree Ryan Lowe could be good, again I don’t think he’d come to us - with the exception of Plymouth, he’s always been around the north west in his career and at Plymouth it was when they put large investment into returning to League 1 and a move from a more financially challenged Bury who were likely to struggle after promotion. I think we both agree that getting the right manager in to replace Taylor would need to be seriously thought through and considered and be informed by data, testimonies, performance, personality, experience, qualifications etc but I don’t believe there really is any credible candidates out their who are obtainable and would meet the brief as described… As you say, there are no guarantees in football and just because someone is and has been successful somewhere else doesn’t mean they’ll be successful with us. Taylor was successful at Exeter but not at Rotherham and so far with us it’s been meh although I’m judging on this season rather than including last as the whole thing was broken when he came in in so many ways and even Pep wouldn’t have managed to get a tune out of us ….. I personally think there have been shoots of promise and our biggest challenge is the naivety of our team, the inconsistency in games and between games and some sheer bad luck - much of what you expect with a brand new very young squad (that was the instruction from the board)… I believe that given time and with more support from the terraces things will turn around and my expectations for this season has always been to be a mid table side - it’s next season and the one after where I think we’ll be much more competitive and a playoff/top 3 challenging team… I could be completely wrong and happy to be told so if it doesn’t turn out this way but I just think we should give MT some time and cut him some slack… Regarding the no suitable candidates, assuming they are prepared to consider moving to Bristol, then Lowe, Schumacher, Ainsworth & Critchley are all available at present. |
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Post by Topper Gas on Oct 30, 2024 16:43:06 GMT
a PNE fan I know thinks Alex Neal would be a good shout if MT gets the bullet Alex Neal is continually linked with Championship jobs? |
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Post by lastminutewinner on Oct 30, 2024 16:57:49 GMT
a PNE fan I know thinks Alex Neal would be a good shout if MT gets the bullet Alex Neal is continually linked with Championship jobs? Then he must be pretty good then you reckon Topper? |
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Post by gingerandwhitegas on Oct 30, 2024 17:05:25 GMT
Valid points but in reality I doubt Keane and Duff would come to us not only because of their success but because of their expected salary and profile - that’s my personal opinion…. Schumacher is only rumoured to be a target for Burton because of their financial position and wealth and whilst I agree Ryan Lowe could be good, again I don’t think he’d come to us - with the exception of Plymouth, he’s always been around the north west in his career and at Plymouth it was when they put large investment into returning to League 1 and a move from a more financially challenged Bury who were likely to struggle after promotion. I think we both agree that getting the right manager in to replace Taylor would need to be seriously thought through and considered and be informed by data, testimonies, performance, personality, experience, qualifications etc but I don’t believe there really is any credible candidates out their who are obtainable and would meet the brief as described… As you say, there are no guarantees in football and just because someone is and has been successful somewhere else doesn’t mean they’ll be successful with us. Taylor was successful at Exeter but not at Rotherham and so far with us it’s been meh although I’m judging on this season rather than including last as the whole thing was broken when he came in in so many ways and even Pep wouldn’t have managed to get a tune out of us ….. I personally think there have been shoots of promise and our biggest challenge is the naivety of our team, the inconsistency in games and between games and some sheer bad luck - much of what you expect with a brand new very young squad (that was the instruction from the board)… I believe that given time and with more support from the terraces things will turn around and my expectations for this season has always been to be a mid table side - it’s next season and the one after where I think we’ll be much more competitive and a playoff/top 3 challenging team… I could be completely wrong and happy to be told so if it doesn’t turn out this way but I just think we should give MT some time and cut him some slack… Regarding the no suitable candidates, assuming they are prepared to consider moving to Bristol, then Lowe, Schumacher, Ainsworth & Critchley are all available at present. Neil Critchley appointed head coach of Hearts  |
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pirate
Forum Legend
Posts: 19,434
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Post by pirate on Oct 30, 2024 17:28:15 GMT
Valid points but in reality I doubt Keane and Duff would come to us not only because of their success but because of their expected salary and profile - that’s my personal opinion…. Schumacher is only rumoured to be a target for Burton because of their financial position and wealth and whilst I agree Ryan Lowe could be good, again I don’t think he’d come to us - with the exception of Plymouth, he’s always been around the north west in his career and at Plymouth it was when they put large investment into returning to League 1 and a move from a more financially challenged Bury who were likely to struggle after promotion. I think we both agree that getting the right manager in to replace Taylor would need to be seriously thought through and considered and be informed by data, testimonies, performance, personality, experience, qualifications etc but I don’t believe there really is any credible candidates out their who are obtainable and would meet the brief as described… As you say, there are no guarantees in football and just because someone is and has been successful somewhere else doesn’t mean they’ll be successful with us. Taylor was successful at Exeter but not at Rotherham and so far with us it’s been meh although I’m judging on this season rather than including last as the whole thing was broken when he came in in so many ways and even Pep wouldn’t have managed to get a tune out of us ….. I personally think there have been shoots of promise and our biggest challenge is the naivety of our team, the inconsistency in games and between games and some sheer bad luck - much of what you expect with a brand new very young squad (that was the instruction from the board)… I believe that given time and with more support from the terraces things will turn around and my expectations for this season has always been to be a mid table side - it’s next season and the one after where I think we’ll be much more competitive and a playoff/top 3 challenging team… I could be completely wrong and happy to be told so if it doesn’t turn out this way but I just think we should give MT some time and cut him some slack… Regarding the no suitable candidates, assuming they are prepared to consider moving to Bristol, then Lowe, Schumacher, Ainsworth & Critchley are all available at present.  |
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Post by bluestickgas1 on Oct 30, 2024 17:44:16 GMT
Valid points but in reality I doubt Keane and Duff would come to us not only because of their success but because of their expected salary and profile - that’s my personal opinion…. Schumacher is only rumoured to be a target for Burton because of their financial position and wealth and whilst I agree Ryan Lowe could be good, again I don’t think he’d come to us - with the exception of Plymouth, he’s always been around the north west in his career and at Plymouth it was when they put large investment into returning to League 1 and a move from a more financially challenged Bury who were likely to struggle after promotion. I think we both agree that getting the right manager in to replace Taylor would need to be seriously thought through and considered and be informed by data, testimonies, performance, personality, experience, qualifications etc but I don’t believe there really is any credible candidates out their who are obtainable and would meet the brief as described… As you say, there are no guarantees in football and just because someone is and has been successful somewhere else doesn’t mean they’ll be successful with us. Taylor was successful at Exeter but not at Rotherham and so far with us it’s been meh although I’m judging on this season rather than including last as the whole thing was broken when he came in in so many ways and even Pep wouldn’t have managed to get a tune out of us ….. I personally think there have been shoots of promise and our biggest challenge is the naivety of our team, the inconsistency in games and between games and some sheer bad luck - much of what you expect with a brand new very young squad (that was the instruction from the board)… I believe that given time and with more support from the terraces things will turn around and my expectations for this season has always been to be a mid table side - it’s next season and the one after where I think we’ll be much more competitive and a playoff/top 3 challenging team… I could be completely wrong and happy to be told so if it doesn’t turn out this way but I just think we should give MT some time and cut him some slack… Regarding the no suitable candidates, assuming they are prepared to consider moving to Bristol, then Lowe, Schumacher, Ainsworth & Critchley are all available at present. I’ve already said that I don’t believe either Lowe or Schumacher would come (Schumacher wants Championship and will eventually get it again unless it’s a ‘big club’ with strong chance of promotion and Lowe has pretty much always been North West based except Plymouth and that was financial and circumstantial low paying and likely relegation candidates Bury to high paying and promotion candidates Plymouth to protect his CV)…. Ainsworth is a functional long ball manager so won’t suit players here or fans desires (just look at Coughlan) and Critchley is at Hearts… so I maintain that there isn’t any real suitable candidates available at present and I can’t see us paying compo for someone when things aren’t anywhere near as bad as being made out…. |
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Post by bluestickgas1 on Oct 30, 2024 17:48:12 GMT
Regarding the no suitable candidates, assuming they are prepared to consider moving to Bristol, then Lowe, Schumacher, Ainsworth & Critchley are all available at present. Analytics is important but not the only thing that is needed…. I work with data and analytics every day and it gives an indication but only tells a partial story which is why the credentials and testimonials are so so important along with understanding the experience and qualifications etc are just as equally if not more important |
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pirate
Forum Legend
Posts: 19,434
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Post by pirate on Oct 30, 2024 18:02:07 GMT
Analytics is important but not the only thing that is needed…. I work with data and analytics every day and it gives an indication but only tells a partial story which is why the credentials and testimonials are so so important along with understanding the experience and qualifications etc are just as equally if not more important It's part of a process alongside the things you mention. The data can help identify where to look, but it doesn't tell you who to pick. |
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Post by Topper Gas on Oct 30, 2024 18:06:04 GMT
Regarding the no suitable candidates, assuming they are prepared to consider moving to Bristol, then Lowe, Schumacher, Ainsworth & Critchley are all available at present. I’ve already said that I don’t believe either Lowe or Schumacher would come (Schumacher wants Championship and will eventually get it again unless it’s a ‘big club’ with strong chance of promotion and Lowe has pretty much always been North West based except Plymouth and that was financial and circumstantial low paying and likely relegation candidates Bury to high paying and promotion candidates Plymouth to protect his CV)…. Ainsworth is a functional long ball manager so won’t suit players here or fans desires (just look at Coughlan) and Critchley is at Hearts… so I maintain that there isn’t any real suitable candidates available at present and I can’t see us paying compo for someone when things aren’t anywhere near as bad as being made out…. Unless we were in the bottom 4 how could things be much worse? Just because we can't list suitable candidates doesn't mean there are none available, Critchley was available until he got the Hearts job recently, there must be others. |
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Post by bluestickgas1 on Oct 30, 2024 18:13:25 GMT
Analytics is important but not the only thing that is needed…. I work with data and analytics every day and it gives an indication but only tells a partial story which is why the credentials and testimonials are so so important along with understanding the experience and qualifications etc are just as equally if not more important It's part of a process alongside the things you mention. The data can help identify where to look, but it doesn't tell you who to pick. Completely agree… |
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...dont want another Sam Slocombe incident
