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Post by Topper Gas on Oct 7, 2024 17:45:57 GMT
A lot of the time Arsenal and Man City play with center backs, as full backs. Or the full backs invert into midfield. Full backs used to over lap, when wingers played on the side of their strongest foot. So that's not a new thing. They used to both provide the width, but now the game is played more in the middle of the pitch and it takes 100 passes before a goal at timesš¤£ The best sides cope, as they have more of the ball, so they have time to move around. I can see the principal behind it at the top of the game, with a creative midfield. But a lot of the clubs are trying to copy, when they don't have the players to do it. Then it's easier for the defence, as you are just making the pitch smaller. Pointless, unless you have players taking their place, when they cut inside. When Pulis was their manager, Stoke used to select 4 central defenders; no full-backs. It also helps with a bit more presence at set-pieces.
Moore - Taylor - Wilson - Mola
You would then probably have Hunt right-wing and Sousa left wing to help clog things up in the middle.
Wasn't that the back line MT played once Forde replaced Bilingo in the second half? Although Moore & Mola can play as FB's if they want to anyway. |
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yattongas
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Post by yattongas on Oct 7, 2024 18:04:33 GMT
Donāt agree with this at all. He flatters to deceive most of the time and his finishing is woeful. Love his work rate, seen him chase back to help out a struggling defence more than once this season. Also seen him in quiet moments but it would help if the midfield could find him, or anyone for that matter. Yeah , not disputing his work rate and defensively he helps out as well. Itās just his forward play I find a little disappointing and he doesnāt score enough or set up enough goals for me. pirate will probably have the stats to say Iām talking nonsense but thatās just what I think when watching him. |
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Post by igotgas on Oct 7, 2024 18:27:47 GMT
Thereās no doubting his talent and Iām not sure itās anything to do with the position. For me itās very much about how we set up and how heās made to feel. You can be asked to play a WB role in an attacking manner
If heās made to feel like heās a liability and made to feel like heās unable to take a risk then heāll gradually lose confidence and belief in himself.
Players like this donāt and canāt react to the same type of managing as āregularā playersā¦and by regular I mean your Wards / Molas / Lindsayās etc whose games are based on effort and doing the basics well. These ātypesā need to feel like they can get it wrong in order to be brave enough to get it right.
Itās no surprise to me that Evans form dropped off under Taylor, Jevani was shipped out, Macca isnāt trusted and LT is in and out and being asked to play a sq peg in a round hole type role.
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Post by eric on Oct 7, 2024 18:35:55 GMT
Luxury player that simply hasn't produced enough wherever he's played, defended well early in the season though. Said he needed to sit a few games out after the Wycombe match and we've won 2 in 2 since, so can't say he's been missed. I think we have played him in his natural position only about 10 times which is outside striker like Collins was or ACM. Hes not a winger, a wing back or full back. A wingback needs to be a powerful athlete providing the attacking width in a side. LT always looks to cut inside on to his stronger foot which totally defeats the object. It makes no sense on any level to play him there. IMO he should be playing in the same type of areas where Foden and Palmer play - either the wide right attacking position cutting in or as the number 10 (both positions in a 4-2-3-1). Like Iāve said many times heās our most naturally gifted player and itās a failing of MT if he cannot get the best out of him. It would help if we had a group of players with better movement - canāt be easy to be a creative midfielder at Rovers when you look up and your teammates are stood like statues marking the opposition centre backs!! |
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Post by baggins on Oct 7, 2024 18:39:15 GMT
Love his work rate, seen him chase back to help out a struggling defence more than once this season. Also seen him in quiet moments but it would help if the midfield could find him, or anyone for that matter. Yeah , not disputing his work rate and defensively he helps out as well. Itās just his forward play I find a little disappointing and he doesnāt score enough or set up enough goals for me. pirate will probably have the stats to say Iām talking nonsense but thatās just what I think when watching him. All about opinions chap. For instance, reckon we should send Griffiths home and bring Ward back. |
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Post by eric on Oct 7, 2024 18:40:11 GMT
Thereās no doubting his talent and Iām not sure itās anything to do with the position. For me itās very much about how we set up and how heās made to feel. You can be asked to play a WB role in an attacking manner If heās made to feel like heās a liability and made to feel like heās unable to take a risk then heāll gradually lose confidence and belief in himself. Players like this donāt and canāt react to the same type of managing as āregularā playersā¦and by regular I mean your Wards / Molas / Lindsayās etc whose games are based on effort and doing the basics well. These ātypesā need to feel like they can get it wrong in order to be brave enough to get it right. Itās no surprise to me that Evans form dropped off under Taylor, Jevani was shipped out, Macca isnāt trusted and LT is in and out and being asked to play a sq peg in a round hole type role. Even a negative S Housery expert like Neil Warnock knew how to accommodate a talent. Adel Taarabt probably had his best season when managed properly by him. I canāt see MT being able to do that or even have any interest in wanting to. LT just doesnāt strike me as his sort of player. Very sad. |
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Post by Topper Gas on Oct 7, 2024 18:40:31 GMT
Thereās no doubting his talent and Iām not sure itās anything to do with the position. For me itās very much about how we set up and how heās made to feel. You can be asked to play a WB role in an attacking manner If heās made to feel like heās a liability and made to feel like heās unable to take a risk then heāll gradually lose confidence and belief in himself. Players like this donāt and canāt react to the same type of managing as āregularā playersā¦and by regular I mean your Wards / Molas / Lindsayās etc whose games are based on effort and doing the basics well. These ātypesā need to feel like they can get it wrong in order to be brave enough to get it right. Itās no surprise to me that Evans form dropped off under Taylor, Jevani was shipped out, Macca isnāt trusted and LT is in and out and being asked to play a sq peg in a round hole type role. Evans clearly decided he was off this summer so hardly surprising his form dropped and JB was utterly useless all the time he was with us, whereas he thrived under MT at Exeter, it doesn't look like he's doing any better at Notts C, as he was an unused sub on Saturday even though they lost 1-0 at home, Macca gets plenty of game time but I can't see he's done enough to start a game. Forde seems to be doing OK under MT in a similar role to LT. Let's see how all the fringe players get on tomorrow as they should be easily beating a struggling Swindon. |
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Post by igotgas on Oct 7, 2024 18:52:08 GMT
Thereās no doubting his talent and Iām not sure itās anything to do with the position. For me itās very much about how we set up and how heās made to feel. You can be asked to play a WB role in an attacking manner If heās made to feel like heās a liability and made to feel like heās unable to take a risk then heāll gradually lose confidence and belief in himself. Players like this donāt and canāt react to the same type of managing as āregularā playersā¦and by regular I mean your Wards / Molas / Lindsayās etc whose games are based on effort and doing the basics well. These ātypesā need to feel like they can get it wrong in order to be brave enough to get it right. Itās no surprise to me that Evans form dropped off under Taylor, Jevani was shipped out, Macca isnāt trusted and LT is in and out and being asked to play a sq peg in a round hole type role. Evans clearly decided he was off this summer so hardly surprising his form dropped and JB was utterly useless all the time he was with us, whereas he thrived under MT at Exeter, it doesn't look like he's doing any better at Notts C, as he was an unused sub on Saturday even though they lost 1-0 at home, Macca gets plenty of game time but I can't see he's done enough to start a game. Forde seems to be doing OK under MT in a similar role to LT. Let's see how all the fringe players get on tomorrow as they should be easily beating a struggling Swindon.Ā Ā You have absolutely no evidence whatsoever that Evans decided he was off and turned it in, other than your own perception of a situation. Itās nonsense. I donāt believe a player..any playerā¦but particularly an ambitious 24 year old would decide he just fancies a move and stops trying. Itās such a stereotypical terrace assumption it makes me laugh. Has it occurred that in order to get a move playing well was in his own interests š¤·āāļø Perhaps JB thrived in spite of? Maybe he just had a good spell? Maybe he was just at a different juncture in his career. The bottom line is though that once MT was here he was clearly f*cked and wasnāt offered much of if any opportunity this pre season to make a fresh start. Thatās a waste reallyā¦.although granted he is possibly just as culpable on that waste and anyone else. Macca gets plenty of minutes yes, but little or no continuity and he clearly has no trust in him or what he offers. I agree on what we see in matches he hasnāt done enough but for my money he has been better than Soturiou and heās had lots of opportunity and continuity. As for Fordeā¦.talk about just bending the truth to suit a narrative! He managed to score Saturday but has done little or nothing under MT (and has had even more limited minutes than LT or Macca!!) to suggest heās getting anything more out of him than he has any of the others mentioned above or (dare I say it) Hutchinson! The fact is, the evidence points to the fact that it looks like MT really struggles to know how to handle or how to get the best out of what we might call āflairā players, much preferring a Bilongo who by his own admission heads it and gallops! |
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Post by socrates on Oct 7, 2024 19:23:44 GMT
I think his best position is the Bodin role on the right of a 433 or 4231 but I also think heās a lower league 1 player with potential to be better but has never got there.
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Post by Topper Gas on Oct 7, 2024 19:45:09 GMT
Evans clearly decided he was off this summer so hardly surprising his form dropped and JB was utterly useless all the time he was with us, whereas he thrived under MT at Exeter, it doesn't look like he's doing any better at Notts C, as he was an unused sub on Saturday even though they lost 1-0 at home, Macca gets plenty of game time but I can't see he's done enough to start a game. Forde seems to be doing OK under MT in a similar role to LT. Let's see how all the fringe players get on tomorrow as they should be easily beating a struggling Swindon. You have absolutely no evidence whatsoever that Evans decided he was off and turned it in, other than your own perception of a situation. Itās nonsense. I donāt believe a player..any playerā¦but particularly an ambitious 24 year old would decide he just fancies a move and stops trying. Itās such a stereotypical terrace assumption it makes me laugh. Has it occurred that in order to get a move playing well was in his own interests š¤·āāļø Perhaps JB thrived in spite of? Maybe he just had a good spell? Maybe he was just at a different juncture in his career. The bottom line is though that once MT was here he was clearly f*cked and wasnāt offered much of if any opportunity this pre season to make a fresh start. Thatās a waste reallyā¦.although granted he is possibly just as culpable on that waste and anyone else. Macca gets plenty of minutes yes, but little or no continuity and he clearly has no trust in him or what he offers. I agree on what we see in matches he hasnāt done enough but for my money he has been better than Soturiou and heās had lots of opportunity and continuity. As for Fordeā¦.talk about just bending the truth to suit a narrative! He managed to score Saturday but has done little or nothing under MT (and has had even more limited minutes than LT or Macca!!) to suggest heās getting anything more out of him than he has any of the others mentioned above or (dare I say it) Hutchinson! The fact is, the evidence points to the fact that it looks like MT really struggles to know how to handle or how to get the best out of what we might call āflairā players, much preferring a Bilongo who by his own admission heads it and gallops! Who are the first team "flair" players? Sinclair, Sortiriou, Forde, Thomas, Ward, Hutch, possibly bot no real idea re McCormick, assuming that's the list Sinclair, Sortiriou & Ward all play regularly, Forde is used as an impact sub with Thomas & Hutch seem out of form/out of favour and nobody seems to get anything out of McC but at the moment MT is probably getting more than either JB or AM as at least he's not continually injured, one thing that nobody mentions is MT and his support team are getting more out of Hunt, Ward, Wilson and McCormick than JB ever managed. |
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Post by igotgas on Oct 7, 2024 19:57:40 GMT
Good pivot there mate š nothing like a redirect when you dont like the line of questioning š¤£
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Post by daniel300380 on Oct 7, 2024 20:06:06 GMT
Thereās no doubting his talent and Iām not sure itās anything to do with the position. For me itās very much about how we set up and how heās made to feel. You can be asked to play a WB role in an attacking manner If heās made to feel like heās a liability and made to feel like heās unable to take a risk then heāll gradually lose confidence and belief in himself. Players like this donāt and canāt react to the same type of managing as āregularā playersā¦and by regular I mean your Wards / Molas / Lindsayās etc whose games are based on effort and doing the basics well. These ātypesā need to feel like they can get it wrong in order to be brave enough to get it right. Itās no surprise to me that Evans form dropped off under Taylor, Jevani was shipped out, Macca isnāt trusted and LT is in and out and being asked to play a sq peg in a round hole type role. Evans form dropped after we sold Collins and Thomas and anyone else with pace seemed to be injured at the same time. The other team pushed up the field and got right on Martin, as we had no one running in behind. So Evans had limited options, in front of him. |
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Post by Topper Gas on Oct 7, 2024 20:09:37 GMT
Good pivot there mate š nothing like a redirect when you dont like the line of questioning š¤£ It was a response to your last paragraph? You clearly have issues with MT as virtually every post now follows the same line of attack, it'll be interesting to see what you have to post tomorrow if your favourite Hutch starts and, hopefully, plays well. |
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Post by gashead79 on Oct 7, 2024 20:12:54 GMT
Evans clearly decided he was off this summer so hardly surprising his form dropped and JB was utterly useless all the time he was with us, whereas he thrived under MT at Exeter, it doesn't look like he's doing any better at Notts C, as he was an unused sub on Saturday even though they lost 1-0 at home, Macca gets plenty of game time but I can't see he's done enough to start a game. Forde seems to be doing OK under MT in a similar role to LT. Let's see how all the fringe players get on tomorrow as they should be easily beating a struggling Swindon.Ā Ā You have absolutely no evidence whatsoever that Evans decided he was off and turned it in, other than your own perception of a situation. Itās nonsense. I donāt believe a player..any playerā¦but particularly an ambitious 24 year old would decide he just fancies a move and stops trying. Itās such a stereotypical terrace assumption it makes me laugh. Has it occurred that in order to get a move playing well was in his own interests š¤·āāļø Perhaps JB thrived in spite of? Maybe he just had a good spell? Maybe he was just at a different juncture in his career. The bottom line is though that once MT was here he was clearly f*cked and wasnāt offered much of if any opportunity this pre season to make a fresh start. Thatās a waste reallyā¦.although granted he is possibly just as culpable on that waste and anyone else. Macca gets plenty of minutes yes, but little or no continuity and he clearly has no trust in him or what he offers. I agree on what we see in matches he hasnāt done enough but for my money he has been better than Soturiou and heās had lots of opportunity and continuity. As for Fordeā¦.talk about just bending the truth to suit a narrative! He managed to score Saturday but has done little or nothing under MT (and has had even more limited minutes than LT or Macca!!) to suggest heās getting anything more out of him than he has any of the others mentioned above or (dare I say it) Hutchinson! The fact is, the evidence points to the fact that it looks like MT really struggles to know how to handle or how to get the best out of what we might call āflairā players, much preferring a Bilongo who by his own admission heads it and gallops! Aaron Collins definitely stopped playing. Unsure of his reasons but he definitely wrapped his t1ts in. |
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Post by igotgas on Oct 7, 2024 20:35:33 GMT
Good pivot there mate š nothing like a redirect when you dont like the line of questioning š¤£ It was a response to your last paragraph? You clearly have issues with MT as virtually every post now follows the same line of attack, it'll be interesting to see what you have to post tomorrow if your favourite Hutch starts and, hopefully, plays well.Ā Yeah you only ever pick one paragraph. Which leads me to think you probably agree with the the rest of posts but seem unable or incapable of actually saying āyeah good pointā or āI agree with that partā. You find it much much easier to pick on a personal opinion than you do discuss the actual nuances of football. You say I attackā¦.ill say I dont think heās my type of managerā¦based on what Iāve seen and how weāve played under him and how individuals have performed or not, and Iāll make my points articulately and critically as I see it. As for my āfavouriteā Jesus, grow up š¤£ Iāll watch tomorrow. I may even attend. If I do Iāll give my thoughts just as most others will and if I disagree, Iāll say why and if someone disagrees with me, thatās fineā¦.weāll discuss it for a bit and then agree I was right š¤£š |
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Post by Topper Gas on Oct 7, 2024 20:58:44 GMT
Evans clearly decided he was off this summer so hardly surprising his form dropped and JB was utterly useless all the time he was with us, whereas he thrived under MT at Exeter, it doesn't look like he's doing any better at Notts C, as he was an unused sub on Saturday even though they lost 1-0 at home, Macca gets plenty of game time but I can't see he's done enough to start a game. Forde seems to be doing OK under MT in a similar role to LT. Let's see how all the fringe players get on tomorrow as they should be easily beating a struggling Swindon. You have absolutely no evidence whatsoever that Evans decided he was off and turned it in, other than your own perception of a situation. Itās nonsense. I donāt believe a player..any playerā¦but particularly an ambitious 24 year old would decide he just fancies a move and stops trying. Itās such a stereotypical terrace assumption it makes me laugh. Has it occurred that in order to get a move playing well was in his own interests š¤·āāļø Perhaps JB thrived in spite of? Maybe he just had a good spell? Maybe he was just at a different juncture in his career. The bottom line is though that once MT was here he was clearly f*cked and wasnāt offered much of if any opportunity this pre season to make a fresh start. Thatās a waste reallyā¦.although granted he is possibly just as culpable on that waste and anyone else. Macca gets plenty of minutes yes, but little or no continuity and he clearly has no trust in him or what he offers. I agree on what we see in matches he hasnāt done enough but for my money he has been better than Soturiou and heās had lots of opportunity and continuity. As for Fordeā¦.talk about just bending the truth to suit a narrative! He managed to score Saturday but has done little or nothing under MT (and has had even more limited minutes than LT or Macca!!) to suggest heās getting anything more out of him than he has any of the others mentioned above or (dare I say it) Hutchinson! The fact is, the evidence points to the fact that it looks like MT really struggles to know how to handle or how to get the best out of what we might call āflairā players, much preferring a Bilongo who by his own admission heads it and gallops! Evans said he had offers from Championship clubs, once they came in he was never going to stay at Rovers, I doubt any player is going to give 100% at our level once they know a career defining transfer is in the offering, particularly when our season has clearly run it's course. No manager has started LM so does that mean none of them like flair players, I can't see LM is an obvious replacement for RS as ones and out and out striker the other more an ACM. Forde at least did OK on Saturday, LT hasn't done a great deal since the early season games, for whatever reasons MT doesn't seem to rate Hutch perhaps like me he's frustrated by the fact that he seems unable to match the physical side of L1. JB tried to play with a load of footballers but then when we went to places like Wycombe we could compete, MT seems to be going for a more physical approach, or he has done in his last couple of games, I personally can't see that's a bad move as long as he doesn't go full blown with GC type football. |
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Post by igotgas on Oct 7, 2024 21:36:26 GMT
Evans said he had offers from Championship clubs, once they came in he was never going to stay at Rovers, I doubt any player is going to give 100% at our level once they know a career defining transfer is in the offering, particularly when our season has clearly run it's course. I donāt believe Evans had offers from Championship clubs or else why on earth would that have happened only to then sign for a league 1 clubā¦.unless of course the only actual championship offer he had was from Huddersfield prior to relegation being confirmed? Thats possible I guess but Iād hardly call that career defining? Iām not sure how many big clubs wouldāve been in. Heās a tidy footballer but McCormack out scored him and out assisted him for AFC whilst getting relegated in 2021!! So as Iāve said numerous times people have a very romantic picture of just how good he wasā¦.. No manager has started LM so does that mean none of them like flair players, I can't see LM is an obvious replacement for RS as ones and out and out striker the other more an ACM Macca had his share of injuries so that may be a little unfair. But I donāt disagree and again Iāve said it several times I havenāt seen anything this season / pre season to justify just how many opportunities heās had so far this season other than fans getting carried away with āpressingā when all Iāve seen his someone chasing crisp packets in the wind. However, Ruel has actually started the last two games as a ACM and Macca has been used as a forward more often than not from the bench! Ruel had been the major let down in my eyes and yet heās been afforded more time and been viewed more favourably by the manager and the fans than any of his performances have deserved. His last two games as a 10 have been little short of atrocious in terms of output in that role. Forde at least did OK on Saturday, LT hasn't done a great deal since the early season games, for whatever reasons MT doesn't seem to rate Hutch perhaps like me he's frustrated by the fact that he seems unable to match the physical side of L1 Forde did okā¦.just like Macca did ok scoring v Peterborough once the game was overā¦im not sure either has done anything to get too excited about just yet and the manager doesnāt really seem to know where or how to play either of them. The same goes for LT who I agree has been pretty poor and imo that includes pre and early season. My argument is the manager has struggled to set a team up that gets the best out of the talent he has and Iām many cases the talent he signed. In Hutchinsons case (you brought him up š) the manager has managed to create a situation whereby fans perceptions are being formed on the evidence of what the manager has done rather than what theyāve seen in the actual games. He was far from magical but as Iāve said with a Chris Martin up front and a slightly more composed finish himself he takes 2 goals and 3 assists from his 4 league appearances! In total heās played the equivalent of less than three games! My feeling is simply having invested in him he needed to play him rather than ignore him. From what Iāve seen heās a player we could with if we can get him playing. JB tried to play with a load of footballers but then when we went to places like Wycombe we could compete, MT seems to be going for a more physical approach, or he has done in his last couple of games, I personally can't see that's a bad move as long as he doesn't go full blown with GC type football.Ā Agree with that completely. But itās very short termist and it has a shelf life once you play anyone whoās any good. Charlton rolled over, Burton fell apart from the seams and Cambridge who are awful. 3 of our wins have been against the bottom 5 two of whom havenāt won a game all season. Itās not a recipe for ongoing success but accept it may be a good short term solution to getting goingā¦. See we can play nice and discuss footballā¦.i often agree with much of what you sayā¦š |
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