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Post by mftc on Oct 20, 2024 11:20:25 GMT
I think as a club we want the Garner type - you get young players improve them, sell them plan but then don't give them time and then switch to the Joey "buy us promotion" plan, before reverting back to the MT get younger players etc.
We can't keep changing. Let's have a plan and stick to it.
I don't understand why no one said it is a 3-4 year plan with the following targets;
Year One - avoid relegation
Year Two - Top Half / Top Ten
Year 3 - Play offs
Year4 - Promotion
Instead new signing optimism set us up for a fall. I think I predicted 15-18 this season and I think we are better than the bottom 5.
Yes the football has not been very good and I would not be surprised if Taylor has to go, but if he does, let's not make wholesale changes in philosophy and at the January window at a massive cost. Let's give the players the time to improve.
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Post by BishopstonBRFC on Oct 20, 2024 11:27:05 GMT
Yeah if we keep swapping managers every 12 months chances are we will be back in L2 before long. Eventually we’re gonna have to stick with something. Problem is once the fans are calling for the manager’s heard during the game it becomes difficult to keep him.
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Oct 20, 2024 11:28:24 GMT
I'm not sure where else to post this, from the many threads giving Taylor a kicking but this seems as good a place as any.
Chop and change is something Taylor has done every game and I'd love for him to stop doing that, have a bit more belief in what he and the players are capable of and just go for it.
There have been several games now where following 4 or 5 changes, the breaks come off and we look to have the beating of any side. So often though we are already 2 or 3 goals down before this happens.
We are a real Jekyll and Hyde team where we seem to be set up ultra defensive (which we are utterly crap at) because the manager or players are terrified of losing or we are a free flowing front foot team who like to pour forward (even yesterday we played well for about 10 mins).
The constant chopping and changing is killing us.
I'd love to see Taylor just let the breaks off and have the team play. We may still lose but that's happening anyway.
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Post by returngas on Oct 20, 2024 12:04:15 GMT
I think as a club we want the Garner type - you get young players improve them, sell them plan but then don't give them time and then switch to the Joey "buy us promotion" plan, before reverting back to the MT get younger players etc. We can't keep changing. Let's have a plan and stick to it. I don't understand why no one said it is a 3-4 year plan with the following targets; Year One - avoid relegation Year Two - Top Half / Top Ten Year 3 - Play offs Year4 - Promotion Instead new signing optimism set us up for a fall. I think I predicted 15-18 this season and I think we are better than the bottom 5. Yes the football has not been very good and I would not be surprised if Taylor has to go, but if he does, let's not make wholesale changes in philosophy and at the January window at a massive cost. Let's give the players the time to improve. I agree. Listening to MT he seems to have given up on the development strategy and from what I read some have even been exiled to a separate training group. |
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Post by Topper Gas on Oct 20, 2024 12:33:28 GMT
I'm not sure where else to post this, from the many threads giving Taylor a kicking but this seems as good a place as any. Chop and change is something Taylor has done every game and I'd love for him to stop doing that, have a bit more belief in what he and the players are capable of and just go for it. There have been several games now where following 4 or 5 changes, the breaks come off and we look to have the beating of any side. So often though we are already 2 or 3 goals down before this happens. We are a real Jekyll and Hyde team where we seem to be set up ultra defensive (which we are utterly crap at) because the manager or players are terrified of losing or we are a free flowing front foot team who like to pour forward (even yesterday we played well for about 10 mins). The constant chopping and changing is killing us. I'd love to see Taylor just let the breaks off and have the team play. We may still lose but that's happening anyway. Problem is MT seems to be fighting to keep his job, so trying to gain as many points as possible must be his main aim. That being the case it seems, like he also did towards the end of last season, he's had to abandon trying to bring on the youngsters and revert to the senior pros. As far as the OP it's not even clear how long the owners intend staying around let alone our long term philosophy for the club, if they aren't even turning up to watch games then what are they actually getting for their £3m+ outlay each year? I doubt telling their business associates they own a struggling L1 side costing them £m's p.a. is a great thing to discuss at business meetings etc. |
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Post by Topper Gas on Oct 20, 2024 12:35:53 GMT
I think as a club we want the Garner type - you get young players improve them, sell them plan but then don't give them time and then switch to the Joey "buy us promotion" plan, before reverting back to the MT get younger players etc. We can't keep changing. Let's have a plan and stick to it. I don't understand why no one said it is a 3-4 year plan with the following targets; Year One - avoid relegation Year Two - Top Half / Top Ten Year 3 - Play offs Year4 - Promotion Instead new signing optimism set us up for a fall. I think I predicted 15-18 this season and I think we are better than the bottom 5. Yes the football has not been very good and I would not be surprised if Taylor has to go, but if he does, let's not make wholesale changes in philosophy and at the January window at a massive cost. Let's give the players the time to improve. I agree. Listening to MT he seems to have given up on the development strategy and from what I read some have even been exiled to a separate training group. That sounds nonsense looking at yesterday's bench as the only youngster missing was Shaw. |
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Post by igotgas on Oct 20, 2024 12:35:59 GMT
MT has tried to create a culture whereby it’s competitive and playing well individually results in retaining your place. There’s nothing wrong with that as such but it seems to me that through lack of real conviction it’s actually resulted in impatience and chopping and changing individuals when they were either a) adjusting and finding their feet or b) contributing to being a greater sum of the parts.
The first 4 games weren’t stunning by any means but there was a degree of consistency to the selections and the process but by the time we lost to Stockport there were already rumblings of “he’s not good enough”, “he’s young and makes mistakes” and there was a definite feeling from the fans as well as the staff that they had to keep tweaking things like there was some magic formula to be found through the middle of the pitch.
The formula was to show some patience and build something.
I said early on it had the feeling that it was getting messy. Things were changing too often which was leading perception to feel like some individuals were to blame for a result over anything else.
They weren’t and the fact is as a squad we should reasonably expect to beat the poor teams, pick up consistent results against teams around us and nick the odd win against the big boys.
I always think that if expectations exceed outcome you have a problem whereas if outcome exceeds expectations you have a happy club! It’s the expectation that changes the mood….the outcome is the outcome.
I would bet my back side that if MT was given the chance to go back to post Stockport he’d do things differently and he’d look to keep things less random and messy.
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Post by gasheadontour on Oct 20, 2024 12:43:12 GMT
Opposition teams tend to back-off once they are 3-0 ahead.
I think excessive fitness and injuries have forced more chop and change than would normally be expected.
Given injuries, fitness, young players, new players etc it will take longer to gel.
I think MT is trying to give everyone the opertunity of match time.
Playing wing-backs in the lower leagues rarely results in success.
We don't seem to be dominant at anything in particular so difficult to play to our strengths.
MT is probably very worried about his job particularly as he has a young family.
I think MT should go 4 at the back, so to help reduce the confusion about where players are supposed to be.
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Post by gasify on Oct 20, 2024 13:04:41 GMT
MT has tried to create a culture whereby it’s competitive and playing well individually results in retaining your place. There’s nothing wrong with that as such but it seems to me that through lack of real conviction it’s actually resulted in impatience and chopping and changing individuals when they were either a) adjusting and finding their feet or b) contributing to being a greater sum of the parts. The first 4 games weren’t stunning by any means but there was a degree of consistency to the selections and the process but by the time we lost to Stockport there were already rumblings of “he’s not good enough”, “he’s young and makes mistakes” and there was a definite feeling from the fans as well as the staff that they had to keep tweaking things like there was some magic formula to be found through the middle of the pitch. The formula was to show some patience and build something. I said early on it had the feeling that it was getting messy. Things were changing too often which was leading perception to feel like some individuals were to blame for a result over anything else. They weren’t and the fact is as a squad we should reasonably expect to beat the poor teams, pick up consistent results against teams around us and nick the odd win against the big boys. I always think that if expectations exceed outcome you have a problem whereas if outcome exceeds expectations you have a happy club! It’s the expectation that changes the mood….the outcome is the outcome. I would bet my back side that if MT was given the chance to go back to post Stockport he’d do things differently and he’d look to keep things less random and messy. Welcome back Mr Buckle. 🤣 We can have both ambition and expectation. It's the time line that is the problem. In this modern world, everyone wants everything right now. Problem is, it takes time. These are young players that do need to be protected. I genuinely feel that MT has tried to take the pressure onto his shoulders, rather than the players. Unfortunately the patience of the fickle Rovers fans just doesn't allow for slow progress. |
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Post by igotgas on Oct 20, 2024 13:36:25 GMT
Well that’s exactly what I’ve said.
Expectations (now) are exceeding outcomes (now).
As you say, people may well have expectations for where they want us to be in a year, two years, three years time but the fact is they aren’t prepared for the inevitable ups and downs of progress on the journey to the eventual outcome that they want…they want it now and bumps on the roads are just always seen as so terminal.
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Post by peterparker on Oct 20, 2024 14:08:57 GMT
I'm not sure where else to post this, from the many threads giving Taylor a kicking but this seems as good a place as any. Chop and change is something Taylor has done every game and I'd love for him to stop doing that, have a bit more belief in what he and the players are capable of and just go for it. There have been several games now where following 4 or 5 changes, the breaks come off and we look to have the beating of any side. So often though we are already 2 or 3 goals down before this happens. We are a real Jekyll and Hyde team where we seem to be set up ultra defensive (which we are utterly crap at) because the manager or players are terrified of losing or we are a free flowing front foot team who like to pour forward (even yesterday we played well for about 10 mins). The constant chopping and changing is killing us. I'd love to see Taylor just let the breaks off and have the team play. We may still lose but that's happening anyway. Problem is MT seems to be fighting to keep his job, so trying to gain as many points as possible must be his main aim. That being the case it seems, like he also did towards the end of last season, he's had to abandon trying to bring on the youngsters and revert to the senior pros. As far as the OP it's not even clear how long the owners intend staying around let alone our long term philosophy for the club, if they aren't even turning up to watch games then what are they actually getting for their £3m+ outlay each year? I doubt telling their business associates they own a struggling L1 side costing them £m's p.a. is a great thing to discuss at business meetings etc. The club either have to back Taylor (and some fans will have to accept it) because they think he is the right bloke or just get on and sack him. It feels inevitable he is going so wasting 2 or 3 games where we pick up 3 points or something just to sack him then is... If they allegedly have a list of names according to someone on twitter, get on with it and put Taylor out of his misery. He is clearly fighting against the tide now and unless we somehow strung 5 or 6 wins on the bounce he is always looking over his shoulder |
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Post by eric on Oct 20, 2024 18:44:51 GMT
Yeah if we keep swapping managers every 12 months chances are we will be back in L2 before long. Eventually we’re gonna have to stick with something. Problem is once the fans are calling for the manager’s heard during the game it becomes difficult to keep him. I don’t think anyone wants us to be a side that are constantly changing managers (we all crave success and consistency) but keeping MT in his job for no other reason than to break that cycle just seems madness to me. He’s lost the confidence of most of the fans and seems to have lost the confidence of his players. His tactics and selections look a mess and falling attendances will not go un-noticed by the owners who are already trying to address annual losses. Getting shot of him is just a matter of time imo but my main concern going forward is that who within the club can we have any confidence in to choose a replacement? Is there anyway we can outsource the recruitment and let them present their recommendation to the owner? It didn’t quite work out for England years ago when Keegan replaced Hoddle but the FA asked Jimmy Armfield to speak to interested parties and get opinions from other respected people in the game. I prefer the idea of someone with a record in professional football to be involved than just a twerp from the boardroom who knows nothing about football. |
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Post by roadman on Oct 20, 2024 18:54:38 GMT
Problem is MT seems to be fighting to keep his job, so trying to gain as many points as possible must be his main aim. That being the case it seems, like he also did towards the end of last season, he's had to abandon trying to bring on the youngsters and revert to the senior pros. As far as the OP it's not even clear how long the owners intend staying around let alone our long term philosophy for the club, if they aren't even turning up to watch games then what are they actually getting for their £3m+ outlay each year? I doubt telling their business associates they own a struggling L1 side costing them £m's p.a. is a great thing to discuss at business meetings etc. The club either have to back Taylor (and some fans will have to accept it) because they think he is the right bloke or just get on and sack him. It feels inevitable he is going so wasting 2 or 3 games where we pick up 3 points or something just to sack him then is... If they allegedly have a list of names according to someone on twitter, get on with it and put Taylor out of his misery. He is clearly fighting against the tide now and unless we somehow strung 5 or 6 wins on the bounce he is always looking over his shoulder If we continue to back Taylor it’s at the risk of the business losing further money. I’ve always said, what you do away from home doesn’t matter, it’s what you serve up at home. Under Cogs we were top 6 and still getting average gates, I don’t see this manager ever playing good football at home or uniting the fan base behind him personally. I watched Liverpool earlier, Slot had the biggest shoes to fill ever, Anfield was rocking today and noted by Carragher after the game. Staying with MT is us finishing 19th to 12th, gates of 6,000 and a toxic atmosphere. I never want us to lose but I’m pragmatic and look at the bigger picture in October, a defeat to Shrews and him sacked would do everyone a favour, I feel the manager is expecting it as well. We’d still have a chunk of the season left to play for, he’s not getting the best out of one single individual player, he hasn’t since he’s been here. Sorry, as I type, Wilson is motivated again but he’s 35 soon. |
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Post by mrgasman on Oct 20, 2024 18:56:10 GMT
I think as a club we want the Garner type - you get young players improve them, sell them plan but then don't give them time and then switch to the Joey "buy us promotion" plan, before reverting back to the MT get younger players etc. We can't keep changing. Let's have a plan and stick to it. I don't understand why no one said it is a 3-4 year plan with the following targets; Year One - avoid relegation Year Two - Top Half / Top Ten Year 3 - Play offs Year4 - Promotion Instead new signing optimism set us up for a fall. I think I predicted 15-18 this season and I think we are better than the bottom 5. Yes the football has not been very good and I would not be surprised if Taylor has to go, but if he does, let's not make wholesale changes in philosophy and at the January window at a massive cost. Let's give the players the time to improve. I completely agree 💯. |
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