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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2015 17:59:05 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2015 18:13:19 GMT
That's a nice wide target.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2015 18:19:32 GMT
The only problem is that we haven't got any planes to go on it, and it is not fitted with a catapault, so we are stuck with buying the F35, which apparently is not very good and is years away from being ready ! I've read the F35 won't be ready until 2020 at the very earliest !
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Post by baggins on Jun 15, 2015 19:05:20 GMT
Could build a stadium out of that.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2015 19:24:30 GMT
We'd have to change the words to Irene. No more throwing yourself into the river....it'll have to be throwing yourself into the sea !
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Post by baggins on Jun 15, 2015 19:26:25 GMT
We'd have to change the words to Irene. No more throwing yourself into the river....it'll have to be throwing yourself into the sea ! And how much was this thing?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2015 19:37:10 GMT
Um...quite a bit of dosh, but in my opinion it was money that had to be spent......and 'thing'? Tis a work of art !
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Post by baggins on Jun 15, 2015 19:57:56 GMT
Um...quite a bit of dosh, but in my opinion it was money that had to be spent......and 'thing'? Tis a work of art ! It's a work of art that costs a fortune and won't work till its out of date. Great. Why we need any of this when we have a direct line to the Yanks is beyond me.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2015 0:33:43 GMT
reminds me of the time i went for a slash in the wedt stand at half time and ended up stood next to Leadbitter.... lets just say i know how HMS illustrious feels...
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2015 0:43:06 GMT
Nobby does the f35 lightning have vertical take off capabiities? I know the f22 is too large for a carrier but i saw these at the fairford show a couple of years back and was blown away by the sheer power and speed. Imense!
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Post by inee on Jun 17, 2015 9:33:38 GMT
That is bloody lush, but in my mind is too big, could have built 2 smaller carriers and a heavily armoured country busting destroyer, on something that big will the captain be in effective control, as it's been muted that on board US large ships the captain has limited control below decks
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2015 12:31:28 GMT
That is bloody lush, but in my mind is too big, could have built 2 smaller carriers and a heavily armoured country busting destroyer, on something that big will the captain be in effective control, as it's been muted that on board US large ships the captain has limited control below decks I spent some time on a large US Carrier (USS America I think!). Basically, it's a floating city. From memory, they have their own tv station, radio station etc. From top to bottom there was something like 15 decks ! The guy attached to us to show us around had served on the ship for two years and not once had he ever been onto the flight deck. It's impossible for the Capt to control what goes on below decks. The place is just too big. That's where delegation and the Chain of Command comes in ! Inee - We have the new Type 45 Destroyers, and they are the dogs borrux.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2015 12:37:50 GMT
Nobby does the f35 lightning have vertical take off capabiities? I know the f22 is too large for a carrier but i saw these at the fairford show a couple of years back and was blown away by the sheer power and speed. Imense! We are buying the F35-C variant. This is designed for carrier use. Vertical take off is not really any good for a carrier based aircraft as it drastically reduces the range of the aircraft, plus it greatly reduces the weapon carrying capability.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2015 14:16:03 GMT
Nobby does the f35 lightning have vertical take off capabiities? I know the f22 is too large for a carrier but i saw these at the fairford show a couple of years back and was blown away by the sheer power and speed. Imense! We are buying the F35-C variant. This is designed for carrier use. Vertical take off is not really any good for a carrier based aircraft as it drastically reduces the range of the aircraft, plus it greatly reduces the weapon carrying capability. Good stuff.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2015 15:26:12 GMT
Well.....it is and it isn't. The F35 is going to be the most expensive aircraft ever built, and there is a lot of speculation that it 'doesn't do what it should do' ! The failure to build Catapaults on both the carriers mean that much cheaper aircraft, like the F18, cannot be used on them. We are stuck with the very expensive and totally unproven F35, and the very earliest we'll get some is 2020, as long as there are no more delays in the project !
How much does each aircraft cost?
"The F-35 Joint Strike Fighter is the most expensive, and possible the most error ridden, project in the history of the United States military. But DOD has sunk so much money into the F-35 — which is expected to cost $1.5 trillion over the 55-year life of the program — that the Pentagon deemed it "too big to fail" in 2010.
Now, the Air Force has taken steps to make sure that the unmitigated disaster that the F-35 has become does not happen again.
The Air Force, in its 20-year strategic forecast entitled "America's Air Force: A Call to the Future," has called for an end to big-ticket programs like the F-35. Instead, it plans to invest in what DOD officials have called more "agile" weapons that can be adapted for multiple uses.
The report paints a future of the Air Force that resembles an innovative 21st Century company as opposed to a traditional fighting force. The document says that it's now impossible for the United States to build a strategy advantage with large, expensive programs that take years — in the case of the F-35, 14 years and counting to complete.
"We believe rapid change is the new norm and has serious implications for the Air Force," the document states. "The pace at which disruptive technologies may appear and proliferate will result in operational advantages that are increasingly short-lived. Dynamic and increasingly frequent shifts in the geopolitical power balance will have significant implications for basing, posture, and partner capabilities that may favor flexibility over footprint."
The F-35 isn't mentioned by name in the forecast, but the program's greasy fingerprints are all over it. The Air Force is apparently concerned that it is pricing itself out of the weapons market because it is spending so much time and money on large programs.
"Agility is the counterweight to the uncertainty of the future and its associated rapid rate of change. We learned from sequestration that our brittle system often leads to suboptimal decisions that are difficult to reverse," the document reads. "Huge, long-term programs limit our options; we are too often left with 'all or nothing' outcomes and 'double or nothing' budget decisions."
"Large, complex programs with industrial-era development cycles measured in decades may become obsolete before they reach full-rate production," the authors added. "The system is cumbersome, as the cost and complexity of these large programs draw additional layers of oversight and scrutiny."
Read MoreFleet of military tanks up for auction
The strategy shift is also a recognition of the shrinking budget environment at DOD, which is expected to lose $600 billion over the next decade. According to the Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments, the change is also a reflection of compensation for members of the Air Force rising dramatically over the last 16 years.
More than anything, the shift in strategy is an indictment of the way that the Air Force and the rest of DOD have been doing business for years. The F-35 has come to symbolize all that's wrong with American defense spending: uncontrolled bloat, unaccountable manufacturers (in this case, Lockheed Martin), and an internal Pentagon culture that cannot adequately track taxpayer dollars.
It's no small irony that on the same day the change in Air Force strategy was revealed, Winslow Wheeler, a staff member at the Project On Government Oversight and a long-time critic of the F-35 program, reported that American taxpayers will pay between will pay between $148 million and $337 million per jet in 2015, depending on the model.
"A single Air Force F-35A costs a whopping $148 million. One Marine Corps F-35B costs an unbelievable $251 million. A lone Navy F-35C costs a mind-boggling $337 million. Average the three models together, and a 'generic' F-35 costs $178 million," Wheeler wrote.
"It gets worse. These are just the production costs. Additional expenses for research, development, test and evaluation are not included," he added.
Of course, this price tag is up dramatically from 2014.
"The cost of an F-35B grew from $232 million in 2014 to a bulging $251 million by 2015," Wheeler wrote. "The cost of the Navy's F35C grew from $273 million in 2014 to a wallet-busting $337 million by 2015."
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Post by EssoBlue on Jun 17, 2015 16:51:19 GMT
Wasn't it an RAF decision to get rid of the Navy/RAF Harrier's so they could keep the Tornado? Dirty politics that are intended to kill off Naval fixed wing capability!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2015 17:17:10 GMT
Wasn't it an RAF decision to get rid of the Navy/RAF Harrier's so they could keep the Tornado? Dirty politics that are intended to kill off Naval fixed wing capability! I don't think it was an RAF decision, more like a bean counter at the MOD. The Navy Sea Harrier was a different beast to the RAF Harrier. The result is that currently, the British Fleet is entirely dependent on the US for air cover, and that, given our history, is really quite shocking. In truth, the Sea Harrier didn't offer much protection, but it was better than nothing.
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