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Post by Gas-Ed on Jul 22, 2015 21:10:50 GMT
Am I the only one who thinks this thread should end here? Politics and football just don't mix. It's always going to end in a fall-out, especially something as delicate as this.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2015 21:13:03 GMT
Politics and football just don't mix. Politics mixes with everything I'm afraid. |
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Post by Gas-Ed on Jul 22, 2015 21:15:57 GMT
Politics and football just don't mix. Politics mixes with everything I'm afraid. I should have said politics and football forums. |
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Post by Dr Gas on Jul 22, 2015 21:42:00 GMT
 He most certainly did turn his back to it, but never mind he's happy enough paying thousands of pounds a week to the Her Majesty's Treasury  To me, the number 10 seems to be more disrespectful, as he turns more than the player I assume is McLean (I have never heard of him before) and appears to spit. However, I could well be wrong n my assumption as I am just reading things from a picture and without any written or verbal proof, or a picture from a better viewpoint, I cannot prove anything. It is pure conjecture. |
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stuart1974
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Post by stuart1974 on Jul 22, 2015 21:51:57 GMT
I don't normally post on these types of threads as I don't really have time to keep up and respond to the evolving debate, so apologies for the length and any lack of follow up.
All sides during the troubles had their share of massacres, however the Army learnt a lot and was a different beast from the mid 70s onwards. My brother joined Robert Nairac's old regiment in the early 1980s and the stories about what happened to him Captain Nairac) were very raw. Add to that Warrenpoint, Hyde Park, Enniskillen, Deal, Proxy bombs, the lynching of the two signallers and the killings in Germany amongst others, it is perhaps surprising there were no further events on that scale.
There is certainly no comparison in terms of occasions and on scale, Republicans are attributed to have killed 2000 of the 3500 fatalities, while the security forces have killed around 400.
Oldie - the Croake Park incident occurred in 1920 and was by the Royal Irish Constabulary.
I do not agree with everything the armed forces have done since 1914 but that doesn't stop me wearing a poppy.
With regards to James McClean, he was born in 1989 so would be relying on others to tell him what happened. He also grew up in an area of Derry badly affected by Bloody Sunday in 1972 so would have a different view to someone detached from events.
The flag thing, if true as I only have what is here to go by, for me is just disrespectful and unnecessary. The poppy issue is showing a misunderstanding of its meaning and not remembering the thousands of Irishmen who fought in the trenches believing they would be shown gratitude afterwards with Home Rule.
Personally, while I dislike the selective history, I have more important things to worry about than the views of one footballer.
Gas-Ed, despite what I have written, I agree this thread ought to stop before things go too far.
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Post by 4evergas67 on Jul 22, 2015 22:06:28 GMT
I find I interesting how a thread like this can run but if someone were to chip in about race,sexuality,disabilty or religion all hell would break loose and it would have been shut down about 3 pages ago.
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Post by LJG on Jul 22, 2015 22:09:47 GMT
Are the families of those murdered by the British Army on Bloody Sunday allowed an opinion Phil? Blinkered. I actually said I would not comment further on this, but I will add one last comment.
They are allowed an opinion and I can not stop them expressing it. Next home game come and chat to me about my good mate Clive who was hundreds of miles away when the a**hole stepped out of a bush and emptied a magazine into the car his wife Heidi was driving. Then maybe you will understand why I have an opinion on it.
For the record I am not blinkered I am aware it is two-sided, but I lived through years of constant threat to my family and friends and that is my way.
I have southern Irish blood on my fathers side & he hates the way that things developed over the years.
Up the Gas
But the victims of the Bloody Sunday massacre who DM says he is respecting were not IRA so why would they be shooting someone's wife? |
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Post by gasfred on Jul 22, 2015 22:44:24 GMT
Sorry folks for kickin up a storm. Just annoyed with the disrespect. Just hope he has no gripe with a nation like Turkey cos if he did that at an international there he won't get out alive!!
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stuart1974
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Post by stuart1974 on Jul 22, 2015 23:08:40 GMT
Sorry folks for kickin up a storm. Just annoyed with the disrespect. Just hope he has no gripe with a nation like Turkey cos if he did that at an international there he won't get out alive!! Don't worry, he probably thinks he is doing the right thing even though many think otherwise. Leave him to it as Life is too short and precious to get wound up by individuals who have no direct effect on us. |
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Post by gonzales on Jul 22, 2015 23:32:29 GMT
Sorry folks for kickin up a storm. Just annoyed with the disrespect. Just hope he has no gripe with a nation like Turkey cos if he did that at an international there he won't get out alive!! He irish, not Armenian. You all sound like you'd enjoy the work of Eric Hobsbawm and associates. |
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Post by jonjames on Jul 23, 2015 0:26:24 GMT
All this stuff happened a while ago and most of the atrocities were committed by individuals. I'm English but would be happier if I could call myself European.
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Post by philbemmygas on Jul 23, 2015 5:33:38 GMT
Ihatefootball and LJG feel free to meet me in the bar for a discussion on this subject, I appreciate your opinions and would like to explain fully to you why I have responded to certain comments on this thread, mines a Guinness
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Post by newmarketgas on Jul 23, 2015 5:48:00 GMT
Jonjames, I can see your point. If you are English and someone disrespects you it is free speech, if you answer back it is jingoism and sabre rattling, so calling yourself European could be a lot easier.  |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2015 6:52:07 GMT
If England play Eire, would it be acceptable for the English players to turn away when the Irish National anthem is played? How about the same v Germany or Japan?
No, of course it wouldn't.
My old man drummed it into me that no matter how poor you are, good manners cost nothing. McClean is not poor, but he is pig ignorant.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2015 7:31:59 GMT
I find I interesting how a thread like this can run but if someone were to chip in about race,sexuality,disabilty or religion all hell would break loose and it would have been shut down about 3 pages ago. In fairness when race, sexuality etc have been discussed some posters have shown little to no respect for the subject or one another which is why mods end up pulling the thread. This thread has been very well discussed and everyone has remained polite and respectful. I can assure you the mod team always allow as much free speech as possible and feel bad when a thread needs pulling. |
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Post by LJG on Jul 23, 2015 7:34:03 GMT
If England play Eire, would it be acceptable for the English players to turn away when the Irish National anthem is played? How about the same v Germany or Japan? No, of course it wouldn't. My old man drummed it into me that no matter how poor you are, good manners cost nothing. McClean is not poor, but he is pig ignorant. Buy the England players wouldn't be expected to sing the Irish national anthem or show deference to the tricolour so that's not the same scenario is it? |
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Post by LJG on Jul 23, 2015 7:35:57 GMT
Sorry folks for kickin up a storm. Just annoyed with the disrespect. Just hope he has no gripe with a nation like Turkey cos if he did that at an international there he won't get out alive!! Pretty sure that's just ill considered b**locks. Pretty sure you've been having a read of the Daily Mail. |
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Post by LJG on Jul 23, 2015 7:42:16 GMT
Ihatefootball and LJG feel free to meet me in the bar for a discussion on this subject, I appreciate your opinions and would like to explain fully to you why I have responded to certain comments on this thread, mines a Guinness I understand you have feelings about the IRA. DM has done nothing in support of the IRA. DM did what he thought best so as not to disrespect the memories of victims of the Bloody Sunday massacre who were not IRA members. The prime minister has apologised in Parliament for the Bloody Sunday massacre so there is absolutely no doubt that it was not the killing of IRA paramilitaries but of innocent civilians. Continually talking about the IRA in relation to those people is simply wrong, ill-informed and ignorant. I'll have Guinness too unless there's a good cask ale on. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2015 7:46:41 GMT
If England play Eire, would it be acceptable for the English players to turn away when the Irish National anthem is played? How about the same v Germany or Japan? No, of course it wouldn't. My old man drummed it into me that no matter how poor you are, good manners cost nothing. McClean is not poor, but he is pig ignorant. Buy the England players wouldn't be expected to sing the Irish national anthem or show deference to the tricolour so that's not the same scenario is it? McClean is not expected to sing the British National anthem! Where on earth do you get that from?....and yes, it is the same scenario ! |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2015 7:49:04 GMT
"Continually talking about the IRA in relation to those people is simply wrong, ill-informed and ignorant." - That works both ways. By turning away, is McClean also saying the same about all British people?
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