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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2015 13:02:52 GMT
Nobody has mentioned the Labour leadership context yet, so I thought I will.
The over riding impression I have is this. If these four people are the best Labour have to offer, then it really is a sad moment in time.
Corbyn is really just a joke. His economic policy is based around having a Magic Money Tree !
Cooper and Burnham are tainted by their non-performance while in government, especially Burnham with the Mid-Staffs debacle.
Kendall comes across well, but I have the opinion that she'll only get more support if she started to wear tight leather.
Is this the end of the Labour Party as we know it?
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Post by supergas on Aug 20, 2015 19:03:21 GMT
Nobody has mentioned the Labour leadership context yet, so I thought I will. The over riding impression I have is this. If these four people are the best Labour have to offer, then it really is a sad moment in time. Corbyn is really just a joke. His economic policy is based around having a Magic Money Tree ! Cooper and Burnham are tainted by their non-performance while in government, especially Burnham with the Mid-Staffs debacle. Kendall comes across well, but I have the opinion that she'll only get more support if she started to wear tight leather. Is this the end of the Labour Party as we know it? I honestly can't see any way back for them if they elect Corbyn. They'll either then have a coup from the so-called 'centre' to replace him or spend 4 years in the wilderness and lose another 50-100 seats at the next General Election. Oh, and if Cooper, Burnham and Kendall can't get into a room and agree for one to drop out for the good of the party, there's no hope for them at all... Still, it was the best £3 I ever spent... |
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Post by gonzales on Aug 20, 2015 19:09:26 GMT
My understanding was that all money comes from the Magic Money Tree? Or at least it is in the system we currently operate?
Let's hope it is the end of Labour as we know it, we could do with being presented a real alternative to the Conservatives narrative.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2015 19:20:01 GMT
Corbyn's economic strategy is to just print any money required. For example, say the NHS needs another 20 billion, then just print it !
Nationalise the railway's? Fine, but how do you pay for it? Print it? If they just 'take' the railways from private investors, with no recompense, then investors will not invest in the UK in the future as there will be the chance that any company could just be 'taken' by the government. It's worked well in Venezuala hasn't it ?
But hey ho. Labour want to run the country yet they can't even organize an internal election properly. Supergas reckons it's the best three quid he's spent, along with many many others. If you're in the Armed Forces, then it's only one quid! Bargain.
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Post by aghast on Aug 20, 2015 20:32:46 GMT
All very well, nobby, taking the mick out of Corbyn on a football forum where the only people who ever seem to reply are anti-Labour voters. With 30% of the vote in this country, the Labour vote isn't reflected on here. You might find opinions a bit different on the Liverpool, Manchester and Sheffield clubs' forums.
Anyway, I'll make three other points:
1) Milliband's new electoral system is crap and open to abuse, as we've seen admitted on here;
2) Corbyn is an honest conviction politician like Thatcher, Benn and Farage. He comes lowest on the list of expenses claims in the House of Commons and clearly isn't there just to feather his own nest.
3) You might not vote Labour or lean towards the left - I suspect not. But what is the Labour Party all about? Surely not just electing a Cameron look-alike, because if so, then Joe Average might just as well vote for Cameron. He represents an alternative view. One that you don't like, but millions do.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2015 12:07:38 GMT
Can you see Labour picking up 30% of the vote if Corbyn is the leader? I can't.
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Post by inee on Aug 21, 2015 18:39:49 GMT
Depends nobby, i hate labour, but a lot of labour voters left when labour became a weak version conservative party with a war criminal as a leader. I suspect if corbyn wins a lot of thier core voters will be back, and theres sh** loads of em around, if those core supporters flock back then they will give everyone a run for thier money  |
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Post by supergas on Aug 23, 2015 23:44:03 GMT
All very well, nobby, taking the mick out of Corbyn on a football forum where the only people who ever seem to reply are anti-Labour voters. With 30% of the vote in this country, the Labour vote isn't reflected on here. You might find opinions a bit different on the Liverpool, Manchester and Sheffield clubs' forums. Anyway, I'll make three other points: 1) Milliband's new electoral system is crap and open to abuse, as we've seen admitted on here; 2) Corbyn is an honest conviction politician like Thatcher, Benn and Farage. He comes lowest on the list of expenses claims in the House of Commons and clearly isn't there just to feather his own nest. 3) You might not vote Labour or lean towards the left - I suspect not. But what is the Labour Party all about? Surely not just electing a Cameron look-alike, because if so, then Joe Average might just as well vote for Cameron. He represents an alternative view. One that you don't like, but millions do. I'll play the game... 1) Labour were incredibly stupid to decide on this electoral system...with hindsight (or just general oversight) they would have realised any voter list for a future leader should consist only of those who are currently supporting the party when the previous leader resigned... 2) I love the fact that he believes in his convictions and wants to lead Her Majesty's Opposition...but that's purely because I oppose his political standpoint and think that (as a society) we've moved on from the 1980's... 3) If the Labour party isn't about electing a 'Cameron-lookalike', what has it been about since 1997? It's not a dig, it's an honest question... |
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Post by gonzales on Aug 24, 2015 8:52:56 GMT
Honestly, what David Cameron and his entourage are doing to the destitute, disabled and young people is disgusting and inhumane. These are the people who will vote for Jeremy Corbyn, along with those who empathise with the above and want to live in a more egalitarian society. There is a deep split in our society I'm afraid, ridicule Corbyn all you like but I'm convinced that if he is elected leader then we will be seeing another election sooner than 2020.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2015 9:59:31 GMT
"what David Cameron and his entourage are doing to the destitute, disabled and young people is disgusting and inhumane." - Can you please explain just what is 'disgusting and inhumane'?
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Post by gonzales on Aug 24, 2015 23:24:11 GMT
When I say 'disgusting' I mean something morally repugnant, when I say 'inhumane' I mean lacking in kindness and compassion.
Any story I'll tell is anecdotal and/or personal. I'm sure you could find out what it is I find disgusting and inhumane if you talked to some poor, disabled or young people - failing that someone experienced working in the education, medical or social sector. Failing that you could try reading or viewing a different media source.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2015 5:34:34 GMT
"Failing that you could try reading or viewing a different media source." - It is very presumptuous of you to have made a decision on what I read, or do not read. Plus you are not the only one with anecdotal or personal stories.
You made some wild claims, and I just asked you for clarification of those claims. Obscure left-wing rhetoric isn't going to get you anywhere.
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Post by supergas on Aug 25, 2015 23:17:25 GMT
Honestly, what David Cameron and his entourage are doing to the destitute, disabled and young people is disgusting and inhumane. These are the people who will vote for Jeremy Corbyn, along with those who empathise with the above and want to live in a more egalitarian society. There is a deep split in our society I'm afraid, ridicule Corbyn all you like but I'm convinced that if he is elected leader then we will be seeing another election sooner than 2020. If Corbyn is elected I'd be surprised if he's still leader of Her Majesty's Opposition in 2017, let alone winning a General Election in 2020... |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2015 4:47:59 GMT
Honestly, what David Cameron and his entourage are doing to the destitute, disabled and young people is disgusting and inhumane. These are the people who will vote for Jeremy Corbyn, along with those who empathise with the above and want to live in a more egalitarian society. There is a deep split in our society I'm afraid, ridicule Corbyn all you like but I'm convinced that if he is elected leader then we will be seeing another election sooner than 2020. If Corbyn is elected I'd be surprised if he's still leader of Her Majesty's Opposition in 2017, let alone winning a General Election in 2020... I'm still chuckling at the claim that there will be an election before 2020 if Corbyn is elected leader. Aren't these Lefties aware that to be elected leader of the Labour Party requires something like 0.01% (guesstimate) of the total voting population of the UK? I used to think that Corbyn's 'peoples quantative easing' programme was nonsense. Now I've seen the detail the programme is positively barking ! |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2015 10:43:38 GMT
Tsk, no response and gonzales hasn't even mentioned the evil Tories eating the first born nor forcing our Grannies onto the game to make ends meet.
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Post by supergas on Aug 26, 2015 13:26:21 GMT
If Corbyn is elected I'd be surprised if he's still leader of Her Majesty's Opposition in 2017, let alone winning a General Election in 2020... I'm still chuckling at the claim that there will be an election before 2020 if Corbyn is elected leader. Aren't these Lefties aware that to be elected leader of the Labour Party requires something like 0.01% (guesstimate) of the total voting population of the UK? I used to think that Corbyn's 'peoples quantative easing' programme was nonsense. Now I've seen the detail the programme is positively barking ! Ignoring the whole 'second preference system you can be elected leader of the Labour party with the support of just 0.6% of the UK electorate. Then all you have to do is convince enough of the rest of them that you're competent...which many of his policies don't seem to do... - "... higher taxes for the rich..." conveniently ignoring all the data that says if you drop the tax percentage on the rich the total income from them actually goes up...
- "...He believes in paying off the deficit but not through spending cuts..." well first off either the journalist (BBC) or Corbyn doesn't realise the difference between debt and deficit, and secondly, what's the plan if you're not going to spend less?
- "...he would consider introducing a "maximum wage" to cap the pay of top executives..." that one is just funny!
- "...The Bank of England would be allowed to print money - People's Quantitative Easing - for "new large scale housing, energy, transport and digital projects..." and welcome to Zimbabwe, where you have to be quick buying a loaf of bread as the price will double between picking it up and getting to the checkouts...
- "...He would look to withdraw from Nato..." I would suggest he reads up on what Nato has done since 1949 and also realise it's not just a military or a political organisation, but a trade one too...
- "...Tuition fees would be scrapped, at a cost of £10bn, and replaced with grants..." well, that's £10bn that can't be used to pay off the debt each year...
- "...He is opposed to the HS2 scheme linking London with the north of England, claiming it would turn northern cities into "dormitories for London businesses"..." I don't even know what that means, but it seems to be a stupid reason to oppose HS2...
- "...He would ensure half of his shadow cabinet were women..." why? You want the best people doing the job. If 75% of the best people are women, pick them, but if 75% of the best people are men, pick them. Why pick an arbitrary number for such an important set of jobs...?
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Post by inee on Aug 27, 2015 12:53:44 GMT
I'm still chuckling at the claim that there will be an election before 2020 if Corbyn is elected leader. Aren't these Lefties aware that to be elected leader of the Labour Party requires something like 0.01% (guesstimate) of the total voting population of the UK? I used to think that Corbyn's 'peoples quantative easing' programme was nonsense. Now I've seen the detail the programme is positively barking ! Ignoring the whole 'second preference system you can be elected leader of the Labour party with the support of just 0.6% of the UK electorate. Then all you have to do is convince enough of the rest of them that you're competent...which many of his policies don't seem to do... - "... higher taxes for the rich..." conveniently ignoring all the data that says if you drop the tax percentage on the rich the total income from them actually goes up...
- "...He believes in paying off the deficit but not through spending cuts..." well first off either the journalist (BBC) or Corbyn doesn't realise the difference between debt and deficit, and secondly, what's the plan if you're not going to spend less?
- "...he would consider introducing a "maximum wage" to cap the pay of top executives..." that one is just funny!
- "...The Bank of England would be allowed to print money - People's Quantitative Easing - for "new large scale housing, energy, transport and digital projects..." and welcome to Zimbabwe, where you have to be quick buying a loaf of bread as the price will double between picking it up and getting to the checkouts...
- 1"...He would look to withdraw from Nato..." I would suggest he reads up on what Nato has done since 1949 and also realise it's not just a military or a political organisation, but a trade one too...
- 2"...Tuition fees would be scrapped, at a cost of £10bn, and replaced with grants..." well, that's £10bn that can't be used to pay off the debt each year...
- " 3...He is opposed to the HS2 scheme linking London with the north of England, claiming it would turn northern cities into "dormitories for London businesses"..." I don't even know what that means, but it seems to be a stupid reason to oppose HS2...
- 4"...He would ensure half of his shadow cabinet were women..." why? You want the best people doing the job. If 75% of the best people are women, pick them, but if 75% of the best people are men, pick them. Why pick an arbitrary number for such an important set of jobs...?
1 That was taken directly from the green scum  2 Totally wrong imo remember uni is a privilege not a right, the idea of uni is to end up with higher paid jobs, so they should be made to pay, if you did night school to better yourself with city and guilds etc then you have to pay. Uni's should drop the stupid courses which mean bugger all in the real world as it's a trick to make it look like more people need to go to uni. 3 It's like the pistols sang in the song satellite, just turn areas into satellite towns of london, and make the north totally worse for the people who live there, as housing will get pricier so locals wont be able to live there any more 4 Agree this positive discrimination is bollocks always has been and always will be jobs should be given on abilities, pc bollocks gone bollacky Also as he seems so far ahead if he wins then i think labour will get a bigger turnout in the general election, as the grass roots will come back, the worry for me is that the doss perv running labour at present seems to be purging voters, and that goes against everything the party believes in |
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Post by supergas on Aug 27, 2015 22:13:35 GMT
What did I learn about the Labour leadership election today...
Ever since Labour said anyone could vote in the election, but then changed that plan because it was stupid, one if the ways they're banning people is if on social media they have supported other party's in previous elections...
...seems fair enough, except Corbyn congratulated Galloway on twitter (after he defeated a Labour candidate)...so technically Corbyn should be banned from voting in the leadership contest....?
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Post by gonzales on Aug 28, 2015 14:20:50 GMT
Thankfully guys I don't spend my life checking this forum, and why should I bother, you all have your minds made up already. Sorry for presuming what you read Nobby, just figured you wheren't in the real world. They did release the figures today or yesta of the 2,500 people who died after being declared fit for work, just saying.
Anyway, my foray away from Gas Talk better end now, it's like an echo chamber around here.
Best Wishes and Up The Gas.
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Post by supergas on Aug 28, 2015 23:35:57 GMT
Thankfully guys I don't spend my life checking this forum, and why should I bother, you all have your minds made up already. Sorry for presuming what you read Nobby, just figured you wheren't in the real world. They did release the figures today or yesta of the 2,500 people who died after being declared fit for work, just saying. Anyway, my foray away from Gas Talk better end now, it's like an echo chamber around here. Best Wishes and Up The Gas. We'd love an informed intellectual debate. For example, where does that 2,500 figure come from. 2,500 people die every day, every week, every month, every year....if they were all declared fit for work, again over what timeframe? |
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