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Post by inee on Jun 9, 2016 10:57:10 GMT
Maybe I've watched too much Star Trek but I really believe that the human race will only be properly civilized when we have a single world nation. Like a United States of the World if you will. As much as I resent the milking of money that gets poured into unelected bureaucracy sadly remaining in seems to be the only/best way to reach that ultimate end game. Then surely hugo if that was correct member states would be allowed to foster trade deals worldwide for themselves rather than be told who or not to trade with, a single world nation is a myth and will never be achievable, in fact the only way to achieve something like that would be to abolish religion and individuality as everyone would have to believe and think the same and the only way to achieve that would be by population filtering, i for one hope i am long dead before that ever happens. If you look around the world and see countries trying to achieve the one idea you see countries that believe they have an exlusive right to control their populations. sorry not for me fella
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2016 11:49:45 GMT
How can you ignore the evidence of hundreds of years? mate, times change. Things change. Capitalism changed. How you can ignore all of the leading economic authorities predictions (OECD, World Bank, Bank of England, IFS) in favour of listening to a large blond child, Donald trump, lets privatise the nhs Michael gove and the leaders of the French national front and ukip is beyond me. Big money is already pouring out of the country at the very prospect of the possibility of brexit. OECD, funded by the EU, so not impartial. Bank of England - The reality is that they don't know what will happen "Interest rates could rise or fall if the UK votes to leave the European Union, Mark Carney, the Bank of England Governor has admitted". Translated it means he doesn't have a scooby. IFS. I assume this is the IMF? Not really impatial are they, as their funding comes from the various Governments. So, are the same leading economic authorities the very same ones that forecast doom and gloom if the UK failed to adopt the Euro? I remember being told by the economic authorities that the UK would be 'left behind', that it would become an 'economic backwater' as the rest of the EU surged ahead with the Euro. The UK would suffer job losses, lose investment, the Financial Heart of London would be ripped away. It's always the same. Put three economists in a room, and they'll deliver four different opinions. Times do indeed change, and the way the world was shaped forty years ago, with geographic areas formng trading blocs, have gone. Big money is not 'pouring out of the country'. I also saw the alarmist news that 64 billion has been mentioned. But really, 64 billion? Are you aware, that on the London FX Market, hundreds of billions are traded EVERY SINGLE DAY ! The company I work for has a turnover of over 200 Billion per month, every month of the year! 64 billion being either moved out, or as most likely, just transferred into another currency (hey, currency trading is a huge market too) is just normal stuff. In the financial world, 64 billion is not a big sum. I'm not sure why you're bringing Trump or the leaders of the French National Front into the discussion.
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Jun 9, 2016 12:00:01 GMT
Maybe I've watched too much Star Trek but I really believe that the human race will only be properly civilized when we have a single world nation. Like a United States of the World if you will. As much as I resent the milking of money that gets poured into unelected bureaucracy sadly remaining in seems to be the only/best way to reach that ultimate end game. Then surely hugo if that was correct member states would be allowed to foster trade deals worldwide for themselves rather than be told who or not to trade with, a single world nation is a myth and will never be achievable, in fact the only way to achieve something like that would be to abolish religion and individuality as everyone would have to believe and think the same and the only way to achieve that would be by population filtering, i for one hope i am long dead before that ever happens. If you look around the world and see countries trying to achieve the one idea you see countries that believe they have an exlusive right to control their populations. sorry not for me fella I understand that its an unachievable ideal. Agreed re religion. Needs abolishing world wide. Most evil concept ever made up!
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Post by Officer Barbrady on Jun 9, 2016 14:11:54 GMT
I dont doubt for a second there are those (like nobby) by the looks of it who have non race related opinions. To deny the racist undertone to the brexit support would be ridiculous though. Its very much there.
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Post by aghast on Jun 9, 2016 14:46:29 GMT
I've never considered a United States of Europe a threatening idea. It works in the USA. Different states have their own identities and governments, along with tax raising and legislative powers. And it's not as if the USA is a homogenous English-speaking country. Many races, cultures and languages co-exist. Not always harmoniously, but I don't see Louisiana or Seattle pushing for an exit. And those two states are as different from each other as Britain is from Italy. So the states of America and the countries of Europe each have large social differences within and between them.
Of course California contributes more per head than Alabama, just as we put in more than Spain and Greece. So we should, if we are part of the club, and enjoying the benefits of being a dominant member.
Listening to interviews with ordinary people who say they are voting to leave, so many concentrate on immigration and the fear of not being able to keep their English culture. I think there's a huge amount of xenophobia in this country, and it's blinding his country to the benefits of membership.
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Post by inee on Jun 9, 2016 15:49:23 GMT
Aghast The usa is probably not a good example on how to force states to co exist, the division between areas is unreal, also the path to united was paved with real racism and genocide, also still one of the few countries in the world to have open camps for the indigenous population. Why should we put more in when the uk prospers as i remember the uk aren't allowed a siesta, don't get to set fire to ports to stop goods coming in etc. There's a huge amount of xenophobia in the world, more in europe than in the uk, what is so wrong of being proud of your country and wanting to do better for our own, other countries just love european migrants don't they, were far more xenophobic than sat bosnia aren't we ??
If we are better off in can you explain some of the real benefits of membership ,the only benefits that i can see so far is that if i order an exhaust for my van from germany it will be delivered within 2 weeks at least £150 cheaper than in the uk, or if i order parts from bulgaria for my car they are a whole 75% cheaper for oem prices and guaranteed to be on my doorstep within 7 days, most uk based car dealers take longer to deliver. So whilst i personally am benefiting by getting cheaper car and van spares. No one is benefiting from the constant stream of monies going to europe as i've already said the homeless issues in the uk could be eradicated almost overnight using one or two days worth of money we pay to the eu.
Also whats wrong with leaving and trading with some of the poorer countries rather than mainland europe , don't forget that when we pay our annual subs to the eu france and germany always get a nice large slice, so why doesn't more go to places like bulgaria, poland, romania.
Oh yup it's because europe doesn't give a toss about its poorer member states as long as france and germany get their slice that's all that matters, remember back a while, when we recieved a 1 billion bill from the eu, did you not even remotely question why the bill was almost the exact same amount that europe wanted to spend on the un(i think it was or if not it was overseas aid).
So please convince me why we should stay. if there were good and valid real reasons then i could be convinced to change my mind
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Post by inee on Jun 9, 2016 15:51:16 GMT
I dont doubt for a second there are those (like nobby) by the looks of it who have non race related opinions. To deny the racist undertone to the brexit support would be ridiculous though. Its very much there. You keep saying this but show some real not perceived examples, it's easy to bang a fist on the table and shout everything in the world is racist but please give examples of this actually happening
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Post by Big Jock on Jun 9, 2016 16:07:31 GMT
chuffin ell, th' remainers mus be strugglin theys aleady playin th' race card!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2016 16:07:40 GMT
Actually, f**k it I'm going to say it. This whole referendum has some very dark racist undertones in my opinion. At the beginning I didn't really care to be honest but the more I read and hear the more I realise that it's about elitism and entitlement. How boringly predictable from the British. I am genuinely worried that they might actually be stupid enough to actually vote to leave because the general public are largely semi-retarded gullible fascists. We don't trust Europe but we sure as hell lap up some xenophobic propaganda. it had to be some ignorant left wing dumbfuck with a chip on his/her shoulder who brought the racial card into it so it might as well be you. Well done. And we we wonder why the worlds gone barking mad.
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Post by Officer Barbrady on Jun 9, 2016 16:10:31 GMT
If any of you think 'money saved' will go anywhere near public services you are mad. Unless of course you believe the guys who wanted the NHS privatised and people to pay for treatments. Who were they again? Oh yes Boris and Mickey G. Come on guys if there's one thing we can all agree on surely its that you'd have to be mental to think it would go anywhere other Tha tax relief for businesses to stop them pulling out of the UK
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Post by Officer Barbrady on Jun 9, 2016 16:13:47 GMT
Say what you like there is a massive racial undertone to this. Just speak to people. Its not about a 'race card'. People are entitled to their vote as they are entitled to hold racist beliefs. I'm saying it as it is - the little England mentality is somewhat swayed towards exclusivity and a sense of being better and looking after 'our own'. A large proportion of out votes will be racially motivated.
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Post by Officer Barbrady on Jun 9, 2016 16:15:07 GMT
Actually, f**k it I'm going to say it. This whole referendum has some very dark racist undertones in my opinion. At the beginning I didn't really care to be honest but the more I read and hear the more I realise that it's about elitism and entitlement. How boringly predictable from the British. I am genuinely worried that they might actually be stupid enough to actually vote to leave because the general public are largely semi-retarded gullible fascists. We don't trust Europe but we sure as hell lap up some xenophobic propaganda. it had to be some ignorant left wing dumbfuck with a chip on his/her shoulder who brought the racial card into it so it might as well be you. Well done. And we we wonder why the worlds gone barking mad. charming. Good luck at the polling station hope you can find it.
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Post by inee on Jun 9, 2016 16:28:31 GMT
If any of you think 'money saved' will go anywhere near public services you are mad. Unless of course you believe the guys who wanted the NHS privatised and people to pay for treatments. Who were they again? Oh yes Boris and Mickey G. Come on guys if there's one thing we can all agree on surely its that you'd have to be mental to think it would go anywhere other Tha tax relief for businesses to stop them pulling out of the UK Actually i fully agree with the one fact in your post, yes i am indeed mental You are correct in that yes 20million a day to spend on our homeless maybe a fanciful dream of mine and others but once out, it's something to speak about as im sure future government will be more inclined to listen to the people, may i counter your tax relief and raise you a remain campaigners words that railway could not be renationalised if we pull out, we there's absolutely no chance of nationalisation if we stay in,(in fact that politicians party have had several goes at running the country but never reversed any tory policies or renationalised anything) The nhs is in more danger the deeper we go into europe as it doesn't fit and will eventually disappear, our armed forces our in the same danger if we stay as they would be under a green led government. Believe it or not many people pay for their own treatment, should they not be allowed, many people on this board will also have had or will receive non nhs medical treatment under perks of their employment is that wrong, remember that those who pay allow others to be treated for free.
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Post by inee on Jun 9, 2016 16:53:38 GMT
Say what you like there is a massive racial undertone to this. Just speak to people. Its not about a 'race card'. People are entitled to their vote as they are entitled to hold racist beliefs. I'm saying it as it is - the little England mentality is somewhat swayed towards exclusivity and a sense of being better and looking after 'our own'. A large proportion of out votes will be racially motivated. Ah ok then by your logic i must be a total racist as i want everyone in this country off the streets and living under cover, if being racist means wanting our own pensioners to be able to eat and put heaters on during the winter, and not giving a toss about people in other countries until our problems are sorted out then i must be guilty as charged. But guess what i am not racist i just don't give a toss about anyone overseas, i don't feel better than anyone else, i do however believe that those who are here should be taken care of by the schemes they have paid into, i do believe that those squaddies who came back destroyed for whatever reason should not be on the streets ,should not be denied treatment, and should take priority over the rest of us where help is concerned. I also believe pensioners should be at least entitled to live comfortably after working for ever and can't afford the basics, i also believe that even your grandparents should be entitled to help if they fall on hard times. I am also proud to be english and proud to live in a country that has failsafes in place to help others who have paid into the system if you perceive being proud of my nation as being racist then i feel sorry for you i really do , and despair at how people can't really think for themselves anymore and believe everything they learnt at school, and believe that if an englishman is proud of being english then they are racist, but if the welsh or scots ,french or anyone else is proud of their nation then hey that's ok. as only the english can be racist right. Your thoughts on perceived racism and elitism seem to follow a very well worn path, you seem from your post to be one who believes in free thought and maybe in free speech that is until someone has the gall to disagree with you, So by your logic the majority of the world outside of europe is racist as they seem to love their countries oh by the way i really dont believe fergal sharkey is racist(maybe you could stretch to borderline sexist as he did sing about an attractive girl(shame on him)) What goes on abroad is no concern of mine, remember they have a chance to vote for these things in their own countries, i also believe we should be allowed to have our own nhs, allow who we choose in not just everyone but those with skills to do a job, it works in places like canada and australia
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2016 16:59:30 GMT
it had to be some ignorant left wing dumbfuck with a chip on his/her shoulder who brought the racial card into it so it might as well be you. Well done. And we we wonder why the worlds gone barking mad. charming. Good luck at the polling station hope you can find it. What's the point in voting? It'll be rigged. This communist regime we all appear to want will make sure of that.
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Post by Officer Barbrady on Jun 9, 2016 17:03:35 GMT
Inee with respect that's a load of garbage based on a bunch of assumptions you've made about what you think I think. Being proud of your country doesn't make you racist. Being a racist makes you a racist. Please don't give me all that 'by your logic you must think xyz' 'oh and I suppose you think this too' because its bollocks.
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Post by Officer Barbrady on Jun 9, 2016 17:09:43 GMT
Say what you like there is a massive racial undertone to this. Just speak to people. Its not about a 'race card'. People are entitled to their vote as they are entitled to hold racist beliefs. I'm saying it as it is - the little England mentality is somewhat swayed towards exclusivity and a sense of being better and looking after 'our own'. A large proportion of out votes will be racially motivated. Ah ok then by your logic i must be a total racist as i want everyone in this country off the streets and living under cover, if being racist means wanting our own pensioners to be able to eat and put heaters on during the winter, and not giving a toss about people in other countries until our problems are sorted out then i must be guilty as charged. But guess what i am not racist i just don't give a toss about anyone overseas, i don't feel better than anyone else, i do however believe that those who are here should be taken care of by the schemes they have paid into, i do believe that those squaddies who came back destroyed for whatever reason should not be on the streets ,should not be denied treatment, and should take priority over the rest of us where help is concerned. I also believe pensioners should be at least entitled to live comfortably after working for ever and can't afford the basics, i also believe that even your grandparents should be entitled to help if they fall on hard times. I am also proud to be english and proud to live in a country that has failsafes in place to help others who have paid into the system if you perceive being proud of my nation as being racist then i feel sorry for you i really do , and despair at how people can't really think for themselves anymore and believe everything they learnt at school, and believe that if an englishman is proud of being english then they are racist, but if the welsh or scots ,french or anyone else is proud of their nation then hey that's ok. as only the english can be racist right. Your thoughts on perceived racism and elitism seem to follow a very well worn path, you seem from your post to be one who believes in free thought and maybe in free speech that is until someone has the gall to disagree with you, So by your logic the majority of the world outside of europe is racist as they seem to love their countries oh by the way i really dont believe fergal sharkey is racist(maybe you could stretch to borderline sexist as he did sing about an attractive girl(shame on him)) What goes on abroad is no concern of mine, remember they have a chance to vote for these things in their own countries, i also believe we should be allowed to have our own nhs, allow who we choose in not just everyone but those with skills to do a job, it works in places like canada and australia look, you're voting out and nothing will convince you otherwise. Lets just hope your assumptions that things will improve for the above are well founded if the majority vote the same way as you. We wouldn't want to vote for something based on zero facts after all would we. We all want quality of life to improve remember both in and out
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2016 17:10:41 GMT
If any of you think 'money saved' will go anywhere near public services you are mad. Unless of course you believe the guys who wanted the NHS privatised and people to pay for treatments. Who were they again? Oh yes Boris and Mickey G. Come on guys if there's one thing we can all agree on surely its that you'd have to be mental to think it would go anywhere other Tha tax relief for businesses to stop them pulling out of the UK You obviously want to stay in and apart from the ignorant,narrow minded racial card, I find it strange how someone with left wing views appears to support a right wing barefaced liar in David Cameron. The bloke is an embarrassment to everyone he represents,US unfortunately,and has changed his mind on many factors. Just like Jeremy Corbyn. Left,right they are all the same. Looking after their own interests. They couldn't run/organise a water up in the traditional brewery that is why they want Europe to make the decisions for them. Long live communism. And we all live happily ever after. Yea right. Tick, tock.
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Post by Officer Barbrady on Jun 9, 2016 17:18:18 GMT
If any of you think 'money saved' will go anywhere near public services you are mad. Unless of course you believe the guys who wanted the NHS privatised and people to pay for treatments. Who were they again? Oh yes Boris and Mickey G. Come on guys if there's one thing we can all agree on surely its that you'd have to be mental to think it would go anywhere other Tha tax relief for businesses to stop them pulling out of the UK You obviously want to stay in and apart from the ignorant,narrow minded racial card, I find it strange how someone with left wing views appears to support a right wing barefaced liar in David Cameron. The bloke is an embarrassment to everyone he represents,US unfortunately,and has changed his mind on many factors. Just like Jeremy Corbyn. Left,right they are all the same. Looking after their own interests. They couldn't run/organise a p**s up in the traditional brewery that is why they want Europe to make the decisions for them. Long live communism. And we all live happily ever after. Yea right. Tick, tock. I'm not left wing right wing chicken wing whatever. Deny racism all you want. Id argue you are the ignorant one to do so. If I did have an affiliation to any main political party they'd all be telling me to vote remain anyway wouldn't they. .
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Post by Officer Barbrady on Jun 9, 2016 17:33:10 GMT
I dont doubt for a second there are those (like nobby) by the looks of it who have non race related opinions. To deny the racist undertone to the brexit support would be ridiculous though. Its very much there. You keep saying this but show some real not perceived examples, it's easy to bang a fist on the table and shout everything in the world is racist but please give examples of this actually happening do my eyes deceive me or is a 'leave' advocate actually asking for evidence? Didn't think you guys needed any to make your minds up
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