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Post by Jomo on Sept 29, 2016 16:33:02 GMT
What if they're of similar quality to push the existing first 11 into performing to an even higher standard? Or would you rather risk going through the season with only our youth as competition, to come in when one of our first 11 gets injured/suspended? I'm all for giving our youth a chance, but I'm more for winning, and if the Gas youth players aren't up to League 1 standard, then DC is doing exactly the right thing.
Then you have the risk of not being given any more loan players, Chelsea already have a list of clubs they don't loan players to...mainly for not playing them. They want their players to gain first team experience in lower divisions, not be bait to give other players a kick up the arse. I for one don't agree with loaning players full stop, but accept its the only way for smaller clubs especially with the new loan ruling meaning you have to have bigger squads. When will our youngsters get a chance? I cant see playing for a conference team will get them anywhere near league one football?
I certainly see your point and yes we do not want to end up blacklisting ourselves from certain clubs in terms of loaning their talented youngsters, but who knows what conditions were part of each deal? I would say that loaning our own youngsters out to the conference/conference north would gives us similar benefits to a team like Chelsea sending their youngsters out to L1/L2 teams. We should look to do it as much as we can, particularly if we have a strong first team squad to choose from.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2016 16:44:20 GMT
I think in a loan deal there are obvious benefits to both parties, but when they don't get played that makes the whole deal totally pointless to the parent club. That's not saying parent clubs should have a say in who we play, but we could burn some bridges doing it especially if this loan law is here to stay.
Kilgour I hear is a great young prospect, the best in his age group here, but will he really be considered by having good performances playing for Borehamwood or the like? League football is a different beast as we know, although the top part of the conference is comparable to Lower L2, the bottom 3/4 of the conference are mainly garbage playing on crap pitches that wont aid any development.
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Post by Jomo on Sept 29, 2016 16:57:12 GMT
I think in a loan deal there are obvious benefits to both parties, but when they don't get played that makes the whole deal totally pointless to the parent club. That's not saying parent clubs should have a say in who we play, but we could burn some bridges doing it especially if this loan law is here to stay. Kilgour I hear is a great young prospect, the best in his age group here, but will he really be considered by having good performances playing for Borehamwood or the like? League football is a different beast as we know, although the top part of the conference is comparable to Lower L2, the bottom 3/4 of the conference are mainly garbage playing on crap pitches that wont aid any development. Well Port Vale have stated that their centre back Nathan Smith, who was on-loan at Torquay last year, has come on leaps and bounds due to the experience he gained playing in the conference. Who knows, if Kilgour went to play there for a year, the same might happen with him. Kane and Townsend played on loan for various L1 clubs before making their eventual debuts for Spurs, and nobody would say that L1 is comparable to the Premier League.
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Post by Topper Gas on Sept 29, 2016 18:57:06 GMT
I think in a loan deal there are obvious benefits to both parties, but when they don't get played that makes the whole deal totally pointless to the parent club. That's not saying parent clubs should have a say in who we play, but we could burn some bridges doing it especially if this loan law is here to stay. Kilgour I hear is a great young prospect, the best in his age group here, but will he really be considered by having good performances playing for Borehamwood or the like? League football is a different beast as we know, although the top part of the conference is comparable to Lower L2, the bottom 3/4 of the conference are mainly garbage playing on crap pitches that wont aid any development. Somebody better tell Jamie Lucas he's wasting his time then at BW? The fact that the likes of Locks etc all played in the Conference suggests it's not a graveyard for young players.
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Post by socrates on Sept 29, 2016 20:06:48 GMT
If we are going to have loan players in as mainly squad players/subs then I would rather we let our own younger players like Broom, Lucas, Thomas and Kilgour gain matchday experience rather than someone elses youngsters. If they improve the first 11 then that's a different story, imo they should only be signed if they a better than what we have. And if they are better than what we have but aren't in the team then you have to wonder what DC is doing. What if they're of similar quality to push the existing first 11 into performing to an even higher standard? Or would you rather risk going through the season with only our youth as competition, to come in when one of our first 11 gets injured/suspended? I'm all for giving our youth a chance, but I'm more for winning, and if the Gas youth players aren't up to League 1 standard, then DC is doing exactly the right thing. Yeah we had to rely on our youth in our last relegation season when we had injuries and suspensions and we really struggled and went down.
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Post by Jomo on Sept 29, 2016 20:21:00 GMT
What if they're of similar quality to push the existing first 11 into performing to an even higher standard? Or would you rather risk going through the season with only our youth as competition, to come in when one of our first 11 gets injured/suspended? I'm all for giving our youth a chance, but I'm more for winning, and if the Gas youth players aren't up to League 1 standard, then DC is doing exactly the right thing. Yeah we had to rely on our youth in our last relegation season when we had injuries and suspensions and we really struggled and went down. Yes, last season when the emergency loan system was in place, which it now isn't. DC has reacted accordingly.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2016 21:55:45 GMT
we signed him because the change in the loan rules mean we need a bigger squad,in the past we would use the emergency loan system,the rules are not good for smaller clubs but we seem well equipped to deal with the situation. do you believe we should pick premiership players so as not to upset the big clubs? i dont i actually think roberts will either play saturday in place of leadbitter whose been a bit hot and cold or next tuesday v yeovil. I think the unknown is will the parent club be upset if their player isn't playing? After all he could just as well be in Swansea not playing as not playing in Bristol. Clubs usually lend out players to prove their fitness or to get game time they wouldn't get otherwise ie they lend players for their benefit not ours. i just think the manager should pick the team he wants to pick for each game any other situation would be bad news imo. though i believe he will play at least v yeovil next tuesday.
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Post by 2nd May 1990 on Sept 30, 2016 0:05:30 GMT
I think Clarke has used the loanees well so far, both to improve the team and to push the existing players. I think it's a very difficult balance that needs to be struck and, whilst being a little cautious in the use of Colkett and Roberts, I wouldn't mind betting that they will both play a bigger role as the season goes on.
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Post by Topper Gas on Sept 30, 2016 7:28:50 GMT
I think Clarke has used the loanees well so far, both to improve the team and to push the existing players. I think it's a very difficult balance that needs to be struck and, whilst being a little cautious in the use of Colkett and Roberts, I wouldn't mind betting that they will both play a bigger role as the season goes on. The question is why bring in Roberts when he's clearly not deemed good enough to even make the bench, when his wages could have been spent on a player who was good enough. Let's be honest Leadbitter, if anything, is not even as good as he was in last season. Another mstery is why Monty has got so little game time this season.
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Post by chewbacca on Sept 30, 2016 7:30:13 GMT
Work has started on Connor Roberts at the UWE site today.
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Post by 2nd May 1990 on Sept 30, 2016 7:56:31 GMT
I think Clarke has used the loanees well so far, both to improve the team and to push the existing players. I think it's a very difficult balance that needs to be struck and, whilst being a little cautious in the use of Colkett and Roberts, I wouldn't mind betting that they will both play a bigger role as the season goes on. The question is why bring in Roberts when he's clearly not deemed good enough to even make the bench, when his wages could have been spent on a player who was good enough. Let's be honest Leadbitter, if anything, is not even as good as he was in last season. Another mstery is why Monty has got so little game time this season. My guess is that DC wanted Leadbitter to have an extended run in the side as he really rates him long term and wants him to adjust as quickly as possible to the league. His performances have been patchy but by no means consistently bad. As for why Roberts hasn't been on the bench, the answer is fairly obvious. James Clarke can fill the right back slot if required so we already have the cover in the team or on the bench. That doesn't mean that Roberts is not considered as second choice to start at right back or right wing back. He may well be much closer to starting a game than you think.
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Post by countygroundhotel on Sept 30, 2016 8:32:12 GMT
I think the unknown is will the parent club be upset if their player isn't playing? After all he could just as well be in Swansea not playing as not playing in Bristol. Clubs usually lend out players to prove their fitness or to get game time they wouldn't get otherwise ie they lend players for their benefit not ours. i just think the manager should pick the team he wants to pick for each game any other situation would be bad news imo. though i believe he will play at least v yeovil next tuesday. And I wouldn't disagree with that I'm just being realistic and saying if that means Connor Roberts doesn't get any, or significant, game time then that would affect Swansea's thinking next time we ask to borrow a player from them (and indeed any other club). Anyone that can't see that is living in cloud cuckoo land. PS don't ever recall seeing him playing so personally I've no idea whether or not he would improve the team.
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Post by peterhooper57 on Sept 30, 2016 8:57:59 GMT
DC will pick his team and deal with disgruntled players who are being regularly left out of the match day squads in his own way; although, I hope on Tuesday night he gives both Connor and Charlie a start. Personally I would also play JC-S, plus all the players who are in his mind as starters and who are not currently making the starting eleven, this logic will unfortunately backfire on old timers such as Manse, Mildy and M Mc. That's the reality of football.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2016 9:09:17 GMT
I think in a loan deal there are obvious benefits to both parties, but when they don't get played that makes the whole deal totally pointless to the parent club. That's not saying parent clubs should have a say in who we play, but we could burn some bridges doing it especially if this loan law is here to stay. Kilgour I hear is a great young prospect, the best in his age group here, but will he really be considered by having good performances playing for Borehamwood or the like? League football is a different beast as we know, although the top part of the conference is comparable to Lower L2, the bottom 3/4 of the conference are mainly garbage playing on crap pitches that wont aid any development. Somebody better tell Jamie Lucas he's wasting his time then at BW? The fact that the likes of Locks etc all played in the Conference suggests it's not a graveyard for young players.
Apart from the odd exception its good practice for when they end up there permanently, and even then its usually lower at Yate, Mangos, W-S-M , Bath etc.
Why give loan lads with zero league experience first team football and not our own?
If we are only going to put the loanees in the bench or in the stands I fail to see how this is helping us or the youngsters at our club.
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Post by Topper Gas on Sept 30, 2016 11:09:36 GMT
Somebody better tell Jamie Lucas he's wasting his time then at BW? The fact that the likes of Locks etc all played in the Conference suggests it's not a graveyard for young players.
Apart from the odd exception its good practice for when they end up there permanently, and even then its usually lower at Yate, Mangos, W-S-M , Bath etc.
Why give loan lads with zero league experience first team football and not our own?
If we are only going to put the loanees in the bench or in the stands I fail to see how this is helping us or the youngsters at our club.
Using that logic we wouldn't play any of the loanees but then next time we ask Swansea or Chelsea for players, they'd just respond with, sorry but we'd sooner send them to Yeovil etc where we know they'll get some useful game time. Just as well DC allowed Gaffers to play last season or we could well still be a Div 2 side!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2016 11:15:31 GMT
Apart from the odd exception its good practice for when they end up there permanently, and even then its usually lower at Yate, Mangos, W-S-M , Bath etc.
Why give loan lads with zero league experience first team football and not our own?
If we are only going to put the loanees in the bench or in the stands I fail to see how this is helping us or the youngsters at our club.
Using that logic we wouldn't play any of the loanees but then next time we ask Swansea or Chelsea for players, they'd just respond with, sorry but we'd sooner send them to Yeovil etc where we know they'll get some useful game time. Just as well DC allowed Gaffers to play last season or we could well still be a Div 2 side!
I welcome any help to help us win football matches. I don't agree with loans in general but its there to use and most do.
What I don't agree with is loaned players not being played and taking sub positions away from our own younger players.
I am one of the ones desperate to see Colkett start a game and see what he can do as he is very highly regarded, I just don't see the point loaning players who don't feature much.
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Post by youmadethatup on Sept 30, 2016 16:19:55 GMT
If the club is operating on mostly having players on one or two year contracts max then loans are no less part of the collective than a player with six months left on his contract. I think long term the plan will be BRFC will not need loan players so much as the academy set up will be bringing good enough youngsters through and it could be rovers are seeing players go out on year loans to league one clubs to get experience.
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Post by garystash on Sept 30, 2016 16:48:50 GMT
Personally, I don't think we should play loan players just to appease their parent clubs. That would affect the morale of our own players too much. It's been said by many that DC's man management is really good, therefore I don't believe he would do this.
DC has given some insight into how he picks teams in his latest interview. Fitness levels are now monitored and measured by a backroom team.
Maybe fitness levels are ruling Connor Roberts out of the reckoning, who knows?
What I do know is that DC will have reasons that players - loaned or otherwise - are not making the matchday squad, and I trust whatever decisions he chooses to make.
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Post by Topper Gas on Sept 30, 2016 19:12:30 GMT
DC said CR was "fit" a few weeks ago, but is a Premiership Academy/Wales U21 really going to be lacking in fitness compared to our Div 1 players, that defies any logic.
Nobody is saying that don't trust DC but it's odd we get a player in, I assume contribute towards his wages, but then don't let him anywhere near the first team squad. Given he was one of the players of the year at Yeovil last season then it's not like he's finding league football a bit too tough for him.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2016 23:34:02 GMT
is it just me that gets frustrated with these threads? we have approx 27 man squad and we can only play 11,a full back isnt a great sub and we have leadbitter,brown and james clarke who do or can play full back. why are people so concerned about upsetting ***g swansea? we have him until january,danny leadbitter who i like very much has had a few shaky games among some very good games so he may get a chance very soon but much better if danny and lee brown keep him out imo as there our own players both on 2 year deals but hey-ho we dont want to upset swansea do we? ?
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