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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2017 18:28:20 GMT
All guess work & speculation - but with an average attendance of around 9,000 - that would generate around £3.5M through 'the turnstiles' I reckon. I cannot see a playing budget in excess of £2M. That would leave £1.5M + £2.5M (apparent shortfall) Total £4M to cover support staff and stadium/training,ground running costs per annum or £80k per week. WoW! Anyone can speculate on the playing side running costs but I've tried to put some logic into my thinking - I'm sure many will differ if they wish to apply their own. As the earlier poster said the annual accounts will make interesting reading.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2017 18:38:25 GMT
All guess work & speculation - but with an average attendance of around 9,000 - that would generate around £3.5M through 'the turnstiles' I reckon. I cannot see a playing budget in excess of £2M. That would leave £1.5M + £2.5M (apparent shortfall) Total £4M to cover support staff and stadium/training,ground running costs per annum or £80k per week. WoW! Anyone can speculate on the playing side running costs but I've tried to put some logic into my thinking - I'm sure many will differ if they wish to apply their own. As the earlier poster said the annual accounts will make interesting reading. How much do we get off of the league being in L1.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2017 18:41:33 GMT
Let's not forget we are building a training complex
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Post by aghast on Apr 7, 2017 19:28:37 GMT
So basically we're losing 6/7K fans per match/fortnight which is £100K+ lost on gate receipts (5,000 x £20 per ticket), or £200K per month/£2.4M a season, if that figure is accurate then this season's annual accounts could make interesting reading! As far as leasing the UWE land, then it seems clear the Al-Q's aren't prepared to put the extra millions into the club to meet the UWE asking price. I can't see a 125 year lease as an issue at all. Many very large businesses lease their offices or factories. On the point of the commitment from the owners, from the figures you've just suggested, they are currently subsidising the club to the tune of £2.4m per annum in an attempt to build things properly.
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Post by gasincider on Apr 7, 2017 19:33:55 GMT
1) So basically we're losing 6/7K fans per match/fortnight which is £100K+ lost on gate receipts (5,000 x £20 per ticket), or £200K per month/£2.4M a season, if that figure is accurate then this season's annual accounts could make interesting reading! 2) As far as leasing the UWE land, then it seems clear the Al-Q's aren't prepared to put the extra millions into the club to meet the UWE asking price. 1) Next years accounts. The ones published this year will be up to June 2016. I would suggest the average ticket price at the Mem is £12. Remember, under 11's can get in free. OAP's get in for about a third of normal price, and adults in the Thatchers get in for about £12 per match with a season ticket, so I'd guess overall average would be about £12. That would be a potential loss of 6000x £12 x 23 = £1,650,000. Better than Toppers figures, but don't make me feel any better. 2) Or it could be the UWE don't sell the freehold. I believe you can buy the leasehold on a dwelling, can you force a sale of the leasehold on a commercial building? Grateful if anyone knows the answer.
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Post by gasincider on Apr 7, 2017 19:48:36 GMT
All guess work & speculation - but with an average attendance of around 9,000 - that would generate around £3.5M through 'the turnstiles' I reckon. I cannot see a playing budget in excess of £2M. That would leave £1.5M + £2.5M (apparent shortfall) Total £4M to cover support staff and stadium/training,ground running costs per annum or £80k per week. WoW! Anyone can speculate on the playing side running costs but I've tried to put some logic into my thinking - I'm sure many will differ if they wish to apply their own. As the earlier poster said the annual accounts will make interesting reading. How much do we get off of the league being in L1. One million per season. In the championship it's £6m
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Post by womble on Apr 7, 2017 19:54:54 GMT
1) So basically we're losing 6/7K fans per match/fortnight which is £100K+ lost on gate receipts (5,000 x £20 per ticket), or £200K per month/£2.4M a season, if that figure is accurate then this season's annual accounts could make interesting reading! 2) As far as leasing the UWE land, then it seems clear the Al-Q's aren't prepared to put the extra millions into the club to meet the UWE asking price. 1) Next years accounts. The ones published this year will be up to June 2016. I would suggest the average ticket price at the Mem is £15. Remember, under 11's can get in free. 2) Or it could be the UWE don't sell the freehold. I believe you can buy the leasehold on a dwelling, can you force a sale of the leasehold on a commercial building? Grateful if anyone knows the answer. If I understand the original proposal correctly, then we were not proposing to build the stadium on a leasehold basis (i.e. where we would own the stadium for a fixed period of time), but own the stadium while paying a peppercorn ground rent for 125 years for the land it stood on. The commercial value of the lease for the land was around £8m and was to be paid for by UWE getting the stadium naming rights in exchange. Sorry that doesn't really answer your question, but I think it might not apply in our potential situation. I remember my grandmother paying around £2 a year ground rent, for the land her Victorian terraced house stood on. She owned the house.
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Post by Topper Gas on Apr 7, 2017 19:55:30 GMT
If the rumours were true about UWE wanting the commercial going rate for the land then there's no "forcing" to be done we just need to pay what they wanted? What we can't do is force them to accept a lower price.
Although the Hewlett Packard involvement may mean buying the land was never going to be a realistic option in the first place, if they were insisting on a cut of the sale price.
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Post by chippenhamgas on Apr 7, 2017 20:04:02 GMT
So we have the 6th biggest average attendance in the division and a bottom ten budget but our break even crowd is 15k. How does that work? I guess increased staffing, problem money spent just traveling and staying over, operating costs etc. You have to bear in mind the break even attendance will be higher as the stadium doesnt generate money like a new ground would So just to get this clear, for the last few years pre wael we've been losing about 1m per year on gates of 6-6500 so that would equate to break even of 8-8500. Now on gates of 9300 we need a 15k break even gate. Our playing budget now is probably little different to when we had lots of high earners like o'toole and clarkson, maybe even less. An extra 6000 fans equates to around 2.5m of revenue. So what are we effectively spending that on that creates the gap? Or maybe i'm missing something!!
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Post by You can call me Al. on Apr 7, 2017 20:06:05 GMT
Edited Thread Title.
Thanks in advance.
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Post by garystash on Apr 7, 2017 20:11:25 GMT
If the rumours were true about UWE wanting the commercial going rate for the land then there's no "forcing" to be done we just need to pay what they wanted? What we can't do is force them to accept a lower price. Although the Hewlett Packard involvement may mean buying the land was never going to be a realistic option in the first place, if they were insisting on a cut of the sale price. I was under the impression that in the terms of UWE's purchase from HP was a clause that meant they couldn't sell the land for commercial use or something. If we are leasing it then maybe that is the reason? Well whatever, we're all as clueless as each other - with some slightly less so.
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Post by garystash on Apr 7, 2017 20:12:37 GMT
Edited Thread Title. Thanks in advance. You'll have to edit it again next month now :-)
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Post by oldgas on Apr 7, 2017 20:42:45 GMT
I was hoping to read Severnciders summary of the SC meeting in WSM last night, attended by MS & SH.
Is there any chance of posting please?
Many thanks.
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Post by oldgas on Apr 7, 2017 20:44:12 GMT
I was hoping to read Severnciders summary of the SC meeting in WSM last night, attended by MS & SH.
Is there any chance of posting please?
Many thanks.
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yattongas
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Post by yattongas on Apr 7, 2017 20:45:39 GMT
I think this 15k to break even is a load of tosh. There's no way on this earth that expenditure has gone up that much.
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Post by Captain Jayho on Apr 7, 2017 20:57:41 GMT
I think this 15k to break even is a load of tosh. There's no way on this earth that expenditure has gone up that much. It does seem an extraordinary jump in outgoings in a relatively short period of time. Would love to know the breakdown of where that money is being spent. Pretty concerning news if true - though I'd be more inclined to believe it if Wael had said it rather than our resident loose cannon Hamer.
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stuart1974
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Post by stuart1974 on Apr 7, 2017 20:59:13 GMT
If the rumours were true about UWE wanting the commercial going rate for the land then there's no "forcing" to be done we just need to pay what they wanted? What we can't do is force them to accept a lower price. Although the Hewlett Packard involvement may mean buying the land was never going to be a realistic option in the first place, if they were insisting on a cut of the sale price. I was under the impression that in the terms of UWE's purchase from HP was a clause that meant they couldn't sell the land for commercial use or something. If we are leasing it then maybe that is the reason? Well whatever, we're all as clueless as each other - with some slightly less so. Speak for yourself, I know even less than that!
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Post by Topper Gas on Apr 7, 2017 21:14:10 GMT
1) Next years accounts. The ones published this year will be up to June 2016. I would suggest the average ticket price at the Mem is £15. Remember, under 11's can get in free. 2) Or it could be the UWE don't sell the freehold. I believe you can buy the leasehold on a dwelling, can you force a sale of the leasehold on a commercial building? Grateful if anyone knows the answer. If I understand the original proposal correctly, then we were not proposing to build the stadium on a leasehold basis (i.e. where we would own the stadium for a fixed period of time), but own the stadium while paying a peppercorn ground rent for 125 years for the land it stood on. The commercial value of the lease for the land was around £8m and was to be paid for by UWE getting the stadium naming rights in exchange. Sorry that doesn't really answer your question, but I think it might not apply in our potential situation. I remember my grandmother paying around £2 a year ground rent, for the land her Victorian terraced house stood on. She owned the house. That's the same as all leasehold arrangements, the problems start when you have to renegotiate the leasehold at the end of the lease. Although I guess it'll be our grandchildren (?) who'll have to worry about that when it happens! I guess the Al-Q's had three options, pay what the UWE wanted, agree the leasehold or just walk away. At least they didn't take the last option. Plus perhaps a "partnership" with the UWE may offer the club more protection in the good long term than just going it alone.
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Post by gaelgas on Apr 7, 2017 21:27:01 GMT
If we do build the stadium and have the land on a 125 year lease would there be anything to stop us trying to buy it a few years down the line if we are in a position too? I think it's not uncommon for the freehold to be bought at a later date as long as both parties are agreeable.
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Post by gasincider on Apr 7, 2017 22:03:28 GMT
1) Next years accounts. The ones published this year will be up to June 2016. I would suggest the average ticket price at the Mem is £15. Remember, under 11's can get in free. 2) Or it could be the UWE don't sell the freehold. I believe you can buy the leasehold on a dwelling, can you force a sale of the leasehold on a commercial building? Grateful if anyone knows the answer. If I understand the original proposal correctly, then we were not proposing to build the stadium on a leasehold basis (i.e. where we would own the stadium for a fixed period of time), but own the stadium while paying a peppercorn ground rent for 125 years for the land it stood on. The commercial value of the lease for the land was around £8m and was to be paid for by UWE getting the stadium naming rights in exchange. Sorry that doesn't really answer your question, but I think it might not apply in our potential situation. I remember my grandmother paying around £2 a year ground rent, for the land her Victorian terraced house stood on. She owned the house. Ground rent and leasehold are two completely different things.
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