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Post by LJG on Apr 20, 2021 15:57:23 GMT
I can give u one coach who has spectacular failed Jack Mesure when Garner was sacked he should have gone with him You're just saying that because you're a Mesure hater with a personal grudge against Jack Mesure.
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Post by LJG on Apr 20, 2021 15:55:26 GMT
Mods lets delete this embarrassing thread please. The Widdrington haters are just going to come on here moaning about Widdrington because they have a personal grudge against him.
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Post by LJG on Apr 20, 2021 15:50:07 GMT
Because everything is everyone else's fault apart from r Joey?
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Post by LJG on Apr 20, 2021 15:49:24 GMT
Personally I wish Ben Garner good fortune, it certainly did work out here as manager but I’m sure he did his best by his own beliefs. I hope he has a good career . Good luck Ben. Is this some sort of Derren Brown, Paul McKenna thing?
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Post by LJG on Apr 20, 2021 15:47:22 GMT
But we do know he's right LJG. If we supporters can see it then he is hardly showing a bad attitude. It is no different than loads on here loved to hear from DC week in week out. Its hardly ground breaking to say in public that a team that is totally imbalanced has not been put together negligently. Did you not see that this was the case LJG??? How can you say you disagree with them all and then say others don't know because you obviously don't either! You don't know. You don't know anything. Who are the medical staff that are underperforming and what are the issues they've caused? Who are the coaches that have failed and what is it that entitles you to say they've failed? You don't know. If you're talking solely about his comments about the squad - he knew the squad before he came in, he'd watched the DVDs remember? So he should keep his comments about that issue- which he was well aware of before he joined- for behind closed doors and shut his mouth about everything else apart from what happens on the pitch in front of the camera. I can say that I disagree with him publicly slagging the club to the press because I've seen him publicly slag the club to the press. The only thing I need to know to say I disagree with that is that he slags the club to the press.
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Post by LJG on Apr 20, 2021 14:42:58 GMT
LJG His results are bad- I agree. His attitude is bad- No-disagree-his attitude is first class, the players are questionable. As regards what he says it is the truth- the club has been poorly run by the Manager and TW since GC left. Even most supporters could see that the squad was totally imbalanced and also there was a question mark over the fitness of some players. We seemed to have an abundance of midfield players but Upson was the only one with much in thhe way of experience and that did not fill me with confidence. The fact we had about 7 left backs and three strikers ,none of whom had a record for scoring goals in this division was all mentioned pre season and then when it proved to be correct Tisdale came in and signed us a goalkeeper who was not much better than JVS and another full back. Is there much you disagree with what JB has said? I feel the negligence displayed BEFORER he came in is little short of disgusting and the only way we could have reversed the trend was bringing in somebody like Neil Wornack who would have quite a few out of contract players who he would "call on" to help him out. New players was the only way we were going to stay up. I see no point whatsoever now in p0aying off another Managers contract before giving him a fair chance to bring his own players in. I disagree with all of the criticisms he has levelled at the club in the press yes. Whether or not there is truth to them (lets face it you don't know and nor does anyone else outside the club) is irrelevant. Those are conversations for within the organisation not to the press week in week out. If you think publicly slagging the organisation that pays your wages every single Monday, Tuesday, Friday and Saturday is a first class attitude, I'm glad we don't work together.
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Post by LJG on Apr 20, 2021 13:11:10 GMT
Can you at least quote what I actually said, Topper? What else do you call someone who whinges and moans about anyone and everyone instead of taking responsibility for their own performance? Why is pointing out the fact that he has pointed his finger at everyone but himself personal? It's his professional failing. your embarrassing yourself 🤣 *you're
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Post by LJG on Apr 20, 2021 13:10:53 GMT
But he bears no responsibility if we go down? So he's only responsible for positive outcomes not negative ones? LJG its a collective if we stay up (unlikely) or go down. This isn’t just about JB - it’s about a whole series of things. I don’t think anyone is saying JB has no responsibility if (when) we are relegated - it will be all 3 of the managers we’ve had, plus to a larger extent the players, and Tommy , Martyn and Wael (for allowing certain things to happen). Everyone can argue over who has the greatest apportionment of blame but no one will agree as there are so many influencing factors - quality of opposition, ability to recruit (or not), players availability at the time, the quality of refereeing etc etc. The question is what do we do going forward. Irrespective of whatever division were in do you believe a) we keep JB on as we believe in his capability as a manager/coach or b) we sack him as we don’t believe in him - everything else around him like his historical misdemeanours, his court case etc is just noise and from a pure footballing perspective is irrelevant. You may not like him as a person but if he’s a good manager and coach then that shouldn’t matter. My personal opinion is that I believe performances have generally been better under JB and whilst we don’t have the results I can see something in the improved performances that makes me think he is the right person to continue with. He talks sense and I think he will deliver given the chance. I also don’t think sacking yet another manager is the right way to go for a number of reasons including credibility / reputation of the club, financial cost and I genuinely don’t see any one else out there who is available who is any better. I’m not sure who people are thinking will come in if we did sack JB. Finally, I also don’t believe all of the hype in the press about JB - they have continually used him as a whipping boy to sell stories sensationalising much of what’s happened and I also believe there are 2 sides to every story. I’m not condoning any of the actions JB took btw just that I think the press may have made more out of things because a) it’s JB and he had a reputation/persona and b) sensationalism sells stories and grabs readers. I may be proven wrong in that I believe he is the right person for us long term, but my personal view is that he is the right person I don't know why people keep telling me JB's personal misdemeanors shouldn't impact my opinion of him as a football manager ... they don't. I've never mentioned his personal misdemeanors in my criticism of him as a football manager. My criticisms are: - his results are bad - his attitude is bad Nothing to do with him being a career criminal. I don't see how you can say he talks sense. He runs down the club and players in the press and has done since he came in. Like I said - talking about what you're going to change next season after relegation when you've got 8 games to play doesn't seem like talking sense to me. I'm not suggesting we sack him now but, no matter how often anyone asks for some evidence that he should be allowed to have any directional influence over the club no one can answer other than to say "he's played in the prem ...".
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Post by LJG on Apr 20, 2021 11:45:35 GMT
LJG, If he kept us up now he would be the bloody Messiah! But he bears no responsibility if we go down? So he's only responsible for positive outcomes not negative ones?
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Post by LJG on Apr 20, 2021 10:53:48 GMT
He's been doing that since we arrived. That's why we're in this mess. And he's soon got nobody left to blame but the garbage collectors and himself. I think I know which he'll choose. For me, I've come into this situation expecting bins to be collected when I want them. It's absolutely disgraceful that bins are only being picked up once a week. At Fleetwood we had bins collected every day. I've operated at the very top level of football where bins are taken every 4 minutes and only at amateur level is it as bad as this for bins.
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Post by LJG on Apr 20, 2021 10:39:15 GMT
Maybe your wife just wants you to answer the question she asked. Why don't you want to tell me if you would have given Barton credit if he'd picked up a couple of good wins to keep us up? I wasn't ignoring the question I missed it because I am wound up, I need to take a chill pill, I would give him lots of credit yes of course. He is fighting a losing battle though isn't he My opinion is if you are going to credit people with success they need to take part of the responsibility for failings. I agree it's a difficult job to come into a sinking team and turn it around but not an impossible one and one which can be done by retaining professionalism and not trying to burn the club you've joined to the ground in the press every week. I also think the job could be easier if with 8 games (a possible 24 points) you don't start talking about what you're going to do next season after you've been relegated.
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Post by LJG on Apr 20, 2021 10:26:05 GMT
do you know what, your worse than my wife. Maybe your wife just wants you to answer the question she asked. Why don't you want to tell me if you would have given Barton credit if he'd picked up a couple of good wins to keep us up?
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Post by LJG on Apr 20, 2021 10:23:58 GMT
I remember that - and foolishly believed it too! Older and wiser now and not expecting a quick return to be at all easy or even that likely. We were arrogant back then and it royally blew up in our faces. To have gone from top of Division Two in Feb/March 2000, to relegated in May 2001, I think a lot of us felt that Division Three was be a walk in the park....wind forward 12 months and only Halifax finished below us. Shocking decline! Yup saved by the fact 2 up 2 down came in at the end of that season. The season after was the Andy Rammell 20th place finish. We never finished in the top half of the league until we went up via play offs in 07.
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Post by LJG on Apr 20, 2021 10:19:44 GMT
Ok thanks for clearing that up. So because it's not his team if we stay up Barton deserves zero credit. tell you what, I am going to go round my area and get a load of kids together to make a team up, I will then send them to you and I want you to beat Bradley Stoke kids team, if you don't win then you are 100% to blame And what if I win?
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Post by LJG on Apr 20, 2021 10:02:56 GMT
What are you giving him credit for if we go down? I have said it a thousand times before and to be honest I'm bored bloody stiff of saying now, it's not his team it Garners, if it was Bartons team my views would be different but its not.I believe in giving the bloke a chance with his own team, if he fails then then fair enough but at least give him a chance to see what he can do. Ok thanks for clearing that up. So because it's not his team if we stay up Barton deserves zero credit.
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Post by LJG on Apr 20, 2021 9:32:42 GMT
Same question to you - if he keeps us up he gets no credit as far as you're concerned? some of our fans are fickle, he will be the best thing since sliced bread if he keeps us up, he gets credit from me when we go down or if the unthinkable happens and he keeps us up, let's be honest we are not staying up we are the worst team in this league What are you giving him credit for if we go down?
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Post by LJG on Apr 20, 2021 9:29:27 GMT
LJG, So you think its ok to call your clubs Manager that? What else can he do apart from get some boots on and attempt to put things right himself. It has been clear from when he came in that he has been seeking to put right a football team that was going in the wrong direction with his hands tied behind his back. Anyone who thinks otherwise I am afraid is deluded. A team with defenders and goalkeeper who pretty well every game concede ridiculous goals together with an attack that struggles to score is going one place and that is not League 1 safety. The only people who got us in that downward spiral were TW,BG and PT. The only thing that has really changed is that we have lost Rodman ,Grant ,Nicholson ,Ehmer and we cannot do anything about that. To be honest when you use such words to describe the Manager then the rest of what you write really is worthless and clearly shows a personal grudge. The time for criticising the Manager is if his rebuild does not go well and then he can be personally blamed for the failure. I firmly believe the only way we could have been saved from relegation this season was to appoint a Manager who had four or five out of contract players to bring with him. I keep asking the question but no one wants to answer - if we stay in this league do you give Barton any credit for that?
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Post by LJG on Apr 20, 2021 8:39:45 GMT
This is such a weak argument. People can call out the professional ability of a manager or a player without it being personal. This constant refusal to acknowledge that there is legitimate criticism to be levelled at Barton and just trying to bully people out of their point by saying "you've got some personal grudge" is ridiculous. Only the mentally deranged would actually have a personal grudge against a football manager or player (remember that guy who ran on the pitch after Craig Stanley?) Talking about Barton's failings is no more a personal grudge than the posters saying "Widdrington out" or "the Widdrington haters who only hate him because of who he is" as I'm going to start calling them. Then again you can just looking at posters previous posts and it soon becomes clear they have a personal grudge against JB i.e. calling him a f... scouse p...k etc Can you at least quote what I actually said, Topper? What else do you call someone who whinges and moans about anyone and everyone instead of taking responsibility for their own performance? Why is pointing out the fact that he has pointed his finger at everyone but himself personal? It's his professional failing.
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Post by LJG on Apr 20, 2021 8:34:58 GMT
All the same people moaning about JB like when he first walk through the door. Get a grip, no manager can sort this team out! Garner and tisdale had transfer windows to try and sort this team out and they didn't address the problems we had. Give JB a chance to sort his own team out, he will sort it out. I know I will fully be behind him and trust he will take us forward next season. exactly my thoughts, same ones not giving him a chance and want him To fail, any dig they can throw they will Same question to you - if he keeps us up he gets no credit as far as you're concerned?
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Post by LJG on Apr 20, 2021 8:34:15 GMT
All the same people moaning about JB like when he first walk through the door. Get a grip, no manager can sort this team out! Garner and tisdale had transfer windows to try and sort this team out and they didn't address the problems we had. Give JB a chance to sort his own team out, he will sort it out. I know I will fully be behind him and trust he will take us forward next season. So if he keeps us up Barton won't deserve any card for that?
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