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Post by LJG on Apr 20, 2021 8:32:09 GMT
At this stage if I'm joey, I'm forgetting about results or staying up and start planning for L2 next and who we should keep etc. He's been doing that since we arrived. That's why we're in this mess.
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Post by LJG on Apr 20, 2021 8:29:21 GMT
Barton will be gone at the very first opportunity he gets, mark my words. That is why, for me, it is incredibly dangerous allowing him to perform a "great reset". The bloke will only be here another year at most, I'll put my mortgage on it. Can I ask you a genuine question, mate? If he does accomplish what he states he is here for, rebuilds the side/club, gets us going towards the promised land of the Championship over the next few years, will you acknowledge it? Or will you just find other reasons to hate the bloke? Cos it is all sounding increasingly like a personal grudge with you & a couple of others. I’m neither a lover or a hater of Barton, but I want to see Rovers get back to L1 and beyond and if that means having him as manager then so be it. This is such a weak argument. People can call out the professional ability of a manager or a player without it being personal. This constant refusal to acknowledge that there is legitimate criticism to be levelled at Barton and just trying to bully people out of their point by saying "you've got some personal grudge" is ridiculous. Only the mentally deranged would actually have a personal grudge against a football manager or player (remember that guy who ran on the pitch after Craig Stanley?) Talking about Barton's failings is no more a personal grudge than the posters saying "Widdrington out" or "the Widdrington haters who only hate him because of who he is" as I'm going to start calling them.
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Post by LJG on Apr 20, 2021 8:05:06 GMT
Isn't the point that it was obvious Garner should never have been given that opportunity? Garner should have been given the opportunity. What the board should have done was either sacked him at the end of last season after 1 win 18 or whatever it was or kept him until December when we had a much better idea of where we were at this season. Carlts could be right, he could have kept us up, but also he could have capitulated and given his record in 30 odd games, the poor style of play he was promoting, I can understand him getting the sack. What was a mistake was appointing Tisdale and then not strengthening in January. Our season was salvageable, but we were down the moment that window closed. Gross mismanagement of resources right there. Sorry, this is what I meant by never given the opportunity. We saw how bad he was last season so he should never have been allowed to build his own squad. I'm of the same opinion about Barton. We're seeing someone fail. That's not a reason to start giving them whatever they demand.
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Post by LJG on Apr 19, 2021 23:04:01 GMT
I've just got a new job as a manager, the staff are always off sick, and they can't do their job correctly because they are not the right grade, the old boss has left now and my manager is blaming me for it all even though I have only been in the job a few weeks, don't you think that's a bit unfair of my boss? Don't you think your boss might want to know why you can't sort this out when you told him in your interview you could? You said you'd watched videos of every minute those workers have worked under the previous manager. You knew exactly what was going on when you came in and said you could fix it. Why did you tell me you could fix it if you can't? Why are results worse now you're in charge than they were the previous two blokes who you publicly called sh**? Don't you think your boss might be asking that sort of thing?
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Post by LJG on Apr 19, 2021 21:29:43 GMT
So are you saying we are not competitive in most games and our style of play has gone backwards since he has arrived. Again no manager could have coped with losing your best players in Nicholson,Rodman and even Grant who got alot of undue criticism but is sorely missed and was getting better every game he played under JB. And to be left with 3 strikers with 2 that can't hit a barn door and are certainly not league one standard and Westbrooke who was meant to be are marquee signing but has been very disappointing for the majority of the season. Losing Ehmer for me wasn't a bad thing as he has been nothing but poor this season but was meant to be our leader and pivotal centre half. Yes our defence make mistakes but watch the games most teams make massive mistakes our problem is we have noone to capatilise on them which is a major recruitment failure not Bartons fault. There are plenty of things that have gone wrong this season and this is a total different scenario than Garner who had a January transfer window as soon as he got here and inherited a team who were full of confidence when he arrived and he had JCH to score goals for him so that comparison is poor. Why shouldn't JB be given the chance to do things his way and get a transfer window and pre season to see what he can do or should we just fire another manager and keep the revolving door moving. Well said, hopefully a few others on here can stop comparing apples with oranges and give JB the same chance that Garner and to a lesser extent Tisdale had. Isn't the point that it was obvious Garner should never have been given that opportunity?
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Post by LJG on Apr 19, 2021 21:28:48 GMT
What's he said this time? The cleaning lady is a lady garden? The bloke who turns on the overhead projector is a prick? Showers too cold? Soup too hot? Doesn't like the carpet in the clubhouse? Very close. Well not to worry. He'll soon be in charge of the whole shooting match and can change it for whatever he wants.
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Post by LJG on Apr 19, 2021 21:21:27 GMT
Too old to cut and paste but love Joey's interview with Sam Frost, he will get us into the championship and when he does I'm going to do a GGMI boom on this post. Appreciates he has not done a good job but wow what some uppercut repostes. What's he said this time? The cleaning lady is a lady garden? The bloke who turns on the overhead projector is a prick? Showers too cold? Soup too hot? Doesn't like the carpet in the clubhouse?
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Post by LJG on Apr 19, 2021 21:18:37 GMT
Roverdrive, Why should we take your bias opinion of JB. I am sure we are all capable of making our own minds up without your constant running the bloke down . What should I think about Kilgour this weekend?
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Post by LJG on Apr 19, 2021 20:58:29 GMT
There is nothing to say Barton can't successfully improve the squad over the summer, of course there are no guarantees he can. That would be the same with any manager. What is clear however is that a lot of our players simply aren't good enough so I've no worries about him having a clear out. There are very few I'd be sorry to see leave. As for staff, given how poorly things have gone over the past 18 months I'm not sure many could complain if they were replaced. Again, I can't think of many I'd be sorry to lose. Changes are clearly necessary and somebody has to make them so it might as well be Barton and his management team that are already here on 2.5 year contracts. I would imagine there is something in his contract just in case he gets a custodial sentance but I don't think he'd have got the job if we thought that was likely. If he leaves to join another club at least we'll get compensation. Hopefully the changes he'll make in the summer would leave us in a better situation even if that does happen but I've heard nothing to suggest Barton is going to walk out, in fact in most interviews he says the complete opposite. I'm not predicting anything but I'm optimistic we can have a good season after the big changes planned for the summer. If not, Barton will be gone in October / November. That's all there is in that really isn't there - hope. The same hope that the changes Garner made wouldn't leave us up sh** creek but instead of just changing the team you want Barton to change the whole club. This is so clearly a terrible idea that the absolute best outcome is it's not a total f**k up. It wouldn't be considered even for a second in any other walk of life that someone at third tier (i.e. below board level then below salaried director level) management in an organisation who was on a fixed term 2.5 year contract would be allowed to call the shots on altering the endemic structure of that organisation. Like a branch manager re-organising the investment banking arm of HSBC. It's so obviously idiotic I honestly can't believe some people are actively in favour of it.
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Post by LJG on Apr 19, 2021 16:11:40 GMT
The only restructuring Garner did at the club was in his dreams. We had and have an established hierarchy in place. Garner came in below that. The conversation in relation to Barton is clearly that the hierarchy etc be changed to suit him. Completely different and completely unearned on Barton's part. Why all the talk then about our DNA, never heard GC or DC talking about that and implementing bringing in a a group of youngsters etc to set that plan in motion. BG clearly did that, did he not? As regards what JB has suggested, loads on here think we should rid ourselves of TW and MS after what has happened since GC left. As regards the medical department, it would appear.from a distance they have hardly covered themselves in glory. It sounds like you're agreeing with me? Garner came in under Starnes and Widdrington. As for the rest of it "loads on here think" .. brill ... loads on here think a lot of pea-brained nonsense doesn't mean they should be running a football club.
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Post by LJG on Apr 19, 2021 15:30:01 GMT
I think that’s where some of this argument has got lost. I wouldn’t sack him either or we’d be viewed as an absolute circus by future candidates and potential future players. However, his performance is sh!t and it seems that any comments pointing that fact out seem to be met with reluctance to accept it, pointless antagonist replies or people assuming your saying he must be sacked! Based on the fact that his results have been terrible I personally don’t want a previous colleague of his carrying out a review of what’s wrong at the club with JB in control of restructuring it. I’d get an independent person in to carry out the review, let the board make the recommended changes and let Barton get on with simply managing the team. At least that way if he fails it’s not a structure tailored to his failure. It’s worth noting that despite the structures implemented at Fleetwood they have fallen from a play off team to 14th and although I’d give my left testicle for Rovers to 14th right now it hardly seems like the structure has promoted progress. Even if people feel performances have marginally improved under JB has he really done anything that suggests he should be let loose to restructure the club? Not for me! Your last sentence begs the question, why was Ben Garner let loose to restructure the club last Summer after his previous six months in charge? Very strange that nobody seemed to complain about that at the time in spite of him taking us on an alarming slide down the table from was it third or fourth position when he came in. The only restructuring Garner did at the club was in his dreams. We had and have an established hierarchy in place. Garner came in below that. The conversation in relation to Barton is clearly that the hierarchy etc be changed to suit him. Completely different and completely unearned on Barton's part.
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Post by LJG on Apr 19, 2021 13:22:34 GMT
What I don't get is the old addage that football managers are judged by results.... Yes if you're Garner.... Yes if you're Tisdale.... No if you're Barton.... And the results are there.... Makes no sense.... I agree to some extent, but that kind of argument totally ignores the elephant in the room that in order to get results, you need to first put together a squad. To put together a squad to your liking, you need a transfer window. Garner and Tisdale have had that opportunity to do that, Barton hasn’t. So you’re partially correct as so far as a manager can influence results by working with the squad of players he already has, but to be truly on par with his predecessors so we can come to a judgement fairly Barton needs to change to add and get rid. Again- would you give him zero credit if he keeps us up?
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Post by LJG on Apr 19, 2021 12:59:27 GMT
Great post Jomo. Unfortunately there are a number of fans who are so utterly infatuated with Barton, they refuse to accept he has any responsibility whatsoever and is completely and utterly blameless in all of this. I think it's almost uncanny, the resemblance to the whole Trump situation. And before anyone gets the hump - NO - I'm not implying Barton supporters are Trump supporters! What I mean is, with Trump, there were a (fairly sizeable group) of supporters who completely refused to have anything bad said against him. For all his wrongdoings, there was always an excuse. For me, I see it as almost a carbon-copy of the Barton situation. There are some in the middle (Hugo by the sounds of it for example) who did definitely support Barton but doesn't think he's blameless and is open to the idea that one day, he might not see it as a good appointment. There are unfortunately others who refuse to have anything bad said against their messiah. I mean take the "Joey Barton, I bloody love you x" thread - I genuinely puked in my mouth. The most cringeworthy, butt-kissing thread I've ever seen in my life. Get a f**king grip, for crying out loud. I like to consider myself in the middle group despite starting this thread.
I'm not saying Barton has got everything right but I do feel for the reasons previously mentioned that he is less responsible for our position than Garner and Tisdale.
Barton, Hill and Mangan were signed on 2.5 years contacts and are probably on a pretty decent wage. They now know our players strengths and weaknesses so should be well placed to decide on what improvements are necessary in the summer.
There are no guarantees whoever we have in charge, so at this stage so I'd like to give Barton and his team the summer to make the changes they've been brought here to do.
Will he be a success? I've no idea, but I'll be judging him in October / November and if we haven't made a positive start to next season I'll probably be one of the first to call for his head.
" ... it’s my job to take them outside and put them out of their misery".
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Post by LJG on Apr 19, 2021 12:54:09 GMT
What I don't get is the old addage that football managers are judged by results.... Yes if you're Garner.... Yes if you're Tisdale.... No if you're Barton.... And the results are there.... Makes no sense.... And equally the people saying that Barton takes no responsibility for bad results refuse to say that they would give him zero credit if he keeps us up. Why? If everything other than recruitment is beyond his control?
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Post by LJG on Apr 19, 2021 9:17:51 GMT
o Clarke should be a player we get back to the club next season. A player who knows what this club is about and would certainly put some fire back into the team I can't recall many posters posting that last season? Perhaps instead of scrapping the Academy we need to work out why it's hardly producing any 1st team players. Not sure if being in London make it hard for Brentford to pick up the best youngsters but easy to pick up ex Premiership Academy players? If we scrap the Academy that's another line of potential youngs fans gone, pretty soon we'll have no fans left! You've been reading too much stevek. I've always said Ollie is quality and I was sorry to see him go.
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Post by LJG on Apr 19, 2021 8:53:24 GMT
This all makes those people saying that Premier League B Teams would never happen because it's all talk just like the European Super League look less convincing now ...
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Post by LJG on Apr 18, 2021 22:22:41 GMT
So if he'd won every game since he came in Barton would deserve zero credit for that? 3 managers haven’t achieved that with these players. There’s your answer How can three managers not have achieved winning all the games that Barton has been manager? There's only been one manager in the time Barton has been manager: Joey Barton. So, now that's cleared up, tell me, if Barton had gone on an incredible winning streak instead of a dismal losing streak or even if it looked like he was going to keep us up ... you would give him zero credit for that?
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Post by LJG on Apr 18, 2021 19:50:05 GMT
I am not advocating sacking JB but this comment sums up the whole problem. As soon as JB walked through the door he WAS managing HIS team. Its called Bristol Rovers. It doesn't matter who recruited the players, JB's job was to 'own' them and manage them, not to look for scapegoats it case he fails. Let's see if he can redeem himself in the next 4 games. absolute nonsense? It’s not his team, you can only work with what you have in front of you. Unfortunately he’s been given a massively unbalanced weak side So if he'd won every game since he came in Barton would deserve zero credit for that?
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Post by LJG on Apr 18, 2021 19:24:56 GMT
I don't know if it's intentional but every time we go up to div one . We lose millions of pounds : the squad is in disarray : we sack managers and end up worst than we were before. I know in div one wage budgets for us is around £4 million and some sides in div two survive on £1 million budgets . So when I say division One is too big for us . What I mean is it gets us in trouble and is it worth it ?. Well if you want to support a team that is going to be in L2 for the next years then that's up to you but I know I don't. Need to show some ambition. Fair weather blow in. Two a penny.
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Post by LJG on Apr 18, 2021 19:23:03 GMT
baggins number plate TO 55 POT is timeless. I got NE1 4ABJ dirt cheap.
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