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Post by markczgas on Nov 12, 2017 12:56:35 GMT
This is a question to the likes of Sean, Steve K and others who go to most AWAY games, what's happened to us Away ?
From about the middle of last season and of course all this season - you kind of know that we are gonna get beaten by any team in the top half of the table / or any of the "big " clubs. Why do you think this ROT has happened ?
Is it DC's tactics, is it not keeping the ball enough, poor keeping and defending or a combination of a few things ?
Another worrying stat is we've barely scored away - 9 goals crammed into those 2 wins BUT barely another goal in all the rest ?
Ive only seen the whole of Bradford and Shrews games this season - I have to say those 2 teams were far sharper than us plus our players not getting anywhere near tight enough to the opposition in and around our box. Basically, we looked to easy to beat. Interested to hear from others.
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Post by smudge1 on Nov 12, 2017 13:24:48 GMT
I go to the majority of away games. My opinion on why our form has dropped, certainly this season, is because of the midfield set up. We have needed a decent defensive midfielder, D.C. has had to play Lines in a position that in my opinion does not play to his strengths. Away from home we should have a more compact midfield and should no way be playing Sercs or Lines together. The defence, who themselves, have not played to previous high standards, have been put under pressure. The writing was on the wall at the end of last season when our away form was woeful (especially Gills and Posh). We are a below average league 1 team who due to the squad size and the loss of international call ups have struggled. Sometimes we need to make ourselves difficult to beat and try to win on the break. We need a minimum of four experienced players to assist us to solidify the group. D.C. needs to look at his set up away from home as 4 3 3 is not working.
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Post by Colyton Gas on Nov 12, 2017 13:36:24 GMT
Strange how he chooses not to play the loanees he signed even though we're stretched in numbers.Surely Telford wouldn't score any less than Nicholls.Bola was superb at Wolves but seems he like Sweeney has lost his sharpness which as he rarely features isn't perhaps surprising.
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Post by Jomo on Nov 12, 2017 13:42:05 GMT
I don't go to away games so certainly don't pretend to know anywhere near as much as those that do, but from the outside it would seem logical that the form can be at least somewhat attributed to the fact that we're now in a higher division, and a division we probably weren't expecting to be in quite so soon after our relegation to the Conference. Momentum goes a long long way in sport, and we had it in abundance coming into L1. I think it's safe to say that momentum has now expired. It happens to a lot of promoted clubs. I'd say Swansea and Bournemouth are good examples of Premier League clubs whose momentum has started to run out, hence why they're now struggling. In my opinion DC would have done an amazing job to keep us in the upper reaches of L1 this season. This season I think we need to ride it out and stay up, hopefully in mid table, then maybe even again next year, before slowing kicking on towards the next level. Hopefully this won't come across as having no ambition, it's more a case of being realistic.
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Nov 12, 2017 14:10:34 GMT
Agree
I think we still have a group of over achieving L2 players.
Sadly I think some of them need replacing with lower end L1 players who DC will then get over achieving again.
Players like Sercombe and Bodin are our only real quality players. We need some real quality through the middle. It's a bit much to expect 2 completely untried L1 newbies to be fulfilling the CB role.
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Post by lastminutewinner on Nov 12, 2017 15:00:53 GMT
Agree I think we still have a group of over achieving L2 players. Sadly I think some of them need replacing with lower end L1 players who DC will then get over achieving again. Players like Sercombe and Bodin are our only real quality players. We need some real quality through the middle. It's a bit much to expect 2 completely untried L1 newbies to be fulfilling the CB role.IMO the mistake was signing Hartley instead of his Plymouth partner Curtis Nelson. Had we done that, we would have one less CB position to worry about at the moment. You are completely right Sercombe and Bodin are our only real quality players. Look at yesterday, the biggest threats for Scunny (fast, tricky wingers) are something DC seems reluctant to add to the ranks...?
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Post by casey12a on Nov 12, 2017 15:36:35 GMT
I think it's our lack of another defensive midfielder. We've played at our best when Ollie Clarke has played well. Unfortunately he's had an inconsistent season.
Somebody mentioned needing another when we didn't sign one in the summer. I said in DC I trust but I'm happy to admit I was wrong.
That's not a knock on DC as I definitely still think he's the best manager we can have at the moment and none of us know what agents/clubs wanted for any of his targets.
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Post by gasincider on Nov 12, 2017 16:01:52 GMT
I go to all the away games, and we are not an over achieving league 2 team, we are an over achieving conference team.
Yesterday, we even tried playing a formation of 6-4-0 and still couldn't get the point that in fairness we probably deserved, but which I dread to see replicated in home games.
We have no one who can beat defenders for pace, Leads who was ok yesterday in defence continues to go down the line, but stops when challenged, and still can't cross a ball. Biggest problem yesterday was he continually threw the ball to the opposition. Maybe he needs glasses.
Brown needs replacing, but we missed out in the summer of poor recruitment.
Not convinced by either keeper. Smith again yesterday left Broadbent high and dry on one occasion in the first half.
Lines continues to do exactly nothing. He was by far the poorest player on the pitch yesterday.
Sincs was ok.
Sercombe ok, but no movement or forwards at times ahead of him to create anything.
Broadbent again did well.
Menayaisee (?) Brilliant. Cue being dropped next week.
Harrison brilliant again up front and in defence.
Gaffney, well, he's gaffers isn't he. Tries hard but not good enough.
Nicholls, needs to be played on the last man, with a big guy up front with him.
Yesterday, Gaffney and Harrison played as full backs as much as they did up front.
Seems DC is at a loss what to do next. What he mustn't do is drop Broadbent or Menayaisee. Wouldn't bet on it though would you? We have become so predictable. Other clubs know how we will play before we do. Either the tinkering must stop, or we will be in real danger of relegation.
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Post by Thatslife on Nov 12, 2017 16:18:15 GMT
I seem to recall that Tom Lockyer and Ollie Clark both played in the defensive midfield together.
We have enough centre halfs to allow Lockyer to play that defensive role again. We know he is quick and can tackle but his biggest attribute I believe he has is being able to read the game, just whats needed in the midfield.
Play Broadbent and Menayaisee with Lockyer in front if them.
One last point, BRFC are no good at hoof ball and havent been since the days of Devon White !!!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2017 16:23:47 GMT
I don't go to away games so certainly don't pretend to know anywhere near as much as those that do, but from the outside it would seem logical that the form can be at least somewhat attributed to the fact that we're now in a higher division, and a division we probably weren't expecting to be in quite so soon after our relegation to the Conference. Momentum goes a long long way in sport, and we had it in abundance coming into L1. I think it's safe to say that momentum has now expired. It happens to a lot of promoted clubs. I'd say Swansea and Bournemouth are good examples of Premier League clubs whose momentum has started to run out, hence why they're now struggling. In my opinion DC would have done an amazing job to keep us in the upper reaches of L1 this season. This season I think we need to ride it out and stay up, hopefully in mid table, then maybe even again next year, before slowing kicking on towards the next level. Hopefully this won't come across as having no ambition, it's more a case of being realistic. Weren't we in this division last year? If so the standard of players teams etc shouldn't have come as a shock having had 46 games to become accustomed to it
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Post by axegas on Nov 12, 2017 16:24:25 GMT
I go to all the away games, and we are not an over achieving league 2 team, we are an over achieving conference team.
Yesterday, we even tried playing a formation of 6-4-0 and still couldn't get the point that in fairness we probably deserved, but which I dread to see replicated in home games. We have no one who can beat defenders for pace, Leads who was ok yesterday in defence continues to go down the line, but stops when challenged, and still can't cross a ball. Biggest problem yesterday was he continually threw the ball to the opposition. Maybe he needs glasses. Brown needs replacing, but we missed out in the summer of poor recruitment. Not convinced by either keeper. Smith again yesterday left Broadbent high and dry on one occasion in the first half. Lines continues to do exactly nothing. He was by far the poorest player on the pitch yesterday. Sincs was ok. Sercombe ok, but no movement or forwards at times ahead of him to create anything. Broadbent again did well. Menayaisee (?) Brilliant. Cue being dropped next week. Harrison brilliant again up front and in defence. Gaffney, well, he's gaffers isn't he. Tries hard but not good enough. Nicholls, needs to be played on the last man, with a big guy up front with him. Yesterday, Gaffney and Harrison played as full backs as much as they did up front. Seems DC is at a loss what to do next. What he mustn't do is drop Broadbent or Menayaisee. Wouldn't bet on it though would you? We have become so predictable. Other clubs know how we will play before we do. Either the tinkering must stop, or we will be in real danger of relegation. An over acheiving conference team that finished tenth last season and are five points off the playoffs this season? I know results haven't gone our way in the last few games but surely even you don't think we have a team of players worthy of playing in Non league? The way I see it, we are an under performing bottom half league one team that are lacking in a few key area's. We also have 4-5 players who aren't good enough to start if we want to be a top six side in this division. We need to bring in a CB with experience in this division or higher, a more defensive minded midfielder who can give some protection to the defence and put a tackle in and a left sided winger to give us more width as I suspect DC has us play such a narrow formation because we don't have the quality out wide. I think that we will continue to be decent at home, so we won't have to worry about a relegation struggle, but unless we significantly improve, even a top 15 finish will be beyond us. Some supporters will be frustrated with a season neither going that far forward or backwards but it might not be a bad thing if we can get things started off the field.
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Post by Raj Gas on Nov 12, 2017 17:03:09 GMT
I question how many sides play 4-3-3 away from home when only two (I think only Ellis and Rory) of the front 6 can realistically defend.
I am unable to go to away games so far this season but to fellow Gasheads who do travel I would be interested in whether you would be happy if we were to set up more defenisvely away from home?
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Post by gregsy on Nov 12, 2017 17:43:36 GMT
I seem to recall that Tom Lockyer and Ollie Clark both played in the defensive midfield together. We have enough centre halfs to allow Lockyer to play that defensive role again. We know he is quick and can tackle but his biggest attribute I believe he has is being able to read the game, just whats needed in the midfield. Play Broadbent and Menayaisee with Lockyer in front if them. One last point, BRFC are no good at hoof ball and havent been since the days of Devon White !!!Bit of an insult to 'dev' that, for a big guy he had decent feet, ok pace and was good at reading play.... To suggest he was instrumental at the long ball game would be incorrect....
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Post by Nortongashead on Nov 12, 2017 18:32:55 GMT
I go to about half the away games on average a season, there are a few reasons for me why away form has demised.
1. We have become predictable, 4-3-3 leaves our defence exposed by our midfield. I remember managers saying they would not have a clue how are going to set up. The poor summer transfer window has left us without quality in wide positions as well as midfield defensively.
2. Certain players have found their level and when they are not in form they are not good enough for L1.
3. As mentioned on another thread lack of leaders. Losing the likes of Manse, Mildy, Easter, Macca and Hartley over time has made it a lot harder to go and storm a fortress.
4. DC has been found out by other decent managers (not the poor ones). We are in L1 for a second season against some very seasoned good managers, teams do their homework and know our weaknesses namely no quality out wide.
5. The club has had momentum since the conference, this has now plateaued. The ALQ feel good factor has gone since the UWE fell though and funds have come under scrutiny. The club and supporters no longer have the feel good factor about the future.
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Post by seanclevedongas on Nov 12, 2017 18:58:15 GMT
Personnel and Tactics
We have come along way in a short time and last season a bit of momentum from the previous 2 years carried us through along with Taylor's and then Bodin's goals.
Our recruitment this summer was disappointing and we did not get the quality and numbers we needed to push us on and give us more strength in depth.
We lack 2 goal scoring strikers to supplement Ellis and Gaffers, we have little attacking pace especially out wide and without Bodin these last few weeks we have looked very poor going forward.
We have yet to get the balance right in midfield and lack a quality CDM.
In defense we need a settled back 5 and the constant changing doesn't achieve that. Back in 1989/90 I think Nigel Martyn then Parkin had virtually the same back four in front of them for virtually every minute of the season (V Jones 20man Yatesy and Jocky )
I prefer Slocombe over Dracula just but neither fill me with confidence like many of the keepers did in our past (Eddie Thomas Cashley Carter Martyn Parkin Culkin Philips)
DC knows where we are lacking but his hands are tied by the budget and lack of gifted cash from the owners (I know most on here would splash the cash if we had it just like SL does for the dark side) He didn't get his number 1 targets in the summer and had to make do with 2 unwanted keepers and 2 players formerly from Exeter who for personal reasons were happy to come here and be closer to home.
The gung ho approach is entertaining to watch for 20 mins but when the goals start flying in at the wrong end you realise it was a short shot of gratification which ultimately ends up unsatisfying.
On the other hand if we sit back deep and rely on catching the opponents on the break (ala Woolery on Wednesday for Swindle) you have to have the pace and quality to make it count which we don't. DC used this tactic yesterday when he swapped Nichols for Parts and we didn't get a sniff.
We were unlucky at a number of away games last season and deserved more points away from home than we got.
So far this season I think we should of had and deserved a point at Charlton and Rochdale.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2017 19:04:21 GMT
Personnel and Tactics We have come along way in a short time and last season a bit of momentum from the previous 2 years carried us through along with Taylor's and then Bodin's goals. Our recruitment this summer was disappointing and we did not get the quality and numbers we needed to push us on and give us more strength in depth. We lack 2 goal scoring strikers to supplement Ellis and Gaffers, we have little attacking pace especially out wide and without Bodin these last few weeks we have looked very poor going forward. We have yet to get the balance right in midfield and lack a quality CDM. In defense we need a settled back 5 and the constant changing doesn't achieve that. Back in 1989/90 I think Nigel Martyn then Parkin had virtually the same back four in front of them for virtually every minute of the season (V Jones 20man Yatesy and Jocky ) I prefer Slocombe over Dracula just but neither fill me with confidence like many of the keepers did in our past (Eddie Thomas Cashley Carter Martyn Parkin Culkin Philips) DC knows where we are lacking but his hands are tied by the budget and lack of gifted cash from the owners (I know most on here would splash the cash if we had it just like SL does for the dark side) He didn't get his number 1 targets in the summer and had to make do with 2 unwanted keepers and 2 players formerly from Exeter who for personal reasons were happy to come here and be closer to home. The gung ho approach is entertaining to watch for 20 mins but when the goals start flying in at the wrong end you realise it was a short shot of gratification which ultimately ends up unsatisfying. On the other hand if we sit back deep and rely on catching the opponents on the break (ala Woolery on Wednesday for Swindle) you have to have the pace and quality to make it count which we don't. DC used this tactic yesterday when he swapped Nichols for Parts and we didn't get a sniff. We were unlucky at a number of away games last season and deserved more points away from home than we got. So far this season I think we should of had and deserved a point at Charlton and Rochdale.
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Post by GasAttacK on Nov 12, 2017 19:20:12 GMT
I go to about half the away games on average a season, there are a few reasons for me why away form has demised. 1. We have become predictable, 4-3-3 leaves our defence exposed by our midfield. I remember managers saying they would not have a clue how are going to set up. The poor summer transfer window has left us without quality in wide positions as well as midfield defensively. 2. Certain players have found their level and when they are not in form they are not good enough for L1. 3. As mentioned on another thread lack of leaders. Losing the likes of Manse, Mildy, Easter, Macca and Hartley over time has made it a lot harder to go and storm a fortress. 4. DC has been found out by other decent managers (not the poor ones). We are in L1 for a second season against some very seasoned good managers, teams do their homework and know our weaknesses namely no quality out wide. 5. The club has had momentum since the conference, this has now plateaued. The ALQ feel good factor has gone since the UWE fell though and funds have come under scrutiny. The club and supporters no longer have the feel good factor about the future. I've been to all the away games with the exception of Bradford - which I watched on the box - and I have to agree with most of that. 4-3-3 seems like the only formation we can play with the players we've got. We tried 5-3-2 at Rochdale for 20 minutes and could have been 3 down. Nobody seemed to have a clue what they were doing and Rochdale were playing through us with worrying ease. The tried and tested 4-4-2 is no longer working for a number of reasons. Firstly Bodin is our only decent wide player but I also think DC seems reluctant not to play at least 3 of Clarke, Lines, Sercombe and Sinclair; none of whcih are effective on the wing and played in a diamond leaves the full backs too exposed. I think most of us feel Sinclair is probably playing above his level and both Lines and Clarke have not managed to reproduce last years form. This means that despite bringing in Sercombe - who I do rate - we are weaker in midfield and seem to lose the midfield battle in most away games. It is beginning to look like a number of our players are not good enough for L1 but the problem we have is it sounds like we need to move some out to bring new faces in during January. That won't be easy. We do have a lack of leaders. Lockyer and Clarke have captained the side this season but both are struggling for form themselves. With the exception of Lines we have a fairly young squad which is fine when things are going well but not so great when you're on a bad run. I'm realistic, I never expected us to be challenging for a top 6 finish but even with a bottom 6 infratstructure, a mid table budget and top 6 crowds I feel we should be somewhere between 16th & 10th. That is where we stand at the moment - until Walsall and Oldham play their games in hand at least - but we need to reverse the current poor run quickly if we're not to be dragged into a real relegation battle.
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Post by Jomo on Nov 12, 2017 20:04:50 GMT
I don't go to away games so certainly don't pretend to know anywhere near as much as those that do, but from the outside it would seem logical that the form can be at least somewhat attributed to the fact that we're now in a higher division, and a division we probably weren't expecting to be in quite so soon after our relegation to the Conference. Momentum goes a long long way in sport, and we had it in abundance coming into L1. I think it's safe to say that momentum has now expired. It happens to a lot of promoted clubs. I'd say Swansea and Bournemouth are good examples of Premier League clubs whose momentum has started to run out, hence why they're now struggling. In my opinion DC would have done an amazing job to keep us in the upper reaches of L1 this season. This season I think we need to ride it out and stay up, hopefully in mid table, then maybe even again next year, before slowing kicking on towards the next level. Hopefully this won't come across as having no ambition, it's more a case of being realistic. Weren't we in this division last year? If so the standard of players teams etc shouldn't have come as a shock having had 46 games to become accustomed to it Maybe read my post again? I specifically used momentum as my reasoning for our form this year. Momentum I believe carried us a long way last year in our first season back in L1, which is now not carrying us anymore. The whole "we've had a year in L1 now, so we should be used to it" I totally don't buy. Sure, it makes sense on the face of it, but in reality it does not work, as has been seen time and time and time again, look at Northampton and Wimbledon again as teams that came up with us, who are struggling even more than we are. I genuinely believe confidence and momentum have a massive role to play. I just hope we don't get sucked in my negative momentum which has taken Yeovil back down the leagues faster than they went up them in the first place. DC is doing a great job still all things considered, we need to stay strong and ride this out, and we'll be ok.
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Post by WeAreTheGas on Nov 12, 2017 20:49:54 GMT
Personnel and Tactics We have come along way in a short time and last season a bit of momentum from the previous 2 years carried us through along with Taylor's and then Bodin's goals. Our recruitment this summer was disappointing and we did not get the quality and numbers we needed to push us on and give us more strength in depth. We lack 2 goal scoring strikers to supplement Ellis and Gaffers, we have little attacking pace especially out wide and without Bodin these last few weeks we have looked very poor going forward. We have yet to get the balance right in midfield and lack a quality CDM. In defense we need a settled back 5 and the constant changing doesn't achieve that. Back in 1989/90 I think Nigel Martyn then Parkin had virtually the same back four in front of them for virtually every minute of the season (V Jones 20man Yatesy and Jocky ) I prefer Slocombe over Dracula just but neither fill me with confidence like many of the keepers did in our past (Eddie Thomas Cashley Carter Martyn Parkin Culkin Philips) DC knows where we are lacking but his hands are tied by the budget and lack of gifted cash from the owners (I know most on here would splash the cash if we had it just like SL does for the dark side) He didn't get his number 1 targets in the summer and had to make do with 2 unwanted keepers and 2 players formerly from Exeter who for personal reasons were happy to come here and be closer to home. The gung ho approach is entertaining to watch for 20 mins but when the goals start flying in at the wrong end you realise it was a short shot of gratification which ultimately ends up unsatisfying. On the other hand if we sit back deep and rely on catching the opponents on the break (ala Woolery on Wednesday for Swindle) you have to have the pace and quality to make it count which we don't. DC used this tactic yesterday when he swapped Nichols for Parts and we didn't get a sniff. We were unlucky at a number of away games last season and deserved more points away from home than we got. So far this season I think we should of had and deserved a point at Charlton and Rochdale. Very good post - couldn’t agree more.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2017 21:38:54 GMT
Weren't we in this division last year? If so the standard of players teams etc shouldn't have come as a shock having had 46 games to become accustomed to it Maybe read my post again? I specifically used momentum as my reasoning for our form this year. Momentum I believe carried us a long way last year in our first season back in L1, which is now not carrying us anymore. The whole "we've had a year in L1 now, so we should be used to it" I totally don't buy. Sure, it makes sense on the face of it, but in reality it does not work, as has been seen time and time and time again, look at Northampton and Wimbledon again as teams that came up with us, who are struggling even more than we are. I genuinely believe confidence and momentum have a massive role to play. I just hope we don't get sucked in my negative momentum which has taken Yeovil back down the leagues faster than they went up them in the first place. DC is doing a great job still all things considered, we need to stay strong and ride this out, and we'll be ok. Unfortunately if you had played league football as a professional you would know that what you are promulgating is wrong The first season in any division is a steep learning curve but by the end of it you know what to expect and adjust your game to match it. Adrenalin or momentum gets you through the first month or so and after that ito learn and do so quickly
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