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Post by Topper Gas on Jan 23, 2018 22:45:26 GMT
We didn’t pay the contractors and that was the truth. I sat with one of the directors of one of the companies at a game who was being paid 1k a week for a 17k invoice. Why would he lie? I’m basing it on the facts of what Wael and Hamer said vs what they are delivering. Listen to all of it from the initial take over, when they purchased the colony to the collapse of the UWE, Hamers shocking interview on RB with GT where he mentioned details of the training ground. I want to believe they will deliver and push us forward, but there is no evidence they will do this. We are in more debt with bigger overheads than ever before with no real plan going forward. Like I said at the time - if the fencing contractors thought they had carried out the work to a sufficient standard that deserved payment why did they go back on site? Ask that director next time you see him. I've listened carefully to everything that has been said since the beginning. I listened to Garth Crooks tell Wael he could have bought any club in England and Wael reply "No, not any club". I've listened to people talking about how much money our new owners can splash to keep up with Steve Lansdown and Wael and Hamer say that theyre not going to be chucking money around. There isn't "no evidence" they will push us forward. There is evidence (DC's contract, consultation on mem redevelopment with local community, purchase of colony, pp application for first stage at colony) you've just discounted it in line with your confirmation bias. Now you of all posters are getting confused as at present all DS have done is re-apply for the old rugby facilities to be approved as far as I'm aware now pp has been sought for any development suitable for what we actually need. Whether plans for The Colony and the Mem is anybody's guess but DC keep on talking about "people working hard behind the scenes" doesn't suggest we're going to see anything major happening anytime soon. The big concern is Hani will throw in the towel once our total debts exceed our assets which is most likely in a year or so.
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Post by LJG on Jan 23, 2018 22:47:44 GMT
Like I said at the time - if the fencing contractors thought they had carried out the work to a sufficient standard that deserved payment why did they go back on site? Ask that director next time you see him. I've listened carefully to everything that has been said since the beginning. I listened to Garth Crooks tell Wael he could have bought any club in England and Wael reply "No, not any club". I've listened to people talking about how much money our new owners can splash to keep up with Steve Lansdown and Wael and Hamer say that theyre not going to be chucking money around. There isn't "no evidence" they will push us forward. There is evidence (DC's contract, consultation on mem redevelopment with local community, purchase of colony, pp application for first stage at colony) you've just discounted it in line with your confirmation bias. It’s not about chucking money around LCJ. Hamer says they spent £12m since taking over the club. On what? DC was on a conference managers contract, that would have been addressed regardless of the board but a sensible move nonetheless. The PP is for not even half the original plans they had for the site. The projected cost for a Cat 3 TG was £10m. Hani has signed off £2m. Why do you think it got scaled down. Source of that was a member of the current club not a million miles from Hamer. Talking to the community is a stage so far down the line you need to do. How about getting the plans done and then selling it to the community and getting them on board. Surely a much logical way. See. You agree the evidence is there. You're just discounting it.
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Post by gaelgas on Jan 23, 2018 22:50:30 GMT
So if we knocked down all 4 stands and built new ones it's not a new ground? Sounds like Trigger with his 25yr old brush with 4 new heads and 4 new handles. Its a re-development of an existing stadium on a site that is already not very fit for purpose. In literal terms the stands may be new but it will be a far cry from a new build stadium on a piece of land especially identified for that purpose. It will be like rolling a turd in glitter and hardly worth the effort. Oh you mean like Old Trafford or Celtic Park or Villa Park, or more relevantly to us, Easter Road or Rugby Park? Easter road was every bit of a toilet as the Mem but the Hibs board redeveloped it a stand at a time and now it's a really good 20,000 seater stadium upgradable to 27,000 if they fill the corners in.
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Post by LJG on Jan 23, 2018 22:50:57 GMT
Like I said at the time - if the fencing contractors thought they had carried out the work to a sufficient standard that deserved payment why did they go back on site? Ask that director next time you see him. I've listened carefully to everything that has been said since the beginning. I listened to Garth Crooks tell Wael he could have bought any club in England and Wael reply "No, not any club". I've listened to people talking about how much money our new owners can splash to keep up with Steve Lansdown and Wael and Hamer say that theyre not going to be chucking money around. There isn't "no evidence" they will push us forward. There is evidence (DC's contract, consultation on mem redevelopment with local community, purchase of colony, pp application for first stage at colony) you've just discounted it in line with your confirmation bias. Now you of all posters are getting confused as at present all DS have done is re-apply for the old rugby facilities to be approved as far as I'm aware now pp has been sought for any development suitable for what we actually need. Whether plans for The Colony and the Mem is anybody's guess but DC keep on talking about "people working hard behind the scenes" doesn't suggest we're going to see anything major happening anytime soon. The big concern is Hani will throw in the towel once our total debts exceed our assets which is most likely in a year or so. Silly me. I forgot the Al Qadis intend to run an amateur rugby club from the colony. That impacts my point how?
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Post by knowall on Jan 23, 2018 22:52:02 GMT
Like I said at the time - if the fencing contractors thought they had carried out the work to a sufficient standard that deserved payment why did they go back on site? Ask that director next time you see him. I've listened carefully to everything that has been said since the beginning. I listened to Garth Crooks tell Wael he could have bought any club in England and Wael reply "No, not any club". I've listened to people talking about how much money our new owners can splash to keep up with Steve Lansdown and Wael and Hamer say that theyre not going to be chucking money around. There isn't "no evidence" they will push us forward. There is evidence (DC's contract, consultation on mem redevelopment with local community, purchase of colony, pp application for first stage at colony) you've just discounted it in line with your confirmation bias. Now you of all posters are getting confused as at present all DS have done is re-apply for the old rugby facilities to be approved as far as I'm aware now pp has been sought for any development suitable for what we actually need. Whether plans for The Colony and the Mem is anybody's guess but DC keep on talking about "people working hard behind the scenes" doesn't suggest we're going to see anything major happening anytime soon. The big concern is Hani will throw in the towel once our total debts exceed our assets which is most likely in a year or so. Unfortunately, that is the problem - you are unaware and guess - and that is the basis of your opinion - take the trouble to find out and you might change your opinion which I am sure you won't because you start from the negative and end up in the negative.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2018 23:03:23 GMT
The owners havnt been at the club long.
The collapse of the UWE project must have been a blow to them as well as us.
Any fair minded fan would say they deserve more time to improve the club . Its not the owners fault city have got a new ground and a much improved team.
If a poster has substantial proof by of ill intent from the owners please bring it to our attention.
Like i said elsewhere not one single poster has produced any damning proof that the owners dont want to deliver a better football club,nobody at all.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2018 23:03:41 GMT
Its a re-development of an existing stadium on a site that is already not very fit for purpose. In literal terms the stands may be new but it will be a far cry from a new build stadium on a piece of land especially identified for that purpose. It will be like rolling a turd in glitter and hardly worth the effort. Oh you mean like Old Trafford or Celtic Park or Villa Park, or more relevantly to us, Easter Road or Rugby Park? Easter road was every bit of a toilet as the Mem but the Hibs board redeveloped it a stand at a time and now it's a really good 20,000 seater stadium upgradable to 27,000 if they fill the corners in. What sort of footprint did they have to work with? We are already on a site with very limited ability to expand and last I heard we would have a capacity that would be capped at the 18k mark at very best with no further scope for upscaling the capacity due to nearby housing. Given that, by all accounts, it is far more expensive to build on existing stadium land than to build on a new site for that sort of increase it seems hardly worth it. Mind you, whether it happens at all is obviously anybody's guess. I would really hope we are still looking for other sites but that seems as forlorn a hope as the misplaced optimism that we were behind the attempt to pro-long the planning permission at the UWE site.
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Post by Topper Gas on Jan 24, 2018 8:01:40 GMT
Now you of all posters are getting confused as at present all DS have done is re-apply for the old rugby facilities to be approved as far as I'm aware now pp has been sought for any development suitable for what we actually need. Whether plans for The Colony and the Mem is anybody's guess but DC keep on talking about "people working hard behind the scenes" doesn't suggest we're going to see anything major happening anytime soon. The big concern is Hani will throw in the towel once our total debts exceed our assets which is most likely in a year or so. Unfortunately, that is the problem - you are unaware and guess - and that is the basis of your opinion - take the trouble to find out and you might change your opinion which I am sure you won't because you start from the negative and end up in the negative. Guess what? There's no plans for a football training ground submitted to S Glos, there's also no plans submitted for the Mem regen been submitted, DC keeps on saying he's only got a bottom 6 budget and so far only signed a National League player which supports those comments. There's no tangible evidence the ALQ's are prepared to spend the money required and unless I can speak to Hani direct I doubt I will know the real answer to what the future holds. What proof can you provide?
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Post by LJG on Jan 24, 2018 8:50:27 GMT
Unfortunately, that is the problem - you are unaware and guess - and that is the basis of your opinion - take the trouble to find out and you might change your opinion which I am sure you won't because you start from the negative and end up in the negative. Guess what? There's no plans for a football training ground submitted to S Glos, there's also no plans submitted for the Mem regen been submitted, DC keeps on saying he's only got a bottom 6 budget and so far only signed a National League player which supports those comments. There's no tangible evidence the ALQ's are prepared to spend the money required and unless I can speak to Hani direct I doubt I will know the real answer to what the future holds. What proof can you provide? You're clearly our resident planning permission expert, topper. Since you sleuthed the UWE situation so well - really blew that secret stadium plan wide open. You obviously know what to look out for and what it all means.
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Post by gashead1981 on Jan 24, 2018 9:13:45 GMT
It’s not about chucking money around LCJ. Hamer says they spent £12m since taking over the club. On what? DC was on a conference managers contract, that would have been addressed regardless of the board but a sensible move nonetheless. The PP is for not even half the original plans they had for the site. The projected cost for a Cat 3 TG was £10m. Hani has signed off £2m. Why do you think it got scaled down. Source of that was a member of the current club not a million miles from Hamer. Talking to the community is a stage so far down the line you need to do. How about getting the plans done and then selling it to the community and getting them on board. Surely a much logical way. See. You agree the evidence is there. You're just discounting it. It's not that I am discounting evidence LCJ, its the way the club is being run and how the new owners want to be something like Abramovich who can sit in his ivory tower and not be questioned when there are many irregularities and lack of logic from statements from our chairman that at time contradict the actual circumstances at the club. There is no evidence of the over £12m investment at the moment...and Hamer wouldn't say/didnt know what it was when he was pushed by GT. We have no evidence exactly of that. The added backroom team, a scoreboard, some hand driers and a shoddy pitch surface in no way amount to £12m. So what is this £12m and where has it gone? DC contract is basic club running regardless of who is in charge. Even if DC left and we employed another manager, we would have to pay a L1 salary, which would be in the realms of DC's wages now. The talk of the colony and the stadium regen is cheap until official plans are signed off and the diggers are in. The issue I have had all along since the ALQ's pulled the plug on UWE was that there was no official explanation from WAQ/Dwane and there is no plan B. Negotiations with UWE went on for over a year and in that time a draft plan b could have been done in the event that a deal wasn't not concluded. Even to see if the mem was viable or not. The club own all the old plans and documents already. Now the time being taken to think, draft, act, plan, approve and put the finance in place takes circa 12 months. The prudent thing to would be do that whilst you negotiate with UWE, it may even have gotten you the deal that you wanted from UWE. But none of it has been done. That is why I said, months back now, if we don't get planning in by this seasons close, we won't be playing in any form of updated/new stadium by the close of the decade. And that is my real gripe. If the ALQ's were that serious like they said they were 2 years ago, then we would have seen a lot more action than we have. And on the flip side, iff we had gone with the UWE, we could have had at least one full season in it by the close of the decade and potentially moved forward a lot quicker, players being targeted would have seen us in a different light as well I am sure. It would change the whole dynamic. But a chat with the local NIMBY's doesnt constitute any form of real progress.
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Post by gashead1981 on Jan 24, 2018 9:15:55 GMT
Guess what? There's no plans for a football training ground submitted to S Glos, there's also no plans submitted for the Mem regen been submitted, DC keeps on saying he's only got a bottom 6 budget and so far only signed a National League player which supports those comments. There's no tangible evidence the ALQ's are prepared to spend the money required and unless I can speak to Hani direct I doubt I will know the real answer to what the future holds. What proof can you provide? You're clearly our resident planning permission expert, topper. Since you sleuthed the UWE situation so well - really blew that secret stadium plan wide open. You obviously know what to look out for and what it all means. Topper is looking at the facts LCJ. And as he has rightly pointed out, and unless I have missed it, there is no plans submitted for anything at the moment. You don't have to be an expert, just look at the S.Glos planning portal.
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Post by LJG on Jan 24, 2018 9:19:14 GMT
See. You agree the evidence is there. You're just discounting it. It's not that I am discounting evidence LCJ, its the way the club is being run and how the new owners want to be something like Abramovich who can sit in his ivory tower and not be questioned when there are many irregularities and lack of logic from statements from our chairman that at time contradict the actual circumstances at the club. There is no evidence of the over £12m investment at the moment...and Hamer wouldn't say/didnt know what it was when he was pushed by GT. We have no evidence exactly of that. The added backroom team, a scoreboard, some hand driers and a shoddy pitch surface in no way amount to £12m. So what is this £12m and where has it gone? DC contract is basic club running regardless of who is in charge. Even if DC left and we employed another manager, we would have to pay a L1 salary, which would be in the realms of DC's wages now. The talk of the colony and the stadium regen is cheap until official plans are signed off and the diggers are in. The issue I have had all along since the ALQ's pulled the plug on UWE was that there was no official explanation from WAQ/Dwane and there is no plan B. Negotiations with UWE went on for over a year and in that time a draft plan b could have been done in the event that a deal wasn't not concluded. Even to see if the mem was viable or not. The club own all the old plans and documents already. Now the time being taken to think, draft, act, plan, approve and put the finance in place takes circa 12 months. The prudent thing to would be do that whilst you negotiate with UWE, it may even have gotten you the deal that you wanted from UWE. But none of it has been done. That is why I said, months back now, if we don't get planning in by this seasons close, we won't be playing in any form of updated/new stadium by the close of the decade. And that is my real gripe. If the ALQ's were that serious like they said they were 2 years ago, then we would have seen a lot more action than we have. And on the flip side, iff we had gone with the UWE, we could have had at least one full season in it by the close of the decade and potentially moved forward a lot quicker, players being targeted would have seen us in a different light as well I am sure. It would change the whole dynamic. But a chat with the local NIMBY's doesnt constitute any form of real progress. You are discounting evidence because you agree that it is there. We're not arguing about whether or not the Al Qadis have done those things. We agree that they have. Its just that in your opinion those things are not enough.
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Jan 24, 2018 9:21:14 GMT
It's not that I am discounting evidence LCJ, its the way the club is being run and how the new owners want to be something like Abramovich who can sit in his ivory tower and not be questioned when there are many irregularities and lack of logic from statements from our chairman that at time contradict the actual circumstances at the club. There is no evidence of the over £12m investment at the moment...and Hamer wouldn't say/didnt know what it was when he was pushed by GT. We have no evidence exactly of that. The added backroom team, a scoreboard, some hand driers and a shoddy pitch surface in no way amount to £12m. So what is this £12m and where has it gone? DC contract is basic club running regardless of who is in charge. Even if DC left and we employed another manager, we would have to pay a L1 salary, which would be in the realms of DC's wages now. The talk of the colony and the stadium regen is cheap until official plans are signed off and the diggers are in. The issue I have had all along since the ALQ's pulled the plug on UWE was that there was no official explanation from WAQ/Dwane and there is no plan B. Negotiations with UWE went on for over a year and in that time a draft plan b could have been done in the event that a deal wasn't not concluded. Even to see if the mem was viable or not. The club own all the old plans and documents already. Now the time being taken to think, draft, act, plan, approve and put the finance in place takes circa 12 months. The prudent thing to would be do that whilst you negotiate with UWE, it may even have gotten you the deal that you wanted from UWE. But none of it has been done. That is why I said, months back now, if we don't get planning in by this seasons close, we won't be playing in any form of updated/new stadium by the close of the decade. And that is my real gripe. If the ALQ's were that serious like they said they were 2 years ago, then we would have seen a lot more action than we have. And on the flip side, iff we had gone with the UWE, we could have had at least one full season in it by the close of the decade and potentially moved forward a lot quicker, players being targeted would have seen us in a different light as well I am sure. It would change the whole dynamic. But a chat with the local NIMBY's doesnt constitute any form of real progress. You are discounting evidence because you agree that it is there. We're not arguing about whether or not the Al Qadis have done those things. We agree that they have. Its just that in your opinion those things are not enough. I'm mostly pro the AQs and even I think it's not enough!!
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Post by LJG on Jan 24, 2018 9:21:49 GMT
You're clearly our resident planning permission expert, topper. Since you sleuthed the UWE situation so well - really blew that secret stadium plan wide open. You obviously know what to look out for and what it all means. Topper is looking at the facts LCJ. And as he has rightly pointed out, and unless I have missed it, there is no plans submitted for anything at the moment. You don't have to be an expert, just look at the S.Glos planning portal. Topper looked at the South Glos planning portal and decided UWE were going ahead with the stadium so you'll have to excuse my scepticism of the "facts" that he looks at.
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Post by LJG on Jan 24, 2018 9:23:21 GMT
You are discounting evidence because you agree that it is there. We're not arguing about whether or not the Al Qadis have done those things. We agree that they have. Its just that in your opinion those things are not enough. I'm mostly pro the AQs and even I think it's not enough!! Which is a conclusion open to you. But you and I have had the "there's no evidence" conversation before. There clearly is.
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Post by peterparker on Jan 24, 2018 9:31:35 GMT
See. You agree the evidence is there. You're just discounting it. It's not that I am discounting evidence LCJ, its the way the club is being run and how the new owners want to be something like Abramovich who can sit in his ivory tower and not be questioned when there are many irregularities and lack of logic from statements from our chairman that at time contradict the actual circumstances at the club. There is no evidence of the over £12m investment at the moment...and Hamer wouldn't say/didnt know what it was when he was pushed by GT. We have no evidence exactly of that. The added backroom team, a scoreboard, some hand driers and a shoddy pitch surface in no way amount to £12m. So what is this £12m and where has it gone? DC contract is basic club running regardless of who is in charge. Even if DC left and we employed another manager, we would have to pay a L1 salary, which would be in the realms of DC's wages now. The talk of the colony and the stadium regen is cheap until official plans are signed off and the diggers are in. The issue I have had all along since the ALQ's pulled the plug on UWE was that there was no official explanation from WAQ/Dwane and there is no plan B. Negotiations with UWE went on for over a year and in that time a draft plan b could have been done in the event that a deal wasn't not concluded. Even to see if the mem was viable or not. The club own all the old plans and documents already. Now the time being taken to think, draft, act, plan, approve and put the finance in place takes circa 12 months. The prudent thing to would be do that whilst you negotiate with UWE, it may even have gotten you the deal that you wanted from UWE. But none of it has been done. That is why I said, months back now, if we don't get planning in by this seasons close, we won't be playing in any form of updated/new stadium by the close of the decade. And that is my real gripe. If the ALQ's were that serious like they said they were 2 years ago, then we would have seen a lot more action than we have. And on the flip side, iff we had gone with the UWE, we could have had at least one full season in it by the close of the decade and potentially moved forward a lot quicker, players being targeted would have seen us in a different light as well I am sure. It would change the whole dynamic. But a chat with the local NIMBY's doesnt constitute any form of real progress. Depends how you want to interpret ‘investment’ and how you have expected that money to have been spent Dwane Sports has had to put in those millions to pay off the ex-directors loans, Wonga, Sainsbury’s costs etc Just because you can’t see where the money has gone....
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Jan 24, 2018 9:47:50 GMT
I'm mostly pro the AQs and even I think it's not enough!! Which is a conclusion open to you. But you and I have had the "there's no evidence" conversation before. There clearly is. I'm not disagreeing with you.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2018 9:58:13 GMT
Don't think I am an idiot, others will surely disagree, but the twelve million was surely what it cost to buy the club. That in my book is classed as an investment. Or if I am wrong in my assumption can those in the know let us know whether they were given the club for free.
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Post by gashead1981 on Jan 24, 2018 10:06:02 GMT
It's not that I am discounting evidence LCJ, its the way the club is being run and how the new owners want to be something like Abramovich who can sit in his ivory tower and not be questioned when there are many irregularities and lack of logic from statements from our chairman that at time contradict the actual circumstances at the club. There is no evidence of the over £12m investment at the moment...and Hamer wouldn't say/didnt know what it was when he was pushed by GT. We have no evidence exactly of that. The added backroom team, a scoreboard, some hand driers and a shoddy pitch surface in no way amount to £12m. So what is this £12m and where has it gone? DC contract is basic club running regardless of who is in charge. Even if DC left and we employed another manager, we would have to pay a L1 salary, which would be in the realms of DC's wages now. The talk of the colony and the stadium regen is cheap until official plans are signed off and the diggers are in. The issue I have had all along since the ALQ's pulled the plug on UWE was that there was no official explanation from WAQ/Dwane and there is no plan B. Negotiations with UWE went on for over a year and in that time a draft plan b could have been done in the event that a deal wasn't not concluded. Even to see if the mem was viable or not. The club own all the old plans and documents already. Now the time being taken to think, draft, act, plan, approve and put the finance in place takes circa 12 months. The prudent thing to would be do that whilst you negotiate with UWE, it may even have gotten you the deal that you wanted from UWE. But none of it has been done. That is why I said, months back now, if we don't get planning in by this seasons close, we won't be playing in any form of updated/new stadium by the close of the decade. And that is my real gripe. If the ALQ's were that serious like they said they were 2 years ago, then we would have seen a lot more action than we have. And on the flip side, iff we had gone with the UWE, we could have had at least one full season in it by the close of the decade and potentially moved forward a lot quicker, players being targeted would have seen us in a different light as well I am sure. It would change the whole dynamic. But a chat with the local NIMBY's doesnt constitute any form of real progress. Depends how you want to interpret ‘investment’ and how you have expected that money to have been spent Dwane Sports has had to put in those millions to pay off the ex-directors loans, Wonga, Sainsbury’s costs etc Just because you can’t see where the money has gone.... Peter, I am a businessman myself, (I am not saying this to show off but this is how business works for the majority) I own a couple of businesses and have taken over a couple of companies in my time as well as run companies at board level, so I think I know what I am talking about. Now when I took over a business, I made the initial purchase, that isn't classed as investment, as I have bought a going concern, whether its profitable or not, its still a going concern. That would include purchasing the shares of the existing directors, settling or restructuring the businesses finances as I see fit. At this point, , I haven't invested in anything other than my own portfolio. The going concern simply becomes my responsibility for the existing employees. The ALQ's have done exactly as above. Now if I decide to expand by building or updating additional facilities, replace, buy or maintain more equipment, hire more staff etc etc then that is investment. The money spent is an expected return at some point. I will admit there has been some investment in BRFC, but £12m worth? Really? So you cannot confuse the two. Because one is purchase and one is investment. Companies house accounts won't confuse the two, so why is it fans want to confuse the two? On that basis, Hamer could not and still hasn't ever said what or where that £12m has gone. The company filed accounts will also show that to be true or false. And covering off operating losses also isn't classed as investment, but injection. To keep the company as a going concern or quite simply, it will go bust.
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Post by knowall on Jan 24, 2018 10:17:37 GMT
Don't think I am an idiot, others will surely disagree, but the twelve million was surely what it cost to buy the club. That in my book is classed as an investment. Or if I am wrong in my assumption can those in the know let us know whether they were given the club for free. I disagree with your assessment of what you are. Please tell - Wonga, previous directors, The Colony, DC contract, new players - 'spent' 'investment' what is the difference? in your mind.
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