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Post by peterparker on Dec 13, 2017 10:35:20 GMT
Evolution not revolution. If we are going to be sustainable then we need an initial outlay to do this. To generate a sustainable future then we need to have a good return on our investments. If i was a new owner of a football club i would want to maximise this asap. Which isn't what we are seeing currently IMO. With minimal/no investment into these commercial streams of income then there will be no increase in wages or transfers to support the football team. A new carpet/hand dryers/bogs is not going to sell more beer or generate a higher attendance. I think the owners have massively underestimated the actual investment needed to be self-sufficient to enable the club to keep our best players and progress through the leagues. That may be so, but they don’t need to spend any of the money they currently have if that’s the case, racking up a debt they will be unlikely to get back anytime soon I think some people need to row back a bit. Take the Al-Qadi’s out of the equation for a minute. What are people’s realistic expectations? I was no great fan of Nick Higgs and the previous BoD and the running of the club, but they could only finance the club to a point. The Al-Qadi’s can only to it to a point and Joe Bloggs, or Fred Smith will only be able to. Again unless we can find someone with a large pile of cash willing to loan it to us and then write it off, we have to work in a different plain to the likes of Lansdown .
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Post by Henbury Gas on Dec 13, 2017 12:05:02 GMT
Evolution not revolution. If we are going to be sustainable then we need an initial outlay to do this. To generate a sustainable future then we need to have a good return on our investments. If i was a new owner of a football club i would want to maximise this asap. Which isn't what we are seeing currently IMO. With minimal/no investment into these commercial streams of income then there will be no increase in wages or transfers to support the football team. A new carpet/hand dryers/bogs is not going to sell more beer or generate a higher attendance. I think the owners have massively underestimated the actual investment needed to be self-sufficient to enable the club to keep our best players and progress through the leagues. Remind me how long it took Brighton to get their new stadium.. All aspects of planning permissions and applications there of take a little thing called....... TIME it has only being a few weeks since the UWE project was dropped and you expect results by now The club have been active in the background seeking opinion from both our Mayor of Bristol and the locals near the stadium. All this information plus loads of other stuff like Traffic plans etc need to resolved before a coherent plan can be put before the council So its a case of Wait and see at the moment
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Post by philbemmygas on Dec 13, 2017 12:06:40 GMT
Evolution not revolution. If we are going to be sustainable then we need an initial outlay to do this. To generate a sustainable future then we need to have a good return on our investments. If i was a new owner of a football club i would want to maximise this asap. Which isn't what we are seeing currently IMO. With minimal/no investment into these commercial streams of income then there will be no increase in wages or transfers to support the football team. A new carpet/hand dryers/bogs is not going to sell more beer or generate a higher attendance. I think the owners have massively underestimated the actual investment needed to be self-sufficient to enable the club to keep our best players and progress through the leagues. Remind me how long it took Brighton to get their new stadium.. All aspects of planning permissions and applications there of take a little thing called....... TIME it has only being a few weeks since the UWE project was dropped and you expect results by now The club have been active in the background seeking opinion from both our Mayor of Bristol and the locals near the stadium. All this information plus loads of other stuff like Traffic plans etc need to resolved before a coherent plan can be put before the council So its a case of Wait and see at the moment Don't be so reasonable; we want our cake stadium and we want it now - stamp stamp
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2017 12:19:08 GMT
It is totally wrong to compare MK Dons with our situation unless you want Rovers to move several hundred miles away from Bristol. The whole project surrounding MK Dons stadium cost a fortune and was put together by a record producer Pete Winkelman in association with Adsa and Ikea. The stadium is fantastic but survives because of the retail aspect - which is exactly where the UWE deal falls short apparently. MK Dons still have yet to fill the capacity but it is ready for Premiership football if they can get a team worthy of the step up. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stadium_mk#Milton_Keynes_Stadium_ConsortiumI disagree. If MK have found a formula then we would be very wise to look at their formula. The point you make about the UWE is accurate I think. Personally I never believed the project as shown displayed any tenable revenue streams of the value needed to make the club viable. For this alone (if true) the reasons to not do it are very real. That doesn't excuse the time taken to realise that and makes Dwayne Sports business planning look a bit silly.
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Post by blueridge on Dec 13, 2017 12:49:09 GMT
Evolution not revolution. If we are going to be sustainable then we need an initial outlay to do this. To generate a sustainable future then we need to have a good return on our investments. If i was a new owner of a football club i would want to maximise this asap. Which isn't what we are seeing currently IMO. With minimal/no investment into these commercial streams of income then there will be no increase in wages or transfers to support the football team. A new carpet/hand dryers/bogs is not going to sell more beer or generate a higher attendance. I think the owners have massively underestimated the actual investment needed to be self-sufficient to enable the club to keep our best players and progress through the leagues. Remind me how long it took Brighton to get their new stadium.. All aspects of planning permissions and applications there of take a little thing called....... TIME it has only being a few weeks since the UWE project was dropped and you expect results by now The club have been active in the background seeking opinion from both our Mayor of Bristol and the locals near the stadium. All this information plus loads of other stuff like Traffic plans etc need to resolved before a coherent plan can be put before the council So its a case of Wait and see at the moment Um - could you have a quite word with DC the next time you see him and put him straight as well.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2017 13:03:26 GMT
It is totally wrong to compare MK Dons with our situation unless you want Rovers to move several hundred miles away from Bristol. The whole project surrounding MK Dons stadium cost a fortune and was put together by a record producer Pete Winkelman in association with Adsa and Ikea. The stadium is fantastic but survives because of the retail aspect - which is exactly where the UWE deal falls short apparently. MK Dons still have yet to fill the capacity but it is ready for Premiership football if they can get a team worthy of the step up. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stadium_mk#Milton_Keynes_Stadium_ConsortiumI disagree. If MK have found a formula then we would be very wise to look at their formula. The point you make about the UWE is accurate I think. Personally I never believed the project as shown displayed any tenable revenue streams of the value needed to make the club viable. For this alone (if true) the reasons to not do it are very real. That doesn't excuse the time taken to realise that and makes Dwayne Sports business planning look a bit silly.Dwane Sports takeover has made everyone look silly. All the talk from Wael about Rovers needing a new stadium, talk of billionaire owners, carrying Wael down Gloucester Road...now look at us. There was a video posted on the other forum of a Football Focus interview with Wael interviewed by Garth Crooks and the comment was made along the lines of "with the money you have you could take over any club in the Premiership, why Bristol Rovers?". It would be funny if it weren't for the fact it is the latest in a seemingly never ending cycle of false dawns.
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Post by peterhooper57 on Dec 13, 2017 13:05:05 GMT
We have a fantastic core support, it is the one thing we have which the S*** despise. Without our support there is no BRFC. I must admit when Waq & Nani rolled into town I thought the future would be rosy; unfortunately, what they meant by "slow evolution" is they would buy the club and its debt and then moth ball it until they can move it on at a profit, based on possible potential.
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Post by Henbury Gas on Dec 13, 2017 13:12:08 GMT
Remind me how long it took Brighton to get their new stadium.. All aspects of planning permissions and applications there of take a little thing called....... TIME it has only being a few weeks since the UWE project was dropped and you expect results by now The club have been active in the background seeking opinion from both our Mayor of Bristol and the locals near the stadium. All this information plus loads of other stuff like Traffic plans etc need to resolved before a coherent plan can be put before the council So its a case of Wait and see at the moment Um - could you have a quite word with DC the next time you see him and put him straight as well. DC has is own agenda which nothing to do with what he has said
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Post by chippenhamgas on Dec 13, 2017 13:15:06 GMT
I’m currently working in Milton Keynes and staying in the Double Tree hotel, for those who don’t know it, it’s situated within the MK Dons football stadium. Every time I go back to my room after work a feeling of envy comes over me. It really is a fantastic stadium fit for the premiership, but it’s not just the stadium that makes me envious. Although I’m not sure about the business particulars with regards to who owns the ground and who gets the generated revenue, I can’t help but be in awe of the amount of revenue streams their are. I briefly counted at least 8 seperate premises incorporated within the stadium, these included but wasn’t limited to bars, gym, hotel, restaurants and conference spaces, and these were only on one side of the stadium. Just think of all the ground rents being generated as revenue for the club, it truly makes me wonder why MK dons are so sh1t. I’m envious of the car park and surrounding area which is home to a brand new eating and drinking area. The stadium is in my opinion truly brilliant yet modest, I would happily see the gas in this “souless bowl”. The words revenue streams and Bristol Rovers don’t mix, I mean what do we actually have? Match day tickets, club shop and hospitality, it’s no wonder we can’t pay players high salary’s or even the minimum wage. We need this type of setup to progress and that why the Mem will never be a viable option. This brings me to the other part of the thread title ‘crossroad’. For me Bristol rovers are at a crossraod, one way will either allow us to progress to a sustainable club, or the other to our eventual extinction. I say this because we are, as much as people hate to admit it massively effected by our friends across the river. I talk in terms of future potential generations of fans. At the moment we are tinpot...yes I said it, but we do offset that by only being one league behind, plus if we had plans to build a new stadium, regardless of our league position we would capture the hearts of Bristol’s youth by having the underdog appeal. If we were in the championship but still at the Mem we would match their level thus also attracting future fans. Even if they got promoted to the prem and we stayed in league 1 but still had the prospect of a new state of the art ground, we would still recruit support. The problem i fear is that they may well get promoted to the prem. This is a problem not because I’m jealous or hate them, it’s because it leaves us in a precarious position where we cannot attract the the fans of the future. Languishing in league one without two pennies to rub together will not appeal to the young, especially when another team In bristol plays agains the likes of Chelsea, Manchester United etc in a big stadium with good facilities. Yes we will always maintain our die hard gas fanbase but this in time will fade as the individuals on the terraces age and pass. Generations truly lost. I genuinely fear for our future. We need investment, new stadium, and most importantly new revenue streams just to even stay in the race let alone win it. I believe we need to start organising peacefull protests, nothing aggressive, hostile, nasty or offensive just a way of showing how we fear that without proper investment by any ownership that the club will die. We need to stress that evolution will be too little too late. I admit I don’t have the answers to our woes or have 100million to put in to the club. Some you will be just as happy to watch us in the conference, I respect your loyalty but I for one will not. Did not mean this to be too negative, just wanted to express the urgency of our situation and see If people had an appetite to mobilise the fan base in a peaceful manner and put pressure on our owners. possibly the best post i have ever seen on here.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2017 13:34:32 GMT
Trouble is football club ownership is now for the billionaires rather than millionaires. Dreams of a new stadium or complete redevelopment of the Mem would need to be fianced and even with a modest 5% interest charge on a new £40m stadium could cost £2m in interest alone and add that to the £2m a year we are alledgedly losing with a modest playing budget means that huge new income streams would be needed for the finances to work. Just can't see who would take the financial risk. Without a ambitious owner with deep pockets willing to take a big risk then it's all a pipe dream I'm afraid.
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Post by Antonio Fargas on Dec 13, 2017 13:40:02 GMT
Trouble is football club ownership is now for the billionaires rather than millionaires. Dreams of a new stadium or complete redevelopment of the Mem would need to be fianced and even with a modest 5% interest charge on a new £40m stadium could cost £2m in interest alone and add that to the £2m a year we are alledgedly losing with a modest playing budget means that huge new income streams would be needed for the finances to work. Just can't see who would take the financial risk. Without a ambitious owner with deep pockets willing to take a big risk then it's all a pipe dream I'm afraid. Yeah, and you'd still be competing against teams with that income up and running already, not paying interest, and still spending beyond their means.
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Post by Antonio Fargas on Dec 13, 2017 13:40:29 GMT
I’m currently working in Milton Keynes and staying in the Double Tree hotel, for those who don’t know it, it’s situated within the MK Dons football stadium. Every time I go back to my room after work a feeling of envy comes over me. It really is a fantastic stadium fit for the premiership, but it’s not just the stadium that makes me envious. Although I’m not sure about the business particulars with regards to who owns the ground and who gets the generated revenue, I can’t help but be in awe of the amount of revenue streams their are. I briefly counted at least 8 seperate premises incorporated within the stadium, these included but wasn’t limited to bars, gym, hotel, restaurants and conference spaces, and these were only on one side of the stadium. Just think of all the ground rents being generated as revenue for the club, it truly makes me wonder why MK dons are so sh1t. I’m envious of the car park and surrounding area which is home to a brand new eating and drinking area. The stadium is in my opinion truly brilliant yet modest, I would happily see the gas in this “souless bowl”. The words revenue streams and Bristol Rovers don’t mix, I mean what do we actually have? Match day tickets, club shop and hospitality, it’s no wonder we can’t pay players high salary’s or even the minimum wage. We need this type of setup to progress and that why the Mem will never be a viable option. This brings me to the other part of the thread title ‘crossroad’. For me Bristol rovers are at a crossraod, one way will either allow us to progress to a sustainable club, or the other to our eventual extinction. I say this because we are, as much as people hate to admit it massively effected by our friends across the river. I talk in terms of future potential generations of fans. At the moment we are tinpot...yes I said it, but we do offset that by only being one league behind, plus if we had plans to build a new stadium, regardless of our league position we would capture the hearts of Bristol’s youth by having the underdog appeal. If we were in the championship but still at the Mem we would match their level thus also attracting future fans. Even if they got promoted to the prem and we stayed in league 1 but still had the prospect of a new state of the art ground, we would still recruit support. The problem i fear is that they may well get promoted to the prem. This is a problem not because I’m jealous or hate them, it’s because it leaves us in a precarious position where we cannot attract the the fans of the future. Languishing in league one without two pennies to rub together will not appeal to the young, especially when another team In bristol plays agains the likes of Chelsea, Manchester United etc in a big stadium with good facilities. Yes we will always maintain our die hard gas fanbase but this in time will fade as the individuals on the terraces age and pass. Generations truly lost. I genuinely fear for our future. We need investment, new stadium, and most importantly new revenue streams just to even stay in the race let alone win it. I believe we need to start organising peacefull protests, nothing aggressive, hostile, nasty or offensive just a way of showing how we fear that without proper investment by any ownership that the club will die. We need to stress that evolution will be too little too late. I admit I don’t have the answers to our woes or have 100million to put in to the club. Some you will be just as happy to watch us in the conference, I respect your loyalty but I for one will not. Did not mean this to be too negative, just wanted to express the urgency of our situation and see If people had an appetite to mobilise the fan base in a peaceful manner and put pressure on our owners. possibly the best post i have ever seen on here. What will your protest involve, then?
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Marshy
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Post by Marshy on Dec 13, 2017 13:43:22 GMT
possibly the best post i have ever seen on here. What will your protest involve, then? A self imposed ban from gaschat for a month?
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Post by markczgas on Dec 13, 2017 14:42:09 GMT
You can write letters - outlining your concerns and/or requesting when and what is going to happen ?
I guess Wael/Hani would ignore 1 or 2 letters but if 30 or 40 fans wrote to them (ideally more) maybe you might force them to set out clear plans/actions.
But in the end it's about money - can our current owner fund the things we dream about or can they attract investment for it ?
The signs, currently, is that their investment is only going to trickle through - re: stadium and training ground.
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Post by philbemmygas on Dec 13, 2017 15:39:43 GMT
You can write letters - outlining your concerns and/or requesting when and what is going to happen ? I guess Wael/Hani would ignore 1 or 2 letters but if 30 or 40 fans wrote to them (ideally more) maybe you might force them to set out clear plans/actions. But in the end it's about money - can our current owner fund the things we dream about or can they attract investment for it ? The signs, currently, is that their investment is only going to trickle through - re: stadium and training ground. Mark I remember the start of the FFFS and the discussion to join the other party and put pressure on Nick Higgs and his cohorts on previous disappointments; as I said the other day previous campaigns have literally caused the tortoise effect with Board members. I cannot see any pressure campaigns doing anything other than cause further disharmony, just my opinion mate
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Post by knowall on Dec 13, 2017 16:44:15 GMT
It is totally wrong to compare MK Dons with our situation unless you want Rovers to move several hundred miles away from Bristol. The whole project surrounding MK Dons stadium cost a fortune and was put together by a record producer Pete Winkelman in association with Adsa and Ikea. The stadium is fantastic but survives because of the retail aspect - which is exactly where the UWE deal falls short apparently. MK Dons still have yet to fill the capacity but it is ready for Premiership football if they can get a team worthy of the step up. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stadium_mk#Milton_Keynes_Stadium_ConsortiumI disagree. If MK have found a formula then we would be very wise to look at their formula.The point you make about the UWE is accurate I think. Personally I never believed the project as shown displayed any tenable revenue streams of the value needed to make the club viable. For this alone (if true) the reasons to not do it are very real. That doesn't excuse the time taken to realise that and makes Dwayne Sports business planning look a bit silly. But that is exactly the point, the enabling aspects would have made the difference to viability, but UWE says NO, so the project would be unsustainable - whereas MK don't need to make any money from football
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Post by giles on Dec 13, 2017 17:38:53 GMT
I’m currently working in Milton Keynes and staying in the Double Tree hotel, for those who don’t know it, it’s situated within the MK Dons football stadium. Every time I go back to my room after work a feeling of envy comes over me. It really is a fantastic stadium fit for the premiership, but it’s not just the stadium that makes me envious. Although I’m not sure about the business particulars with regards to who owns the ground and who gets the generated revenue, I can’t help but be in awe of the amount of revenue streams their are. I briefly counted at least 8 seperate premises incorporated within the stadium, these included but wasn’t limited to bars, gym, hotel, restaurants and conference spaces, and these were only on one side of the stadium. Just think of all the ground rents being generated as revenue for the club, it truly makes me wonder why MK dons are so sh1t. I’m envious of the car park and surrounding area which is home to a brand new eating and drinking area. The stadium is in my opinion truly brilliant yet modest, I would happily see the gas in this “souless bowl”. The words revenue streams and Bristol Rovers don’t mix, I mean what do we actually have? Match day tickets, club shop and hospitality, it’s no wonder we can’t pay players high salary’s or even the minimum wage. We need this type of setup to progress and that why the Mem will never be a viable option. This brings me to the other part of the thread title ‘crossroad’. For me Bristol rovers are at a crossraod, one way will either allow us to progress to a sustainable club, or the other to our eventual extinction. I say this because we are, as much as people hate to admit it massively effected by our friends across the river. I talk in terms of future potential generations of fans. At the moment we are tinpot...yes I said it, but we do offset that by only being one league behind, plus if we had plans to build a new stadium, regardless of our league position we would capture the hearts of Bristol’s youth by having the underdog appeal. If we were in the championship but still at the Mem we would match their level thus also attracting future fans. Even if they got promoted to the prem and we stayed in league 1 but still had the prospect of a new state of the art ground, we would still recruit support. The problem i fear is that they may well get promoted to the prem. This is a problem not because I’m jealous or hate them, it’s because it leaves us in a precarious position where we cannot attract the the fans of the future. Languishing in league one without two pennies to rub together will not appeal to the young, especially when another team In bristol plays agains the likes of Chelsea, Manchester United etc in a big stadium with good facilities. Yes we will always maintain our die hard gas fanbase but this in time will fade as the individuals on the terraces age and pass. Generations truly lost. I genuinely fear for our future. We need investment, new stadium, and most importantly new revenue streams just to even stay in the race let alone win it. I believe we need to start organising peacefull protests, nothing aggressive, hostile, nasty or offensive just a way of showing how we fear that without proper investment by any ownership that the club will die. We need to stress that evolution will be too little too late. I admit I don’t have the answers to our woes or have 100million to put in to the club. Some you will be just as happy to watch us in the conference, I respect your loyalty but I for one will not. Did not mean this to be too negative, just wanted to express the urgency of our situation and see If people had an appetite to mobilise the fan base in a peaceful manner and put pressure on our owners. The restaurants and cinema etc are owned by a major Pension Fund
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2017 18:13:30 GMT
What the New Mem needs is conference space , a hotel ,Bars , a gym , homes ,a small supermarket and 18500 seater stadia. That is not possible though as the site is too small....eh...hang on...we already had that planned and had permission for on the site !
All that was lacking was the student accommodation providers cash as they pulled out. Being so reliant on one outside cash provider may not be an issue anymore (?)
Therefore its all about revising the old plans in a new style.
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Post by gasant on Dec 13, 2017 18:32:17 GMT
Evolution not revolution. If we are going to be sustainable then we need an initial outlay to do this. To generate a sustainable future then we need to have a good return on our investments. If i was a new owner of a football club i would want to maximise this asap. Which isn't what we are seeing currently IMO. With minimal/no investment into these commercial streams of income then there will be no increase in wages or transfers to support the football team. A new carpet/hand dryers/bogs is not going to sell more beer or generate a higher attendance. I think the owners have massively underestimated the actual investment needed to be self-sufficient to enable the club to keep our best players and progress through the leagues. That may be so, but they don’t need to spend any of the money they currently have if that’s the case, racking up a debt they will be unlikely to get back anytime soon I think some people need to row back a bit. Take the Al-Qadi’s out of the equation for a minute. What are people’s realistic expectations? I was no great fan of Nick Higgs and the previous BoD and the running of the club, but they could only finance the club to a point. The Al-Qadi’s can only to it to a point and Joe Bloggs, or Fred Smith will only be able to. Again unless we can find someone with a large pile of cash willing to loan it to us and then write it off, we have to work in a different plain to the likes of Lansdown . To clarify a little, we dont need to take the Al-Qadi's out of the equation as that isn't what the reality is. I agree with you and look at how long Lansdown was prepared to run city at a loss until he realised that for a proper push forward he needed to invest in the materials rather than just run up the cost on the playing side. If the owners are happy to absorb the more expensive cost of building slowly then that is fine with me as like you say the owners appear to be happy currently to go down this avenue. Although it doesn't feel sensible or give me a huge amount of confidence and from the outside i cant see how it is the best business case for maximising their investment as each year that passes is at least costing them £2m+. For example, we have a higher core support than MK Dons in OPs post and that would allow us to progress faster and more sustainably than other clubs with better facilities and lower captive market than what we can currently provide. If a new club shop costs 200k and we can recoup that cost through additional sales in 3 years then all is ok but if we are looking to rebuild the mem in 2 years then it isn't cost effective and they'd be better waiting and incorporating a shop into a new stand. It's why i can see us losing Bodin and DC. The board are not pushing for promotion as its not sustainable and both want to progress faster than the board do.
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Post by Antonio Fargas on Dec 13, 2017 18:33:11 GMT
What the New Mem needs is conference space , a hotel ,Bars , a gym , homes ,a small supermarket and 18500 seater stadia. That is not possible though as the site is too small....eh...hang on...we already had that planned and had permission for on the site ! All that was lacking was the student accommodation providers cash as they pulled out. Being so reliant on one outside cash provider may not be an issue anymore (?) Therefore its all about revising the old plans in a new style. Yeah, and property prices have now far surpassed what they were before the crash that scuppered the deal.
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