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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2017 19:36:19 GMT
I disagree. If MK have found a formula then we would be very wise to look at their formula.The point you make about the UWE is accurate I think. Personally I never believed the project as shown displayed any tenable revenue streams of the value needed to make the club viable. For this alone (if true) the reasons to not do it are very real. That doesn't excuse the time taken to realise that and makes Dwayne Sports business planning look a bit silly. But that is exactly the point, the enabling aspects would have made the difference to viability, but UWE says NO, so the project would be unsustainable - whereas MK don't need to make any money from football I think we are in broad agreement on this point
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Post by pilninggas on Dec 13, 2017 20:20:03 GMT
What the New Mem needs is conference space , a hotel ,Bars , a gym , homes ,a small supermarket and 18500 seater stadia. That is not possible though as the site is too small....eh...hang on...we already had that planned and had permission for on the site ! All that was lacking was the student accommodation providers cash as they pulled out. Being so reliant on one outside cash provider may not be an issue anymore (?) Therefore its all about revising the old plans in a new style. This, ^^^ this all the way. The site is more than up to the job. What's more it's not near any other out-of-town stuff. The original Mem upgrade plan had stands with spaces underneath for accoms, a gym and a shop. This could easily happen. One stand could be the Al Qadi's hotel. Even 'one stand at a time', as Hamer said, could be configured for facilities needed to raise additional revenues. Although I do still wonder if the Al Qadis are exploring other sites as well; with the Mem sold for housing. It's worth £20m+ for housing. The money ported to a cheaper less fashionable site with fewer planning implications [i.e. brownfield]
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Post by aghast on Dec 13, 2017 21:04:21 GMT
Interesting (to me) to look back a while. A blog from April 2008 v Brighton. thegroundhog.wordpress.com/2008/05/02/bristol-rovers/"Brighton’s slim hopes of making the play-offs had gone. Due to the expected high volume of away fans, I had already got my ticket. Had I not, I may have been in two minds about going. However, it was the last ever game at the Memorial Stadium, before its complete redevelopment. It is such a shame, in a way, that it is soon to be demolished and rebuilt from scratch with the pitch changing aspect by 90 degrees. It will be just another new stadium then; modern, smart, comfortable, great views but without character. At least it will still be nestled among terraced streets and not out of town." --------------------------------- He needn't have worried. It's all still here! So much time and money lost though in those 9 years. Six months after he wrote this, construction began on the Amex. I don't suppose many Brighton fans today would be as positive about the Mem as he was back then, but they were playing at the Withdean then.
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Post by cabazeldegas on Dec 13, 2017 22:14:07 GMT
If you're going to be a gashead you're going to be a gashead. It will be driven by family and/or the first game you're take to and then the bug bites. There are far more many man utd fans in Bristol than there are gasheads. We've always been in the shadow of the Dark Side of BS3, but the % of support remains the same. The ones who go to Trashton when they are doing well just because they are doing well stops as soon as they're not doing well. The majority of our support go to our games come what may, home and away, rain or shine. IF we ever became a 'bigger' club then those 'plastics' down at Trashton would come and see us. More income and great stuff. We could become a top team. Anyone see the Liverpool fans (best fans in the world because they are so loyal and knowledgeable apparently, singing their anthem with such passion at the start of every game) leaving with 5 minutes to go during their big Scouse derby against Everton? It was 1-1 FFS! Not a dig against Liverpool, same thing happens with them all. How many of us would leave a Bristol derby at 1-1 with 5 minutes to go? They're not fans, they just want to say they've been there. Would you wear a scarf with "Bristol Rovers v Bristol City" on it? I understand the need for income. I do not understand the need for a 22000 (or whatever) all seater stadium that at best would be half full with true blues, or if we got Man utd in the cup would be full of plastics (and how often does that happen with our cup form?). Some of you on here are very good with stats… Does having a big game against a big team ever have a lasting effect on increased attendances? The other argument about facilities is bollocks as well (as I've said before). If you pay a player at this level (who are nearly all mercenaries, and I don't blame them for that) an extra few of hundred quid a week, they will come even if they have to change on the side of the pitch with someone holding a towel in front of them to protect their modesty.
Let's get real… We are Bristol Rovers. That's it. I love us for that. We need to look to the future, but we need to be realistic.
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Post by curlywurly on Dec 13, 2017 23:03:26 GMT
Inspired by the thought of using the MK Dons franchise as the model for our future success, here's a few ideas for redevelopment and improvement that we could borrow from the "Dons"
We need to maximise revenue from the redevelopment of the Mem., but needn't worry about offending anyone, least of all the supporters of the parent club. Hence the following should all be included: 1. Pawn shop / loan shark's office. 2. Casino, with topless bar. 3. No club shop, but a Sports Direct selling merchandise of your 'favourite' Premier league clubs, but no Rovers stuff.
Of course, on field success is as important as development off it. So taking the leaf out of MK's book, we could always buy out a team in a higher position - saves all of that struggle of winning football matches and promotion. Bournemouth or Watford look promising targets, but Burnley are my personal favourite for a predatory franchise take over - after all the football authorities are happy to turn a blind eye to the niceties of history and we needn't move from Bristol to become a Premier League team.
Of course, this works both ways. If times are really hard, there is a danger that we get taken over by some new town like South Woodham Ferrers. Go SWF Pirates!
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Post by nickchippenhamgas on Dec 13, 2017 23:33:51 GMT
I’m currently working in Milton Keynes and staying in the Double Tree hotel, for those who don’t know it, it’s situated within the MK Dons football stadium. Every time I go back to my room after work a feeling of envy comes over me. It really is a fantastic stadium fit for the premiership, but it’s not just the stadium that makes me envious. Although I’m not sure about the business particulars with regards to who owns the ground and who gets the generated revenue, I can’t help but be in awe of the amount of revenue streams their are. I briefly counted at least 8 seperate premises incorporated within the stadium, these included but wasn’t limited to bars, gym, hotel, restaurants and conference spaces, and these were only on one side of the stadium. Just think of all the ground rents being generated as revenue for the club, it truly makes me wonder why MK dons are so sh1t. I’m envious of the car park and surrounding area which is home to a brand new eating and drinking area. The stadium is in my opinion truly brilliant yet modest, I would happily see the gas in this “souless bowl”. The words revenue streams and Bristol Rovers don’t mix, I mean what do we actually have? Match day tickets, club shop and hospitality, it’s no wonder we can’t pay players high salary’s or even the minimum wage. We need this type of setup to progress and that why the Mem will never be a viable option. This brings me to the other part of the thread title ‘crossroad’. For me Bristol rovers are at a crossraod, one way will either allow us to progress to a sustainable club, or the other to our eventual extinction. I say this because we are, as much as people hate to admit it massively effected by our friends across the river. I talk in terms of future potential generations of fans. At the moment we are tinpot...yes I said it, but we do offset that by only being one league behind, plus if we had plans to build a new stadium, regardless of our league position we would capture the hearts of Bristol’s youth by having the underdog appeal. If we were in the championship but still at the Mem we would match their level thus also attracting future fans. Even if they got promoted to the prem and we stayed in league 1 but still had the prospect of a new state of the art ground, we would still recruit support. The problem i fear is that they may well get promoted to the prem. This is a problem not because I’m jealous or hate them, it’s because it leaves us in a precarious position where we cannot attract the the fans of the future. Languishing in league one without two pennies to rub together will not appeal to the young, especially when another team In bristol plays agains the likes of Chelsea, Manchester United etc in a big stadium with good facilities. Yes we will always maintain our die hard gas fanbase but this in time will fade as the individuals on the terraces age and pass. Generations truly lost. I genuinely fear for our future. We need investment, new stadium, and most importantly new revenue streams just to even stay in the race let alone win it. I believe we need to start organising peacefull protests, nothing aggressive, hostile, nasty or offensive just a way of showing how we fear that without proper investment by any ownership that the club will die. We need to stress that evolution will be too little too late. I admit I don’t have the answers to our woes or have 100million to put in to the club. Some you will be just as happy to watch us in the conference, I respect your loyalty but I for one will not. Did not mean this to be too negative, just wanted to express the urgency of our situation and see If people had an appetite to mobilise the fan base in a peaceful manner and put pressure on our owners. possibly the best post i have ever seen on here. I agree 100% about this post and feel the forum needs to send this to the family without delay' I've always said, without a stadium worthy of the name we will wither on the vine, the Mem is not the answer, and imo the family has no intention whatsoever in redeveloping it anyway!!
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Post by c4h10 on Dec 13, 2017 23:45:21 GMT
Spot-on, curlywurly. It's no use belly-aching, Gastroenteritis (see what I did there?), about other clubs' stadia whilst using MK Dons as an example. The Milton Keynes stadium is terrific, but MK Dons aren't real. They exist to fill (Ha!) the stadium - the stadium does not exist because of them.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2017 0:13:04 GMT
possibly the best post i have ever seen on here. I agree 100% about this post and feel the forum needs to send this to the family without delay' I've always said, without a stadium worthy of the name we will wither on the vine, the Mem is not the answer, and imo the family has no intention whatsoever in redeveloping it anyway!! Trouble is the "no intention whatsoever" bit is just what you said it was.an opinion,its not a fact. Our protest would be like "we think you might not be good guys though were not certain" What a crap protest that would be!
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Post by philbemmygas on Dec 14, 2017 7:58:57 GMT
I agree 100% about this post and feel the forum needs to send this to the family without delay' I've always said, without a stadium worthy of the name we will wither on the vine, the Mem is not the answer, and imo the family has no intention whatsoever in redeveloping it anyway!! Trouble is the "no intention whatsoever" bit is just what you said it was.an opinion,its not a fact. Our protest would be like "we think you might not be good guys though were not certain" What a crap protest that would be! Martin As you know we have been down this "protest" route before, in the main lots of well intentioned (and some not so) jargon is spouted on various forums/social media and in reality not a lot happens. Keep your powder dry and support the on pitch activity is my mantra; nothing more; nothing less
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Post by markczgas on Dec 14, 2017 10:38:42 GMT
You can write letters - outlining your concerns and/or requesting when and what is going to happen ? I guess Wael/Hani would ignore 1 or 2 letters but if 30 or 40 fans wrote to them (ideally more) maybe you might force them to set out clear plans/actions. But in the end it's about money - can our current owner fund the things we dream about or can they attract investment for it ? The signs, currently, is that their investment is only going to trickle through - re: stadium and training ground. Mark I remember the start of the FFFS and the discussion to join the other party and put pressure on Nick Higgs and his cohorts on previous disappointments; as I said the other day previous campaigns have literally caused the tortoise effect with Board members. I cannot see any pressure campaigns doing anything other than cause further disharmony, just my opinion mate Phil, I'm not doing this myself. I was just offering a suggestion to any supporters who would like to put pressure on the current owners. As I wrote somewhere else. I'm happy we changed owners, happy that we have been paying money for players and building up the squad, happy that we have a development squad - that's progressing nicely. However, the UWE news was a blow although not a surprise after things just dragged on and on for what seemed forever. I still feel, strongly, we need a new stadium and the news about re-devloping The Mem really doesn't excite me. I also am sceptical that much will happen with it in the next few years. On top of that the pussy-footing with the training ground just gives an overall feel of either stagnation or minimal progression. So not much Christmas cheer from me ........yet !!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2017 11:06:56 GMT
Trouble is the "no intention whatsoever" bit is just what you said it was.an opinion,its not a fact. Our protest would be like "we think you might not be good guys though were not certain" What a crap protest that would be! Martin As you know we have been down this "protest" route before, in the main lots of well intentioned (and some not so) jargon is spouted on various forums/social media and in reality not a lot happens. Keep your powder dry and support the on pitch activity is my mantra; nothing more; nothing less Whose martin?
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Post by chippenhamgas on Dec 14, 2017 11:26:22 GMT
What the New Mem needs is conference space , a hotel ,Bars , a gym , homes ,a small supermarket and 18500 seater stadia. That is not possible though as the site is too small....eh...hang on...we already had that planned and had permission for on the site ! All that was lacking was the student accommodation providers cash as they pulled out. Being so reliant on one outside cash provider may not be an issue anymore (?) Therefore its all about revising the old plans in a new style. This, ^^^ this all the way. The site is more than up to the job. What's more it's not near any other out-of-town stuff. The original Mem upgrade plan had stands with spaces underneath for accoms, a gym and a shop. This could easily happen. One stand could be the Al Qadi's hotel. Even 'one stand at a time', as Hamer said, could be configured for facilities needed to raise additional revenues. Although I do still wonder if the Al Qadis are exploring other sites as well; with the Mem sold for housing. It's worth £20m+ for housing. The money ported to a cheaper less fashionable site with fewer planning implications [i.e. brownfield] Trouble which ever site we build a stadium on it will cost in the region of 40m. Surely there are none of us left who think the family still intend investing that sort of cash!
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Post by Henbury Gas on Dec 14, 2017 11:36:31 GMT
This, ^^^ this all the way. The site is more than up to the job. What's more it's not near any other out-of-town stuff. The original Mem upgrade plan had stands with spaces underneath for accoms, a gym and a shop. This could easily happen. One stand could be the Al Qadi's hotel. Even 'one stand at a time', as Hamer said, could be configured for facilities needed to raise additional revenues. Although I do still wonder if the Al Qadis are exploring other sites as well; with the Mem sold for housing. It's worth £20m+ for housing. The money ported to a cheaper less fashionable site with fewer planning implications [i.e. brownfield] Trouble which ever site we build a stadium on it will cost in the region of 40m. Surely there are none of us left who think the family still intend investing that sort of cash! Yes and a lot more...
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Post by blueridge on Dec 14, 2017 11:48:13 GMT
Mark I remember the start of the FFFS and the discussion to join the other party and put pressure on Nick Higgs and his cohorts on previous disappointments; as I said the other day previous campaigns have literally caused the tortoise effect with Board members. I cannot see any pressure campaigns doing anything other than cause further disharmony, just my opinion mate Phil, I'm not doing this myself. I was just offering a suggestion to any supporters who would like to put pressure on the current owners. As I wrote somewhere else. I'm happy we changed owners, happy that we have been paying money for players and building up the squad, happy that we have a development squad - that's progressing nicely. However, the UWE news was a blow although not a surprise after things just dragged on and on for what seemed forever. I still feel, strongly, we need a new stadium and the news about re-devloping The Mem really doesn't excite me. I also am sceptical that much will happen with it in the next few years. On top of that the pussy-footing with the training ground just gives an overall feel of either stagnation or minimal progression. So not much Christmas cheer from me ........yet !! Personally I would put the training ground at the back of your mind and not even think about it. The initial vision that most of us had as it being 'an all singing, all dancing' facility to house the whole of the club's playing staff including the Development Squad and Academy has been somewhat diluted. It can now only be effectively described as a clubhouse, one main pitch and a couple of training pitches that we don't own and will have to pay for the use of. The excitement I originally had for this facility has now gone. I believed at the time that this was a massive statement by the club for taking the club forward to develop our own young players and ultimately, IMO it would have been self financing. What attraction will there be for promising young players now to join the club? Again IMO at a relatively low initial outlay (maybe £7/£8m) and if now measured against the costs we are forking out on disparate training facilities it will add another argument to the stagnation comments that are being banded around. DS had a real opportunity to make a interim statement of intent whist the longer ongoing issues surrounding the stadium are resolved.
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Post by Henbury Gas on Dec 14, 2017 11:50:32 GMT
Phil, I'm not doing this myself. I was just offering a suggestion to any supporters who would like to put pressure on the current owners. As I wrote somewhere else. I'm happy we changed owners, happy that we have been paying money for players and building up the squad, happy that we have a development squad - that's progressing nicely. However, the UWE news was a blow although not a surprise after things just dragged on and on for what seemed forever. I still feel, strongly, we need a new stadium and the news about re-devloping The Mem really doesn't excite me. I also am sceptical that much will happen with it in the next few years. On top of that the pussy-footing with the training ground just gives an overall feel of either stagnation or minimal progression. So not much Christmas cheer from me ........yet !! Personally I would put the training ground at the back of your mind and not even think about it. The initial vision that most of us had as it being 'an all singing, all dancing' facility to house the whole of the club's playing staff including the Development Squad and Academy has been somewhat diluted. It can now only be effectively described as a clubhouse, one main pitch and a couple of training pitches that we don't own and will have to pay for the use of. The excitement I originally had for this facility has now gone. I believed at the time that this was a massive statement by the club for taking the club forward to develop our own young players and ultimately, IMO it would have been self financing. What attraction will there be for promising young players now to join the club? Again IMO at a relatively low initial outlay (maybe £7/£8m) and if now measured against the costs we are forking out on disparate training facilities it will add another argument to the stagnation comments that are being banded around. DS had a real opportunity to make a interim statement of intent whist the longer ongoing issues surrounding the stadium are resolved. Funniest post today well done
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Post by blueridge on Dec 14, 2017 11:58:16 GMT
Personally I would put the training ground at the back of your mind and not even think about it. The initial vision that most of us had as it being 'an all singing, all dancing' facility to house the whole of the club's playing staff including the Development Squad and Academy has been somewhat diluted. It can now only be effectively described as a clubhouse, one main pitch and a couple of training pitches that we don't own and will have to pay for the use of. The excitement I originally had for this facility has now gone. I believed at the time that this was a massive statement by the club for taking the club forward to develop our own young players and ultimately, IMO it would have been self financing. What attraction will there be for promising young players now to join the club? Again IMO at a relatively low initial outlay (maybe £7/£8m) and if now measured against the costs we are forking out on disparate training facilities it will add another argument to the stagnation comments that are being banded around. DS had a real opportunity to make a interim statement of intent whist the longer ongoing issues surrounding the stadium are resolved. Funniest post today well done You might think it's funny - it's owned by Dwane Sports Colony.
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Post by Henbury Gas on Dec 14, 2017 12:00:57 GMT
Funniest post today well done You might think it's funny - it's owned by Dwane Sports Colony. I Know but you forgot about the Mem we rent as well........
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Post by blueridge on Dec 14, 2017 12:09:45 GMT
You might think it's funny - it's owned by Dwane Sports Colony. I Know but you forgot about the Mem we rent as well........ Why would I forget the Mem. Why would we pay rent for using our own training pitches? So everything else in the post was funny as well was it? - what a weird sense of humour.
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Post by Henbury Gas on Dec 14, 2017 12:20:25 GMT
I Know but you forgot about the Mem we rent as well........ Why would I forget the Mem. Why would we pay rent for using our own training pitches? So everything else in the past was funny as well was it - what a weird sense of humour. I think its funny because you are the only one who did know this........
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Post by peterparker on Dec 14, 2017 12:23:39 GMT
This, ^^^ this all the way. The site is more than up to the job. What's more it's not near any other out-of-town stuff. The original Mem upgrade plan had stands with spaces underneath for accoms, a gym and a shop. This could easily happen. One stand could be the Al Qadi's hotel. Even 'one stand at a time', as Hamer said, could be configured for facilities needed to raise additional revenues. Although I do still wonder if the Al Qadis are exploring other sites as well; with the Mem sold for housing. It's worth £20m+ for housing. The money ported to a cheaper less fashionable site with fewer planning implications [i.e. brownfield] Trouble which ever site we build a stadium on it will cost in the region of 40m. Surely there are none of us left who think the family still intend investing that sort of cash! perhaps you should advertise us in Billionaire monthly and sell the 'opportunity' of blowing millions of your own money into a football club
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