|
Post by LJG on May 4, 2018 18:14:13 GMT
Presume what you want. Why can't you just say how you would run the football club differently instead of always making jibes? Most people on here presume what they want. I'll repeat again that I've not done any due diligence so like you neither know the cost of the unnecessary London office or what ollie clatke earns, I was just quoting figures bandied around on this forum. Again without due diligence how can I propose how to run the club? However a sound business starting point is to control costs and maximise revenues, I see a lot of costs coming into the club and just hope there is as much focus on revenue generation. If due diligence is so important a foundation for your opinions you can't possibly make the claim that any of these costs are unnecessary since, like you say, you have no way to know without having done the due diligence.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 4, 2018 18:14:29 GMT
That's £21K per month. Even by London standards I think it's a bit much. Yeah my firm has an office in the city - 44 desks over 5000 square feet. It's just under £380,000 per year. There's absolutely no way 2 desks is costing 250 thousand. But I think the figure given out by the club at the AGM was 220k a year (?). That covers the cost of the office, plus the salaries of the two people based there.
|
|
|
Post by Topper Gas on May 4, 2018 18:14:35 GMT
Presume what you want. Why can't you just say how you would run the football club differently instead of always making jibes? Most people on here presume what they want. I'll repeat again that I've not done any due diligence so like you neither know the cost of the unnecessary London office or what ollie clatke earns, I was just quoting figures bandied around on this forum. Again without due diligence how can I propose how to run the club? However a sound business starting point is to control costs and maximise revenues, I see a lot of costs coming into the club and just hope there is as much focus on revenue generation. The club has employed an experienced Marketing Manager who seems to have found us shirt sponsors whilst keeping the 1883 club draw going, plus tried to improve the food sold at the ground and introduced contactless m/c's. S/t prices have gone up, for OAP's significantly so that's another area of revenue being increased, there's strong rumours a new stand is being built to house families so that's another, the club shop entrance is apparently being moved to allow full access on match days, electronic turnstiles are being introduced to stop free riders, it's all little improvements but a damn sight more than the previous owners have done since we've been at the Mem. Club turnover last year was £6m(?) which is a massive increase on previous seasons. The money spent on the London office seems a waste but if they are willing to incur £3m losses p.a. I guess they can spend less than 10% of that figure where they want to. Not really sure they can do a lot more at the Mem w/o building permanent new stands? Training ground wise we're hitting crunch time soon but to be fair to the ALQ's apart from the UWE they've always delivered on what they've promised.
|
|
|
Post by Topper Gas on May 4, 2018 18:18:51 GMT
That's £21K per month. Even by London standards I think it's a bit much. Yeah my firm has an office in the city - 44 desks over 5000 square feet. It's just under £380,000 per year. There's absolutely no way 2 desks is costing 250 thousand. Rumours were there's two permanent staff, Will Dubey and the guy mentioned on here earlier this week, but also desks for SH & the ALQ's plus I assume a meeting/Boardroom room.
|
|
|
Post by Severncider on May 4, 2018 18:20:01 GMT
That's £21K per month. Even by London standards I think it's a bit much. Yeah my firm has an office in the city - 44 desks over 5000 square feet. It's just under £380,000 per year. There's absolutely no way 2 desks is costing 250 thousand. Have a word with Steve Hamer/Steve Brookfield as THEY were the one's who quoted that figure at a AGM. Then again, I am accused of being negative regarding anything to do with the clubs finances. Perhaps a few Bolton/Sunderland supporters should have got more interested.
|
|
|
Post by Topper Gas on May 4, 2018 18:32:33 GMT
But wouldn't outside investors have still hit the brick wall which seems to be the UWE when it comes to agreeing a reasonable deal, as the ALQ have found in the last couple of years? The time frame is fairly irrelevant as apart from Sainsbury's walking it still comes down to being unable to agree a reasonable deal with the UWE. As far as DS nobody really knows what financial backing they have or don't have, most of the negative posters would have suggested they'd be walking this summer not employing a CEO & HoR, which won't be cheap, and potentially submitting plans for the training ground. With all the information I managed to gather about the UWE Stadium project I came to the conclusion that it was a fantastic opportunity for Rovers so long as there was sufficient cash available to finance the build, the business infrastructure to go with it and the working capital to run the football club. If there wasn't sufficient cash available for all that it wouldn't work and IMO this is why neither Nick nor Wael could proceed with it. UWE is a serious organization run by serious people and they definitely wanted the stadium project to succeed so I could never fathom the talk about them wanting to screw Rovers and, for example, have men with clipboards counting how many pasties we sold so they got their share. For me that argument never stacked up and was just an excuse which appeared plausible to many fans and was a diversion from the real reason for the failure which was lack of cash. Dwane Sports is a £2 brass plate offshore company beneficially owned by the Al-Qadi family and this company has found £15 million to provide a credit facility to Rovers. There is nothing wrong with that and we don't need to know where the cash comes from so long as there is sufficient of it to make Rovers successful as a football club and as a business. Again, from the information I managed to gather, I have come to the conclusion that the Al-Qadi family themselves don't have sufficient cash resources available to finance what is needed at Rovers and will therefore need outside investment to do the job properly. What you can't escape is the UWE presented NH with a plan when they knew he'd got £30m+ heading his way from Sainsbury's, NH could have well been happy to sign away most of the matchday income as the ground was virtually a freeby for the club. So everybody was happy NH got a 22K seat stadium and his investment paid back, the UWE get a stadium on their land (I'm still not sure what benefit that actually brings to them?) and £££'s every other week from matchday income. However, the ALQ's moved the goalposts as they needed to try and make it feasible by taking more of the matchday income, hence an agreement was never reached. As far as the ALQ's not being able to finance what his needed it seems impossible to ascertain their worth, the Bristol Post suggested the family could have assets worth up to £1B so if they wanted to spend £50m at Rovers it seems possible, but surely being investment bankers by trade they'd look to get other investors on board if they can come up with a feasible plan for a stadium. It could all be smoke and mirrors and they have no intention of building a stadium but they don't seem to be reign in the spending at present if they aren't.
|
|
|
Post by gregsy on May 4, 2018 19:37:05 GMT
I do love a bit of number crunching of unknown numbers....
|
|
|
Post by Hugo the Elder on May 4, 2018 19:44:00 GMT
are we living within our means? No, but what is your solution?
The club requires investment to make it profitable doesn't it?
As I've said previously I hope the owners are looking as closely at improving revenues as they are on increasing costs. Investment is needed in the bricks and mortar infrastructure of the club as without that and a plan employing a head of recruitment is superfluous to our needs (probably like the office in London). Hopefully I'll be cheering the owners following the announcement of a concrete stadium proposal but I won't be holding my breath based on the progress seen to date on the training ground, the big problem with UWE was not owning the freehold but Dwane Sports own the freehold on the proposed training ground and still nothing us happening there (unless I've missed a development). Think along with Swiss I'm one of few that cares about the finances of the club. To LJG for a start I wouldn't be wasting money on that office in London I'm getting bored of you saying that you are the only one that cares about the club finances. It's perfectly possible for people to hold a contrary position to you but to care just as much as you. You don't have to be a miserable sod and slate the owners at every turn to care.
|
|
|
Post by LJG on May 4, 2018 19:44:16 GMT
Yeah my firm has an office in the city - 44 desks over 5000 square feet. It's just under £380,000 per year. There's absolutely no way 2 desks is costing 250 thousand. But I think the figure given out by the club at the AGM was 220k a year (?). That covers the cost of the office, plus the salaries of the two people based there. Well that's as maybe. But salaries are not premises costs. If those salaries are going to two guys who work full time towards securing investment for a stadium project then there might be value in having them. Which sort of goes to the heart of my point that it's all well and good for CGH to say "I'd get rid of that expense" without knowing the value of that cost.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 4, 2018 20:26:01 GMT
Don’t waste your breath lincsblue. Midland may as well be a shithead ‘not so secret’ agent. DC is up there with the best managers that we’ve ever had. If he was perfect and didn’t make mistakes though he wouldn’t be our manager for long would he? It really beggars belief that we have morons pretending to be gasheads criticising and wanting him out,. It's a weird one with DC, I believe in the guy so much that even if we got relegated I'd stick by him. When he talks about the club everything he says resonates with me. With what he has at his disposal and the state of our clubs 'infrastructure' I truly believe he is working wonders. With the current state of play we really can't ask for anything more than a top half L1 finish/play off push. We are moving forward as a club with him and Wael (even if it isn't as fast as some would like). As Darrell has said before we need to get rid of the 'rag ass rovers' approach if we ever want to progress any higher in the pyramid. Sadly some posters love the old times, probably reminisce about the tote and don't want to see us dragged into the twenty-first century. Same goes for those who are being culled from the club and board and are dissenting. This is why IMO we see so much rubbish written about the board and DC on here. It's no coincidence that the same posters who bash the board and DC are exactly those who complain about the money in football nowadays, complain about all seater stadiums, say that they don't want us to get into the Championship, complain about the introduction of e-turnstiles, openly mock LGBT and BAME initiatives, I could go on. It's because they don't like change. Whether it be social change or change to their beloved Rovers. They want the old times. They want rag-ass-rovers. Maybe it's because I'm at the younger end of the age spectrum but I want progression. No more santa's grotto incidents. With DC I see progression, even if it's just establishing ourselves with a few mediocre seasons in L1 to bring the overall standard of the squad up (I don't want us to tread water but I'd much rather steady eddy League 1 football than fighting relegation or watching League 2 kick and rush). Off the pitch we are progressing too with Wael, albeit slowly. The staff appointments suggest to me the budget is there, or at least the intent to progress and come into the twenty-first century in terms of scouting network, fitness & conditioning staff etc. We'd all like more announcements on the training ground and stadium, but under the old regime we could've very easily gone into administration with the whole UWE debacle. If in the meantime we have to get a few more tent pegs out and make do with an extension of the south stand then so be it. We are watching L1 football at a good standard, with a manager who is passionate about playing football in the right way. We are growing the backroom team, expanding our scouting network and have a great U23 setup with Chris Hargreaves. We're moving forward as a club and I'm all for it. A contender for post of the year. This, exactly this. UTG
|
|
stuart1974
Proper Gas
Posts: 11,641
Member is Online
|
Post by stuart1974 on May 4, 2018 20:45:27 GMT
Did anyone pick up on DC's comment, with emphasis, about how hard people are working behind the scenes or just 'that pause'? Yes. We’ve got to hope that he knows more than he’s allowed to say at this point. It’s the hope that kills you ! Not sure I think this is the case but what if he does know and the pause was him collecting his thoughts before answering in case he let slip.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 4, 2018 20:48:54 GMT
Yes. We’ve got to hope that he knows more than he’s allowed to say at this point. It’s the hope that kills you ! Not sure I think this is the case but what if he does know and the pause was him collecting his thoughts before answering in case he let slip. I think the pause was just a case of DC having a think before answering a question about his employers. That is a sticky wicket for anyone.
|
|
stuart1974
Proper Gas
Posts: 11,641
Member is Online
|
Post by stuart1974 on May 4, 2018 20:54:30 GMT
are we living within our means? No, but what is your solution?
The club requires investment to make it profitable doesn't it?
Peter, remember the debates about outside investment in 2011/12 ? We were in a perfect position to attract it then with planning agreed for the UWE Stadium, hardly any debt and a huge amount of equity in the Memorial Stadium even without Sainsburys. All it needed was for Nick Higgs to have had the vision to realise that outside investment was essential to drive through the project and transform the club. It was a chance to finally get away from the small town mentality and an obsession with keeping hands on control which blights so many small businesses that could otherwise grow and prosper. We tried to persuade him but didn't succeed. Now we are in a far worse position with no equity in the Mem and nothing much to offer other than our place in League 1 and that elusive quality called potential. The solution is to bring in fresh risk capital to finance the new infrastructure required and the only way I can see that happening is for Dwane Sports to turn their loan into equity and be prepared to give up their majority shareholding. Interesting thoughts there, Swiss, were you privy to the agenda for change team? I missed a lot of that period for family reasons and never properly understood the politics behind it. As for the outside investment, were there really people or institutions who would accept the risk of taking shares in return for the investment? At least on that scale to find the stadium. Taking a share would mean their investment returns would depend on our performances and increasing our value, wouldn't it? By investing with loans in property they would be more likely to invest in the first place but would require a rate of return.
|
|
stuart1974
Proper Gas
Posts: 11,641
Member is Online
|
Post by stuart1974 on May 4, 2018 21:01:43 GMT
With all the information I managed to gather about the UWE Stadium project I came to the conclusion that it was a fantastic opportunity for Rovers so long as there was sufficient cash available to finance the build, the business infrastructure to go with it and the working capital to run the football club. If there wasn't sufficient cash available for all that it wouldn't work and IMO this is why neither Nick nor Wael could proceed with it. UWE is a serious organization run by serious people and they definitely wanted the stadium project to succeed so I could never fathom the talk about them wanting to screw Rovers and, for example, have men with clipboards counting how many pasties we sold so they got their share. For me that argument never stacked up and was just an excuse which appeared plausible to many fans and was a diversion from the real reason for the failure which was lack of cash. Dwane Sports is a £2 brass plate offshore company beneficially owned by the Al-Qadi family and this company has found £15 million to provide a credit facility to Rovers. There is nothing wrong with that and we don't need to know where the cash comes from so long as there is sufficient of it to make Rovers successful as a football club and as a business. Again, from the information I managed to gather, I have come to the conclusion that the Al-Qadi family themselves don't have sufficient cash resources available to finance what is needed at Rovers and will therefore need outside investment to do the job properly. presumably when exploring the UWE project, Dwane sports had outside investment lined up for the project. That is my reading of it. Dwane Sports is a conduit between the investments and the football club. I agree the any funds used to build a stadium (and maybe other funding too) would be third party money.
|
|
stuart1974
Proper Gas
Posts: 11,641
Member is Online
|
Post by stuart1974 on May 4, 2018 21:13:10 GMT
I do love a bit of number crunching of unknown numbers.... That is the problem. Those of us who are posting figures (including me) are basing them on too many assumptions. We are all seeing a picture that we think we see, be it through leaks, rumour, conjecture, our own experiences and training and even bias both deliberate and subconscious. Take the accounts, they are already 8 months out of date and have been superseded by events. We also have no idea of the business plan or any internal politics being played. I've likened it before to an episode of Catch Phrase where one or two squares have been revealed and we are trying to guess the whole picture. Mostly to no avail and it is winding up others who see a different answer and can't believe anyone else cannot see it too. And yes, that last point is an invitation for someone to post a picture of 'that' Mr Chips pose 😊
|
|
stuart1974
Proper Gas
Posts: 11,641
Member is Online
|
Post by stuart1974 on May 4, 2018 21:16:07 GMT
Not sure I think this is the case but what if he does know and the pause was him collecting his thoughts before answering in case he let slip. I think the pause was just a case of DC having a think before answering a question about his employers. That is a sticky wicket for anyone. Very probably. I know if I said anything about my bosses Scooby may grass me up 🙄
|
|
|
Post by Henbury Gas on May 5, 2018 2:32:27 GMT
As I've said previously I hope the owners are looking as closely at improving revenues as they are on increasing costs. Investment is needed in the bricks and mortar infrastructure of the club as without that and a plan employing a head of recruitment is superfluous to our needs (probably like the office in London). Hopefully I'll be cheering the owners following the announcement of a concrete stadium proposal but I won't be holding my breath based on the progress seen to date on the training ground, the big problem with UWE was not owning the freehold but Dwane Sports own the freehold on the proposed training ground and still nothing us happening there (unless I've missed a development). Think along with Swiss I'm one of few that cares about the finances of the club. To LJG for a start I wouldn't be wasting money on that office in London I'm getting bored of you saying that you are the only one that cares about the club finances. It's perfectly possible for people to hold a contrary position to you but to care just as much as you. You don't have to be a miserable sod and slate the owners at every turn to care.But that is normal for a red loving spy
|
|
|
Post by bluestone on May 5, 2018 7:41:34 GMT
Listened to the interview last night. My take aways are that:
DC is clearly still very highly motivated and is hungry for more success with BRFC.
He continues to be supported by the owners in his quest to make us a professional outfit and push to the next level. As evidenced by the recent recruitment appointment.
He treats any funds that is made available for the team as if it was his own and accepts that he is not going to be thrown a boat load of cash to spend, therefore he has to try and add value to the squad by developing the players himself. I actually think he quite enjoys the challenge!
I got the impression he would probably like 'evolution not revolution'to go faster than it is but can see that a lot of effort is being made by the owners and the chairman to make progress with improving the infrastructure of the club.
He expects us to have the training ground up and running within a year and the stadium redeveloped with 5 years.
In short I am a very happy gas head after listening to that. I think DC is here for the next few years and may stay longer if things progress well on the infrastructure front. However if things stagnate over the next year then I could see him losing his patience and getting itchy feet. So fingers crossed we take some big steps forward soon, at least on the training ground front to keep him happy.
UTG!
|
|
|
Post by lincsblue on May 5, 2018 9:55:46 GMT
<iframe width="20.440000000000055" height="4.840000000000003" style="position: absolute; width: 20.440000000000055px; height: 4.840000000000003px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none;left: 15px; top: -5px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_25471008" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="20.440000000000055" height="4.840000000000003" style="position: absolute; width: 20.44px; height: 4.84px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 965px; top: -5px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_79956983" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="20.440000000000055" height="4.840000000000003" style="position: absolute; width: 20.44px; height: 4.84px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 15px; top: 181px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_16653831" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="20.440000000000055" height="4.840000000000003" style="position: absolute; width: 20.44px; height: 4.84px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 965px; top: 181px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_76060964" scrolling="no"></iframe> I don't understand the reason behind your comment. Would you like to elaborate?? As you do seem to be in a minority - and a very small one at that Beaches my dear chap we are going backwards just look at this season compared with last we have won fewer games we have lost more games we have not scored as many goals unless we get 8 tomorrow ok we have not conceded so many goals unless we let 4 in tomorrow we have a worse goal difference again unless we get at least 4 tomorrow less points than last season we will finish in a lower position add to that getting knocked out of the f a cup in the first round I have to disagree...OK, a few less goals and a few positions less....not exactly in freefall are we? Certainly not enough to be miserable about anyway
|
|
|
Post by Topper Gas on May 5, 2018 11:22:57 GMT
Beaches my dear chap we are going backwards just look at this season compared with last we have won fewer games we have lost more games we have not scored as many goals unless we get 8 tomorrow ok we have not conceded so many goals unless we let 4 in tomorrow we have a worse goal difference again unless we get at least 4 tomorrow less points than last season we will finish in a lower position add to that getting knocked out of the f a cup in the first round I have to disagree...OK, a few less goals and a few positions less....not exactly in freefall are we? Certainly not enough to be miserable about anyway Problem is the poor start to the season killed any hope of a good finish, at one point we looked like we could even be joining MK Dons and Northampton in a relegation fight. Plus Nichols has had a shocking goal return, if he'd contributed is usual dozen goals we could have easily beaten last season's finish. The challenge for DC now is to start next season on the front foot.
|
|