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Post by Henbury Gas on May 5, 2018 11:24:41 GMT
Return of the Snake is imminent
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Post by Topper Gas on May 5, 2018 11:29:52 GMT
presumably when exploring the UWE project, Dwane sports had outside investment lined up for the project. That is my reading of it. Dwane Sports is a conduit between the investments and the football club. I agree the any funds used to build a stadium (and maybe other funding too) would be third party money. We've simply no idea where the money for a stadium is likely to come from, assuming there is money ever available. It could be external investors, the ALQ's own money or even AJIB wanting to invest. We keep hearing on here from those apparently ITK i.e. Gasincider, Swissgas, KP, etc, etc that the ALQ's have no money, or Hani wants out, then next minute they are employing CEO's etc how I doubt come cheap.
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Post by Captain Jayho on May 5, 2018 11:46:08 GMT
That is my reading of it. Dwane Sports is a conduit between the investments and the football club. I agree the any funds used to build a stadium (and maybe other funding too) would be third party money. We've simply no idea where the money for a stadium is likely to come from, assuming there is money ever available. It could be external investors, the ALQ's own money or even AJIB wanting to invest. We keep hearing on here from those apparently ITK i.e. Gasincider, Swissgas, KP, etc, etc that the ALQ's have no money, or Hani wants out, then next minute they are employing CEO's etc how I doubt come cheap. Well the minute they write off some of the debt is the minute we know they are ultimately spending their money and not ours.
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Post by LJG on May 5, 2018 12:12:31 GMT
We've simply no idea where the money for a stadium is likely to come from, assuming there is money ever available. It could be external investors, the ALQ's own money or even AJIB wanting to invest. We keep hearing on here from those apparently ITK i.e. Gasincider, Swissgas, KP, etc, etc that the ALQ's have no money, or Hani wants out, then next minute they are employing CEO's etc how I doubt come cheap. Well the minute they write off some of the debt is the minute we know they are ultimately spending their money and not ours. Did Higgs, Dunford, Jelf and Ware write off debt? Genuine question.
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Post by Severncider on May 5, 2018 13:57:35 GMT
That is my reading of it. Dwane Sports is a conduit between the investments and the football club. I agree the any funds used to build a stadium (and maybe other funding too) would be third party money. We've simply no idea where the money for a stadium is likely to come from, assuming there is money ever available. It could be external investors, the ALQ's own money or even AJIB wanting to invest. We keep hearing on here from those apparently ITK i.e. Gasincider, Swissgas, KP, etc, etc that the ALQ's have no money, or Hani wants out, then next minute they are employing CEO's etc how I doubt come cheap. Maybe not, apparently.
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nsgas
Reserve Team
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Post by nsgas on May 5, 2018 14:03:47 GMT
That is my reading of it. Dwane Sports is a conduit between the investments and the football club. I agree the any funds used to build a stadium (and maybe other funding too) would be third party money. We've simply no idea where the money for a stadium is likely to come from, assuming there is money ever available. It could be external investors, the ALQ's own money or even AJIB wanting to invest. We keep hearing on here from those apparently ITK i.e. Gasincider, Swissgas, KP, etc, etc that the ALQ's have no money, or Hani wants out, then next minute they are employing CEO's etc how I doubt come cheap. It was reported in the media at the time that the Al Qadi's were looking for investors. Shortly before the UWE Stadium was announced as dead, I was talking to someone involved in the management and governance at UWE and I asked what was happening with regards to the stadium. I was told that they were waiting for Rovers to come up with the money.
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Post by knowall on May 5, 2018 14:10:13 GMT
We've simply no idea where the money for a stadium is likely to come from, assuming there is money ever available. It could be external investors, the ALQ's own money or even AJIB wanting to invest. We keep hearing on here from those apparently ITK i.e. Gasincider, Swissgas, KP, etc, etc that the ALQ's have no money, or Hani wants out, then next minute they are employing CEO's etc how I doubt come cheap. It was reported in the media at the time that the Al Qadi's were looking for investors.Shortly before the UWE Stadium was announced as dead, I was talking to someone involved in the management and governance at UWE and I asked what was happening with regards to the stadium. I was told that they were waiting for Rovers to come up with the money. Proof please or admit you are making this up
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Post by knowall on May 5, 2018 14:33:51 GMT
are we living within our means? No, but what is your solution?
The club requires investment to make it profitable doesn't it?
As I've said previously I hope the owners are looking as closely at improving revenues as they are on increasing costs. Investment is needed in the bricks and mortar infrastructure of the club as without that and a plan employing a head of recruitment is superfluous to our needs (probably like the office in London). Hopefully I'll be cheering the owners following the announcement of a concrete stadium proposal but I won't be holding my breath based on the progress seen to date on the training ground, the big problem with UWE was not owning the freehold but Dwane Sports own the freehold on the proposed training ground and still nothing us happening there (unless I've missed a development). Think along with Swiss I'm one of few that cares about the finances of the club. To LJG for a start I wouldn't be wasting money on that office in LondonPerhaps if you knew what goes on there you might have a different view ignorance is bliss (and biased)
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Post by knowall on May 5, 2018 14:37:09 GMT
We've simply no idea where the money for a stadium is likely to come from, assuming there is money ever available. It could be external investors, the ALQ's own money or even AJIB wanting to invest. We keep hearing on here from those apparently ITK i.e. Gasincider, Swissgas, KP, etc, etc that the ALQ's have no money, or Hani wants out, then next minute they are employing CEO's etc how I doubt come cheap. It was reported in the media at the time that the Al Qadi's were looking for investors. Shortly before the UWE Stadium was announced as dead, I was talking to someone involved in the management and governance at UWE and I asked what was happening with regards to the stadium. I was told that they were waiting for Rovers to come up with the money. are you sure it wasn't the cleaner?
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Post by Severncider on May 5, 2018 15:08:54 GMT
Knowall - What does "warning" mean underneath your five stars?
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Post by knowall on May 5, 2018 15:51:44 GMT
Well the minute they write off some of the debt is the minute we know they are ultimately spending their money and not ours. Did Higgs, Dunford, Jelf and Ware write off debt? Genuine question. no but they took interest on the loans
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Post by knowall on May 5, 2018 15:53:54 GMT
Knowall - What does "warning" mean underneath your five stars? probably means 'watch out this guy is a crackpot!'
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2018 15:57:53 GMT
We've simply no idea where the money for a stadium is likely to come from, assuming there is money ever available. It could be external investors, the ALQ's own money or even AJIB wanting to invest. We keep hearing on here from those apparently ITK i.e. Gasincider, Swissgas, KP, etc, etc that the ALQ's have no money, or Hani wants out, then next minute they are employing CEO's etc how I doubt come cheap. Well the minute they write off some of the debt is the minute we know they are ultimately spending their money and not ours. They are spending there own money, they own the club and all the assets above and below it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2018 15:59:17 GMT
We've simply no idea where the money for a stadium is likely to come from, assuming there is money ever available. It could be external investors, the ALQ's own money or even AJIB wanting to invest. We keep hearing on here from those apparently ITK i.e. Gasincider, Swissgas, KP, etc, etc that the ALQ's have no money, or Hani wants out, then next minute they are employing CEO's etc how I doubt come cheap. Maybe not, apparently. Wael overruled or the new incumbent has had a change of heart?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2018 16:04:44 GMT
Knowall - What does "warning" mean underneath your five stars? probably means 'watch out this guy is a crackpot!' You’ve been outed! 😂
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Post by knowall on May 5, 2018 16:11:47 GMT
probably means 'watch out this guy is a crackpot!' You’ve been outed! 😂 if i told you what it really means you would be impressed
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2018 16:13:42 GMT
if i told you what it really means you would be impressed Oh I do know. 😉
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Post by lastminutewinner on May 5, 2018 17:48:09 GMT
I was intrigued by Yates' text urging the owners to back DC financially.
He is a recent club employee who left of his own accord so has no axe to grind with anyone.
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Post by swissgas on May 5, 2018 19:06:23 GMT
Peter, remember the debates about outside investment in 2011/12 ? We were in a perfect position to attract it then with planning agreed for the UWE Stadium, hardly any debt and a huge amount of equity in the Memorial Stadium even without Sainsburys. All it needed was for Nick Higgs to have had the vision to realise that outside investment was essential to drive through the project and transform the club. It was a chance to finally get away from the small town mentality and an obsession with keeping hands on control which blights so many small businesses that could otherwise grow and prosper. We tried to persuade him but didn't succeed. Now we are in a far worse position with no equity in the Mem and nothing much to offer other than our place in League 1 and that elusive quality called potential. The solution is to bring in fresh risk capital to finance the new infrastructure required and the only way I can see that happening is for Dwane Sports to turn their loan into equity and be prepared to give up their majority shareholding. Interesting thoughts there, Swiss, were you privy to the agenda for change team? I missed a lot of that period for family reasons and never properly understood the politics behind it. As for the outside investment, were there really people or institutions who would accept the risk of taking shares in return for the investment? At least on that scale to find the stadium. Taking a share would mean their investment returns would depend on our performances and increasing our value, wouldn't it? By investing with loans in property they would be more likely to invest in the first place but would require a rate of return. Stuart, at the time I didn’t know any of the Agenda for Change team but I strongly agreed with their objectives the first of which was to “source and inject fresh financial capital for BRFC”. I liked the theme of “All of us working together” and the fact that those behind the RAFC were prepared to put a lot of thought and work into their vision for Rovers as evidenced by the documents “Blueprint for change” and “Seven Point Plan”. They wanted a polished, professional football club and took the trouble to explore all the possibilities rather than sit back in a comfort zone and watch as Rovers declined. Although I realise I am in a very small minority I would like to see Wael’s blueprint for the future because for me his interviews and and statements are much too woolly and essentially add up to nothing. If we could see and understand what the vision is we could all be confident and speak boldly about the future rather than, as Darrell Clarke did in this interview, trot out the timid old line about work going on “behind the scenes”. For someone to put up £20 million for stadium development as a loan and expect a rate of return of say 5% over 20 years the cost to Rovers would be about £1.6 million per year. How would that be paid on top of the football club losses ? But for someone interested in football, with a large amount of surplus cash and wanting to get into the English football pyramid it might be made to work. If Dwane Sports capitalised their £15 million loan and reduced their shareholding to 40% the nominal value of the club would be £ 37.5 million. If an investor put in £19.5 million cash for 52% a further £7.5 million could be leveraged at a reasonable rate to provide a fund of £27 million for redeveloping the stadium, incorporating income producing assets such as a hotel and for working capital. With a modern stadium, manageable debt, and substantial non-football income the club would have a sporting chance of reaching the Championship and possibly going further.
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Post by Topper Gas on May 5, 2018 20:30:46 GMT
Interesting thoughts there, Swiss, were you privy to the agenda for change team? I missed a lot of that period for family reasons and never properly understood the politics behind it. As for the outside investment, were there really people or institutions who would accept the risk of taking shares in return for the investment? At least on that scale to find the stadium. Taking a share would mean their investment returns would depend on our performances and increasing our value, wouldn't it? By investing with loans in property they would be more likely to invest in the first place but would require a rate of return. Stuart, at the time I didn’t know any of the Agenda for Change team but I strongly agreed with their objectives the first of which was to “source and inject fresh financial capital for BRFC”. I liked the theme of “All of us working together” and the fact that those behind the RAFC were prepared to put a lot of thought and work into their vision for Rovers as evidenced by the documents “Blueprint for change” and “Seven Point Plan”. They wanted a polished, professional football club and took the trouble to explore all the possibilities rather than sit back in a comfort zone and watch as Rovers declined. Although I realise I am in a very small minority I would like to see Wael’s blueprint for the future because for me his interviews and and statements are much too woolly and essentially add up to nothing. If we could see and understand what the vision is we could all be confident and speak boldly about the future rather than, as Darrell Clarke did in this interview, trot out the timid old line about work going on “behind the scenes”. For someone to put up £20 million for stadium development as a loan and expect a rate of return of say 5% over 20 years the cost to Rovers would be about £1.6 million per year. How would that be paid on top of the football club losses ? But for someone interested in football, with a large amount of surplus cash and wanting to get into the English football pyramid it might be made to work. If Dwane Sports capitalised their £15 million loan and reduced their shareholding to 40% the nominal value of the club would be £ 37.5 million. If an investor put in £19.5 million cash for 52% a further £7.5 million could be leveraged at a reasonable rate to provide a fund of £27 million for redeveloping the stadium, incorporating income producing assets such as a hotel and for working capital. With a modern stadium, manageable debt, and substantial non-football income the club would have a sporting chance of reaching the Championship and possibly going further. There you go again implying the ALQ's can't finance a new stadium themselves, is there any actual evidence they don't have the money, or at least the investors behind them, to finance it themselves?
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