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Post by aghast on Apr 30, 2019 21:36:42 GMT
Labour now backing a second referendum if Mrs May can't sort out herself out.
I think there is a good chance of a new referendum now. I didn't support the calls for a re-run, even as a Remainer myself, and always felt the People's Vote campaign was more than a little disingenuous.
In a second referendum, I think even some leavers will vote to remain, because it's better to be a part of the EU with voting rights and a veto, than to be effectively part of the EU with no vote, which is what her deal means.
I can't see the EU accepting a harder-line new position from May, and I can't see the Tories relishing the prospect of a General Election, and I can't see the House voting for yet more of the same stuff from May.
I think it's getting to the point where, through incompetence and conspiracy, there will never be a deal to leave presented in any form that will ever be accepted by enough of our MPs.
So it will be re-run, and we will narrowly vote to remain.
Maybe.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2019 21:50:15 GMT
Labour now backing a second referendum if Mrs May can't sort out herself out. I think there is a good chance of a new referendum now. I didn't support the calls for a re-run, even as a Remainer myself, and always felt the People's Vote campaign was more than a little disingenuous. In a second referendum, I think even some leavers will vote to remain, because it's better to be a part of the EU with voting rights and a veto, than to be effectively part of the EU with no vote, which is what her deal means. I can't see the EU accepting a harder-line new position from May, and I can't see the Tories relishing the prospect of a General Election, and I can't see the House voting for yet more of the same stuff from May. I think it's getting to the point where, through incompetence and conspiracy, there will never be a deal to leave presented in any form that will ever be accepted by enough of our MPs. So it will be re-run, and we will narrowly vote to remain. Maybe. Labour are just doing the same as they have always done on Brexit, and that's sitting on the fence. They support a Second Referendum if...if...if...maybe. As stated before, why should we believe that the politicians will enact the result of a second referendum if it's 52% v 48% to Leave? They didn't the first time. Oh hang on, they will enact a vote to Remain, but what if it is a vote to Leave again? They ignored it the first time and I don't believe anyone has confidence enough in them anymore. In other words, there can only be one outcome from a second referendum. Only one result will be enacted. Therefore, it's not a true vote is it? Plus, just what would the question be on the referendum ballot paper? Looking at the voting in Parliament I don't believe there is any mandate for a second referendum. I fully expect May to cave in to Labour to get enough votes for her terrible WA through the HoC. It seems obvious now that May is being told what to do by 'someone else'.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2019 21:53:59 GMT
Labour now backing a second referendum if Mrs May can't sort out herself out. I think there is a good chance of a new referendum now. I didn't support the calls for a re-run, even as a Remainer myself, and always felt the People's Vote campaign was more than a little disingenuous. In a second referendum, I think even some leavers will vote to remain, because it's better to be a part of the EU with voting rights and a veto, than to be effectively part of the EU with no vote, which is what her deal means. I can't see the EU accepting a harder-line new position from May, and I can't see the Tories relishing the prospect of a General Election, and I can't see the House voting for yet more of the same stuff from May. I think it's getting to the point where, through incompetence and conspiracy, there will never be a deal to leave presented in any form that will ever be accepted by enough of our MPs. So it will be re-run, and we will narrowly vote to remain. Maybe. I reckon some leave voters will switch to remain purely through being bored and fed up with it all but there will be some moderate Remainers who will have had their conscience pricked by what has become a complete betrayal of democracy after the original referendum result by the incompetent HoC. Many Leave voters (myself included) will be even more committed and desperate to leave the EU than ever before.
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2019 15:57:27 GMT
The next stich-up will happen soon. May is just waiting for the Local Elections to be over before she will cave-in to Labour demands. Between them they will hatch some sort of disastrous deal because they are both terrified of the EU Elections, when the Brexit Party will roll across both their lawns! They will both agree to virtually anything to stop the Brexit Party getting up any momentum (no pun intended).
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Post by baggins on May 2, 2019 11:11:20 GMT
The next stich-up will happen soon. May is just waiting for the Local Elections to be over before she will cave-in to Labour demands. Between them they will hatch some sort of disastrous deal because they are both terrified of the EU Elections, when the Brexit Party will roll across both their lawns! They will both agree to virtually anything to stop the Brexit Party getting up any momentum (no pun intended). The public voted for it, this is what they get. Nevermind.
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Post by peterparker on May 2, 2019 12:04:45 GMT
waiting for the first lot of numpties to scream foul play when they see no BREXIT party candistates on their council balot paper
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2019 13:34:40 GMT
The next stich-up will happen soon. May is just waiting for the Local Elections to be over before she will cave-in to Labour demands. Between them they will hatch some sort of disastrous deal because they are both terrified of the EU Elections, when the Brexit Party will roll across both their lawns! They will both agree to virtually anything to stop the Brexit Party getting up any momentum (no pun intended). The public voted for it, this is what they get. Nevermind. The farce that has become of brexit wasn't what the public voted for. It should never have been as difficult to make work as the incompetent, and in some cases deliberately destructive, MP's have made it look.
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2019 13:39:15 GMT
waiting for the first lot of numpties to scream foul play when they see no BREXIT party candistates on their council balot paper It will obviously happen because all brexit voters are thick are they not? In all seriousness it will only need one person to say something like that for them to be held up as "a typical brexit voter".
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Post by baggins on May 2, 2019 14:21:30 GMT
The public voted for it, this is what they get. Nevermind. The farce that has become of brexit wasn't what the public voted for. It should never have been as difficult to make work as the incompetent, and in some cases deliberately destructive, MP's have made it look. You read the literature, you heard the MP's, you saw the stats, you made your decision. This is what you wanted, what you voted for, blame yourself. Good luck.
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Post by peterparker on May 2, 2019 14:23:05 GMT
waiting for the first lot of numpties to scream foul play when they see no BREXIT party candistates on their council balot paper It will obviously happen because all brexit voters are thick are they not? In all seriousness it will only need one person to say something like that for them to be held up as "a typical brexit voter". I don't think all BREXIT voters are thick
I think some BREXIT voters voted for it, because they think it is the right thing even though I would disagree with them.
However you can't swithch on Facebook or Twitter without some people sharing complete nonsense and demanding we leave now because of Islamification, Sharia law, ECJ etc, etc
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2019 15:03:23 GMT
It will obviously happen because all brexit voters are thick are they not? In all seriousness it will only need one person to say something like that for them to be held up as "a typical brexit voter". I don't think all BREXIT voters are thick
I think some BREXIT voters voted for it, because they think it is the right thing even though I would disagree with them.
However you can't swithch on Facebook or Twitter without some people sharing complete nonsense and demanding we leave now because of Islamification, Sharia law, ECJ etc, etc
Or you could ask, "who will be serving us our coffee's in Pret".....There are idiots on both sides. That's human nature I'm afraid.
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Post by peterparker on May 2, 2019 16:02:57 GMT
I don't think all BREXIT voters are thick
I think some BREXIT voters voted for it, because they think it is the right thing even though I would disagree with them.
However you can't swithch on Facebook or Twitter without some people sharing complete nonsense and demanding we leave now because of Islamification, Sharia law, ECJ etc, etc
Or you could ask, "who will be serving us our coffee's in Pret".....There are idiots on both sides. That's human nature I'm afraid. yes that is daft, but there is the point hat has been made and is fact that are immigrants over here doing jobs British people don't seemingly want to do
There are enough stories about shortage of labour and the impact of BREXIT on certain industries
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2019 16:46:12 GMT
Or you could ask, "who will be serving us our coffee's in Pret".....There are idiots on both sides. That's human nature I'm afraid. yes that is daft, but there is the point hat has been made and is fact that are immigrants over here doing jobs British people don't seemingly want to do
There are enough stories about shortage of labour and the impact of BREXIT on certain industries
Once again though....nobody is being kicked out of the UK because of Brexit! It is actually the one thing both sides agree on.
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2019 17:19:55 GMT
"Gavin Williamson said to be receiving counselling as he tries to come to terms with the idea of being considered unfit for government by Theresa May." HIGNFY
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2019 18:35:10 GMT
The farce that has become of brexit wasn't what the public voted for. It should never have been as difficult to make work as the incompetent, and in some cases deliberately destructive, MP's have made it look. You read the literature, you heard the MP's, you saw the stats, you made your decision. This is what you wanted, what you voted for, blame yourself. Good luck. I can't remember reading literature that said TM would make a complete pigs ear of negotiation, that MP's of leave constituencies were deliberately ignoring democracy and the will of their constituents by trying to sabotage any possibility of a fair deal or that the EU would be allowed to dictate terms. Perhaps you could show me where to find this literature? As much as those who lost want to deny democracy there is no reason why, with a better government and a better quality of MP's with morals across the house, we could have had a far better outcome than still be stuck in this current limbo.
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Post by baggins on May 2, 2019 18:47:19 GMT
You read the literature, you heard the MP's, you saw the stats, you made your decision. This is what you wanted, what you voted for, blame yourself. Good luck. I can't remember reading literature that said TM would make a complete pigs ear of negotiation, that MP's of leave constituencies were deliberately ignoring democracy and the will of their constituents by trying to sabotage any possibility of a fair deal or that the EU would be allowed to dictate terms. Perhaps you could show me where to find this literature? As much as those who lost want to deny democracy there is no reason why, with a better government and a better quality of MP's with morals across the house, we could have had a far better outcome than still be stuck in this current limbo. I threw my pamphlet away. It's all a complete mess. I need some sun.
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2019 18:57:11 GMT
I can't remember reading literature that said TM would make a complete pigs ear of negotiation, that MP's of leave constituencies were deliberately ignoring democracy and the will of their constituents by trying to sabotage any possibility of a fair deal or that the EU would be allowed to dictate terms. Perhaps you could show me where to find this literature? As much as those who lost want to deny democracy there is no reason why, with a better government and a better quality of MP's with morals across the house, we could have had a far better outcome than still be stuck in this current limbo. I threw my pamphlet away. It's all a complete mess. I need someones son. Fixed it for you!
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Post by peterparker on May 3, 2019 6:58:48 GMT
I see Labour are losing seats.
Do they go 'Full BREXIT? Full Remian or 2nd Vote. They need to get off of that fence they have been sitting on. They are going to lose voters one way or another so might as well bite the bullet and choose a path
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Post by trevorgas on May 3, 2019 7:50:53 GMT
I see Labour are losing seats. Do they go 'Full BREXIT? Full Remian or 2nd Vote. They need to get off of that fence they have been sitting on. They are going to lose voters one way or another so might as well bite the bullet and choose a path They should honour their manifesto pledge under which they were elected to respect the result of the referendum and deliver Brexit, otherwise they will join the ranks of all those politicians who just lie and take the electorate for granted.
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Post by peterparker on May 3, 2019 8:14:25 GMT
I see Labour are losing seats. Do they go 'Full BREXIT? Full Remian or 2nd Vote. They need to get off of that fence they have been sitting on. They are going to lose voters one way or another so might as well bite the bullet and choose a path They should honour their manifesto pledge under which they were elected to respect the result of the referendum and deliver Brexit, otherwise they will join the ranks of all those politicians who just lie and take the electorate for granted. But their membership is now telling them otherwise. That's their rock and hard place (much like the Tories in some respects) balancing the views of their membership with that of the wider electorate
THe only parties going to gain from this are the likes of The Lib Dems, BREXIT Party and possibly Change with the SNP maintaing their relative strength.
Labour aren't goin to win either way so they must choose a path and walk it and have to rebuild themselves
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