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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2019 8:41:26 GMT
The Tory Party were once a ruthless machine. This is the party that got rid of Margaret Thatcher, yet she never lost a vote, had just won a Vote of No Confidence, and had a majority of something like 150 in the HoC! Now, they just dither over getting rid of May. May lost their majority in a snap GE, has won the Gold and Bronze medals for the heaviest defeats of a sitting Government in the HoC, EVER! Has lost over 1300 Local Councillors, has had more Ministers resign than any other Tory PM. Every time she opens her mouth it just drains support away from the Tories. The 1922 Committee are expected to step up to the plate today. Not only will they present May with a strongly worded letter, but this time it will be printed in a harsh font! That'll learn her!
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Post by stuart1974 on May 22, 2019 8:57:01 GMT
The hokey coaky partnership is what was promised by many on the leave side, including people like Gove, Raab, Hannan, Fox..... There is compromise, but only if people are willing to accommodate and give a bit. Well, her WA is basically BRINO, yet the Extreme Remainers voted against it ! There cannot be a compromise. Many leave MPs have stated they would rather stay than vote for the WA. When I aaked a while ago if you would rather stay or have the WA you reluctantly said you would go for the WA (as I would if the other option was leave without an arrangement). There must have been something there you could support. Compromise could be made, just because something is difficult doesn't mean it shouldn't be attempted. 😎
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2019 9:15:00 GMT
Well, her WA is basically BRINO, yet the Extreme Remainers voted against it ! There cannot be a compromise. Many leave MPs have stated they would rather stay than vote for the WA. When I aaked a while ago if you would rather stay or have the WA you reluctantly said you would go for the WA (as I would if the other option was leave without an arrangement). There must have been something there you could support. Compromise could be made, just because something is difficult doesn't mean it shouldn't be attempted. 😎 But compromise over something that is binary is basically not difficult, but impossible. Look at the EU trade deals with Japan, Canada etc. Do these countries have to belong to the EU Customs Union? No. Do they have to pay to have access to the Single Market? No. Do they have to accept EU laws and regulations in their own countries? No. Do they have to accept Freedom of Movement? No. Do they have to accept Regulatory Alignment with the EU? No. Can they trade with the EU? Yes. Why do people think we need anything different? Why can't the UK have the same? Free Trade. Isn't that what it was all meant to be about? To be honest, that is what people want.
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2019 9:33:11 GMT
British Steel
"British Steel has been given a £100m loan from the government in order to meet EU emission rules.
Previously, the company could have used EU-issued carbon credits to settle its 2018 pollution bill.
However, the steel maker has been affected by a European Union decision to suspend UK firms' access to free carbon permits until a Brexit withdrawal deal is ratified.
The EU's emissions trading system's rules allow industrial polluters to use carbon credits to pay for the previous year's emissions, or trade them to raise money.
Each free permit gives a firm the right to emit a tonne (1,000kg) of carbon dioxide (CO2), and they can be traded for money."
and just how on earth can companies compete with China when they are hamstrung with these stupid laws and regulations?
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Post by stuart1974 on May 22, 2019 9:47:16 GMT
Many leave MPs have stated they would rather stay than vote for the WA. When I aaked a while ago if you would rather stay or have the WA you reluctantly said you would go for the WA (as I would if the other option was leave without an arrangement). There must have been something there you could support. Compromise could be made, just because something is difficult doesn't mean it shouldn't be attempted. 😎 But compromise over something that is binary is basically not difficult, but impossible. Look at the EU trade deals with Japan, Canada etc. Do these countries have to belong to the EU Customs Union? No. Do they have to pay to have access to the Single Market? No. Do they have to accept EU laws and regulations in their own countries? No. Do they have to accept Freedom of Movement? No. Do they have to accept Regulatory Alignment with the EU? No. Can they trade with the EU? Yes. Why do people think we need anything different? Why can't the UK have the same? Free Trade. Isn't that what it was all meant to be about? To be honest, that is what people want. The question was binary but the options are not. It depends on your reasons for leaving (or remaining). I have few concerns over leaving from a political point of view so something akin to Norway would have been acceptable. Unfortunately some seemed to take a different interpretation of the result. Anyway, what these options are is less easy trading which will have a knock on effect. Canada still requires checks and isn't a panacea, and neither is Norway. Both are compromises. fullfact.org/europe/brexit-trade-deals-norway-canada-options/
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2019 10:03:21 GMT
But compromise over something that is binary is basically not difficult, but impossible. Look at the EU trade deals with Japan, Canada etc. Do these countries have to belong to the EU Customs Union? No. Do they have to pay to have access to the Single Market? No. Do they have to accept EU laws and regulations in their own countries? No. Do they have to accept Freedom of Movement? No. Do they have to accept Regulatory Alignment with the EU? No. Can they trade with the EU? Yes. Why do people think we need anything different? Why can't the UK have the same? Free Trade. Isn't that what it was all meant to be about? To be honest, that is what people want. The question was binary but the options are not. It depends on your reasons for leaving (or remaining). I have few concerns over leaving from a political point of view so something akin to Norway would have been acceptable. Unfortunately some seemed to take a different interpretation of the result. Anyway, what these options are is less easy trading which will have a knock on effect. Canada still requires checks and isn't a panacea, and neither is Norway. Both are compromises. fullfact.org/europe/brexit-trade-deals-norway-canada-options/The political effects of leaving are negligible until a future government starts to unpick the laws that affect employment law, environment laws and laws that protect our basic freedoms, such as Human Rights. Whatever the economic compromises made by definition will have an affect. We remainers try to calculate that from the status quo, ie where we are now. Leavers, so far, point to a future which is better than where we are now without being able to explain how. In essence then the compromise is to jump without knowing where we will land, as a Remainer. That's a hard sell, if you are an MP in a representative democracy.
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2019 10:20:02 GMT
But compromise over something that is binary is basically not difficult, but impossible. Look at the EU trade deals with Japan, Canada etc. Do these countries have to belong to the EU Customs Union? No. Do they have to pay to have access to the Single Market? No. Do they have to accept EU laws and regulations in their own countries? No. Do they have to accept Freedom of Movement? No. Do they have to accept Regulatory Alignment with the EU? No. Can they trade with the EU? Yes. Why do people think we need anything different? Why can't the UK have the same? Free Trade. Isn't that what it was all meant to be about? To be honest, that is what people want. The question was binary but the options are not. It depends on your reasons for leaving (or remaining). I have few concerns over leaving from a political point of view so something akin to Norway would have been acceptable. Unfortunately some seemed to take a different interpretation of the result. Anyway, what these options are is less easy trading which will have a knock on effect. Canada still requires checks and isn't a panacea, and neither is Norway. Both are compromises. fullfact.org/europe/brexit-trade-deals-norway-canada-options/In my opinion, the Norway deal is a non-started. Even the Norgies don't like it ! The point about Canada, Japan etc is that they trade with the EU but don't have to accept all these things that the UK are discussing, or as you say, we have to compromise about.
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Post by peterparker on May 22, 2019 10:33:41 GMT
The question was binary but the options are not. It depends on your reasons for leaving (or remaining). I have few concerns over leaving from a political point of view so something akin to Norway would have been acceptable. Unfortunately some seemed to take a different interpretation of the result. Anyway, what these options are is less easy trading which will have a knock on effect. Canada still requires checks and isn't a panacea, and neither is Norway. Both are compromises. fullfact.org/europe/brexit-trade-deals-norway-canada-options/In my opinion, the Norway deal is a non-started. Even the Norgies don't like it ! The point about Canada, Japan etc is that they trade with the EU but don't have to accept all these things that the UK are discussing, or as you say, we have to compromise about. we still have to accept certain standards to a degree otherwise EU countries won't buy certain goods, be it emissions or food standards whatever. Not a problem at the moment, but if we diverge down a different path as time goes on..
That might never be a problem though, but let's not pretend it's just a case of signing a bit of paper that says free trade, just like No deal leavers preaching WTO make out
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2019 10:40:31 GMT
In my opinion, the Norway deal is a non-started. Even the Norgies don't like it ! The point about Canada, Japan etc is that they trade with the EU but don't have to accept all these things that the UK are discussing, or as you say, we have to compromise about. we still have to accept certain standards to a degree otherwise EU countries won't by certain goods, be it emissions or food standards whatever. Not a problem at the moment, but if we diverge down a different path as time goes on.
That might never be a problem though, but let's not pretend it's just a case of signing a bit of paper that says free trade, just like No deal leavers preaching WTO make out
If you sell into any market then your goods have to conform to the standards of that market. That works all around the world.
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2019 11:18:15 GMT
PMQ's - The hot topic is obviously Brexit, with the collapse of British Steel also high on the agenda. The Tories are literally on the ropes.....so just what does the Leader of Her Majesties Opposition Party open with? Why are schools closing early on a Friday! You really couldn't make this sh1t up !
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2019 11:19:06 GMT
we still have to accept certain standards to a degree otherwise EU countries won't by certain goods, be it emissions or food standards whatever. Not a problem at the moment, but if we diverge down a different path as time goes on.
That might never be a problem though, but let's not pretend it's just a case of signing a bit of paper that says free trade, just like No deal leavers preaching WTO make out
If you sell into any market then your goods have to conform to the standards of that market. That works all around the world. Except China, who demand access to patented current technology to grant access to their markets.
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2019 11:20:54 GMT
PMQ's - The hot topic is obviously Brexit, with the collapse of British Steel also high on the agenda. The Tories are literally on the ropes.....so just what does the Leader of Her Majesties Opposition Party open with? Why are schools closing early on a Friday! You really couldn't make this sh1t up ! Corbyn has to be the most laughable leader of an opposition party, ever.
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Post by baggins on May 22, 2019 11:35:57 GMT
Good old Tories.
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Post by stuart1974 on May 22, 2019 18:44:05 GMT
Andrea Leadsom just resigned. It's going to be an interesting 24-48 hours.
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2019 18:56:40 GMT
Andrea Leadsom just resigned. It's going to be an interesting 24-48 hours. The centre right unravelling...leaving a vacuum. The centre left beaten back by the ultra absolutists in Labour, leaving a vacuum. Farage Vs the Hard Left. Dam great. All because the loonies wanted to leave the EU.
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Post by stuart1974 on May 22, 2019 19:05:51 GMT
Andrea Leadsom just resigned. It's going to be an interesting 24-48 hours. The centre right unravelling...leaving a vacuum. The centre left beaten back by the ultra absolutists in Labour, leaving a vacuum. Farage Vs the Hard Left. f**king great. All because the loonies wanted to leave the EU. Agreed a 6 month extension and recommended not to waste it.....so Parliament goes on holiday, followed by insincere cross party discussions and almost certainly a leadership contest. Good use of our time, not.
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Post by peterparker on May 22, 2019 19:08:11 GMT
The centre right unravelling...leaving a vacuum. The centre left beaten back by the ultra absolutists in Labour, leaving a vacuum. Farage Vs the Hard Left. f**king great. All because the loonies wanted to leave the EU. Agreed a 6 month extension and recommended not to waste it.....so Parliament goes on holiday, followed by insincere cross party discussions and almost certainly a leadership contest. Good use of our time, not. Add in summer recess and conference season as well. Complete waste of everyones time
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2019 19:20:35 GMT
Agreed a 6 month extension and recommended not to waste it.....so Parliament goes on holiday, followed by insincere cross party discussions and almost certainly a leadership contest. Good use of our time, not. Add in summer recess and conference season as well. Complete waste of everyones time Totally.
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Post by stuart1974 on May 22, 2019 19:54:31 GMT
Agreed a 6 month extension and recommended not to waste it.....so Parliament goes on holiday, followed by insincere cross party discussions and almost certainly a leadership contest. Good use of our time, not. Add in summer recess and conference season as well. Complete waste of everyones time The whole saga has been a waste of everybody's time, money and effort. The nation is collateral damage in the Conservative Party's internal civil war.
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2019 8:07:52 GMT
Live pictures from Downing Street.....
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