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Post by gaelgas on Nov 26, 2018 18:31:23 GMT
Lots of finger pointing at lots of people on here. What do you think is the primary problem at Rovers? Hani and Wael? The people on the board who have been appointed to run the club for our absent owners? DC. Tactics and signings just not good enough? The players? Are they putting a shift in? Fans. Have we all got a bit up ourselves and somewhat entitled? Or is it a bit of everything? You can select all 6 answers like I did if you so feel inclined. A bit of everything . Crazy to point the finger at one thing. Rudderless board Poor tactics Poor signings Bad luck I could go on. Agree, bit of everything but it does sound like groundhog Day, Dunfords came in, saved our arses within a few years everyone was calling for them to go, Higgs came in, gashead through and through, successful business man, most were happy to have a gashead in charge, within a few years that went south, then the Al Qaedis came in, we all (mostly) jumped on the bandwagon, believed the hype (not all of which came from them), now they are supposedly destroying our club. Honestly I do not know what the answer is, maybe we have been really unlucky with our owners, but it always seems to follow the same pattern. đ đ đ đ
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Post by chilly1883 on Nov 26, 2018 19:11:19 GMT
I blame the Ref
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Post by Midsomer Murderer on Nov 26, 2018 20:34:29 GMT
Two words ~ Diane Abbott
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2018 21:07:42 GMT
Good thread.
Interesting question, although I'm unsure if the spread of votes is reflective of the polarisation of opinions on this forum or just that there is clearly more than one aspect, whichever side of the argument you sit on.
I've voted for the owners, the players and the fans.
The owners are for me the root cause of our recent demise and would have got the vote had it been restricted to one vote. It's nor even necessarily about money, but I feel the lack of leadership from the very top, the lack of direction or any apparent plan for the club has been the biggest factor in the general mood amongst everyone else.
The board are mere puppets in my opinion. I don't like to hear Steve Hamer on the radio being critical of players etc as I feel that is unprofessional however I wouldn't blame him for the positiom we are in.
Darrell is a top manager however even as a big fan of his, I accept he has made some decisions this season that appear odd at first glance. I'd like to see him build a side around Lines' creativity and the fact that we often play 3-5-2 now enables him to solve the conundrum if how to play Sercombe with him. It's also fair to say that so far, the summer signings haven't worked out. And yet, given the broken promises, the constraints he works under and the repeated sales of his best players, could anyone have done better? Not a chance.
The players also have to accept blame. Too many haven't turned up this season and in one or two cases it seems there may be issues. They're the ones not putting the ball in the net, they're the ones making basic errors, they are also culpable. However, they need and deserve our continued support.
Which brings me to the last vote. Us, the fans. Harsh to blame us in some ways, but at every home match with the exception of the second half against Pompey, the Mem has been like a library. I know the performances or, more to the point, the results haven't been great, but our job is to support, to be loud, to get behind the team and to save the criticisms and debate for the forum or the pub. On more than one occasion this year, instances of poor fan behaviour has been apparent too.
In summary, there is no one person to blame, although I do believe that some are more culpable than others. All we can do is get our own house in order and make the Mem the fortress it used to be by getting behind our boys UNCONDITIONALLY for the entire 90 minutes. UTG
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Nov 26, 2018 21:36:56 GMT
I'm certainly surprised by the spread of votes that this thread has but it does highlight that there is no quick and easy fix.
I'm not sure if that's a good or bad thing. It does show that even if he is to blame, changing the manager probably won't have any effect.
Clearly most of us are laying the blame at the foot of the owners.
I was surprised to see the number of people who, like me, believe we have a pretty poor and underperforming group of players.
Whatever way you look at it, the club appears to be in a complete mess from top to bottom and is so at every stage in-between!
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Post by completewingback on Nov 26, 2018 22:39:26 GMT
The majority of the blame has to fall onto the owners and the board. They're the ones consistently *ing up and not delivering, even moreso than the players. I've seen few clubs where upstairs turmoil didn't affect pitch performance, so of course everything else is circumstantial.
I could outline DC, the players and even the fanbase's share of the blame in all this, because those DO exist, but put them all together and it's still not comparable to what the higher-ups owe us.
Also, no Santa's Grotto this year is affecting player morale
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2018 22:49:43 GMT
Wael came onto the scene talking about giving the fans the football club they deserved. He talked about the new ground,the training ground and a cat 2 academy. Three very expensive projects of course and he pointed out it was evolutionary. But very little important has happened So i blame the owners most. I think dc has made some bad mistakes and some players havnt performed to their ability as well as some mysterious unknown stuff that appears to have gone on which has also badly effected the team. But the owners set the mood for the season before it even began.
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stuart1974
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Post by stuart1974 on Nov 26, 2018 23:25:01 GMT
The feel good factor definitely evaporated when the UWE dragged out and then went. So the momentum was lost then. It was then compounded by poor PR and no progress on the training ground.
Even the proposed scaled down plans (with additions coming later when finances allowed) would have shown intent and goodwill. It would have ticked one of the promises made.
I think fans would understand if we had to start again on the stadium front but some progress in the other areas would have made that palatable.
Difficult to comment about the footballing side but it seems from my view that DC has received support, whether he used it correctly or support was minimal, I don't know. It does seem that he had some funding and recruited a defence coach and Head of Recruitment as requested.
70/30 between off field (owners and third parties?) and on field (DC and players) with fans caught in the middle.
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Post by Feeling The Blues on Nov 27, 2018 0:00:53 GMT
The feel good factor definitely evaporated when the UWE dragged out and then went. So the momentum was lost then. It was then compounded by poor PR and no progress on the training ground. Even the proposed scaled down plans (with additions coming later when finances allowed) would have shown intent and goodwill. It would have ticked one of the promises made. I think fans would understand if we had to start again on the stadium front but some progress in the other areas would have made that palatable. Difficult to comment about the footballing side but it seems from my view that DC has received support, whether he used it correctly or support was minimal, I don't know. It does seem that he had some funding and recruited a defence coach and Head of Recruitment as requested. 70/30 between off field (owners and third parties?) and on field (DC and players) with fans caught in the middle. Your first paragraph is bang on for me. That day at the beginning of August 2017 when they pulled the plug on UWE was the day I lost all faith, confidence and trust in the ALQs. If they had pulled out because it wasnât in the best interests of the football club and moved straight on to plan B it would have been different but the lack of an alternative and the lack of action since on this or anything else tangible has only confirmed my suspicion at the time, that the reason they pulled out of UWE was nothing to do with the interests of the football club it was solely down to the fact they had either a lack of capital or a lack of will to invest what would be necessary. All that would have been fine too if theyâd come in like the Dunfords did telling us that the club was in serious trouble because of decisions made by others before them and they were going to simply ensure we had a future. Thatâs not how they came in though and the rhetoric was all about new stadium, new training ground moving the club to another level etc. Iâm not sure now that any of that was anything more than hot air and weâve all been taken for mugs. I feel that the reason we were bought by the ALQs was not because of a grand plan to build a fantastic legacy with an underperforming big city club (they wouldnât have been sniffing around Gillingham beforehand if that was the grand masterplan) but simply because Wael wanted a football club, we were cheap and had assets worth way more than the debt and had an owner that was so desperate to sell he did so for a price that they thought they couldnât lose. Wael said at the time it was an unbelievable deal from their point of view or words to that effect!
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Post by blueblood1883 on Nov 27, 2018 3:42:39 GMT
The feel good factor definitely evaporated when the UWE dragged out and then went. So the momentum was lost then. It was then compounded by poor PR and no progress on the training ground. Even the proposed scaled down plans (with additions coming later when finances allowed) would have shown intent and goodwill. It would have ticked one of the promises made. I think fans would understand if we had to start again on the stadium front but some progress in the other areas would have made that palatable. Difficult to comment about the footballing side but it seems from my view that DC has received support, whether he used it correctly or support was minimal, I don't know. It does seem that he had some funding and recruited a defence coach and Head of Recruitment as requested. 70/30 between off field (owners and third parties?) and on field (DC and players) with fans caught in the middle. Your first paragraph is bang on for me. That day at the beginning of August 2017 when they pulled the plug on UWE was the day I lost all faith, confidence and trust in the ALQs. If they had pulled out because it wasnât in the best interests of the football club and moved straight on to plan B it would have been different but the lack of an alternative and the lack of action since on this or anything else tangible has only confirmed my suspicion at the time, that the reason they pulled out of UWE was nothing to do with the interests of the football club it was solely down to the fact they had either a lack of capital or a lack of will to invest what would be necessary. All that would have been fine too if theyâd come in like the Dunfords did telling us that the club was in  serious trouble because of decisions made by others before them and they were going to simply ensure we had a future. Thatâs not how they came in though and the rhetoric was all about new stadium, new training ground moving the club to another level etc. Iâm not sure now that any of that was anything more than hot air and weâve all been taken for mugs. I feel that the reason we were bought by the ALQs was not because of a grand plan to build a fantastic legacy with an underperforming big city club (they wouldnât have been sniffing around Gillingham beforehand if that was the grand masterplan) but simply  because Wael wanted a football club, we were cheap and had assets worth way more than the debt and had an owner that was so desperate to sell he did so for a price that they thought they couldnât lose. Wael said at the time it was an unbelievable deal from their point of view or words to that effect! An excellent post my friend and word for word exactly how I see things. The rhetoric you speak about is also interesting with phrases like "evolution not revolution" and "the landing lights are on" . Neither of those conundrums have timelines and I believe we've been peddled an intended clever play on words that we are now beginning to see through.
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Post by Antonio Fargas on Nov 27, 2018 9:54:19 GMT
Your first paragraph is bang on for me. That day at the beginning of August 2017 when they pulled the plug on UWE was the day I lost all faith, confidence and trust in the ALQs. If they had pulled out because it wasnât in the best interests of the football club and moved straight on to plan B it would have been different but the lack of an alternative and the lack of action since on this or anything else tangible has only confirmed my suspicion at the time, that the reason they pulled out of UWE was nothing to do with the interests of the football club it was solely down to the fact they had either a lack of capital or a lack of will to invest what would be necessary. All that would have been fine too if theyâd come in like the Dunfords did telling us that the club was in serious trouble because of decisions made by others before them and they were going to simply ensure we had a future. Thatâs not how they came in though and the rhetoric was all about new stadium, new training ground moving the club to another level etc. Iâm not sure now that any of that was anything more than hot air and weâve all been taken for mugs. I feel that the reason we were bought by the ALQs was not because of a grand plan to build a fantastic legacy with an underperforming big city club (they wouldnât have been sniffing around Gillingham beforehand if that was the grand masterplan) but simply because Wael wanted a football club, we were cheap and had assets worth way more than the debt and had an owner that was so desperate to sell he did so for a price that they thought they couldnât lose. Wael said at the time it was an unbelievable deal from their point of view or words to that effect! An excellent post my friend and word for word exactly how I see things. The rhetoric you speak about is also interesting with phrases like "evolution not revolution" and "the landing lights are on" . Neither of those conundrums have timelines and I believe we've been peddled an intended clever play on words that we are now beginning to see through. Well, if we're being peddled a clever play on words, then they're really sh** at it. Every other regime at Rovers has managed to string us along indefinitely with the promise of a new stadium. So, you don't need to be that clever to do it, and we're really not that good at seeing through it.
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Post by scoobydoogas on Nov 27, 2018 13:01:23 GMT
I'm the one to blame. A season ticket holder that's missed a couple of games. The upshot is that I've not seen Rovers win this season and they've only picked up two points in the games that I've been to. Hence, I'm not going tonight in the hope that Rovers will pick up 3 points.
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Post by mehewmagic on Nov 27, 2018 13:34:37 GMT
No direction from the owners, board arenât they the same? If you mean Hamer, heâs just a mouthpiece for the owners. DC has to take a share of the blame, tactics and recruitment not the best this season. Some players donât seem interested. Weâve also had some very bad luck, had that pen been given against Barnet and weâd won and weâd been looking at playing Stockport it would be different but it isnât. Fans, not so sure but in the Thatchers last week a few next to me seemed pleased when Barnet scored although perhaps it was just gallows humour. Fans usually reflect whatâs going on on the field so not really their fault but one or two probably donât help. A bit of everything then! More to the point, to get out of this mess needs everyone to do what they do a bit better, owners, DC, players and fans and also hope our luck turns and we get a bit of the rub of the green. And preferably a referee or two who can see a foul from three yards! UTG! That's partly where the complexity lies. As someone who knows a lot about charity and educational boards, it's an interesting one. I don't claim to know much about business boards so it's an interesting one for me. Only 2 people on our Board of Directors represent shareholders in the company, and one of those represents a company who owns around 92% of it. The Chair is paid. How exactly do they therefore operate? Would be fascinating to read their rules / procedures.
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Post by mehewmagic on Nov 27, 2018 13:38:53 GMT
Good thread. Interesting question, although I'm unsure if the spread of votes is reflective of the polarisation of opinions on this forum or just that there is clearly more than one aspect, whichever side of the argument you sit on. I've voted for the owners, the players and the fans. The owners are for me the root cause of our recent demise and would have got the vote had it been restricted to one vote. It's nor even necessarily about money, but I feel the lack of leadership from the very top, the lack of direction or any apparent plan for the club has been the biggest factor in the general mood amongst everyone else. The board are mere puppets in my opinion. I don't like to hear Steve Hamer on the radio being critical of players etc as I feel that is unprofessional however I wouldn't blame him for the positiom we are in. Darrell is a top manager however even as a big fan of his, I accept he has made some decisions this season that appear odd at first glance. I'd like to see him build a side around Lines' creativity and the fact that we often play 3-5-2 now enables him to solve the conundrum if how to play Sercombe with him. It's also fair to say that so far, the summer signings haven't worked out. And yet, given the broken promises, the constraints he works under and the repeated sales of his best players, could anyone have done better? Not a chance. The players also have to accept blame. Too many haven't turned up this season and in one or two cases it seems there may be issues. They're the ones not putting the ball in the net, they're the ones making basic errors, they are also culpable. However, they need and deserve our continued support. Which brings me to the last vote. Us, the fans. Harsh to blame us in some ways, but at every home match with the exception of the second half against Pompey, the Mem has been like a library. I know the performances or, more to the point, the results haven't been great, but our job is to support, to be loud, to get behind the team and to save the criticisms and debate for the forum or the pub. On more than one occasion this year, instances of poor fan behaviour has been apparent too. In summary, there is no one person to blame, although I do believe that some are more culpable than others. All we can do is get our own house in order and make the Mem the fortress it used to be by getting behind our boys UNCONDITIONALLY for the entire 90 minutes. UTG Thanks. You saved me quite a lot of writing.
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Post by mehewmagic on Nov 27, 2018 13:39:45 GMT
The feel good factor definitely evaporated when the UWE dragged out and then went. So the momentum was lost then. It was then compounded by poor PR and no progress on the training ground. Even the proposed scaled down plans (with additions coming later when finances allowed) would have shown intent and goodwill. It would have ticked one of the promises made. I think fans would understand if we had to start again on the stadium front but some progress in the other areas would have made that palatable. Difficult to comment about the footballing side but it seems from my view that DC has received support, whether he used it correctly or support was minimal, I don't know. It does seem that he had some funding and recruited a defence coach and Head of Recruitment as requested. 70/30 between off field (owners and third parties?) and on field (DC and players) with fans caught in the middle. ditto
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2018 13:42:55 GMT
Im blaming everyone bar the fans! Weâve done nothing but support this club through thin and thinner! Conference promotion was great but we should of never been there! League 2 promotions were both good in my time and thatâs about the height of our âsuccessâ - we are a playoff league 2 team. Itâs the hope of being more thatâs made me so flat and disillusioned! Canât wait to watch in comfort with aesthetic beauty! One day lads and lasses, one day...
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Post by tecallaghan on Nov 27, 2018 14:57:12 GMT
I don't think the fans need blame. There are certainly those who take it too far and shower unnecessary abuse at players, but that's individual. That's not a reflection on everyone.
The biggest failings have come from the players and DC in under-performing and making the wrong decisions at times. There's been underlying factors to certain positions and players in the season, but ultimately the only people who can change our league position are the eleven on the pitch and the guy in the technical area making the decisions. They need to step up.
But ultimately the board and owners are failing too. The training ground doesn't seem to have direction and neither does the stadium. The playing budget is being slimmed down and we are not replacing talent with talent. More importantly, we are restricting depth in the team and a few injuries can render our first team obsolete. To me, it feels like there is no synergy in the club to where anything flows to serve the first team. It's the eleven on the pitch that wins games and the club doesn't seem to flow to serve that purpose. Inevitably you'll never gain success if that's the case.
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Post by Dirt Dogg on Nov 27, 2018 15:03:58 GMT
Itâs all Corbynâs fault.
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Post by Antonio Fargas on Nov 27, 2018 15:07:22 GMT
Seven hundred and Twenty-Nine words ~ Diane Abbot.
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Post by justin blue on Nov 27, 2018 15:11:29 GMT
The Owners for me they came in on the crest of a wave back to back promotions, potential to become a force once again and a feel good factor the like of which has not been seen for decades. They have since stifled any hope that we had of progressing we are treading water and are about to sink. They have allowed all of the good work done by DC and the boys to go to waste by their sheer indifference.
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