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Post by buckrippers on Oct 16, 2014 11:01:01 GMT
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Post by Big Dave on Oct 16, 2014 11:25:57 GMT
I assume you're taking the Widdle out of (in order) FIFA, Twitter, the FA, our board, our club...
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Post by buckrippers on Oct 16, 2014 11:28:10 GMT
I assume you're taking the Widdle out of (in order) FIFA, Twitter, the FA, our board, our club... Don't understand your point Dave. Taking the widdle? Why? |
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Post by Big Dave on Oct 16, 2014 11:35:44 GMT
How does holding up 5000 red cards say we're not a racist club? One (maybe two) people were racist for a short time at one match.
We're going ultra-defensive to defend something we're not really guilty of, whist FIFA/UEFA/the FA repeatedly ignore much worse racial issues with a slap on the wrist (carefully missing the gold-plated watch which may or may not have been a gift) or pathetic fines to those clubs that seem guilty of much worse on so many occasions...
I just assumed it was tongue-in-cheek, because most Rovers fans know we're not a 'racist club' and just wish we could move on from it.
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Post by Centenary Gas on Oct 16, 2014 11:42:59 GMT
A couple of thousand paper aeroplances should be interesting.
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Post by buckrippers on Oct 16, 2014 11:45:34 GMT
How does holding up 5000 red cards say we're not a racist club? One (maybe two) people were racist for a short time at one match. We're going ultra-defensive to defend something we're not really guilty of, whist FIFA/UEFA/the FA repeatedly ignore much worse racial issues with a slap on the wrist (carefully missing the gold-plated watch which may or may not have been a gift) or pathetic fines to those clubs that seem guilty of much worse on so many occasions... I just assumed it was tongue-in-cheek, because most Rovers fans know we're not a 'racist club' and just wish we could move on from it. I don't see you're saying anything I'm not in this article. Yes, we know we're not a racist club, but our reputation was sullied. Even programmes like BBC South East (our Points West) did a big item on this incident last week. Bringing Rovers' particular protest, however 'ultra-defensive' it may seem, to the attention of more people (including the FA and PFA) can hardly do any harm. The alternative was not to do anything. Social Media, however much we love or hate it, has the power to get a message across these days so why not use it for the good of the club and in doing so try to shame people in much loftier positions than ourselves... |
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Post by Big Dave on Oct 16, 2014 11:54:45 GMT
How does holding up 5000 red cards say we're not a racist club? One (maybe two) people were racist for a short time at one match. We're going ultra-defensive to defend something we're not really guilty of, whist FIFA/UEFA/the FA repeatedly ignore much worse racial issues with a slap on the wrist (carefully missing the gold-plated watch which may or may not have been a gift) or pathetic fines to those clubs that seem guilty of much worse on so many occasions... I just assumed it was tongue-in-cheek, because most Rovers fans know we're not a 'racist club' and just wish we could move on from it. I don't see you're saying anything I'm not in this article. Yes, we know we're not a racist club, but our reputation was sullied. Even programmes like BBC South East (our Points West) did a big item on this incident last week. Bringing Rovers' particular protest, however 'ultra-defensive' it may seem, to the attention of more people (including the FA and PFA) can hardly do any harm. The alternative was not to do anything. Social Media, however much we love or hate it, has the power to get a message across these days so why not use it for the good of the club and in doing so try to shame people in much loftier positions than ourselves... I liken it to actual politics. If it's a positive news-cycle, you want it to run 24-7 for as long as possible. If it's negative, you want it to go away. Someone at the club has thought its a good idea to buy 5000 red pieces of card, but this only drags it out. In the sunday papers (even if we win) I will bet the first line of any report is the 'red card campaign'. Social media will only report the bad things, its the nature of social media - as a journalist, surely you've realised controversy on Facebook/Twitter gets 10x the attention of good news? I would happily bet the assistant ref is more likely to be hit by a scrunched up 'red card' if he gets an offside decision wrong on Saturday, against FIFA or the FA caring in the slightest what our fans do just before kickoff. And I would then bet we're more like to get in trouble when he's hit by said scrunched up red card... |
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Post by buckrippers on Oct 16, 2014 12:20:26 GMT
I don't see you're saying anything I'm not in this article. Yes, we know we're not a racist club, but our reputation was sullied. Even programmes like BBC South East (our Points West) did a big item on this incident last week. Bringing Rovers' particular protest, however 'ultra-defensive' it may seem, to the attention of more people (including the FA and PFA) can hardly do any harm. The alternative was not to do anything. Social Media, however much we love or hate it, has the power to get a message across these days so why not use it for the good of the club and in doing so try to shame people in much loftier positions than ourselves... I liken it to actual politics. If it's a positive news-cycle, you want it to run 24-7 for as long as possible. If it's negative, you want it to go away. Someone at the club has thought its a good idea to buy 5000 red pieces of card, but this only drags it out. In the sunday papers (even if we win) I will bet the first line of any report is the 'red card campaign'. Social media will only report the bad things, its the nature of social media - as a journalist, surely you've realised controversy on Facebook/Twitter gets 10x the attention of good news? I would happily bet the assistant ref is more likely to be hit by a scrunched up 'red card' if he gets an offside decision wrong on Saturday, against FIFA or the FA caring in the slightest what our fans do just before kickoff. And I would then bet we're more like to get in trouble when he's hit by said scrunched up red card... Yeah, I know what you're saying, but if the FA dept investigating the incident sees Rovers taking positive action like this, is it not likely they will find it far more difficult to censure the club? Doing nothing almost implies they aren't that bothered |
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Post by Mark Ash on Oct 16, 2014 13:08:20 GMT
I think it's an excellent piece, Nick, and the tone of it puts Rovers in the vanguard of fighting racism, rather than being guilty of it. Whatever happened against Dartford, we were tarnished by association and this gives a strong picture of us putting everyone straight about our club.
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Post by Big Dave on Oct 16, 2014 14:40:15 GMT
I honestly think if we can afford the legal fees to attack Wycombe again we can defend against something that cannot possibly be prevented. Just to compare a few things: Wycombe broke the financial rules and got away with it. Fair play to them if it had been us doing the same thing I'd be ecstatic. There are many fans who's clubs are overtly racist: Zenit St Petersburg, Steaua Bucharest, Debrecen, Maribor...comparatively the sanctions UEFA have taken against them are i) a drop in the ocean compared to the revenue they made from that particular match, ii) a drop in the ocean compared to the revenue they make from any matches affected by any sanctions, and therefore iii) would have much more impact if the governing bodies actually cared about racism. Our fans as a whole are massively non-racist and (as far as I know) reaffirmed this during this incident. I hope the FA body investigating this incident sees Rovers taking action, but like FIFA, UEFA and the FA themselves, I hope they see they are focussing too much on the small problems and far too little on the bigger issues... |
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Post by gasincider on Oct 16, 2014 14:50:02 GMT
Sorry if i've missed something here, but have we been found guilty of anything yet? I'd happily join the protest if there was any evidence this actually happened, but not seen anything to contradict what one of our stewards told me at Aldershot. Namely the stewards followed the protocol to the letter, and neither the steward or anyone else had heard anything racist.
If it has to be guilt by association, should we apologise for the bombing of Dresden? My Uncle was a bomber boy in the second world war. The difference is we know the bombing happened.
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Post by buckrippers on Oct 16, 2014 15:29:27 GMT
Sorry if i've missed something here, but have we been found guilty of anything yet? I'd happily join the protest if there was any evidence this actually happened, but not seen anything to contradict what one of our stewards told me at Aldershot. Namely the stewards followed the protocol to the letter, and neither the steward or anyone else had heard anything racist. If it has to be guilt by association, should we apologise for the bombing of Dresden? My Uncle was a bomber boy in the second world war. The difference is we know the bombing happened. Regardless of whether we have been found guilty of anything, does that make it wrong that we stage a visible protest against racism? I hardly see how it equates to war (all is fair etc etc). If it was a war it was pretty one sided for hundreds of years. |
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Post by Big Dave on Oct 16, 2014 16:10:54 GMT
Sorry if i've missed something here, but have we been found guilty of anything yet? I'd happily join the protest if there was any evidence this actually happened, but not seen anything to contradict what one of our stewards told me at Aldershot. Namely the stewards followed the protocol to the letter, and neither the steward or anyone else had heard anything racist. If it has to be guilt by association, should we apologise for the bombing of Dresden? My Uncle was a bomber boy in the second world war. The difference is we know the bombing happened. Regardless of whether we have been found guilty of anything, does that make it wrong that we stage a visible protest against racism? I hardly see how it equates to war (all is fair etc etc). If it was a war it was pretty one sided for hundreds of years. I think the incident probably happened, but has not yet been proved to have happened. And even when it is, it was an isolated incident in a crowd of 5000. I think the club is massively over-reacting and is doing to to try and calm down the FA on one front whilst massively annoying them on another one. I wish we had someone in PR who could advise when and how to make issues go away... |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2014 17:41:41 GMT
What's this, the much derided anti-racism action getting us GOOD publicity.  |
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Post by Mark Ash on Oct 16, 2014 18:19:25 GMT
I can't see the down side. We're making a demonstration against racism and getting publicity for it.
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Post by mehewmagic on Oct 16, 2014 19:29:40 GMT
I can't see the down side. We're making a demonstration against racism and getting publicity for it. you'll never make a good spin doctor  |
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Post by mehewmagic on Oct 16, 2014 19:32:20 GMT
Regardless of whether we have been found guilty of anything, does that make it wrong that we stage a visible protest against racism? I hardly see how it equates to war (all is fair etc etc). If it was a war it was pretty one sided for hundreds of years. I think the incident probably happened, but has not yet been proved to have happened. And even when it is, it was an isolated incident in a crowd of 5000. I think the club is massively over-reacting and is doing to to try and calm down the FA on one front whilst massively annoying them on another one. I wish we had someone in PR who could advise when and how to make issues go away... you sound like NH at the fan's G&A (by the by what happened to them??) when he said they needed a PR expert and BSS was sitting 4 metres away from him.  |
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Post by gasincider on Oct 16, 2014 23:23:47 GMT
Buckrippers. It's not wrong to do the protest against racism, but you know and I know that the red card protest would not be happening if it wasn't for the Dartford incident.
So it's disingenuous to suggest otherwise. I am staggered that there has been no update issued as to what the current position us. Has anyone come forward or not with regard to what was said?
The answer I'm afraid is that they probably haven't, and on that basis we are doing the red card stance to protect ourselves from a charge that has no legitimacy at present. It's one thing to do the protest which is fair enough, but it should not be done on an unproven premise.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2014 23:40:03 GMT
Buckrippers. It's not wrong to do the protest against racism, but you know and I know that the red card protest would not be happening if it wasn't for the Dartford incident. So it's disingenuous to suggest otherwise. I am staggered that there has been no update issued as to what the current position us. Has anyone come forward or not with regard to what was said? The answer I'm afraid is that they probably haven't, and on that basis we are doing the red card stance to protect ourselves from a charge that has no legitimacy at present. It's one thing to do the protest which is fair enough, but it should not be done on an unproven premise. To clarify: you are saying that Jason Brown is lying about being racially abused? |
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Post by Mark Ash on Oct 17, 2014 6:42:16 GMT
I can't see the down side. We're making a demonstration against racism and getting publicity for it. you'll never make a good spin doctor I'll take that as a compliment. The very phrase makes me think of Alistair Campbell.  |
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