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Post by Henbury Gas on Jul 3, 2019 12:54:29 GMT
Now then gentlemen, you can discuss the pro's & cons of the different gender and what they can do with a football, but you are losing the plot when it comes to the main purpose of Football........ Entertainment and that was entertainment of the highest order.
Sometimes we forget that when we are watching the great game
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Post by Gassy on Jul 3, 2019 12:56:38 GMT
At the mem sure, But I can’t remember seeing it at elite World Cup semi final level in Russia... One minute you're saying it's like Sunday League football, the next you are comparing it to a Men's World Cup semi-final. Make your mind up.
No-one is expecting it to be have the consistant quality of elite Men's football. How could it? Loads more boys play football than girls, so you've got a much larger pool of telent to choose from. Then, when the most talented boys are discovered, they are given tehe best coaching with all the resources in the world, and then are fully professional throughout their career. The women just don't have that yet - the closest it gets to that is in the USA, and it shows.
Standards are improving, but without the same resources (financial and in terms of people) and opportunities as Men's football, any direct comparison is unfair. So, how about we just support our fellow countrywomen, appreciate the clear improvement that I can see every year, but above all just enjoy the games. Last night's game was a cracker by any standard.
Absolutely bang on.
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Post by newmarketgas on Jul 3, 2019 13:15:54 GMT
The racing industry is about as fair as you get, work riders male and female same pay, stable staff male and female same pay, jockeys male and female same pay and it goes on all the way through, the only ones who earn more are those that win more, all sport should be the same, look at tennis, they all earn the same but the males play more sets ! If everything is going to be fair then everyone should be in the same contest. I really can't see why football is any different, let the females play with the males at all ages, the best will come to the top and I am sure a good few females would be playing at least at lower league standards and will go all the way in time.
Thinking about it, look at nearly all horse sports, show jumping, eventing all males and females compete together, equality must be equal in all things, it will take time but so does baking a cake ! One for the females ( joke ).
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2019 13:22:09 GMT
So you can't expect a woman in a world cup semi final to hit a corner so it doesn't go straight out? Okay. Personally I find it patronising in the extreme to women to say "you can't compare it!". Like they should be content with their world cup semi final being a car crash of poor skills simply because they are women. You shouldn't compare general athleticism, fair enough, as men and women are different in that respect. But it's a corner ffs! Surely you can expect someone at the pinnacle of the game of either gender to take an effing corner! And as for Karius, stopping those shots was still more difficult than making sure a corner stays in play - but that being said Karius's career at the top level is finished based on that game alone. Some of those women with the poor skills in that semi-final will conversely probably get pay raises. You can expect them to hit a corner, I never said otherwise so please don't put words in my mouth, however you can't then say "They don’t help themselves in promoting the quality of women’s football sometimes" You find it patronising to say you can't compare it? Is it so hard for you, as a man, to see and enjoy women football doing well & gaining credibility that you feel the need compare it to a mens game which is obviously more competitive? The women game is the women game, it has NOTHING to do with the mens, so stop comparing it. It is inspiring more young girls all over the world to get involved in football which is predominantly a mens game, although there is no reason to be. How long ago was it, early 90's that women weren't allowed to play football?? Do you still feel patronised over this, you poor thing - it must be difficult for you.. How many times do Rovers miss kick a corner? How many times did Leadbitter hit it straight out for a goal kick? How many times did Bonham kick it out for a throw in? Which is easier than a corner by the way. But again, I didn't see you saying Bonham being "being a car crash of poor skills". You're happy to compare the mens vs women game, but do you say the same about tennis? You pick an incident like every corner never made it into the box. Why haven't you said about how good the crossing was? The header for USA's first goal was excellent. Morgan's run into the box for the 2nd was world class. Ellen White's finishing was world class on the volley. Her 2nd offside goal was also an excellent run & move. Instead, you pick something negative to run the women game down. You sir, are being sexist. Oh look, here's a poor corner at a World Cup in the mens: Oh look here is Wayne Rooney taking a corner for England in the Euros Vs Iceland With respect you seem to be fond of playing the sexist card all the time and it doesn't do you any credit. But that being said if being critical of the basic skill level at the top level in women's football is all it takes to make me a sexist then I will hold my hand up to that. Being called sexist doesn't bother me especially with the way the current snowflake generation use identity politics to try and win arguments I will add that yes, the Americans are actually a good advert for the sport- I won't deny that. England aren't and don't belong at semi-final level because their basic skills are not good enough. It was women vs girls in all bar the scoreline.
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Post by chewbacca on Jul 3, 2019 13:26:31 GMT
The racing industry is about as fair as you get, work riders male and female same pay, stable staff male and female same pay, jockeys male and female same pay and it goes on all the way through, the only ones who earn more are those that win more, all sport should be the same, look at tennis, they all earn the same but the males play more sets ! If everything is going to be fair then everyone should be in the same contest. I really can't see why football is any different, let the females play with the males at all ages, the best will come to the top and I am sure a good few females would be playing at least at lower league standards and will go all the way in time. Thinking about it, look at nearly all horse sports, show jumping, eventing all males and females compete together, equality must be equal in all things, it will take time but so does baking a cake ! One for the females ( joke ). and any players that break their legs get shot in the head.
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Post by Gassy on Jul 3, 2019 13:30:16 GMT
You can expect them to hit a corner, I never said otherwise so please don't put words in my mouth, however you can't then say "They don’t help themselves in promoting the quality of women’s football sometimes" You find it patronising to say you can't compare it? Is it so hard for you, as a man, to see and enjoy women football doing well & gaining credibility that you feel the need compare it to a mens game which is obviously more competitive? The women game is the women game, it has NOTHING to do with the mens, so stop comparing it. It is inspiring more young girls all over the world to get involved in football which is predominantly a mens game, although there is no reason to be. How long ago was it, early 90's that women weren't allowed to play football?? Do you still feel patronised over this, you poor thing - it must be difficult for you.. How many times do Rovers miss kick a corner? How many times did Leadbitter hit it straight out for a goal kick? How many times did Bonham kick it out for a throw in? Which is easier than a corner by the way. But again, I didn't see you saying Bonham being "being a car crash of poor skills". You're happy to compare the mens vs women game, but do you say the same about tennis? You pick an incident like every corner never made it into the box. Why haven't you said about how good the crossing was? The header for USA's first goal was excellent. Morgan's run into the box for the 2nd was world class. Ellen White's finishing was world class on the volley. Her 2nd offside goal was also an excellent run & move. Instead, you pick something negative to run the women game down. You sir, are being sexist. Oh look, here's a poor corner at a World Cup in the mens: Oh look here is Wayne Rooney taking a corner for England in the Euros Vs Iceland With respect you seem to be fond of playing the sexist card all the time and it doesn't do you any credit. But that being said if being critical of the basic skill level at the top level in women's football is all it takes to make me a sexist then I will hold my hand up to that. Being called sexist doesn't bother me especially with the way the current snowflake generation use identity politics to try and win arguments I will add that yes, the Americans are actually a good advert for the sport- I won't deny that. England aren't and don't belong at semi-final level because their basic skills are not good enough. It was women vs girls in all bar the scoreline. All the time? Where else have I said it out of this thread? It comes across worse being sexist, trust me. England deserved to be semi final, because they're one of the best women teams in the world. They're the the top 4, so completely deserved to be there. It has nothing to do with skill, if they're the best 4 then they belong there. You can be critical of the skill level, no problem. I have been critical about it last night. However, you can't then use that by saying 'they don't do themselves any favours for promoting the women game' and on top of that, then comparing it to men and saying they're superior. It's 2 different things. That face you can't realise that says a lot tbh.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2019 13:57:01 GMT
With respect you seem to be fond of playing the sexist card all the time and it doesn't do you any credit. But that being said if being critical of the basic skill level at the top level in women's football is all it takes to make me a sexist then I will hold my hand up to that. Being called sexist doesn't bother me especially with the way the current snowflake generation use identity politics to try and win arguments I will add that yes, the Americans are actually a good advert for the sport- I won't deny that. England aren't and don't belong at semi-final level because their basic skills are not good enough. It was women vs girls in all bar the scoreline. All the time? Where else have I said it out of this thread? It comes across worse being sexist, trust me. England deserved to be semi final, because they're one of the best women teams in the world. They're the the top 4, so completely deserved to be there. It has nothing to do with skill, if they're the best 4 then they belong there. You can be critical of the skill level, no problem. I have been critical about it last night. However, you can't then use that by saying 'they don't do themselves any favours for promoting the women game' and on top of that, then comparing it to men and saying they're superior. It's 2 different things. That face you can't realise that says a lot tbh. Well you accused Meadgas of being sexist also, like it's a well used tool in your arsenal which is exactly why I don't care about being called sexist. In this current age of SJW's, identity politics and people who claim to be 'so woke maaan' ( ) the word has long lost it's meaning- my cat is sexist according to the current flaky definition! I'm not really trying to compare it to men, just saying that I would expect both men and women at the world cup semi final stage (and that's the key bit) not to trip over their legs or keep a corner in play. It's the pinnacle of the game so the basic physical skills should be on point and shouldn't be too much to ask, right? There were some good bits that I have seen (and I mean overall, I was impressed with an over head kick earlier in the tournament - dunno who that was by) but last night in the semi-final you could make a blooper reel of all the basic errors and for me, for a world cup semi final, it suggests that women's football still has not reached a great standard, well the Americans have, but everyone else is light years behind as evidenced by the fact that the Americans have lost what, 1 game in 46? Also if people do have a problem with comparisons then you should probably not be having a go at me and taking it up with a far more influential body like the BBC who have been trying to make an art form out of telling us when a woman has made a record that has surpassed a record in men's football. That is a far more dangerous form of comparison than anything you will find on this forum. Let's not forget that if England win the bronze medal they will officially have beaten the men's performance in the Russia World cup- do you think the BBC will hold back on telling us that comparison?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2019 14:03:07 GMT
The offside law was supposed to stop what ,as kids,we called goal hangers ,not deal in 'micro' fractions as in this world cup,answer is simple ,daylight twixt last defender and scorer,if this law was enforced in the past then the likes of Greaves,Linekear, Muller ,all masters of there trade,timing there runs, would have half there goals chalked off!as for the penalty ,the fact they looked at it over and over again must leave doubt in the mind there fore no pen IMO. VAR had to be trialed and hopefully the powers that be will have learn't from the experience, as i am sure we have, and sit down and make the necessary changes to the laws and the use of VAR so that its use does not completely ruin the spectacle that is our passion. The problem is that VAR has already been trialed. It was used in the last Men's World Cup. It was used in both the German and Italian leagues last season. FIFA have had plenty of opportunities to get things right, and VAR is still a dog's dinner!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2019 14:05:13 GMT
You can't compare the 2 games, and tbh it's getting annoying when people keep comparing the 2. Do we do the same in Tennis, gymnastics or athletics? I saw many f*ck ups at the Russia World Cup - I also saw more diving and pathetic arguing at Russia in 1 game than I have in the entire women tournament FWIW. I don't remember seeing you post in the CL final with Karius' 2 cocks ups saying "they really aren't aren't helping the mens game are they". Why don't you post it about Rovers too, saying how "we're not doing the mens game good" or "we're not doing the league standards any good" So you can't expect a woman in a world cup semi final to hit a corner so it doesn't go straight out? Okay.Personally I find it patronising in the extreme to women to say "you can't compare it!". Like they should be content with their world cup semi final being a car crash of poor skills simply because they are women. You shouldn't compare general athleticism, fair enough, as men and women are different in that respect. But it's a corner ffs! Surely you can expect someone at the pinnacle of the game of either gender to take an effing corner! And as for Karius, stopping those shots was still more difficult than making sure a corner stays in play - but that being said Karius's career at the top level is finished based on that game alone. Some of those women with the poor skills in that semi-final will conversely probably get pay raises. It also happens in the top levels of Men's football. Often, the ball curls out then back into play, and a goal kick is awarded. Seen it loads of times.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2019 14:15:36 GMT
So you can't expect a woman in a world cup semi final to hit a corner so it doesn't go straight out? Okay.Personally I find it patronising in the extreme to women to say "you can't compare it!". Like they should be content with their world cup semi final being a car crash of poor skills simply because they are women. You shouldn't compare general athleticism, fair enough, as men and women are different in that respect. But it's a corner ffs! Surely you can expect someone at the pinnacle of the game of either gender to take an effing corner! And as for Karius, stopping those shots was still more difficult than making sure a corner stays in play - but that being said Karius's career at the top level is finished based on that game alone. Some of those women with the poor skills in that semi-final will conversely probably get pay raises. It also happens in the top levels of Men's football. Often, the ball curls out then back into play, and a goal kick is awarded. Seen it loads of times. Fair point- and I wouldn;t bring it up if it was like that. The reason I mentioned it was because it didn't curl back into play it went straight behind the goal! Suggesting that her angle was all wrong in the first place to arrow it straight past the side netting! Looking back on it, against a team like America you aren't going to get many opportunities so to waste a corner on something like that makes me just shake my head.
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Post by Gassy on Jul 3, 2019 14:16:51 GMT
All the time? Where else have I said it out of this thread? It comes across worse being sexist, trust me. England deserved to be semi final, because they're one of the best women teams in the world. They're the the top 4, so completely deserved to be there. It has nothing to do with skill, if they're the best 4 then they belong there. You can be critical of the skill level, no problem. I have been critical about it last night. However, you can't then use that by saying 'they don't do themselves any favours for promoting the women game' and on top of that, then comparing it to men and saying they're superior. It's 2 different things. That face you can't realise that says a lot tbh. Well you accused Meadgas of being sexist also, like it's a well used tool in your arsenal which is exactly why I don't care about being called sexist. In this current age of SJW's, identity politics and people who claim to be 'so woke maaan' ( ) the word has long lost it's meaning- my cat is sexist according to the current flaky definition! I'm not really trying to compare it to men, just saying that I would expect both men and women at the world cup semi final stage (and that's the key bit) not to trip over their legs or keep a corner in play. It's the pinnacle of the game so the basic physical skills should be on point and shouldn't be too much to ask, right? There were some good bits that I have seen (and I mean overall, I was impressed with an over head kick earlier in the tournament - dunno who that was by) but last night in the semi-final you could make a blooper reel of all the basic errors and for me, for a world cup semi final, it suggests that women's football still has not reached a great standard, well the Americans have, but everyone else is light years behind as evidenced by the fact that the Americans have lost what, 1 game in 46? Also if people do have a problem with comparisons then you should probably not be having a go at me and taking it up with a far more influential body like the BBC who have been trying to make an art form out of telling us when a woman has made a record that has surpassed a record in men's football. That is a far more dangerous form of comparison than anything you will find on this forum. Let's not forget that if England win the bronze medal they will officially have beaten the men's performance in the Russia World cup- do you think the BBC will hold back on telling us that comparison? Some fairer points in this post. My problem (again) was with your point about them not doing themselves favours for promoting the women game. They don't actually need to prove anything to anyone. As 2 posts at the top of this page says, its about the entertainment & enjoyment of football. We all know the women's game isn't as good as the mens, that's why a comparison is also stupid & pointless. If people want to slate the skill level or the game play, no problem But again, don't then bring up the men's game right after - that's what annoys me. You moan about standard of corners, yet I gave you a WC & Euros example of even worse - but you've failed to really comment on that. We have to expect them to be of a high quality, but in their own game. Did you watch the Norway game? I didn't see people moaning about a bad corner then. It's because we came across a much better team & the part that's annoying is that last night it will have been a lot of peoples first women game & they'll now just assume this for all women's football. I work from home (or hardly at all today lol) and I listen to 5Live pretty much all day - what record have BBC said surpassed in comparisons to mens? I agree, that is dangerous, but I haven't heard it. If BBC were to make the comparison with 3rd, I would also slate it as you can't have it both ways. But it's one thing to say "it's been a good year for English football, 3rd for women and 4th for men" and another to say "the women got further than the men, therefore they're better & we should compare".
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Post by Gassy on Jul 3, 2019 14:18:06 GMT
It also happens in the top levels of Men's football. Often, the ball curls out then back into play, and a goal kick is awarded. Seen it loads of times. Fair point- and I wouldn;t bring it up if it was like that. The reason I mentioned it was because it didn't curl back into play it went straight behind the goal! Suggesting that her angle was all wrong in the first place to arrow it straight past the side netting! Looking back on it, against a team like America you aren't going to get many opportunities so to waste a corner on something like that makes me just shake my head. See my video of Rooney, a man on 300,000 a week at Utd at the time, hit it right out (no curl) whilst 2-1 down in the finals...
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Post by tomylil on Jul 3, 2019 15:17:11 GMT
These "stars" will be back to playing in front of 1,500 every week despite the hype from the BBC
Hope everyone who enjoyed this spectacle will watch it week in week out bearing in mind the players are so brilliant
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2019 15:18:26 GMT
It also happens in the top levels of Men's football. Often, the ball curls out then back into play, and a goal kick is awarded. Seen it loads of times. Fair point- and I wouldn;t bring it up if it was like that. The reason I mentioned it was because it didn't curl back into play it went straight behind the goal! Suggesting that her angle was all wrong in the first place to arrow it straight past the side netting! Looking back on it, against a team like America you aren't going to get many opportunities so to waste a corner on something like that makes me just shake my head. It happens though, at all levels. How many times do we see top class Male players hit the first defender with corners and free kicks ?
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Post by aghast on Jul 3, 2019 16:49:53 GMT
I don't know what the arguments are about on here.
Of course the women's game isn't up to the standard of the men's.
So what?
If that criterion mattered so much, there'd be no-one at the Mem. They'd all be watching Man City or, even worse, at Trashton.
I think the standard is pretty good in general. The games are entertaining, and the attitude of the players is like a breath of fresh air compared to the cynical male superstars we have to suffer nowadays.
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Post by rememberhalifax on Jul 3, 2019 17:18:28 GMT
Anyway never mind England are in yet another world cup semi-final, will it end in another glorious failure,shame the masses can't watch it!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2019 17:57:10 GMT
Well you accused Meadgas of being sexist also, like it's a well used tool in your arsenal which is exactly why I don't care about being called sexist. In this current age of SJW's, identity politics and people who claim to be 'so woke maaan' ( ) the word has long lost it's meaning- my cat is sexist according to the current flaky definition! I'm not really trying to compare it to men, just saying that I would expect both men and women at the world cup semi final stage (and that's the key bit) not to trip over their legs or keep a corner in play. It's the pinnacle of the game so the basic physical skills should be on point and shouldn't be too much to ask, right? There were some good bits that I have seen (and I mean overall, I was impressed with an over head kick earlier in the tournament - dunno who that was by) but last night in the semi-final you could make a blooper reel of all the basic errors and for me, for a world cup semi final, it suggests that women's football still has not reached a great standard, well the Americans have, but everyone else is light years behind as evidenced by the fact that the Americans have lost what, 1 game in 46? Also if people do have a problem with comparisons then you should probably not be having a go at me and taking it up with a far more influential body like the BBC who have been trying to make an art form out of telling us when a woman has made a record that has surpassed a record in men's football. That is a far more dangerous form of comparison than anything you will find on this forum. Let's not forget that if England win the bronze medal they will officially have beaten the men's performance in the Russia World cup- do you think the BBC will hold back on telling us that comparison? Some fairer points in this post. My problem (again) was with your point about them not doing themselves favours for promoting the women game. They don't actually need to prove anything to anyone. As 2 posts at the top of this page says, its about the entertainment & enjoyment of football. We all know the women's game isn't as good as the mens, that's why a comparison is also stupid & pointless. If people want to slate the skill level or the game play, no problem But again, don't then bring up the men's game right after - that's what annoys me. You moan about standard of corners, yet I gave you a WC & Euros example of even worse - but you've failed to really comment on that. We have to expect them to be of a high quality, but in their own game. Did you watch the Norway game? I didn't see people moaning about a bad corner then. It's because we came across a much better team & the part that's annoying is that last night it will have been a lot of peoples first women game & they'll now just assume this for all women's football. I work from home (or hardly at all today lol) and I listen to 5Live pretty much all day - what record have BBC said surpassed in comparisons to mens? I agree, that is dangerous, but I haven't heard it. If BBC were to make the comparison with 3rd, I would also slate it as you can't have it both ways. But it's one thing to say "it's been a good year for English football, 3rd for women and 4th for men" and another to say "the women got further than the men, therefore they're better & we should compare". I hope the phraseology was explained by my previous post - it's not a good advert if basic skills are lacking in what should be a showpiece occasion, and by contrast yeah you did bring up some relevant examples from the men's game but I'm specifically referring to the semis and final of a world cup as the world cup is basically the crown jewel of the football calendar. I would be just as pointed if I saw Hazard shank a corner in the same manner against France in Russia, I certainly have no desire to run down women's football whilst trying to make a sacred cow out of men's football, far from it in fact. I simply expect the same from both sides of the fence - that they should be able to do the basics at that level. And again if it was one shanked corner then it probably wouldn't be worth mentioning, I'm talking about at least 4 incidents from 4 different players that I can point to last night, in a world cup semi-final, that demonstrated appalling levels of ability. Taken as a whole that does not reflect well on the standard of football if such teams can get 2 games away from being the best team in the world. I thought I was being kind in fact as I left out the penalty as that was pretty woeful! With regards to comparisons off the top of my head stuff like international appearance records - okay, slightly trivial example but even then the demands and participation levels are different so to say someone is 'football's leading cap holder' or whatever is still disingenuous. Also I noticed that the media painstakingly referred to "The first quadruple *in the men's game*" when referring to Man City's attempt to win every trophy this season, again it shouldn't need to be defined that way, it should be implicit. Each footballing code has it's own set of records and it wouldn't be fair to start saying "The first quadruple champions in world football!" etc. But that is just symptomatic of the attempts to try and make women's football more exciting I guess - I understand they do it to inspire girls but I doubt we will see commentators tell us if a man smashes a woman's record (and I wouldn't want them to). On another note and re:comparisons - I notice that there have been calls for the England team to be honoured for reaching the semi-finals like the men's England team were last year. Again, a total mis-match in terms of comparisons as competition is so much fiercer in men's football if only due to participation numbers. Quite aside from all that you should get nowt for being a semi-finalist, it means nothing in men's or women's football. Wales men's football team got sod all for being the first British team since England in '96 to reach a major international footballing semi-finals (quite right too) so I don't see why they are throwing honours at England's men's team and now want to throw honours at the women's team for glorious failure. Probably says everything about the sporting culture in Britain when there is a clamour for failure to be recognised.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2019 18:03:07 GMT
Anyway never mind England are in yet another world cup semi-final, will it end in another glorious failure,shame the masses can't watch it! Corbyn's Britain
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Post by Big Jock on Jul 3, 2019 18:52:59 GMT
Seein as its seems th day for rumours on here, i've heard that Hope Solo burd is a dirty wee scuttler.
ITK
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2019 18:56:24 GMT
Seein as its seems th day for rumours on here, i've heard that Hope Solo burd is a dirty wee scuttler.
ITK
She is in my mind.
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