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Post by Topper Gas on May 31, 2019 19:44:53 GMT
Any excuse to have a go at DC again... If you felt his tactical acumen was poor or that results weren't good enough, etc, then fair enough...blame the manager. But to blame a football manager for the fact that we are this much in debt is ridiculous. The budget is determined by the owners. How it is spent is down to the manager and to an extent dictates how he is viewed as it has an impact on results. Eventually, DC couldn't keep replacing strikers with the required level of quality..that's why he was sacked. But the point is that he can only spend the finite amount that the owners gave him. The owners are 100% accountable for any allocation of budget. It's not like they gave DC 500k and he spent 600k. The manager, any manager, can only spend what the budget allows him to. If it's not enough he either wheel and deals (as he did for years) or walks. That said, Chewbacca is also right in that the root cause here is the failure of every single board since we returned to Bristol in 1996 to actually invest in this tip of a ground. However, what matters now is the situation we are in. It would seem that we are too much in debt to attract investment (£17.5m for a middling 3rd tier club), yet stuck with owners who have shown no sign of being able to do a Lansdown (not that they necessarily should have to, but then don't put us in this mess in the first place). Forget any dreams of play offs and Championship football. I'm grateful I still have a club to watch, but genuinely fear how long that may be for. And I was most definitely what some call a rose tinter. Then again who was on the radio most weeks whinging about wanting a better budget, even when we was about to be fired he was complaining the budget was going to be cut this summer. DC was given too much control by the Board and you sensed the tail started to wag the dog, not helped by DC bringing in over paid journey man like Payne & Bennett. What's the logic in him outbidding us for JC, he managing Walsall not Pompey in Div 2!
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2019 19:53:05 GMT
With all this financial doom and gloom i cant help but think back to what should have been our darkest hours ,the Twerton years, but turned out to be anything but that. ON gates half of what we get now we managed to pay over 400,000 for Tilson ,as well as twixt 200 and 300 thou for the likes of Roberts,Lambo,Cureton,Ellington,Foster,on return to Bristol, had great success, in fact, prob one of our best ever seasons when at Twerton. How did we do it? Well we sold the likes of Stewart,Taylor(Gareth!)Martyn,Ellington,Bazza,Roberts,for fees twixt 1.8 and 3 million!as well as the likes of Browning,Yates,Penrice,for well over 1/2 million! Move on to present days and we have to give away the club captain, sell a top scorer for peanuts,and allow others to leave for a steal,seem to have lost the ability to 'discover' talent in lower leagues(OLLY BRILLIANT AT THAT!)and as for paying 400 thou plus for some one ,no way !so the answer? back to Trumpton , sell the Mem, and resurrect rag bag Rovers!!and we ALL pull together!! Were most of those big sales before Bosman? The Lockyer situation wouldn't have happened many years ago - a tribunal would have had to set a transfer fee if one couldn't be agreed. Pretty poor that clubs could hold onto a players registration and effectively keep them hostage.
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2019 19:55:44 GMT
I agree, I was commenting to Kyle that pointing fingers at DC is a joke. The blame lies with the people who run the club, no one else. re read what I said I said dc also had some blame in this and listed reasons why poor control over the wages bringing in staff that he didn’t need ect the board can’t just say no to a manager as that would totally undermine the manager and his position. 200k for Jonny burn btw a player we released after a year . £200k for Burn? Where on earth did you get that from?
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Post by wertongas on May 31, 2019 20:01:27 GMT
With all this financial doom and gloom i cant help but think back to what should have been our darkest hours ,the Twerton years, but turned out to be anything but that. ON gates half of what we get now we managed to pay over 400,000 for Tilson ,as well as twixt 200 and 300 thou for the likes of Roberts,Lambo,Cureton,Ellington,Foster,on return to Bristol, had great success, in fact, prob one of our best ever seasons when at Twerton. How did we do it? Well we sold the likes of Stewart,Taylor(Gareth!)Martyn,Ellington,Bazza,Roberts,for fees twixt 1.8 and 3 million!as well as the likes of Browning,Yates,Penrice,for well over 1/2 million! Move on to present days and we have to give away the club captain, sell a top scorer for peanuts,and allow others to leave for a steal,seem to have lost the ability to 'discover' talent in lower leagues(OLLY BRILLIANT AT THAT!)and as for paying 400 thou plus for some one ,no way !so the answer? back to Trumpton , sell the Mem, and resurrect rag bag Rovers!!and we ALL pull together!! Had a good business men running the club then and brilliant manager, best since I have been watching the club. Gerry Francis of course.
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2019 20:19:32 GMT
In fact, looking at these accounts year by year, I'd say we cannot sustain 3rd tier football. If Accrington and Blackpool (two clubs run on an absolute shoe string) then most should be able to. Of course we need to see how long those two can stay in league one, it’s only been one season. But surely, the players are out there in non league. I refuse to concede that If we had a scouting network that was up to snuff we couldn’t pick up enough cheap bargains to help us tread water at this level without bankrupting ourselves. The problem is scouting at this club is shambolic and of all the wastrels we have acquired on our bloated admin budget assembling a quality scouting network should have been the number one priority, instead it was given the least consideration, behind hiring a media assistant in terms of importance. Brian Dutton and his overseas imports and Widdrington operating off of Coventry city’s page in last season’s League one Panini sticker album. Not good enough, by a long bloody shot. If you can’t sign quality lower league players on the cheap then yes you are going to have to buy jaded journeymen like Payne at big cost. No wonder league one football seems unsustainable to the team with the 6th highest average home attendance
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Post by Gas-Ed on May 31, 2019 20:32:28 GMT
One thing’s for sure, if a half decent offer comes in for JCH, he’ll be sold.
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Post by Icegas on May 31, 2019 20:35:26 GMT
With all this financial doom and gloom i cant help but think back to what should have been our darkest hours ,the Twerton years, but turned out to be anything but that. ON gates half of what we get now we managed to pay over 400,000 for Tilson ,as well as twixt 200 and 300 thou for the likes of Roberts,Lambo,Cureton,Ellington,Foster,on return to Bristol, had great success, in fact, prob one of our best ever seasons when at Twerton. How did we do it? Well we sold the likes of Stewart,Taylor(Gareth!)Martyn,Ellington,Bazza,Roberts,for fees twixt 1.8 and 3 million!as well as the likes of Browning,Yates,Penrice,for well over 1/2 million! Move on to present days and we have to give away the club captain, sell a top scorer for peanuts,and allow others to leave for a steal,seem to have lost the ability to 'discover' talent in lower leagues(OLLY BRILLIANT AT THAT!)and as for paying 400 thou plus for some one ,no way !so the answer? back to Trumpton , sell the Mem, and resurrect rag bag Rovers!!and we ALL pull together!! You point it valid but most of those players were brought and then sold while we have been at the mem.
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2019 20:48:06 GMT
Any excuse to have a go at DC again... If you felt his tactical acumen was poor or that results weren't good enough, etc, then fair enough...blame the manager. But to blame a football manager for the fact that we are this much in debt is ridiculous. The budget is determined by the owners. How it is spent is down to the manager and to an extent dictates how he is viewed as it has an impact on results. Eventually, DC couldn't keep replacing strikers with the required level of quality..that's why he was sacked. But the point is that he can only spend the finite amount that the owners gave him. The owners are 100% accountable for any allocation of budget. It's not like they gave DC 500k and he spent 600k. The manager, any manager, can only spend what the budget allows him to. If it's not enough he either wheel and deals (as he did for years) or walks. That said, Chewbacca is also right in that the root cause here is the failure of every single board since we returned to Bristol in 1996 to actually invest in this tip of a ground. However, what matters now is the situation we are in. It would seem that we are too much in debt to attract investment (£17.5m for a middling 3rd tier club), yet stuck with owners who have shown no sign of being able to do a Lansdown (not that they necessarily should have to, but then don't put us in this mess in the first place). Forget any dreams of play offs and Championship football. I'm grateful I still have a club to watch, but genuinely fear how long that may be for. And I was most definitely what some call a rose tinter. Then again who was on the radio most weeks whinging about wanting a better budget, even when we was about to be fired he was complaining the budget was going to be cut this summer. DC was given too much control by the Board and you sensed the tail started to wag the dog, not helped by DC bringing in over paid journey man like Payne & Bennett. What's the logic in him outbidding us for JC, he managing Walsall not Pompey in Div 2! So was he given too much control by the board, or was he whinging because he wasn't being given more money? It can't be both. The point remains anyway, allocation of budgets are down to the owners. How do we know Walsall have outbid us? They may have done, I don't know, but either way his budget will still be a finite amount set by his bosses, not by him. Of course, it could be that James Clarke is looking at where we are as a club, struggling financially and probably a realistic bet for relegation, and compared that with the option of working for a proven manager who has brought him success before. I hope this doesn't happen, but it's hardly unrealistic to suggest that in twelve months, James Clarke may be in a higher division than Bristol Rovers.
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2019 20:48:58 GMT
One thing’s for sure, if a half decent offer comes in for JCH, he’ll be sold. Looking at these accounts, he should be.
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2019 20:59:17 GMT
In fact, looking at these accounts year by year, I'd say we cannot sustain 3rd tier football. If Accrington and Blackpool (two clubs run on an absolute shoe string) then most should be able to. Of course we need to see how long those two can stay in league one, it’s only been one season. But surely, the players are out there in non league. I refuse to concede that If we had a scouting network that was up to snuff we couldn’t pick up enough cheap bargains to help us tread water at this level without bankrupting ourselves. The problem is scouting at this club is shambolic and of all the wastrels we have acquired on our bloated admin budget assembling a quality scouting network should have been the number one priority, instead it was given the least consideration, behind hiring a media assistant in terms of importance. Brian Dutton and his overseas imports and Widdrington operating off of Coventry city’s page in last season’s League one Panini sticker album. Not good enough, by a long bloody shot. If you can’t sign quality lower league players on the cheap then yes you are going to have to buy jaded journeymen like Payne at big cost. No wonder league one football seems unsustainable to the team with the 6th highest average home attendance Fair comment. I guess I meant based on our losses while in this league. We can't sustain that so maybe have to drop to a level we can sustain. Absolutely agree with your points though.
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Post by neilv93 on May 31, 2019 21:16:18 GMT
Good spot, my mistake. Edited the original. No probs. Got any odd jobs you want doing? A couple of hours work at your rates would buy me and the wife a lovely cruise! If you dress up as Will Smith then Wael will pay £10k a day to have a signed shirt photographed with you
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Post by Topper Gas on May 31, 2019 21:44:15 GMT
One thing’s for sure, if a half decent offer comes in for JCH, he’ll be sold. Looking at these accounts, he should be. I don;t get the impression he spends much time looking at club accounts!
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Post by gashead1981 on May 31, 2019 22:06:09 GMT
We cannot deny that the Al-Qadi money has kept BRFC alive, despite the majority of the family not liking or caring about football. Unfortunately, the one member of the family who is interested in football apparently does not have the money or wherewith-all to progress the company but is simply just happy to bask in the glory of owning a football club in the English football league. Added to which his visions of grandeur, result in the employment of too many staff and personnel to match but forgets there has to be facilities in the form of training pitches and stadium to realize those well-meant aspirations. Time, young man to admit the reality and hand over while we still remember that you did come along when we needed you and we did have a couple of really exciting seasons before it turns completely sour. You don't need that, and neither do we. Please move on. See I wasn’t too wide of the mark when we had our run-ins a while back. The guy, although meaning well, is not really a Gashead. He just wanted a club, any club, to be the figurehead of so he can mug off in front of his mates at conferences and movie premieres. Hence the interest in Gillingham that I constantly refer to- it wasn’t about the UWE with us, it was about Wael having the chance to live out some boyhood fantasy. When it came down to it he didn’t have the answers of how to solve a problem like Rovers lack of a quality stadium. You are so incorrect on that. We aren’t a play thing, we were an opportunity which hasn’t worked out, mainly due to a change of circumstances within the family. He’s not a gashead in the purist sense of the term I agree but he does care and it is genuine. As regards UWE, they played us, more than once as well us probably being not to sharp on the uptake and as I posted earlier a good few things are going to come out in the wash in the coming months.
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2019 22:55:44 GMT
See I wasn’t too wide of the mark when we had our run-ins a while back. The guy, although meaning well, is not really a Gashead. He just wanted a club, any club, to be the figurehead of so he can mug off in front of his mates at conferences and movie premieres. Hence the interest in Gillingham that I constantly refer to- it wasn’t about the UWE with us, it was about Wael having the chance to live out some boyhood fantasy. When it came down to it he didn’t have the answers of how to solve a problem like Rovers lack of a quality stadium. You are so incorrect on that. We aren’t a play thing, we were an opportunity which hasn’t worked out, mainly due to a change of circumstances within the family. He’s not a gashead in the purist sense of the term I agree but he does care and it is genuine. As regards UWE, they played us, more than once as well us probably being not to sharp on the uptake and as I posted earlier a good few things are going to come out in the wash in the coming months. What was the opportunity and why hasn’t it worked out? I wish people who claim to be ITK would be a bit more specific. I’d love to know *exactly* how they went from the cusp of buying Gillingham to rocking up at Rovers intending to build a stadium. Congruency suggests they were just after a club to appease Wael and the way things have played out I very much doubt they had access to the finance to build UWE. If he is some sort of commercial genius bringing real tangible value to his role as president then he really needs to work on his public image because he comes across as the polar opposite of the type of leader a football club needs to realise it’s ambitions. Wael is nothing but a fantasist, a well meaning one at that, but a fantasist all the same.
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Post by WeAreTheGas on May 31, 2019 22:56:50 GMT
In fact, looking at these accounts year by year, I'd say we cannot sustain 3rd tier football. But surely, the players are out there in non league. I refuse to concede that If we had a scouting network that was up to snuff we couldn’t pick up enough cheap bargains to help us tread water at this level without bankrupting ourselves. The problem is scouting at this club is shambolic and of all the wastrels we have acquired on our bloated admin budget assembling a quality scouting network should have been the number one priority, instead it was given the least consideration, behind hiring a media assistant in terms of importance. Brian Dutton and his overseas imports and Widdrington operating off of Coventry city’s page in last season’s League one Panini sticker album. Not good enough, by a long bloody shot. This, this & this again. Agree with every word.
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2019 23:49:06 GMT
With all this financial doom and gloom i cant help but think back to what should have been our darkest hours ,the Twerton years, but turned out to be anything but that. ON gates half of what we get now we managed to pay over 400,000 for Tilson ,as well as twixt 200 and 300 thou for the likes of Roberts,Lambo,Cureton,Ellington,Foster,on return to Bristol, had great success, in fact, prob one of our best ever seasons when at Twerton. How did we do it? Well we sold the likes of Stewart,Taylor(Gareth!)Martyn,Ellington,Bazza,Roberts,for fees twixt 1.8 and 3 million!as well as the likes of Browning,Yates,Penrice,for well over 1/2 million! Move on to present days and we have to give away the club captain, sell a top scorer for peanuts,and allow others to leave for a steal,seem to have lost the ability to 'discover' talent in lower leagues(OLLY BRILLIANT AT THAT!)and as for paying 400 thou plus for some one ,no way !so the answer? back to Trumpton , sell the Mem, and resurrect rag bag Rovers!!and we ALL pull together!! Had a good business men running the club then and brilliant manager, best since I have been watching the club. Gerry Francis of course. Thing is francis got out at the right time,something tann,megson,trollope and dc failed to do. At a club like rovers the golden rule is to get the hell out before they sell your best players and you struggle.
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Post by gashead1981 on Jun 1, 2019 0:02:53 GMT
You are so incorrect on that. We aren’t a play thing, we were an opportunity which hasn’t worked out, mainly due to a change of circumstances within the family. He’s not a gashead in the purist sense of the term I agree but he does care and it is genuine. As regards UWE, they played us, more than once as well us probably being not to sharp on the uptake and as I posted earlier a good few things are going to come out in the wash in the coming months. What was the opportunity and why hasn’t it worked out? I wish people who claim to be ITK would be a bit more specific. I’d love to know *exactly* how they went from the cusp of buying Gillingham to rocking up at Rovers intending to build a stadium. Congruency suggests they were just after a club to appease Wael and the way things have played out I very much doubt they had access to the finance to build UWE. If he is some sort of commercial genius bringing real tangible value to his role as president then he really needs to work on his public image because he comes across as the polar opposite of the type of leader a football club needs to realise it’s ambitions. Wael is nothing but a fantasist, a well meaning one at that, but a fantasist all the same. How it happened was that Micheal Cunnah (Director of the Wembley stadium build) Hamer and the ALQs already knew each other. Micheal Cunnah was invited down to the UWE by Higgs to take a look at the site, the plans and commercial opportunity at UWE. Cunnah saw and bought into the vision that was the UWE and when investment was mentioned. Cunnah then said that there was some people they should meet. At a football league conference a week or so later Cunnah and Hamer did the introduction to our board and the rest they say is history. Gills fell through as Paul Scully wanted to stay on as chairman and would not do deal without that happening. That was of no interest to the ALQs who were looking for a majority shareholding plus Hamer had probably already sewn up his paid role as part of the deal and his commission. It was never a done deal. Higgs and ware were meant to stay on the board to help with the stadium project but at the 11th hour Hamer convinced Dunford to refuse to sell his shares if Higgs and Ware stayed on which would have put the whole deal in jeopardy had he done so. That’s not the only snakey thing he’s pulled either but I’m not divulging anything else I know. Yet.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2019 0:04:16 GMT
See I wasn’t too wide of the mark when we had our run-ins a while back. The guy, although meaning well, is not really a Gashead. He just wanted a club, any club, to be the figurehead of so he can mug off in front of his mates at conferences and movie premieres. Hence the interest in Gillingham that I constantly refer to- it wasn’t about the UWE with us, it was about Wael having the chance to live out some boyhood fantasy. When it came down to it he didn’t have the answers of how to solve a problem like Rovers lack of a quality stadium. You are so incorrect on that. We aren’t a play thing, we were an opportunity which hasn’t worked out, mainly due to a change of circumstances within the family. He’s not a gashead in the purist sense of the term I agree but he does care and it is genuine. As regards UWE, they played us, more than once as well us probably being not to sharp on the uptake and as I posted earlier a good few things are going to come out in the wash in the coming months. Thing is if he is opening his heart to you about a change in circumstances within the family but not the other 9,000 rovers fans then he is screwing up in a big way. Most fair minded rovers fans would like to hear just what has happened and what is the plan going forward after whatever setbacks wael has had at rovers. But all he does is tells it to gashead81 who then vaguely mentions it in a post on here. Pathetic on his part and yours in my view.
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Post by gashead1981 on Jun 1, 2019 0:12:04 GMT
You are so incorrect on that. We aren’t a play thing, we were an opportunity which hasn’t worked out, mainly due to a change of circumstances within the family. He’s not a gashead in the purist sense of the term I agree but he does care and it is genuine. As regards UWE, they played us, more than once as well us probably being not to sharp on the uptake and as I posted earlier a good few things are going to come out in the wash in the coming months. Thing is if he is opening his heart to you about a change in circumstances within the family but not the other 9,000 rovers fans then he is screwing up in a big way. Most fair minded rovers fans would like to hear just what has happened and what is the plan going forward after whatever setbacks wael has had at rovers. But all he does is tells it to gashead81 who then vaguely mentions it in a post on here. Pathetic on his part and yours in my view. He’s done nothing of the sort. What I have posted is what I know and have posted since the start of the season. I have assumed from the rumour gathering on here and the consistent things I hear from amongst the fans I go to football with. Hani has clearly had change of mind as to go what he wants to do with the club. That much is and should be obvious to the most regular partitioner of our club. Knowall is suggesting there are some good times ahead. I hope he is right. I have no idea what they might be, if there is something happening at all. My offer of a beer to him if he is right and a deposit into the FFSC still stands. I’m suggesting we pull together as a club and support it come what may especially going into a new season with a new manager and what will seem to be a whole new team.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2019 0:29:26 GMT
Thing is if he is opening his heart to you about a change in circumstances within the family but not the other 9,000 rovers fans then he is screwing up in a big way. Most fair minded rovers fans would like to hear just what has happened and what is the plan going forward after whatever setbacks wael has had at rovers. But all he does is tells it to gashead81 who then vaguely mentions it in a post on here. Pathetic on his part and yours in my view. He’s done nothing of the sort. What I have posted is what I know and have posted since the start of the season. I have assumed from the rumour gathering on here and the consistent things I hear from amongst the fans I go to football with. Hani has clearly had change of mind as to go what he wants to do with the club. That much is and should be obvious to the most regular partitioner of our club. Knowall is suggesting there are some good times ahead. I hope he is right. I have no idea what they might be, if there is something happening at all. My offer of a beer to him if he is right and a deposit into the FFSC still stands. I’m suggesting we pull together as a club and support it come what may especially going into a new season with a new manager and what will seem to be a whole new team. What your saying is obvious might well be well wide of the mark. What wael should do is open his heart up to the fans and explain whats happened and what the plan is going forward. How can everyone pull together when nobody knows what the hell is going on at the top of the club? Were looking at a serious or possibly catastrophic financial situation and pretty good odds on a relegation without any meaningful communication from the owners. A dire situation.
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