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Post by gashead1981 on Jun 1, 2019 0:40:17 GMT
He’s done nothing of the sort. What I have posted is what I know and have posted since the start of the season. I have assumed from the rumour gathering on here and the consistent things I hear from amongst the fans I go to football with. Hani has clearly had change of mind as to go what he wants to do with the club. That much is and should be obvious to the most regular partitioner of our club. Knowall is suggesting there are some good times ahead. I hope he is right. I have no idea what they might be, if there is something happening at all. My offer of a beer to him if he is right and a deposit into the FFSC still stands. I’m suggesting we pull together as a club and support it come what may especially going into a new season with a new manager and what will seem to be a whole new team. What your saying is obvious might well be well wide of the mark. What wael should do is open his heart up to the fans and explain whats happened and what the plan is going forward. How can everyone pull together when nobody knows what the hell is going on at the top of the club? Were looking at a serious or possibly catastrophic financial situation and pretty good odds on a relegation without any meaningful communication from the owners. A dire situation. Fair point, I have always thought there could be a bit more comms from above. That said, it seems he’s damned if he does and damned if he doesn’t. Look at the Will Smith thing. It was a touch humorous I’ll admit, but he got a panning for it. Why? It was good exposure. And given what’s been written on both forums by some about how they will give him a grilling at the next AGM you can understand if he saves face for a while and keeps the bottom half shut until there is something to tell.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2019 0:57:42 GMT
What your saying is obvious might well be well wide of the mark. What wael should do is open his heart up to the fans and explain whats happened and what the plan is going forward. How can everyone pull together when nobody knows what the hell is going on at the top of the club? Were looking at a serious or possibly catastrophic financial situation and pretty good odds on a relegation without any meaningful communication from the owners. A dire situation. Fair point, I have always thought there could be a bit more comms from above. That said, it seems he’s damned if he does and damned if he doesn’t. Look at the Will Smith thing. It was a touch humorous I’ll admit, but he got a panning for it. Why? It was good exposure. And given what’s been written on both forums by some about how they will give him a grilling at the next AGM you can understand if he saves face for a while and keeps the bottom half shut until there is something to tell. "the rise of the idiots" Meaning a minority of people on social media have an exaggerated effect on just about everything. Its also from charlie brookers nathan barley.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2019 2:16:22 GMT
What was the opportunity and why hasn’t it worked out? I wish people who claim to be ITK would be a bit more specific. I’d love to know *exactly* how they went from the cusp of buying Gillingham to rocking up at Rovers intending to build a stadium. Congruency suggests they were just after a club to appease Wael and the way things have played out I very much doubt they had access to the finance to build UWE. If he is some sort of commercial genius bringing real tangible value to his role as president then he really needs to work on his public image because he comes across as the polar opposite of the type of leader a football club needs to realise it’s ambitions. Wael is nothing but a fantasist, a well meaning one at that, but a fantasist all the same. How it happened was that Micheal Cunnah (Director of the Wembley stadium build) Hamer and the ALQs already knew each other. Micheal Cunnah was invited down to the UWE by Higgs to take a look at the site, the plans and commercial opportunity at UWE. Cunnah saw and bought into the vision that was the UWE and when investment was mentioned. Cunnah then said that there was some people they should meet. At a football league conference a week or so later Cunnah and Hamer did the introduction to our board and the rest they say is history. Gills fell through as Paul Scully wanted to stay on as chairman and would not do deal without that happening. That was of no interest to the ALQs who were looking for a majority shareholding plus Hamer had probably already sewn up his paid role as part of the deal and his commission. It was never a done deal. Higgs and ware were meant to stay on the board to help with the stadium project but at the 11th hour Hamer convinced Dunford to refuse to sell his shares if Higgs and Ware stayed on which would have put the whole deal in jeopardy had he done so. That’s not the only snakey thing he’s pulled either but I’m not divulging anything else I know. Yet. Thanks for at least putting some meat on the bones, Finally we get a deeper understanding without any wink wink nudge nudge nonsense. So the questions that spring to mind reading that; So Cunnah has faith that the AQ’s were solid investors...but what your synopsis does not explain is how the AQ’s were going to fund the stadium project. Finance was not an issue, according to Wael. Yet they have never convinced me that they have access to that sort of money, given how things have stagnated since with their only financial input being servicing the club’s debt. Do you know how they were proposing to fund the UWE or where the money was coming from? I do recall stuff about Higgs/UWE/both demanding proof of funds to show the AQ’s had the money. Hamer seems to have done very well out of this shambles, would you say, for the money he has trousered, he has added any value at all? Apart from brokering the takeover itself I really fail to see what he has brought to the role of chairman that justifies the money he seems to have earned. More than anything he seems to have been a very lucky boy with the right contacts at the right time and ridden along on everyone’s shirt tails. Lastly what is the significance of Hamer asking Dunford to lever the other two off the board? Is it possible that that request came from Wael yet delivered by Hamer? Wael would surely not have wanted Higgs to remain on the board just as he didn’t want Scally around at Gillingham. It makes more sense to consider that Hamer was doing someone’s else’s bidding to try and instigate a clean sweep of the old board.
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Post by gregsy on Jun 1, 2019 5:18:02 GMT
Seems to me that a massive misjudgement has been made thinking that if money is ploughed in then you'll get a return on it, which we all know just won't happen whilst were at the mem.... Our income is basically 7000 paying fans a few sponsors and, well, absolutely nothing else. Where did they think the cash was going to come from?
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Post by gashead1981 on Jun 1, 2019 6:57:50 GMT
How it happened was that Micheal Cunnah (Director of the Wembley stadium build) Hamer and the ALQs already knew each other. Micheal Cunnah was invited down to the UWE by Higgs to take a look at the site, the plans and commercial opportunity at UWE. Cunnah saw and bought into the vision that was the UWE and when investment was mentioned. Cunnah then said that there was some people they should meet. At a football league conference a week or so later Cunnah and Hamer did the introduction to our board and the rest they say is history. Gills fell through as Paul Scully wanted to stay on as chairman and would not do deal without that happening. That was of no interest to the ALQs who were looking for a majority shareholding plus Hamer had probably already sewn up his paid role as part of the deal and his commission. It was never a done deal. Higgs and ware were meant to stay on the board to help with the stadium project but at the 11th hour Hamer convinced Dunford to refuse to sell his shares if Higgs and Ware stayed on which would have put the whole deal in jeopardy had he done so. That’s not the only snakey thing he’s pulled either but I’m not divulging anything else I know. Yet. Thanks for at least putting some meat on the bones, Finally we get a deeper understanding without any wink wink nudge nudge nonsense. So the questions that spring to mind reading that; So Cunnah has faith that the AQ’s were solid investors...but what your synopsis does not explain is how the AQ’s were going to fund the stadium project. Finance was not an issue, according to Wael. Yet they have never convinced me that they have access to that sort of money, given how things have stagnated since with their only financial input being servicing the club’s debt. Do you know how they were proposing to fund the UWE or where the money was coming from? I do recall stuff about Higgs/UWE/both demanding proof of funds to show the AQ’s had the money. Hamer seems to have done very well out of this shambles, would you say, for the money he has trousered, he has added any value at all? Apart from brokering the takeover itself I really fail to see what he has brought to the role of chairman that justifies the money he seems to have earned. More than anything he seems to have been a very lucky boy with the right contacts at the right time and ridden along on everyone’s shirt tails. Lastly what is the significance of Hamer asking Dunford to lever the other two off the board? Is it possible that that request came from Wael yet delivered by Hamer? Wael would surely not have wanted Higgs to remain on the board just as he didn’t want Scally around at Gillingham. It makes more sense to consider that Hamer was doing someone’s else’s bidding to try and instigate a clean sweep of the old board. I don’t know the answers to your questions re the finance. I do know that proof of funds were given and I remember one ex director telling me post the take over that Hani has signed off on it and it absolutely will be built with no issues of where the money will come from. I think we can all say about Hamer from day 1 there is something not to be trusted about the bloke. You don’t get barred from the boxes of your own hometown club at Swansea (albeit for a short period) if there is no form for something negative. He wasn’t the greatest chairman Swansea had either, none of their fans hold him in that high regard. You may remember that I ripped his radio interview apart on here that he did and how he managed to lie and tie himself in knots about 3 times over the same subject. I don’t trust the bloke and yes you are correct, he’s done very well out of the family and our club. I’m willing to bet he was paid a good commission for brokering the deal plus his salary for the last 4 and bit years. If he hasn’t pocketed a net £500k I would be stunned. Difference between being a non exec director and a chairman of the company are 2 entirely different things. Non exec means you attend board meetings to offer your own specialist advice, being a chairman means you control the decision making of the day to day running of the club. Hamer clearly had this already sewn up as part of his deal.
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Marshy
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Post by Marshy on Jun 1, 2019 7:12:00 GMT
Seems to me that a massive misjudgement has been made thinking that if money is ploughed in then you'll get a return on it, which we all know just won't happen whilst were at the mem.... Our income is basically 7000 paying fans a few sponsors and, well, absolutely nothing else. Where did they think the cash was going to come from? This ^ Nail on the head Greg! As for Hamer, what does he actually do? Is he still here? Is he still stuck in that stairwell in Sunderland? Money for old rope if you ask me!
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Post by madgas on Jun 1, 2019 10:14:51 GMT
Seems to me that a massive misjudgement has been made thinking that if money is ploughed in then you'll get a return on it, which we all know just won't happen whilst were at the mem.... Our income is basically 7000 paying fans a few sponsors and, well, absolutely nothing else. Where did they think the cash was going to come from? Yet, everyone agrees with Pirate when investment is criticised? Rovers fans want no debt, loads of investment. There’s something off with how we treat the owners.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2019 10:19:41 GMT
Honestly, I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, it makes my teeth itch that people are eating out of food banks and yet Hamer has trousered all that bunce and he has probably barely done a stitch to earn it. If you really want to reach you could make a case for him being the source of all our woes as he brokered the deal and brought in the AQ’s- look where the club is now. Is this really the position we wanted to be in? Of course all if’s And but’s. If Hamer never rocked up we could have gone into admin as some think was inevitable, we could have been bought by some Saudi Prince instead if we had waited longer etc. Either way, to think Hamer has profited so massively from where we are now and has very little effort to show for it makes me ill
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Post by blueridge on Jun 1, 2019 10:48:30 GMT
Honestly, I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, it makes my teeth itch that people are eating out of food banks and yet Hamer has trousered all that bunce and he has probably barely done a stitch to earn it. If you really want to reach you could make a case for him being the source of all our woes as he brokered the deal and brought in the AQ’s- look where the club is now. Is this really the position we wanted to be in? Of course all if’s And but’s. If Hamer never rocked up we could have gone into admin as some think was inevitable, we could have been bought by some Saudi Prince instead if we had waited longer etc. Either way, to think Hamer has profited so massively from where we are now and has very little effort to show for it makes me ill If that's the case, and I'm not doubting you btw, I'm surprised he's still employed by the ALQ's with the situation they now find themselves in.
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Post by Topper Gas on Jun 1, 2019 11:15:54 GMT
Honestly, I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, it makes my teeth itch that people are eating out of food banks and yet Hamer has trousered all that bunce and he has probably barely done a stitch to earn it. If you really want to reach you could make a case for him being the source of all our woes as he brokered the deal and brought in the AQ’s- look where the club is now. Is this really the position we wanted to be in? Of course all if’s And but’s. If Hamer never rocked up we could have gone into admin as some think was inevitable, we could have been bought by some Saudi Prince instead if we had waited longer etc. Either way, to think Hamer has profited so massively from where we are now and has very little effort to show for it makes me ill If that's the case, and I'm not doubting you btw, I'm surprised he's still employed by the ALQ's with the situation they now find themselves in. He seems to have disappeared post DC, is he on gardening leave whilst he works his notice as I assume like most co. chairman he will have a notice period in his contract. To be fair to Hamer he pulled a blinder, he'd been out of football management for years but trousered a £70K p.a. contract with us when he was 65 yrs+ I bet it couldn't believe his luck, although just how naive was Wael if we could all see though Hamer but he couldn't when he sat alongside him? I never understood how the UWE was going to be feasible w/o Sainsbury's money as it probably wasn't even with it. Why can't we just find a plot of land and build a 15,000 seat/safe standing stadium, we don't need a world class stadium we just need a modern one, with room to expand if we do ever progress as a club.
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Post by Kingswood Polak on Jun 1, 2019 11:25:42 GMT
If that's the case, and I'm not doubting you btw, I'm surprised he's still employed by the ALQ's with the situation they now find themselves in. He seems to have disappeared post DC, is he on gardening leave whilst he works his notice as I assume like most co. chairman he will have a notice period in his contract. To be fair to Hamer he pulled a blinder, he'd been out of football management for years but trousered a £70K p.a. contract with us when he was 65 yrs+ I bet it couldn't believe his luck, although just how naive was Wael if we could all see though Hamer but he couldn't when he sat alongside him? I never understood how the UWE was going to be feasible w/o Sainsbury's money as it probably wasn't even with it. Why can't we just find a plot of land and build a 15,000 seat/safe standing stadium, we don't need a world class stadium we just need a modern one, with room to expand if we do ever progress as a club. I don’t think that finding a plot is the biggest problem, I think getting permission to build is. Then we have the various NIMBY groups, most of which are led by people not even born in Bristol. We certainly have our work cut out to get something tangible. You only have to look as far as BS3 to see what SL had to do. I certainly don’t envy those tasked with trying to get a feasible plot and then obtaining to various permissions to build.
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Post by aghast on Jun 1, 2019 11:35:13 GMT
Honestly, I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, it makes my teeth itch that people are eating out of food banks and yet Hamer has trousered all that bunce and he has probably barely done a stitch to earn it. If you really want to reach you could make a case for him being the source of all our woes as he brokered the deal and brought in the AQ’s- look where the club is now. Is this really the position we wanted to be in? Of course all if’s And but’s. If Hamer never rocked up we could have gone into admin as some think was inevitable, we could have been bought by some Saudi Prince instead if we had waited longer etc. Either way, to think Hamer has profited so massively from where we are now and has very little effort to show for it makes me ill If you want to scream about injustice in this world, there are bigger villains available than Steve Hamer. From what I've always heard him say, he seems as disappointed at the lack of progress as anyone else. He always used to get wheeled out to face the press, so he had to tow the party line, but for me I thought he really wanted and expected things to happen. I know not many like him, but I think he's been a bit hard done by in all this.
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Post by knowall on Jun 1, 2019 11:42:04 GMT
What was the opportunity and why hasn’t it worked out? I wish people who claim to be ITK would be a bit more specific. I’d love to know *exactly* how they went from the cusp of buying Gillingham to rocking up at Rovers intending to build a stadium. Congruency suggests they were just after a club to appease Wael and the way things have played out I very much doubt they had access to the finance to build UWE. If he is some sort of commercial genius bringing real tangible value to his role as president then he really needs to work on his public image because he comes across as the polar opposite of the type of leader a football club needs to realise it’s ambitions. Wael is nothing but a fantasist, a well meaning one at that, but a fantasist all the same. How it happened was that Micheal Cunnah (Director of the Wembley stadium build) Hamer and the ALQs already knew each other. Micheal Cunnah was invited down to the UWE by Higgs to take a look at the site, the plans and commercial opportunity at UWE. Cunnah saw and bought into the vision that was the UWE and when investment was mentioned. Cunnah then said that there was some people they should meet. At a football league conference a week or so later Cunnah and Hamer did the introduction to our board and the rest they say is history. Gills fell through as Paul Scully wanted to stay on as chairman and would not do deal without that happening. That was of no interest to the ALQs who were looking for a majority shareholding plus Hamer had probably already sewn up his paid role as part of the deal and his commission. It was never a done deal. Higgs and ware were meant to stay on the board to help with the stadium project but at the 11th hour Hamer convinced Dunford to refuse to sell his shares if Higgs and Ware stayed on which would have put the whole deal in jeopardy had he done so. That’s not the only snakey thing he’s pulled either but I’m not divulging anything else I know. Yet. I was never good at history, but whilst your version is enjoyable and mainly correct, there are errors which I bring to your attention. Firstly, the change in the family attitude was due mainly because they wanted provision for a hotel and other income producing facilities (what you describe as commercial opportunity) which was unacceptable to UWE. As far as the deal was concerned that was ultimately a game changer. Secondly, G Dunford was not influenced by anyone, he simply used the power of a charge on assets to recover his investment. GD was always tactically aware. - a very clever man. Unfortunately, you and I both, rely on information from what now appears to be opposite 'sides' and that obviously forms our opinions. I will take this opportunity to remind you that your object of blame - Steve Hamer, like most of us, believed the Al-Qadi family to be fully engaged with the project ahead, and to have the funds to complete what Higgs and Co handed over. He made public statements and announcements because he understood the family were able to honour their commitment. Easy to accuse him and others - but why no blame on the owners??? rather unfair I suggest. This thread is about the financial position of the football club we support financially, and whilst no-one can deny the Al-Qadi family have invested heavily, (more than they originally anticipated) we have to ask what that investment has achieved? Already we know that there are increases in what we have to pay to support our team next season, match tickets, car park, etc etc - and yet to be announced catering and bar prices, and what can Wael Al-Qadi offer us for our investment? - stadium? training ground? team enhancement? - maybe we will learn this at the AGM? Personally, I remain confident that there is help at hand, subject to the Al-Qadi family, standing aside and admitting that the project is bigger than they anticipated, in the same way that Higgs and Co did a few years ago, no shame in that.
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Post by gashead1981 on Jun 1, 2019 12:16:12 GMT
How it happened was that Micheal Cunnah (Director of the Wembley stadium build) Hamer and the ALQs already knew each other. Micheal Cunnah was invited down to the UWE by Higgs to take a look at the site, the plans and commercial opportunity at UWE. Cunnah saw and bought into the vision that was the UWE and when investment was mentioned. Cunnah then said that there was some people they should meet. At a football league conference a week or so later Cunnah and Hamer did the introduction to our board and the rest they say is history. Gills fell through as Paul Scully wanted to stay on as chairman and would not do deal without that happening. That was of no interest to the ALQs who were looking for a majority shareholding plus Hamer had probably already sewn up his paid role as part of the deal and his commission. It was never a done deal. Higgs and ware were meant to stay on the board to help with the stadium project but at the 11th hour Hamer convinced Dunford to refuse to sell his shares if Higgs and Ware stayed on which would have put the whole deal in jeopardy had he done so. That’s not the only snakey thing he’s pulled either but I’m not divulging anything else I know. Yet. I was never good at history, but whilst your version is enjoyable and mainly correct, there are errors which I bring to your attention. Firstly, the change in the family attitude was due mainly because they wanted provision for a hotel and other income producing facilities (what you describe as commercial opportunity) which was unacceptable to UWE. As far as the deal was concerned that was ultimately a game changer. Secondly, G Dunford was not influenced by anyone, he simply used the power of a charge on assets to recover his investment. GD was always tactically aware. - a very clever man. Unfortunately, you and I both, rely on information from what now appears to be opposite 'sides' and that obviously forms our opinions. I will take this opportunity to remind you that your object of blame - Steve Hamer, like most of us, believed the Al-Qadi family to be fully engaged with the project ahead, and to have the funds to complete what Higgs and Co handed over. He made public statements and announcements because he understood the family were able to honour their commitment. Easy to accuse him and others - but why no blame on the owners??? rather unfair I suggest. This thread is about the financial position of the football club we support financially, and whilst no-one can deny the Al-Qadi family have invested heavily, (more than they originally anticipated) we have to ask what that investment has achieved? Already we know that there are increases in what we have to pay to support our team next season, match tickets, car park, etc etc - and yet to be announced catering and bar prices, and what can Wael Al-Qadi offer us for our investment? - stadium? training ground? team enhancement? - maybe we will learn this at the AGM? Personally, I remain confident that there is help at hand, subject to the Al-Qadi family, standing aside and admitting that the project is bigger than they anticipated, in the same way that Higgs and Co did a few years ago, no shame in that. GD was always going to get his return on his investment via the charge, that wasn’t what I said though. All the other ex directors will tell you the same story. Steve Hamer isn’t an object of blame any more or less than the rest of the board. You know I have been highly critical of all them over the past 2 years. But there has been an obvious shift in dynamic since Starnes has come in. And there is an obvious disconnect with them both. It doesn’t help that I could pick apart Hamers lies so easily and he’s the biggest politician bull💩er you can find and it’s so obvious that there is an agenda at play. And Hamer is very capable of nailing his colours to the mast of what will suit him best. He couldn’t give a toss about Rovers any more than I do about Swansea. Perhaps your defence of him suggests that where some of the source your info comes from? I have no doubt you will have opportunity to ask your questions at the AGM soon? I don’t have any sources other than people I go to football with that pick up bits and bobs here and there. They aren’t directly involved with the club in anyway. In short the ALQs have done what other boards could have done which is increase our net debt in exchange for extra staff, development squads etc and after the collapse of the UWE there was no real clarity going forward how we could continue at that level without having some way of getting that back. I do hope that your information is correct that our future is going to be brighter in a few months than it is now.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2019 12:33:41 GMT
Honestly, I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, it makes my teeth itch that people are eating out of food banks and yet Hamer has trousered all that bunce and he has probably barely done a stitch to earn it. If you really want to reach you could make a case for him being the source of all our woes as he brokered the deal and brought in the AQ’s- look where the club is now. Is this really the position we wanted to be in? Of course all if’s And but’s. If Hamer never rocked up we could have gone into admin as some think was inevitable, we could have been bought by some Saudi Prince instead if we had waited longer etc. Either way, to think Hamer has profited so massively from where we are now and has very little effort to show for it makes me ill If you want to scream about injustice in this world, there are bigger villains available than Steve Hamer. From what I've always heard him say, he seems as disappointed at the lack of progress as anyone else. He always used to get wheeled out to face the press, so he had to tow the party line, but for me I thought he really wanted and expected things to happen. I know not many like him, but I think he's been a bit hard done by in all this. I get where you’re coming from...but hard done by? Really? Pay me 75k a year and I’ll happily speak to the press and bumble through some crass analogies whilst comparing Rovers 2017 to 1988 Wimbledon. Apart from that and some average commentary skills what has he brought to the club? No wonder we are in the mess we are in financially when we have people on the pay roll who seemingly do very little to justify their pay. To look at it from a wider angle, taking into account Starnes friendship with Wael and Wael creating a job for him it looks increasingly clear that Wael likes to surround himself with an entourage of people who are able to profit out of his inability to show decisive leadership. As a result the club seems laden down with bloat. You can only imagine what jobs people fulfill at the club these days, it’s probably as bad as the tales me old man used to tell me of how decadent BAE was in Filton in the 80s
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Post by Topper Gas on Jun 1, 2019 13:34:22 GMT
How it happened was that Micheal Cunnah (Director of the Wembley stadium build) Hamer and the ALQs already knew each other. Micheal Cunnah was invited down to the UWE by Higgs to take a look at the site, the plans and commercial opportunity at UWE. Cunnah saw and bought into the vision that was the UWE and when investment was mentioned. Cunnah then said that there was some people they should meet. At a football league conference a week or so later Cunnah and Hamer did the introduction to our board and the rest they say is history. Gills fell through as Paul Scully wanted to stay on as chairman and would not do deal without that happening. That was of no interest to the ALQs who were looking for a majority shareholding plus Hamer had probably already sewn up his paid role as part of the deal and his commission. It was never a done deal. Higgs and ware were meant to stay on the board to help with the stadium project but at the 11th hour Hamer convinced Dunford to refuse to sell his shares if Higgs and Ware stayed on which would have put the whole deal in jeopardy had he done so. That’s not the only snakey thing he’s pulled either but I’m not divulging anything else I know. Yet. I was never good at history, but whilst your version is enjoyable and mainly correct, there are errors which I bring to your attention. Firstly, the change in the family attitude was due mainly because they wanted provision for a hotel and other income producing facilities (what you describe as commercial opportunity) which was unacceptable to UWE. As far as the deal was concerned that was ultimately a game changer. Secondly, G Dunford was not influenced by anyone, he simply used the power of a charge on assets to recover his investment. GD was always tactically aware. - a very clever man. Unfortunately, you and I both, rely on information from what now appears to be opposite 'sides' and that obviously forms our opinions. I will take this opportunity to remind you that your object of blame - Steve Hamer, like most of us, believed the Al-Qadi family to be fully engaged with the project ahead, and to have the funds to complete what Higgs and Co handed over. He made public statements and announcements because he understood the family were able to honour their commitment. Easy to accuse him and others - but why no blame on the owners??? rather unfair I suggest. This thread is about the financial position of the football club we support financially, and whilst no-one can deny the Al-Qadi family have invested heavily, (more than they originally anticipated) we have to ask what that investment has achieved? Already we know that there are increases in what we have to pay to support our team next season, match tickets, car park, etc etc - and yet to be announced catering and bar prices, and what can Wael Al-Qadi offer us for our investment? - stadium? training ground? team enhancement? - maybe we will learn this at the AGM? Personally, I remain confident that there is help at hand, subject to the Al-Qadi family, standing aside and admitting that the project is bigger than they anticipated, in the same way that Higgs and Co did a few years ago, no shame in that. I can't see it took the ALQ's 18 months to work out that commercial developments were going to be a no go with the UWE, there must be further reasons.
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Post by Big Jock on Jun 1, 2019 14:17:59 GMT
As a layman, i can only feel th Al Qadi's did not do enough due diligence before buying us, particularly regarding UWE Stadium.
Lightning struck twice when Th Colony was bought, again with lack of real planning/thought. Despite UWE bein a major disappointment th Training Ground was key, i seem ta remember John Ward and DC both saying its an absolute must to have the youngsters/development squad/first team all train together, which may be why we aint reaping th benefits from either.
Its now over 3 years since they took over and while i still think their heart is in th right place we are spunking cash like never before which imo leaves them between a rock an a hard place.
Personally, i think Wael himself needs to roll his fucckin sleeves up and look at all aspects of th club himself and figure out why we are treading water with so many extra staff now employed, who he obviously thought would progress th club and improve th finances. Th fact is they haven't and it may be he has to ship a few out and cut back on a few failing projects to get th budget back on course. Th staff aint exactly gonna admit their failing themselves are they ffs! He always said 'sustainability' was th key and sorry but for whatever reason it don't take a rocket scientist ta see it aint bloody workin. In fact it aint 'Sustainable its distinctly 'Un sustainable'
Nae offence intended to anyone. I still wishes th lad well.
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Post by Topper Gas on Jun 1, 2019 14:37:06 GMT
As a layman, i can only feel th Al Qadi's did not do enough due diligence before buying us, particularly regarding UWE Stadium.
Lightning struck twice when Th Colony was bought, again with lack of real planning/thought. Despite UWE bein a major disappointment th Training Ground was key, i seem ta remember John Ward and DC both saying its an absolute must to have the youngsters/development squad/first team all train together, which may be why we aint reaping th benefits from either.
Its now over 3 years since they took over and while i still think their heart is in th right place we are spunking cash like never before which imo leaves them between a rock an a hard place.
Personally, i think Wael himself needs to roll his fucckin sleeves up and look at all aspects of th club himself and figure out why we are treading water with so many extra staff now employed, who he obviously thought would progress th club and improve th finances. Th fact is they haven't and it may be he has to ship a few out and cut back on a few failing projects to get th budget back on course. Th staff aint exactly gonna admit their failing themselves are they ffs! He always said 'sustainability' was th key and sorry but for whatever reason it don't take a rocket scientist ta see it aint bloody workin. In fact it aint 'Sustainable its distinctly 'Un sustainable'
Nae offence intended to anyone. I still wishes th lad well.
Re The Colony you can only assume they though the UWE was a done deal, although god knows how they were going to fund a new stadium and a training complex, unless that was all part of the investment package arranged for the UWE. Although perhaps Wael &/or Hamer convinced Hani the UWE was a done deal so he approved the purchase or the land. As far as sustainability we can hope Martyn Starnes is cutting down on staff etc and that was one of the reasons DC started whinging after he lost some support when Steve Brookfield departed.
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Post by knowall on Jun 1, 2019 16:01:28 GMT
I was never good at history, but whilst your version is enjoyable and mainly correct, there are errors which I bring to your attention. Firstly, the change in the family attitude was due mainly because they wanted provision for a hotel and other income producing facilities (what you describe as commercial opportunity) which was unacceptable to UWE. As far as the deal was concerned that was ultimately a game changer. Secondly, G Dunford was not influenced by anyone, he simply used the power of a charge on assets to recover his investment. GD was always tactically aware. - a very clever man. Unfortunately, you and I both, rely on information from what now appears to be opposite 'sides' and that obviously forms our opinions. I will take this opportunity to remind you that your object of blame - Steve Hamer, like most of us, believed the Al-Qadi family to be fully engaged with the project ahead, and to have the funds to complete what Higgs and Co handed over. He made public statements and announcements because he understood the family were able to honour their commitment. Easy to accuse him and others - but why no blame on the owners??? rather unfair I suggest. This thread is about the financial position of the football club we support financially, and whilst no-one can deny the Al-Qadi family have invested heavily, (more than they originally anticipated) we have to ask what that investment has achieved? Already we know that there are increases in what we have to pay to support our team next season, match tickets, car park, etc etc - and yet to be announced catering and bar prices, and what can Wael Al-Qadi offer us for our investment? - stadium? training ground? team enhancement? - maybe we will learn this at the AGM? Personally, I remain confident that there is help at hand, subject to the Al-Qadi family, standing aside and admitting that the project is bigger than they anticipated, in the same way that Higgs and Co did a few years ago, no shame in that. GD was always going to get his return on his investment via the charge, that wasn’t what I said though. All the other ex directors will tell you the same story. Steve Hamer isn’t an object of blame any more or less than the rest of the board. You know I have been highly critical of all them over the past 2 years. But there has been an obvious shift in dynamic since Starnes has come in. And there is an obvious disconnect with them both. It doesn’t help that I could pick apart Hamers lies so easily and he’s the biggest politician bull💩er you can find and it’s so obvious that there is an agenda at play. And Hamer is very capable of nailing his colours to the mast of what will suit him best. He couldn’t give a toss about Rovers any more than I do about Swansea. Perhaps your defence of him suggests that where some of the source your info comes from? I have no doubt you will have opportunity to ask your questions at the AGM soon? I don’t have any sources other than people I go to football with that pick up bits and bobs here and there. They aren’t directly involved with the club in anyway. In short the ALQs have done what other boards could have done which is increase our net debt in exchange for extra staff, development squads etc and after the collapse of the UWE there was no real clarity going forward how we could continue at that level without having some way of getting that back. I do hope that your information is correct that our future is going to be brighter in a few months than it is now. The ex-directors can tell you as many stories as they like but no-one (including Mr Hamer) ever told Geoff Dunford what to do. And the charge was only lodged when GD realised where we were headed after he had to step down and felt he needed to protect his personal wealth. For the record, I have not spoken to Mr Hamer for many months but I have spoken to Wael Al-Qadi and several of those around him. As for your not having 'sources' I refer you to your last post where you say "All the other ex directors will tell you the same story." Are they not sources? And with due respect to the people that you go to football with how do you evaluate the 'bits and bobs here and there' when 'they aren't directly involved with the Club?' - isn't that what they call hearsay? Finally, I remain confident for the future, and following the release of the Accounts, if I am wrong, then I cannot contemplate what could happen. By the way, I look forward to sharing that drink with you - maybe at the first game of the new season? - Will it be champagne - I do hope so.
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Post by gashead1981 on Jun 1, 2019 17:19:06 GMT
GD was always going to get his return on his investment via the charge, that wasn’t what I said though. All the other ex directors will tell you the same story. Steve Hamer isn’t an object of blame any more or less than the rest of the board. You know I have been highly critical of all them over the past 2 years. But there has been an obvious shift in dynamic since Starnes has come in. And there is an obvious disconnect with them both. It doesn’t help that I could pick apart Hamers lies so easily and he’s the biggest politician bull💩er you can find and it’s so obvious that there is an agenda at play. And Hamer is very capable of nailing his colours to the mast of what will suit him best. He couldn’t give a toss about Rovers any more than I do about Swansea. Perhaps your defence of him suggests that where some of the source your info comes from? I have no doubt you will have opportunity to ask your questions at the AGM soon? I don’t have any sources other than people I go to football with that pick up bits and bobs here and there. They aren’t directly involved with the club in anyway. In short the ALQs have done what other boards could have done which is increase our net debt in exchange for extra staff, development squads etc and after the collapse of the UWE there was no real clarity going forward how we could continue at that level without having some way of getting that back. I do hope that your information is correct that our future is going to be brighter in a few months than it is now. The ex-directors can tell you as many stories as they like but no-one (including Mr Hamer) ever told Geoff Dunford what to do. And the charge was only lodged when GD realised where we were headed after he had to step down and felt he needed to protect his personal wealth. For the record, I have not spoken to Mr Hamer for many months but I have spoken to Wael Al-Qadi and several of those around him. As for your not having 'sources' I refer you to your last post where you say "All the other ex directors will tell you the same story." Are they not sources? And with due respect to the people that you go to football with how do you evaluate the 'bits and bobs here and there' when 'they aren't directly involved with the Club?' - isn't that what they call hearsay? Finally, I remain confident for the future, and following the release of the Accounts, if I am wrong, then I cannot contemplate what could happen. By the way, I look forward to sharing that drink with you - maybe at the first game of the new season? - Will it be champagne - I do hope so. What did Wael Al’Qadi say to you? Is that where you have the lowdown on what may be around the corner? I will buy you a bottle of whatever you want Knowall, true as I am to my word, and if it requires champagne, we will have 2. One each!
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