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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2019 12:47:33 GMT
I think we are okay in terms of physicality tbh, Davies and Craig are known for putting their bodies on the line, Mark Little is a barnstorming right back and isn’t easily shrugged off the ball, then with Agogo and Ollie in the middle both willing to fly into tackles, the only place we lack it is on the wings, Bennett is my only worry as it does look like he’s staying, never seen him win a physical battle and I hope we can replace him with a better and more consistent willing player who will actually put himself into the mix Wingers aren't there to put themselves about, to be fair. I agree that we are fine physically (well, those still standing after the pre-season); it's more artistry that this team is crying out for and IMO will struggle without.
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Post by bluestone on Jul 22, 2019 12:48:07 GMT
Now let's av tings roight, it's paper over the cracks not cover.
Did you learn nothing from DC???
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2019 13:01:40 GMT
Pfft what a disappointing thread after a great title.
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Marshy
Proper Gas
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Post by Marshy on Jul 22, 2019 13:02:51 GMT
Pfft what a disappointing thread after a great title. Ha ha, cracking!
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Post by GasAttacK on Jul 22, 2019 13:32:54 GMT
I didnt realise we were in the relegation zone with no chance of survial already...?? Lets see how the first few games pan out and also what we really look like once the transfer window closes. No need to be so negative just yet. The players we have signed are equivilant to or an upgrade on what we had previously IMO. As regards the development squad, I would say it probably cost somewhere more in the region of £1m to operate once you take into consideration all the coaches fees, wages, physio support, scouting etc. Micheal Kelly and Alfie Kilgour both stepped up last year. Deon Moore has short term contract after spending the last 6 months in the U23's and Luke Russe also has potential to improve and has been in a few matchday squads. So its not as dramatic as you are making out. Dont forget the dev squad games are also used for 1st team players to play to keep them match sharp or gain match fitness without exhausting your first team squad and arranging fixtures purely for that purpose. That will then enable the dev squad to play with and learn from them. I think the main problem is we release players far too early previously without giving them time to develop properly. What if we had kept Tyrone Mings until he was 22, it could have been a different story. I'm not sure how many are an improvement if I'm honest. Early days but:
Are either keeper as good as Bonham. Only based on one performance it's true but Jaakkola didn't look as good.
Little may be an improvement on Leadbitter and Partington. Not convinced he's a better defender than J.Clarke, better going forward though.
Davies isn't a patch on Lockyer.
Leahy not as good as the injured Holmes-Dennis.
Lines and Sinclair released but not replaced.
Is Smith an improvment on Jakubiak? Not sure.
Personally, I'd say we're not as strong as last season but time will tell.
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Post by lpgas on Jul 22, 2019 14:28:39 GMT
Look at Kelly, came in and did a reasonable job, and he is only going to get better , where as the loan we signed from Stevenage never will.
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Post by 2nd May 1990 on Jul 22, 2019 14:51:45 GMT
For me, one of the most disappointing things about last season was that Luke Russe seemed to be frozen out. At the end of the previous season he looked very promising and I think he deserved a run in the first team at the beginning of the season. However, we signed Upson and suddenly he didn’t get a look in. Was he injured at all or was it simply being overlooked?
If you have a development squad you have to be prepared to use it and see further than the short term. I think Wael would be within his rights to say to Coughlan that it’s the third year of it this year and you either use it or lose it.
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Post by wertongas on Jul 22, 2019 15:05:55 GMT
I didnt realise we were in the relegation zone with no chance of survial already...?? Lets see how the first few games pan out and also what we really look like once the transfer window closes. No need to be so negative just yet. The players we have signed are equivilant to or an upgrade on what we had previously IMO. As regards the development squad, I would say it probably cost somewhere more in the region of £1m to operate once you take into consideration all the coaches fees, wages, physio support, scouting etc. Micheal Kelly and Alfie Kilgour both stepped up last year. Deon Moore has short term contract after spending the last 6 months in the U23's and Luke Russe also has potential to improve and has been in a few matchday squads. So its not as dramatic as you are making out. Dont forget the dev squad games are also used for 1st team players to play to keep them match sharp or gain match fitness without exhausting your first team squad and arranging fixtures purely for that purpose. That will then enable the dev squad to play with and learn from them. I think the main problem is we release players far too early previously without giving them time to develop properly. What if we had kept Tyrone Mings until he was 22, it could have been a different story. I'm not sure how many are an improvement if I'm honest. Early days but:
Are either keeper as good as Bonham. Only based on one performance it's true but Jaakkola didn't look as good.
Little may be an improvement on Leadbitter and Partington. Not convinced he's a better defender than J.Clarke, better going forward though.
Davies isn't a patch on Lockyer.
Leahy not as good as the injured Holmes-Dennis.
Lines and Sinclair released but not replaced.
Is Smith an improvment on Jakubiak? Not sure.
Personally, I'd say we're not as strong as last season but time will tell.
I think we are definitely a lot stronger than the beginning of last season , Harrison was a big loss and we never really replaced him until January. as for the end of last season I think we are about the same , strengthened a bit on the right side at the back but a bit weaker in the central defence. As to the game against Birmingham , we did well in the first half but once some of our key players went off we struggled, never the less their was no Clarke Harris and Nichols his favoured strike partner, if those two had played and Harris scored and we got a result we may not have been having this conversation now. Need to be patient, I think we will be ok this season.
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Post by Hudson1883 on Jul 22, 2019 15:07:29 GMT
I’m going to assume the OP has never seen Ollie Clark play before, having listed our only ‘physical players’ as Deon Moore & Alex Rodman. Which is quite laughable.
Ollie would go through the pair of them in a 50/50 like a stream train.
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Post by Topper Gas on Jul 22, 2019 15:13:49 GMT
I’m going to assume the OP has never seen Ollie Clark play before, having listed our only ‘physical players’ as Deon Moore & Alex Rodman. Which is quite laughable. Ollie would go through the pair of them in a 50/50 like a stream train. I assume he's referring to the forwards, although not sure I'd class Rodman as physical, for his build he's no Monkhouse!
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Post by stevek192 on Jul 22, 2019 15:28:46 GMT
I did mean attacking players or players who can dominate a midfied with their physical presence. Ollie rarely dominates a midfield and IMO is very limited.Rodman and Moore are giants compared to the rest. We are a very lightweight team!
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Post by peterparker on Jul 22, 2019 15:41:35 GMT
For me, one of the most disappointing things about last season was that Luke Russe seemed to be frozen out. At the end of the previous season he looked very promising and I think he deserved a run in the first team at the beginning of the season. However, we signed Upson and suddenly he didn’t get a look in. Was he injured at all or was it simply being overlooked? If you have a development squad you have to be prepared to use it and see further than the short term. I think Wael would be within his rights to say to Coughlan that it’s the third year of it this year and you either use it or lose it. thing is we had a million central midfielders.
Of course on one hand you have SteveK saying we haven't replaced Lines and Sinclair, whilst simultaneously questioning the worth of the Dev squad.
Per haps we don't need/want to replace Lines/Sinclair because we have Russe, Hargreaves etc
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Post by stapletongas on Jul 22, 2019 15:47:49 GMT
Coughlan gone by Christmas, another relegation scrap
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Post by stevek192 on Jul 22, 2019 15:56:08 GMT
peterparker, I don't disagree with allowing Lines/Sinclair to leave ,the same way I wouldn't disagree with Bennett going but you are having a laugh if you seriously believe that any of our development squad are capable of replacing them! My problem is not who we release but who we replace them with!!
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Post by peterparker on Jul 22, 2019 15:57:37 GMT
peterparker, I don't disagree with allowing Lines/Sinclair to leave ,the same way I wouldn't disagree with Bennett going but you are having a laugh if you seriously believe that any of our development squad are capable of replacing them! My problem is not who we release but who we replace them with!! the point is how do we know if they are any good or not. Perhaps GC who has seen more of Luke Russe might have a better idea than say me who has seen him for all of 20 mins or something
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Post by reason on Jul 22, 2019 16:14:06 GMT
Some teams can cover up their weaknesses but that is not something that GC can do because it is obvious straight away if a team lacks physical presence and further through our squad you go the worse it gets. Saturdays game was crying out for the things we all knew were missing last season- the creativity to really create chances and without Clarke-Harris it is even more evidend because other than Deon Moore and Rodman there is no physical presence whatsoever and we all know that we will again come up against numerous uncompromising defenders and lack the physique to match them or the ability to break them down with a midfield that in Upson,Ogogo and Ollie Clarke lacks the ability to change defence to attack.I would question the wisdom of running a Development squad because the only player who has really made any mark on the first team is Kelly and I have serious doubts as to whether he can make the grade. it seems that we are a team which is going to be made up of free transfers and loans rather than players coming through from a Development squad and when you see a loan like Tyler Smith come in who will obviously go in front of any Development players you really wonder about the worth of the Development team. Is ,for instance a player like Chris Hargreaves now going to make first team football at this level? maybe there is hope for Deon Moore and Alfie Kilgour but neither were really brought up by the Development squad. Saturday clearly showed that we lack the same things we lacked last season and it doesn't matter if it was only a friendly or a training session or a proper match as it just showed what we all know and only three signings minimum in my view will give us any chance of being anything other than a mid- bottom four side. Some will say get rid of Bennett but in truth I really can't see GC getting anything better so what is the point? Pace is lacking too but that may be able to be covered over with two attacking wing backs. It will be an interesting build up to the Blackpool game to see just what, if any, ambition there is by our owners as so far it seems that we lose flair players but do not have the resources to bring any in.
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Post by stevek192 on Jul 22, 2019 16:17:58 GMT
In all honesty I think GC knows fully too well who isn't good enough but is struggling with finances to bring in the players he knows we need. I hope you are wrong Stapletongas as regards gone by Christmas. I see DC is up to his usual tricks at Walsall with lots of trialists. If we can get three more signings in the door in the more attacking/creative mould then I feel GC will have us prepared for the first game even the first half of the season unlike DC!
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Post by madgas on Jul 22, 2019 16:19:32 GMT
Crazy post.
The one thing I'll guarantee you is that the team is physical enough.
Also that "physical" agenda seems from a bygone agenda.
Is there enough skill? More doubtful but hey why wait until the season starts to slag off the boys... eh?
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Post by Topper Gas on Jul 22, 2019 17:01:45 GMT
Crazy post. The one thing I'll guarantee you is that the team is physical enough. Also that "physical" agenda seems from a bygone agenda. Is there enough skill? More doubtful but hey why wait until the season starts to slag off the boys... eh? Didn't we only improve last season when we finally replaced Harrison with JCH? In the Premiership you don't need to be physical but you certainly do at this level.
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Post by reason on Jul 22, 2019 17:07:25 GMT
A few contradictions here Steve. You start by mentioning a lack of physical presence but then talk about creativity. Not mutually exclusive of course, but generally it's not expected that your strong physical types also provide your creative element. Actually, I think our first eleven will be a bigger side than last season.
As for the Development Squad, Kilgour came through our Academy then to the Development Squad, and Deon Moore was signed to come into it. The whole point is to allow younger players time to develop from the youth system, or just provide a transition period for younger players to first team football. Without it we would not have signed Moore, as he was obviously seen as not ready to displace our first choice strikers at the time, but seen as one for the future. Hopefully, that will come to fruition, but time will tell.
However, that brings me on to the other contradiction, that I so often hear - fans calling out to 'give youth a chance', but at the same time calling for more signings! Why is it that we always seem to be at least 3 players away from a team good enough, for promotion, for survival etc., etc!
Just having 3 or 4 Development players in the squad, with even only one or two in the first team is a success as far as I am concerned. Whether Kelly goes on to become a regular first team player or not, I see him coming through, as just what the Development Squad is all about. He may not have been Darrell's preferred option had we had more funds, but Kelly did come through and esatablish himself last season. Young players take time and they may not be at their best when with us, but that is the same conundrum most clubs have to contend with.
Many players with great potential disappear (Shaquille Hunter, Ben Swallow, etc.) whilst other young players we bring in on loan, seem no greater than what we have, albeit that they do move on to greater things later (Ollie McBurnie, Conor Roberts, Marc Bola etc.). Allegedly Bola is subject to a £1 million pound offer, and McBurnie's £15m seems ludicrous, given that Daniel James also went for the same sum. James is a case in point. Our very own Alex Rodman restricting James' appearances whilst on loan at Shrewsbury.
Of ourse it is all about a balance of youth coming through, and experienced established players, marshalling and advising, on and off the pitch (Tony Craig). And of having patience - which most clubs cannot afford. It will be great if we can have Kilgour and/or Menayese come through this year, and even better if Deon Moore does too, but I would not expect many more this season. All, by the way, adding considerably to the much needed physical presence - UTG!
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