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Post by mehewmagic on Jan 18, 2020 23:02:31 GMT
For all those who have said No or get out my club I’m really interested to understand what your realistic expectations are and how Wael and Co have not done what the have always said they’d do? I agree that the communication could be better but us fans don’t have a given right to know absolutely everything about everything that goes on at the club. Re the training ground and stadium I agree better messaging behind why they haven’t progressed as quickly as we’d like would be useful but sometimes we have to take things at face value and accept reasons given. I do accept there are many things they can’t or won’t say due to commercial sensitivity or legal/non disclosure reasons... These reasons don’t make me think they should go - I’m not sure who else would underwrite c£3.5m losses per annum on an ongoing basis and the charge on the Mem is just standard secured loan practice and is only a problem if they call it in - the debt they owe to themselves.... They’ve always said they wouldn’t just gift money to the club and we should be as self sustaining as possible so I’m not sure why anyone thinks they’d suddenly change that stance? Genuinely interested in reasons why.... Fair question. The 'whoah' moment for me was when nothing happened re the colony. Putting all the internal politics etc to one side for a moment (Hamer / Starnes, SC, staff disagreements etc), that project was something very tangible, relatively simple and VERY achievable. It made total sense to bring all the players together into one place, to improve the academy status (when possible), and be able to attract, develope and retain players, or even to make a profit from them which could be reinvested (cf. Brentford). Training facilities are a HUGE thing for players and for staff. They spend most of their footballing lives there, NOT at the stadium. For a club our size it is one of the few projects we can implement without a huge amount of hassle, yet also has a huge impact on our players, our status, our attractiveness and ultimately, hopefully, our performance. It has potential for income generation as well, not just pitch and facilities hire, but also events and even in selling on players. It's a step to say, yes, we are doing stuff, yes we can get things done, yes we can manage projects, yes we are good businessmen, yes we are good leaders, yes we can all work as a team, yes we can see the future and (sad one) yes we can keep our promise to one of the best managers we ever had (and yes, fair play, I admit he did go haywire in the last 12 months...although a lot of that was his emotions at being lied to) Other clubs have achieved it. We haven't. We didn't even get close. We bought some land and then... Well. To suggest that Cribbs is ok is laughable. GC was clearly in the first fruits of his long awaited first managerial job when he strangely said it was fine. And how ironic it was that within one year the lack of decent facilities and the lack of ambition was part of his reason for leaving.
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Post by mehewmagic on Jan 18, 2020 23:03:48 GMT
Which is not reflected in the posts, all a bit odd, and how can so many posters be "undecided" but none post on here to say why they can't decide? I voted a no, now I want to change it to get out the club asap. i believe you can change vote anytime by just pressing another button.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2020 23:06:07 GMT
I voted a no, now I want to change it to get out the club asap. i believe you can change vote anytime by just pressing another button. You can. Just click on your previous vote to clear the box and then click on your choice.
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Post by gregsy on Jan 18, 2020 23:06:51 GMT
Bunker? Ceaușescu? Hussein? Oakenfold Best oakenfold tweek ever....
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2020 23:19:36 GMT
There's been some good considered responses to my post and some fair and valid points - the training ground being piecemeal developed and comments re the training ground generally being the most that resonate with me as that does really seem to be the opportunity staring us in the face that were not taking....
Some other comments are more unsubstantiated and just common angry name calling which I think is being driven by frustrations on their tenure not meeting individuals perceptions of how it should be whether those perceptions are realistic or not.....
I'm still in the camp that I think they are doing 'ok' - there is much that could be improved but I've seen my club under much more difficult circumstances and worse tenures in my mind so I'm still OK with them running the club..... for now at least......
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Post by Jomo on Jan 19, 2020 0:21:19 GMT
Perhaps and that could be the reason. But that was what I was saying in my first post wasn’t it? It appears to be a “toy” to amuse Wael with no serious intent to provide what we needed. But I still think it’s bizarre that anyone would do that because they are in a hole now with the equity if the Mem rapidly disappearing and they dont seem to have a plan hence I think it is bizarre. My dad never would never have done that, the nearest to that I got was a subbuteo team at Christmas! 😉 UTG! Hahaha! Yeah I guess that’s literally it: the Jordanian version of a subbuteo set for Christmas! Ah I see what you mean now. The logical explanation, to my mind, is that either the family didn’t do their due diligence (not just on Rovers but in general about the costs of owning a lower league football club) or Wael sold them a fantasy of how it would play out long term. Developing players and selling them on for big profit etc. He certainly talked big about an academy so that lends credence to the proposition that Wael was heavily invested in fantasy rather than reality and that having such a costly academy their focus long term was on sustainability through youth. I believe the training ground was canned after they all realised the *actual* costs and it all snowballed from there. Initially Wael was allowed to use some of the equity to support Clarke’s vision for Rovers and it’s clear that Clarke spent heavily beyond our means. Since DC left it’s been a gradual cost cutting exercise as the family have realised it’s all getting out of control and they just can’t afford us. So in summary I think it’s a fair supposition that the motive was for Wael to have his own football team to Lord it over and the reasoning was that it wouldn’t cost the family much money: they could finance the team and build an academy on a budget. All total fantasy and then, belatedly, the reality has hit home and they now need to get out whilst recouping their outlay. This is the conclusion I also came to. Who knows if it's right but it certainly seems that way. If it is indeed right then it really is an embarrassment for them, but at our expense. Due diligence is a must in business, and to state the words "category 2 academy" without knowing the detailed costs involved, or to purchase a football club at all without knowing the costs involved, just beggars belief at the level of incompetence. Nice man or not, it is inexcusable. That being said, I don't blame them for not spending what they don't have. It's sensible after their initial reckless purchase of the club, and there are many many football club owners that are reckless and irresponsible in their spending. Trouble is, without one of those ourselves, then we really are doomed to mediocrity at best indefinitely. That coupled with our god awful form at the moment really does make for depressing times as a Gashead. Seeing those red f**kers continue their playoff challenge in the Championship and seeing Bristol Sport advertised all over the City just rubs salt into the wounds.
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pirate
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Post by pirate on Jan 19, 2020 0:25:00 GMT
Can we cut the 'nice man' bullshit as in reality 99% of us don't really know the bloke only the image he tries to portray. Judge him on his performance as custodian of the football club and it's pretty abysmal.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2020 0:26:43 GMT
Hahaha! Yeah I guess that’s literally it: the Jordanian version of a subbuteo set for Christmas! Ah I see what you mean now. The logical explanation, to my mind, is that either the family didn’t do their due diligence (not just on Rovers but in general about the costs of owning a lower league football club) or Wael sold them a fantasy of how it would play out long term. Developing players and selling them on for big profit etc. He certainly talked big about an academy so that lends credence to the proposition that Wael was heavily invested in fantasy rather than reality and that having such a costly academy their focus long term was on sustainability through youth. I believe the training ground was canned after they all realised the *actual* costs and it all snowballed from there. Initially Wael was allowed to use some of the equity to support Clarke’s vision for Rovers and it’s clear that Clarke spent heavily beyond our means. Since DC left it’s been a gradual cost cutting exercise as the family have realised it’s all getting out of control and they just can’t afford us. So in summary I think it’s a fair supposition that the motive was for Wael to have his own football team to Lord it over and the reasoning was that it wouldn’t cost the family much money: they could finance the team and build an academy on a budget. All total fantasy and then, belatedly, the reality has hit home and they now need to get out whilst recouping their outlay. This is the conclusion I also came to. Who knows if it's right but it certainly seems that way. If it is indeed right then it really is an embarrassment for them, but at our expense. Due diligence is a must in business, and to state the words "category 2 academy" without knowing the detailed costs involved, or to purchase a football club at all without knowing the costs involved, just beggars belief at the level of incompetence. Nice man or not, it is inexcusable. That being said, I don't blame them for not spending what they don't have. It's sensible after their initial reckless purchase of the club, and there are many many football club owners that are reckless and irresponsible in their spending. Trouble is, without one of those ourselves, then we really are doomed to mediocrity at best indefinitely. That coupled with our god awful form at the moment really does make for depressing times as a Gashead. Seeing those red f**kers continue their playoff challenge in the Championship and seeing Bristol Sport advertised all over the City just rubs salt into the wounds. Bloody right it’s sensible. If they continued spending it wouldn’t be their money anyway- it would all go on our tab that we have to settle up when they decide to leave. The club can’t afford to have anymore stuff ‘on tick’ and needs to bring the debt down. That means for the foreseeable future loans of untried youth players and the squad run on a shoestring to go with our pre-historic facilities. The big question now is not “what.’s happening with the fruit market” but the far more urgent “how long will they service the debt?” They will soon be spending over and above the equity and risking that they won’t get that money back. I dread to think how that is going to play out for the club.
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Jan 19, 2020 4:11:27 GMT
Ok after skip reading some posts here very valid on either side, I've ticked 'yes' much like I've lent my vote.
I base it on:
I genuinely think it's an improvement on Higgs.
We are probably (no scientific evidence) historically average where we should be in league position (upper mid table 3rd division).
We are in management transition.
I'm trying to resist the urge to be negative because of on pitch form and lack of leadership.
When I started watching Rovers we weren't The Gas, we were Rovers or The Pirates. I can't remember having a close affinity with the Board (capital "B") or it meaning anything detrimental if you didn't. So dignitaries of the club being silent or very little pr media coverage was default position. I understand times have changed.
I live in hope rather than expectation, and until a better option comes along or Wael grossly offends, it's a begrudging yes from me.
Not perfect, would love so much more, but understand it could be far far worse..
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2020 8:10:17 GMT
Ok after skip reading some posts here very valid on either side, I've ticked 'yes' much like I've lent my vote. I base it on: I genuinely think it's an improvement on Higgs. We are probably (no scientific evidence) historically average where we should be in league position (upper mid table 3rd division). We are in management transition. I'm trying to resist the urge to be negative because of on pitch form and lack of leadership. When I started watching Rovers we weren't The Gas, we were Rovers or The Pirates. I can't remember having a close affinity with the Board (capital "B") or it meaning anything detrimental if you didn't. So dignitaries of the club being silent or very little pr media coverage was default position. I understand times have changed. I live in hope rather than expectation, and until a better option comes along or Wael grossly offends, it's a begrudging yes from me. Not perfect, would love so much more, but understand it could be far far worse.. Very well put...... that is kinda where I'm at withe it all too.....
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2020 9:52:34 GMT
Not having a pop here but can you be sure that Wael holding a percentage is what’s stopping anything happening? Sounds like another “forum fact” Ask him and report back to us.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2020 13:17:03 GMT
Anybody changed their mind after this weekend? Do you see it now?
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Post by baggins on Jan 19, 2020 13:38:39 GMT
Anybody changed their mind after this weekend? Do you see it now? Not really. We lost. Away. To the Top Club in the League. Much though I'd like to blame Wael for that, I'm struggling.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2020 13:40:33 GMT
Ok after skip reading some posts here very valid on either side, I've ticked 'yes' much like I've lent my vote. I base it on: I genuinely think it's an improvement on Higgs. We are probably (no scientific evidence) historically average where we should be in league position (upper mid table 3rd division). We are in management transition. I'm trying to resist the urge to be negative because of on pitch form and lack of leadership. When I started watching Rovers we weren't The Gas, we were Rovers or The Pirates. I can't remember having a close affinity with the Board (capital "B") or it meaning anything detrimental if you didn't. So dignitaries of the club being silent or very little pr media coverage was default position. I understand times have changed. I live in hope rather than expectation, and until a better option comes along or Wael grossly offends, it's a begrudging yes from me. Not perfect, would love so much more, but understand it could be far far worse.. An improvement on Higgs...have you seen the size of the debt?! We’re being run like bloody Lehman Brothers and we all know what happened to them!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2020 13:47:54 GMT
Anybody changed their mind after this weekend? Do you see it now? Not really. We lost. Away. To the Top Club in the League. Much though I'd like to blame Wael for that, I'm struggling. was thinking more Martyn starnes! Do you only see the footballing side of things?
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Post by baggins on Jan 19, 2020 13:50:24 GMT
Not really. We lost. Away. To the Top Club in the League. Much though I'd like to blame Wael for that, I'm struggling. was thinking more Martyn starnes! Do you only see the footballing side of things? Yep. That's why I go and watch them.
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Jan 19, 2020 15:02:39 GMT
Ok after skip reading some posts here very valid on either side, I've ticked 'yes' much like I've lent my vote. I base it on: I genuinely think it's an improvement on Higgs. We are probably (no scientific evidence) historically average where we should be in league position (upper mid table 3rd division). We are in management transition. I'm trying to resist the urge to be negative because of on pitch form and lack of leadership. When I started watching Rovers we weren't The Gas, we were Rovers or The Pirates. I can't remember having a close affinity with the Board (capital "B") or it meaning anything detrimental if you didn't. So dignitaries of the club being silent or very little pr media coverage was default position. I understand times have changed. I live in hope rather than expectation, and until a better option comes along or Wael grossly offends, it's a begrudging yes from me. Not perfect, would love so much more, but understand it could be far far worse.. An improvement on Higgs...have you seen the size of the debt?! We’re being run like bloody Lehman Brothers and we all know what happened to them! Ah but is anything watertight?! Can't believe majority prefer Higgs tenure ship where he steered us into non league and admin.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2020 15:23:20 GMT
An improvement on Higgs...have you seen the size of the debt?! We’re being run like bloody Lehman Brothers and we all know what happened to them! Ah but is anything watertight?! Can't believe majority prefer Higgs tenure ship where he steered us into non league and admin. *ahem* I believe admin has become a Gaschat fact. And Higgs steered us back out and on to a promotion that Wael took credit for, delighting in being carried down Gloucester Road by fans like some sort of saviour. The momentum built up under Higgs was casually discarded by the current mob.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2020 15:26:24 GMT
In all seriousness if you gave me the choice of going back to Higgs last days compared to now I’d take it because we had potential then. A great bargain- Wael smugly told us so himself. Massive potential with the stadium plans on the table.
What have we got now? Anyone want to buy a tinpot club with a fox sh** ridden training ground that they don’t even own for 17 million? Anyone? Anyone?!?!
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Jan 19, 2020 15:32:46 GMT
"In all seriousness if you gave me the choice of going back to Higgs last days compared to now I’d take it because we had potential then."
In all seriousness, I'm going to agree to disagree with you.
To me, Higgs was a disaster. The rest remains to be seen...
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