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Post by daniel300380 on Apr 29, 2020 10:44:45 GMT
Everyone can see that we don't have the player's to play the style of football Garner wants. To be fair, a manager shouldn't be trying to play in a way that it's obvious his players aren't capable of. That is true at first. He did keep things the same at first, but we had injuries to key player's that were vital to the system and others were playing when they needed a rest or were carrying injuries. So then we had nothing to play for. So if you can't change the style then, when can you?? It gave him time to see who can play his way. Some players might be able to, but it will take them time to adjust etc. Obviously not comparing them as Garner could turn out to be rubbish long term. But compared to now Klopp did awful when he first took over. It took time for the player's to adapt and he had to bring in player's to suit his system. They look a completely different outfit now. The principal is the same. Looking at the long term. In the short term we will always going to struggle, but hopefully we will be stronger next season for it. We could have stayed the same once we had player's back and finished higher winning more games. But then when he changed it in the summer, we would have had the bad spell at the start of next season. While we adjusted then. We are now brining player's in that could be good for us next season playing his way. Player's with potential who we could potentially make a profit on. Young player's. It's a risky strategy, if they fail to make it, then next season we will probably go down. But if they do settle in and make it, we could have a good season and make a profit in the future. That's how a lot of other clubs reduce thier losses every season. You can see we now have a long term plan. Whether it works or not, is still highly debatable!
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Post by daniel300380 on Apr 29, 2020 10:51:39 GMT
To be fair, a manager shouldn't be trying to play in a way that it's obvious his players aren't capable of. But they proved for TC's 600th game v Sunderland they could, or at least perform to a style which won games, compare that to the previous game at Southend and you really have to wonder what BG does in training. They raised thier games, for a big game. Player's do that all the time, which is why we love football and why we get so many cup shocks etc in England. Won't judge him on a win, any more than a defeat. Personally I'm willing to wait until next season, to see how we do under his squad, playing the way he wants. Be interesting to see how player's come back. Especially player's like Barrett. Will player's take the time to sort out thier fitness out and come back raring to go. Or will they sit around eating poorly and getting more unfit.
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Post by chewbacca on Apr 29, 2020 11:12:58 GMT
Crap Managers since 2000 Francis v2 W% 29.032 - PPG 1.194 Thompson W% 29.79 - PPG 1.11 Graydon W% 27.2 - PPG 1.086 Atkins W% 30.9 - PPG 1.309 Penney W% 15.38 - PPG 0.615 Buckle W% 27.586 - PPG 1.034 McGhee W% 26.7 - PPG 1.067 Ward v2 W% 34.78 - PPG 1.348 Garner W% 12.5 - PPG 0.688 Edit: Permanent appointments however Garry Thomson's figure has his 23 game spell as Caretaker including in his overall stats. Does that include the games in the middle, when he wasn't even in charge?? He's certainly had a bad start, however we don't have the squad for his style of play. Next season is the time to judge him. It includes all the games he was employed as manager of Bristol Rovers Football Club. He also signed 7 players in January, so not having a squad for his "style of play" doesn't really cut it. He took over a team in fourth.
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Post by daniel300380 on Apr 29, 2020 11:41:15 GMT
Does that include the games in the middle, when he wasn't even in charge?? He's certainly had a bad start, however we don't have the squad for his style of play. Next season is the time to judge him. It includes all the games he was employed as manager of Bristol Rovers Football Club. He also signed 7 players in January, so not having a squad for his "style of play" doesn't really cut it. He took over a team in fourth. You're not serious?? He signed some young cheap player's as the budget was already tied up 😂. Hardly his squad now. Your saying it as if you replaced all the key experienced players.
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Post by daniel300380 on Apr 29, 2020 11:46:11 GMT
Does that include the games in the middle, when he wasn't even in charge?? He's certainly had a bad start, however we don't have the squad for his style of play. Next season is the time to judge him. It includes all the games he was employed as manager of Bristol Rovers Football Club. He also signed 7 players in January, so not having a squad for his "style of play" doesn't really cut it. He took over a team in fourth. No doubt if we won the games when he was absent, you wouldn't be including them and you would be using that against him.
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Post by Gassy on Apr 29, 2020 11:59:59 GMT
Who’d have thought that after Sunderland we wouldn’t pick up another point and Garner would still be here?
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Post by chewbacca on Apr 29, 2020 12:02:43 GMT
It includes all the games he was employed as manager of Bristol Rovers Football Club. He also signed 7 players in January, so not having a squad for his "style of play" doesn't really cut it. He took over a team in fourth. You're not serious?? He signed some young cheap player's as the budget was already tied up 😂. Hardly his squad now. Your saying it as if you replaced all the key experienced players. Thing is, they've been crap on the whole. He did sign them.
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Post by chewbacca on Apr 29, 2020 12:04:52 GMT
It includes all the games he was employed as manager of Bristol Rovers Football Club. He also signed 7 players in January, so not having a squad for his "style of play" doesn't really cut it. He took over a team in fourth. No doubt if we won the games when he was absent, you wouldn't be including them and you would be using that against him. We didn't win them.
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Post by Topper Gas on Apr 29, 2020 12:16:30 GMT
It includes all the games he was employed as manager of Bristol Rovers Football Club. He also signed 7 players in January, so not having a squad for his "style of play" doesn't really cut it. He took over a team in fourth. You're not serious?? He signed some young cheap player's as the budget was already tied up 😂. Hardly his squad now. Your saying it as if you replaced all the key experienced players. Surely it was BG's choice to sign 7 "cheap" players than 3 or 4 reasonably priced players? I sensed even before CV19 it would have been more of the same this summer post CV19 that's now virtually guaranteed, so unless the likes of OC & Sercs take big pay cuts in order to stay they'll just be replace with more ex Academy players.
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Post by chewbacca on Apr 29, 2020 12:17:47 GMT
You're not serious?? He signed some young cheap player's as the budget was already tied up 😂. Hardly his squad now. Your saying it as if you replaced all the key experienced players. Surely it was BG's choice to sign 7 "cheap" players than 3 or 4 reasonably priced players? I sensed even before CV19 it would have been more of the same this summer post CV19 that's now virtually guaranteed, so unless the likes of OC & Sercs take big pay cuts in order to stay they'll just be replace with more ex Academy players. No, he had no choice at all.
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Post by gasandelectricity on Apr 29, 2020 12:50:55 GMT
You're not serious?? He signed some young cheap player's as the budget was already tied up 😂. Hardly his squad now. Your saying it as if you replaced all the key experienced players. Surely it was BG's choice to sign 7 "cheap" players than 3 or 4 reasonably priced players? I sensed even before CV19 it would have been more of the same this summer post CV19 that's now virtually guaranteed, so unless the likes of OC & Sercs take big pay cuts in order to stay they'll just be replace with more ex Academy players. Who knows, all clubs will be in the same boat as will the players so silly wages are likely to drop down to more sensible levels.
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Post by gasandelectricity on Apr 29, 2020 12:55:57 GMT
Everyone can see that we don't have the player's to play the style of football Garner wants. To be fair, a manager shouldn't be trying to play in a way that it's obvious his players aren't capable of. Quite right, no excuse. In fact it’s an even bigger mark against his name. Personally if he was willingly sacrificing our season, when we had possibly our best chance in 20 years at promotion, in the name of a vanity project it makes me all the more annoyed at the bloke. Personally I wouldn’t credit him with that and think it’s more likely that he’s just clueless. At least we’re not panicking over the season being cancelled and having said chance taken away from us that way I guess. Amazed it hasn’t happened that would be Rovers all over for that to happen to us.
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Post by spiess1 on Apr 29, 2020 13:22:37 GMT
You all know why he was appointed, and with what goals in mind, of course? Of course you do....just like I do. Plenty fans whingeing and staying away cos of the style that got us to 4th. Maybe, just maybe, the owners took notice and decided to set the ship off on another heading?
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Post by daniel300380 on Apr 29, 2020 13:24:54 GMT
No doubt if we won the games when he was absent, you wouldn't be including them and you would be using that against him. We didn't win them. Not really the point though is it. You can't count games when he's not in charge for the game.
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Post by daniel300380 on Apr 29, 2020 13:29:25 GMT
You're not serious?? He signed some young cheap player's as the budget was already tied up 😂. Hardly his squad now. Your saying it as if you replaced all the key experienced players. Surely it was BG's choice to sign 7 "cheap" players than 3 or 4 reasonably priced players? I sensed even before CV19 it would have been more of the same this summer post CV19 that's now virtually guaranteed, so unless the likes of OC & Sercs take big pay cuts in order to stay they'll just be replace with more ex Academy players. Don't think we are paying towards the loan player's wages and the others will be on peanut's as they were young player's who have not played. We wouldn't have got 3 or 4 league 1 player's for that. It's not a comparison, the budget was used up. We moved a few on, but only part of thier wages were being paid.
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Post by gasandelectricity on Apr 29, 2020 14:14:55 GMT
You all know why he was appointed, and with what goals in mind, of course? Of course you do....just like I do. Plenty fans whingeing and staying away cos of the style that got us to 4th. Maybe, just maybe, the owners took notice and decided to set the ship off on another heading? But has it worked? (Stats say no, crowd numbers say no, probably will continue) At what cost? For the record I wasn’t whingeing under GC I was quite enjoying our rise. The strategy by the club may have been sound but the execution by the manager has been poor. From my perspective, based on results and his actions on the sidelines, he doesn’t demonstrate the qualities of a good manager. Those like his two predecessors who could man manage the squad into a half time turnaround. All people have to point to after however many games (punching towards if not over 20) is one convincing win against Sunderland. An anomaly. This is from a squad which might not have been pretty but we’re getting results when he took over.
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Post by gasandelectricity on Apr 29, 2020 14:17:19 GMT
Not really the point though is it. You can't count games when he's not in charge for the game. Tricky. I can see it both ways, he set the agenda and philosophy for how he wanted us to play. He was still directing it if not directly. Either way, still not good enough after around 15 games even if you exclude those he wasn’t in charge for.
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Post by chewbacca on Apr 29, 2020 14:48:33 GMT
Not really the point though is it. You can't count games when he's not in charge for the game. Tricky. I can see it both ways, he set the agenda and philosophy for how he wanted us to play. He was still directing it if not directly. Either way, still not good enough after around 15 games even if you exclude those he wasn’t in charge for. I look forward to the excuses after this is all over "I know he's won none of the first five games back, but it's hard getting your style of play over during a pandemic", "Yeah, he's won no games this season but the new players need to bond", "I'd give him to the January window to allow him to make the team his own", "Ok, we've not won in 26 games but the January window is incredibly hard to sign the right players".
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Post by gasandelectricity on Apr 29, 2020 16:02:03 GMT
Tricky. I can see it both ways, he set the agenda and philosophy for how he wanted us to play. He was still directing it if not directly. Either way, still not good enough after around 15 games even if you exclude those he wasn’t in charge for. I look forward to the excuses after this is all over "I know he's won none of the first five games back, but it's hard getting your style of play over during a pandemic", "Yeah, he's won no games this season but the new players need to bond", "I'd give him to the January window to allow him to make the team his own", "Ok, we've not won in 26 games but the January window is incredibly hard to sign the right players". Quite what has won this loyalty I do not know. Our fans were on GCs back constantly yet a bloke who can’t buy a win gets the sort of loyalty DC received.
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Post by Gas_Quarters on Apr 29, 2020 16:02:35 GMT
You all know why he was appointed, and with what goals in mind, of course? Of course you do....just like I do. Plenty fans whingeing and staying away cos of the style that got us to 4th. Maybe, just maybe, the owners took notice and decided to set the ship off on another heading? But has it worked? (Stats say no, crowd numbers say no, probably will continue) At what cost? For the record I wasn’t whingeing under GC I was quite enjoying our rise. The strategy by the club may have been sound but the execution by the manager has been poor. From my perspective, based on results and his actions on the sidelines, he doesn’t demonstrate the qualities of a good manager. Those like his two predecessors who could man manage the squad into a half time turnaround. All people have to point to after however many games (punching towards if not over 20) is one convincing win against Sunderland. An anomaly. This is from a squad which might not have been pretty but we’re getting results when he took over. I think it’s difficult to play good attractive football and be at the top end of the league unless you’ve got one of the biggest budgets to bring in the best players for that level. If you look at managers, even in the top 2 levels, that have been the most successful in terms of overachieveing for size of club, size of budget and quality of players they can attract, then you find managers who don’t play pretty football, eg. Allardyce, Dyche, Warnock, Pulis (for a spell), McCarthy etc. Any of the other clubs that get to the top of the table playing pretty football normally do so because, as I said previously, they have the biggest budgets to attract the best players for that level. Wilder at Sheff Utd is a recent exception to the rule, the job he’s done is nothing short of astonishing. Personally, I’d rather results with ugly football than pretty football without results. Looking at the crowds under GC, other people obviously don’t agree. I always found it baffling that Everton fans wanted rid of Allardyce, he took over them in December in 13th and they finished the season in 8th, as far as I was concerned as an onlooking neutral he’d done a great job. They parted company because fans weren’t happy with the style of football. My point is, until we get one of the biggest budgets in the league, I don’t think we’re going to get both attractive football and good results, I think we’ll have to settle for one or the other.
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