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Post by WeAreTheGas on Oct 19, 2020 9:07:52 GMT
It will soon be easier to count the number of players who haven’t been scapegoated this season than those that have. Mad how you can’t discuss the pros and cons of a new signing’s early performances without the ‘scapegoat’ card being thrown out. What are we even all doing on here if we can’t talk about individual performances in a balanced way like everyone on this thread has done so far?
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Ehmer
Oct 19, 2020 9:18:29 GMT
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Oct 19, 2020 9:18:29 GMT
Agree with o p.
One of the problems of not being allowed to attend is you can't see what players do off the ball. It's a great vantage point, the East Stand for this...
So we have to give him some leeway with regards to organising defences and captain duties as we just don't know.
I think Ehmer firm has been the poorest out if the defence from what I can see, but we are not seeing the whole picture so jury out for me.
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Post by wilmslowgas on Oct 19, 2020 9:22:32 GMT
To date I think he has been solid but not quite as good as hoped. This is easy to understand as some players take longer than others to settle into a new club. Let's judge him after a dozen games. In a back 3 his best position is in the middle.
I'm saddened by the development of Kilgour. Last season, under the guidance of Craig, he was playing really well and many posters were predicting a prosperous Championship or even Premiership future for him. Now he is little more than a squad player.
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Ehmer
Oct 19, 2020 9:47:55 GMT
Post by neilv93 on Oct 19, 2020 9:47:55 GMT
Not harsh at all but it obviously is still 'early doors'. I think we just hold him to a higher standard given his pedigree, he's skipper and the clamour amongst us when he signed - compared to the underwhelm we displayed upon Baldwin's announcement (he, btw, has shut those doubters up so far) and Harries was signed a while ago and has barely played until this season.
Ehmer is a good solid L1 defender and the type of CB you want when facing the JCH's of this division IMO (although he definitely does give away too many 'silly' fouls).
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Deleted
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Ehmer
Oct 19, 2020 9:55:11 GMT
Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2020 9:55:11 GMT
It will soon be easier to count the number of players who haven’t been scapegoated this season than those that have. Mad how you can’t discuss the pros and cons of a new signing’s early performances without the ‘scapegoat’ card being thrown out. What are we even all doing on here if we can’t talk about individual performances in a balanced way like everyone on this thread has done so far? Don’t disagree. Trouble is after every match there are one or two players who may not have performed well in that particular game and then get the ‘scapegoat’ treatment and deemed useless signings. Just looking at the defence for example. Baldwin got slaughtered despite hardly playing and when he did get 90 minutes he was in an alien position of centre mid and crucified on the back of it. Harries is looking a really good player and was highly thought of by his former club, a couple of less than perfect performances and he was considered no good either, should have kept Mayo or Craig...... If there is a considered debate after giving players a decent number of games then fair enough. It just seems to me that every match the worst performer is highlighted and abilities questioned, gets written off etc. It probably happens with most clubs fan bases to be fair!
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Ehmer
Oct 19, 2020 9:56:08 GMT
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Westy likes this
Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2020 9:56:08 GMT
To date I think he has been solid but not quite as good as hoped. This is easy to understand as some players take longer than others to settle into a new club. Let's judge him after a dozen games. In a back 3 his best position is in the middle. I'm saddened by the development of Kilgour. Last season, under the guidance of Craig, he was playing really well and many posters were predicting a prosperous Championship or even Premiership future for him. Now he is little more than a squad player. Considering the club is all about developing saleable assets it is somewhat surprising they seem to have allowed one to go backwards so dramatically. Also shows how tenuous the career of a footballer can be. One week you are being brought along by your team mates and earning rave reviews and thinking of a career at the top of the game, the next a new manager has come in, you’re no longer getting support in terms of expert guidance and you’ve been relegated to the bench and your upward trajectory looks in doubt. Poor sod.
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Ehmer
Oct 19, 2020 9:57:04 GMT
Post by axegas on Oct 19, 2020 9:57:04 GMT
Not harsh at all but it obviously is still 'early doors'. I think we just hold him to a higher standard given his pedigree, he's skipper and the clamour amongst us when he signed - compared to the underwhelm we displayed upon Baldwin's announcement (he, btw, has shut those doubters up so far) and Harries was signed a while ago and has barely played until this season. Ehmer is a good solid L1 defender and the type of CB you want when facing the JCH's of this division IMO (although he definitely does give away too many 'silly' fouls). I'm still not convinced with Baldwin if I'm honest, having seen every game he's played in so far. I've got some doubts about his distribution and aerial ability, would like to see Kilgour given another chance at some point in his place as I know he had a poor start to the season but he proved last season he can be a top defender when he's on his game.
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Ehmer
Oct 19, 2020 10:16:04 GMT
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Post by WeAreTheGas on Oct 19, 2020 10:16:04 GMT
Mad how you can’t discuss the pros and cons of a new signing’s early performances without the ‘scapegoat’ card being thrown out. What are we even all doing on here if we can’t talk about individual performances in a balanced way like everyone on this thread has done so far? Don’t disagree. Trouble is after every match there are one or two players who may not have performed well in that particular game and then get the ‘scapegoat’ treatment and deemed useless signings. Just looking at the defence for example. Baldwin got slaughtered despite hardly playing and when he did get 90 minutes he was in an alien position of centre mid and crucified on the back of it. Harries is looking a really good player and was highly thought of by his former club, a couple of less than perfect performances and he was considered no good either, should have kept Mayo or Craig...... If there is a considered debate after giving players a decent number of games then fair enough. It just seems to me that every match the worst performer is highlighted and abilities questioned, gets written off etc. It probably happens with most clubs fan bases to be fair! I don’t disagree with any of that, but I think there’s a big difference between what you’re describing there & what’s happening on this thread - which is why I found this thread an odd place for your ‘scapegoat’ comment.
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Deleted
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Ehmer
Oct 19, 2020 10:39:39 GMT
Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2020 10:39:39 GMT
Don’t disagree. Trouble is after every match there are one or two players who may not have performed well in that particular game and then get the ‘scapegoat’ treatment and deemed useless signings. Just looking at the defence for example. Baldwin got slaughtered despite hardly playing and when he did get 90 minutes he was in an alien position of centre mid and crucified on the back of it. Harries is looking a really good player and was highly thought of by his former club, a couple of less than perfect performances and he was considered no good either, should have kept Mayo or Craig...... If there is a considered debate after giving players a decent number of games then fair enough. It just seems to me that every match the worst performer is highlighted and abilities questioned, gets written off etc. It probably happens with most clubs fan bases to be fair! I don’t disagree with any of that, but I think there’s a big difference between what you’re describing there & what’s happening on this thread - which is why I found this thread an odd place for your ‘scapegoat’ comment. Maybe the wrong thread to vent my frustration. I just don’t understand why there is this continual cycle of us fans having to pick an individual for criticism (some do this far more aggressively than others btw!) and then move on to the next one a week or two later. Someone like Bennett who continually under performed over a long period deserves criticism but we seem to be having a shortening tolerance for any incoming players, many of whom get written off before they’ve even set foot on a pitch in the quarters. Tutonda underwhelmed many and got some criticism following performances in friendlies and is now “a gem”, “a star in the making”. Others get the same. Might just be me but I prefer to see the players supported for a decent period until we get too critical, perhaps I need to move with the times!
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Ehmer
Oct 19, 2020 10:48:40 GMT
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Post by WeAreTheGas on Oct 19, 2020 10:48:40 GMT
I don’t disagree with any of that, but I think there’s a big difference between what you’re describing there & what’s happening on this thread - which is why I found this thread an odd place for your ‘scapegoat’ comment. Maybe the wrong thread to vent my frustration. I just don’t understand why there is this continual cycle of us fans having to pick an individual for criticism (some do this far more aggressively than others btw!) and then move on to the next one a week or two later. Someone like Bennett who continually under performed over a long period deserves criticism but we seem to be having a shortening tolerance for any incoming players, many of whom get written off before they’ve even set foot on a pitch in the quarters. Tutonda underwhelmed many and got some criticism following performances in friendlies and is now “a gem”, “a star in the making”. Others get the same. Might just be me but I prefer to see the players supported for a decent period until we get too critical, perhaps I need to move with the times! Don’t get me wrong, I share your frustration over football fans being too quick to judge for sure! I think it’s a much wider issue than just with our fanbase though & probably a wider issue than football fans in general - I just think as a society we have less patience now and are quicker to make final judgements on things (I include myself in that too at times, btw!). I think social media has a lot to answer for, but that’s a totally different discussion that I’ll keep off this thread.
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Post by 2nd May 1990 on Oct 19, 2020 10:56:18 GMT
Have i really got to write my “ don’t judge him/them too early” stuff again ? Chill I remember reading the same kind of comments about Tony Craig.
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Marshy
Proper Gas
Posts: 14,129
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Post by Marshy on Oct 19, 2020 11:19:18 GMT
Have i really got to write my “ don’t judge him/them too early” stuff again ? Chill I remember reading the same kind of comments about Tony Craig. Yeah, the first bond film he did was crap!
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Ehmer
Oct 19, 2020 11:25:40 GMT
Post by Wembley_Gas on Oct 19, 2020 11:25:40 GMT
thought Harries was poor yesterday, gave the ball away a lot. That’s quite upbeat and positive for you 😆 at least you can wander down to WSMs home games now and keep tabs on Rovers’ future talent!
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Post by goodnightirene1883 on Oct 19, 2020 11:37:38 GMT
thought Harries was poor yesterday, gave the ball away a lot. Harries 71% pass accuracy (9% down on his performance against Lincoln) - the most passes of every player on the pitch - the most accurate passes of every player on the pitch - 50% of Ariel's won - 100% Tackles won - Highest Clearances of every player on the pitch - Most touches of the ball on Rovers and 2 of every player on the pitch Not sure on the barometer for poor however I personally didn't think he was poor.
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Oct 19, 2020 11:41:01 GMT
thought Harries was poor yesterday, gave the ball away a lot. Harries 71% pass accuracy (9% down on his performance against Lincoln) - the most passes of every player on the pitch - the most accurate passes of every player on the pitch - 50% of Ariel's won - 100% Tackles won - Highest Clearances of every player on the pitch - Most touches of the ball on Rovers and 2 of every player on the pitch Not sure on the barometer for poor however I personally didn't think he was poor. Also 100% on target own goal attempts .
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Post by goodnightirene1883 on Oct 19, 2020 12:04:54 GMT
Harries 71% pass accuracy (9% down on his performance against Lincoln) - the most passes of every player on the pitch - the most accurate passes of every player on the pitch - 50% of Ariel's won - 100% Tackles won - Highest Clearances of every player on the pitch - Most touches of the ball on Rovers and 2 of every player on the pitch Not sure on the barometer for poor however I personally didn't think he was poor. Also 100% on target own goal attempts . Not sure if this is true but I heard that Anssi was THAT bored that he asked Harries to test him...
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Ehmer
Oct 19, 2020 12:19:54 GMT
via mobile
Post by roosty56 on Oct 19, 2020 12:19:54 GMT
Ehmer poor? I don’t think so, Really? those who think he is crap, either A, a wind up merchant, or B, don’t know anything about Football. The man has joined a new club He is playing in a back 3, when most of his career he has played in a back 4 His pass percentage is very high and most of his career not many Players has got the better of him one on one Once he gets used to having 2 other CB’s playing either side of him , the better he will be
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Post by surreygas4 on Oct 19, 2020 12:20:50 GMT
thought Harries was poor yesterday, gave the ball away a lot. Harries 71% pass accuracy (9% down on his performance against Lincoln) - the most passes of every player on the pitch - the most accurate passes of every player on the pitch - 50% of Ariel's won - 100% Tackles won - Highest Clearances of every player on the pitch - Most touches of the ball on Rovers and 2 of every player on the pitch Not sure on the barometer for poor however I personally didn't think he was poor. Interesting stats but they don't always tell the full story. I'll caveat this with admitting it's hard to judge our players without having the luxury of watching them in person - e.g.it's hard to judge what our defenders are doing off the ball due to the single camera setup of iFollow - but I thought he was decent defensively, the OG chance aside (!), but poor in possession. I wonder if some of us bought into the hype about his distribution when he was signed: - 'Speaking about the addition of Cian to his squad, Manager Ben Garner said, "We are delighted to welcome Cian to the club. He is a young, left-footed centre-back with great ability to build the play and strong defensive attributes'
- 'Cian Harries joined the Gas on a permanent deal from Swansea City on deadline day, and Garner was quick to praise the 22-year-old defender, describing him as the best young centre-half he has seen in possession...When Harries was just 18 years old, (Tony) Mowbray rated Harries – who joined the Swans for a significant undisclosed fee in 2017 – as already the best defender technically in League One, but he needed to grow as a man before reaching his potential as a footballer...On the technical side there’s nobody better than this lad in our division'
If it wasn't for the above sorts of comments some of us, myself included, might not be so critical, but I don't think I've seen much evidence so far of him being able to 'build play' or being better than anyone else in the league 'on the technical side'. Not Cian's fault that people said these things about his game of course, and it's early on in his career so he will improve but I don't think we're necessarily wrong to question his distribution as fans having read the comments made about him when he was signed.
I would also add that our midfield perhaps need to show more for the ball to help our back 3 out, otherwise the ball is going to go long and onto the head of the opposition centre half once our back 3 run out patience with passing it amongst themselves.
In terms of these stats, if I think back to the (largely forgettable) game on Saturday, we did spend huge chunks of time in the first half passing the ball across the back in short sideways/backwards passes, so I'm not altogether surprised that the passing accuracy stats look like this...!
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Post by lpgas1 on Oct 20, 2020 11:20:23 GMT
So the game isn't about winning, its not about being exciting, it's about "Stats" f**k me how boring is that
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Post by goodnightirene1883 on Oct 20, 2020 11:26:15 GMT
So the game isn't about winning, its not about being exciting, it's about "Stats" f**k me how boring is that Boring to you, interesting to me. I don't think I said once that the game isn't about winning or being exciting I merely suggested that looking at Cian's stats (to me) indicated that he wasn't poor. Nice input though
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