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Post by yaz on Oct 29, 2020 23:10:02 GMT
Well, that's clear, then. I think you know what I meant?šš It would be interesting to see some data on how many goals, shots and assists Westbrook and Grant have done so far this season? Westbrook for the Hanlan header but he takes virtually all our set pieces so ..... PS I would love to see them shooting and scoring. Rovers shooting over the last few seasons percentage wise is poor by any standard; guaranteed to go over the bar or way wide? But it is L1 as one former Gas striker said to me.š Just seen the thread gaschat.co.uk/post/652996/thread on Shots on Target under BG. Fully backs up what I see week in week out. That's why players like Sercombe, JCH, Rodman, ? were gold dust to us as they had a better percentage of shots on target than others. Overall, our shooting over the last n seasons is abysmal. Our free kicks are dire and do not look as if there has been any pre match practise? Our corners were OK especially when Lines and Sercombe started to whip them in but a lot of times, they never went past the front post? Our throw-ins were laughable; throw, one touch and > 50% we lose it next. But BG is not to blame for this; this was and has been the case for quite a few seasons now.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2020 7:35:51 GMT
A little bit of a slow start but I reckon heāll be playing Championship level within 3 or 4 years. The game is changing and so are Rovers. The blood and thunder, 100mph, flying in to challenges style may still appease many fans but a bit more is needed as we hopefully move up the pyramid. IMO a holding or defensive midfielder is more about positional sense than ferocious tackling these days. I disagree at the present and for the next few years; he is not strong enough to be a defensive midfielder and he is not āaware enoughā of his surroundings. I hope he proves me wrong? I donāt think he will come anywhere near shooting or scoring for us; how many shots has he had so far this season? We will be lucky if he scores 2 or more this season. I think he will prove you wrong. Heās done pretty well so far in a team that letās be fair has struggled on the most part so far this season. The criticism is a bit unfair, heās 21, inexperienced and spent most of his development years as a defender I believe before Plymouth moved him into midfield - feel free to correct me on that if Iām wrong. Iāve no idea why his shooting prowess or scoring are being used as another stick to beat him with. Heās a defender converted into a defensive midfielder. How many goals did Claude Makelele (the best defensive midfielder in the world for years) score?
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Post by Gas-Ed on Oct 30, 2020 8:31:36 GMT
Harsh in my opinion. Iāve seen him do a lot of chasing since he joined us and he does get stuck in at times. Iād say itās on the ball where he needs to improve rather than off it. Midfielders, in my view, should be the best controllers and passers of the ball as they form the creative hub. Not defenders and most forwards! He plays in the middle. If he is not good on the ball, why is he there? Him and Westbrook are very ineffectual at stopping opposing attacks. Our midfield must be one of the weakest in L1 / L2 so far this season? Letās see how many goals this season our midfield score in supporting our forwards? Way below average in L1? Unless our midfield changes radically. You donāt have to be the best passer of the ball to play in midfield at this level, providing you can do the simple things, i.e. win the ball back and play it simple to a teammate who is more creative. As long as said player is playing alongside someone who can make things happen, there shouldnāt be a problem. Our midfield still doesnāt seem quite right though. Grant isnt doing those simple things often enough and Westbrooke hasnāt been the creative force I was hoping for. I would like us to get the ball forward a bit quicker as the tempo of our football in our own half is slow and we donāt seem to be able to get Mccormick/Otzumer in the game high enough up the pitch to do some damage.
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Post by yaz on Oct 30, 2020 12:52:05 GMT
I disagree at the present and for the next few years; he is not strong enough to be a defensive midfielder and he is not āaware enoughā of his surroundings. I hope he proves me wrong? I donāt think he will come anywhere near shooting or scoring for us; how many shots has he had so far this season? We will be lucky if he scores 2 or more this season. I think he will prove you wrong. Heās done pretty well so far in a team that letās be fair has struggled on the most part so far this season. The criticism is a bit unfair, heās 21, inexperienced and spent most of his development years as a defender I believe before Plymouth moved him into midfield - feel free to correct me on that if Iām wrong. Iāve no idea why his shooting prowess or scoring are being used as another stick to beat him with. Heās a defender converted into a defensive midfielder. How many goals did Claude Makelele (the best defensive midfielder in the world for years) score?Ā I agree that the criticism is harsh which is very unlike me when discussing individuals? Based on what I have seen of him so far, I find it very difficult to understand why some players are starting each match especially in midfield where we have so many players to choose from. Inexperience can never be an excuse week in week out; also being played out of position does not make sense especially when we have signed so many midfielders. Maybe injuries to them may be a factor? Our shots on target statistics have been terrible for a number of seasons and needs improving. We also need more players prepared to take more shots. Midfielders are expected to create and score goals; goals should come from everywhere. Itās not another stick to beat someone with. If a player is not performing well enough then he should be given a break; Kilgour had some early disappointing performances, some because he was played badly out of position and now is no longer in the starting team. He was a stalwart for us last season? At the end, it comes down to management, and this manager so far does not inspire much confidence especially where (immediate) change is required ie. player positions and formations, timings and position substitutes to get / stay ahead of the game, etc. Substitutes are not being made early enough and in the right places to impact upon the game or to stop the opponents? I hope I am very wrong but I suspect we are a few years away yet from these midfielders reaching the standards of Lines, Clarke, Sercombe, etc. And they had their off days as well? PS Whatās the odds one of them scores next match?!!!! š
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Post by Topper Gas on Oct 30, 2020 14:03:30 GMT
Before Tuesday night's game we were on a decent run of form, apart from dropping McM for Oztumer I can't recall many posters suggesting any more changes need to be made? I've no idea how fit Ozt is at present, is he up to 90 mins, or even 65/70 mins, if not, starting with McM makes sense. The big issue on Tuesday was how slow BG was in changing things around, he seems to always want to stick to 3-5-2 and make his first sub after we coincide a goal not before we do.
Given Liddle wasn't apparently up to speed then apart from the normally poor Upson, I can't see who could replace Grant in the starting 11 anyway?
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Oct 30, 2020 14:26:50 GMT
Before Tuesday night's game we were on a decent run of form, apart from dropping McM for Oztumer I can't recall many posters suggesting any more changes need to be made? I've no idea how fit Ozt is at present, is he up to 90 mins, or even 65/70 mins, if not, starting with McM makes sense. The big issue on Tuesday was how slow BG was in changing things around, he seems to always want to stick to 3-5-2 and make his first sub after we coincide a goal not before we do. Given Liddle wasn't apparently up to speed then apart from the normally poor Upson, I can't see who could replace Grant in the starting 11 anyway? Ogogo should have. From what I've seen I dont rate Grant at all. Hope he proves me wrong.
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Post by Topper Gas on Oct 30, 2020 15:29:02 GMT
I doubt any of us will ever know why Ogogo was shown the door, the fact he's had to drop down to the National League is odd. Although not sure Ogogo ever played the holding CM role he seemed to be employed higher up the pitch.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2020 16:04:00 GMT
His anticipation seems poor. A couple of times against Hull he lost the ball because he misjudged a pass or how a loose ball was breaking to him.
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Post by socrates on Oct 30, 2020 20:02:30 GMT
Before Tuesday night's game we were on a decent run of form, apart from dropping McM for Oztumer I can't recall many posters suggesting any more changes need to be made? I've no idea how fit Ozt is at present, is he up to 90 mins, or even 65/70 mins, if not, starting with McM makes sense. The big issue on Tuesday was how slow BG was in changing things around, he seems to always want to stick to 3-5-2 and make his first sub after we coincide a goal not before we do. Given Liddle wasn't apparently up to speed then apart from the normally poor Upson, I can't see who could replace Grant in the starting 11 anyway? Ogogo should have. From what I've seen I dont rate Grant at all. Hope he proves me wrong. I donāt rate Grant in what heās done so far either at times itās like playing with ten men he seems to drift around not impacting things but he is young he will probably improve and if and when he does might become a top player for this level. I do think we should have perhaps brought in two or three less youngsters and spent their overal wage 3-4 grand a week on an experienced Mansel type midfield general though.
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Post by smudge1 on Oct 30, 2020 20:15:40 GMT
I sometimes don't know what games people are watching. You don't join Chelsea without being decent! He is doing his best and is a decent prospect.
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Post by socrates on Oct 30, 2020 20:24:53 GMT
I sometimes don't know what games people are watching. You don't join Chelsea without being decent! He is doing his best and is a decent prospect. He probably is doing his best and is definitely a decent prospect but most of these posts are about what weāve seen so far. Which to be fair is all someone can ever be judged on.
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Oct 30, 2020 21:08:09 GMT
I sometimes don't know what games people are watching. You don't join Chelsea without being decent! He is doing his best and is a decent prospect. I haven't seen him play for Chelsea yet.
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Post by socrates on Oct 30, 2020 22:04:24 GMT
I sometimes don't know what games people are watching. You don't join Chelsea without being decent! He is doing his best and is a decent prospect. I haven't seen him play for Chelsea yet. Yeah the whole he came through a Prem academy so he must be good thing is bullshit. Premier league clubs snap up any kid who shows the slightest amount of potential and then loan them out and only a very small percentage actually make it at a level above ours.
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Post by markczgas on Oct 31, 2020 17:20:40 GMT
Really impressed me today - passed it well, never flustered even under pressure,. Won his tackles, excellent positioning. Think he's a real talent. Haven't seen him have a bad game.
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Post by thegasareback on Oct 31, 2020 17:22:42 GMT
I think that was his best game for us but how he wasnāt given a second yellow in the 90th minute was a miracle!
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Post by socrates on Oct 31, 2020 17:32:13 GMT
Possibly his best gAme yet but still only 6 out of 10. Westbrooke went from 5 in the first half to 8 in the second simply because he played further up and put us on the front foot. Watching him 5 yards in front of the back three is crap. Nicholson played well I like his direct running and he gives us a different dimension in midfield. We were poor first half but decent second half when we used the midfield more and they pushed up more.
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Post by dmacca65 on Oct 31, 2020 17:47:49 GMT
Possibly his best gAme yet but still only 6 out of 10. Westbrooke went from 5 in the first half to 8 in the second simply because he played further up and put us on the front foot. Watching him 5 yards in front of the back three is crap. Nicholson played well I like his direct running and he gives us a different dimension in midfield. We were poor first half but decent second half when we used the midfield more and they pushed up more. Have to agree with this!
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Post by Jomo on Oct 31, 2020 18:35:00 GMT
Possibly his best gAme yet but still only 6 out of 10. Westbrooke went from 5 in the first half to 8 in the second simply because he played further up and put us on the front foot. Watching him 5 yards in front of the back three is crap. Nicholson played well I like his direct running and he gives us a different dimension in midfield. We were poor first half but decent second half when we used the midfield more and they pushed up more. Completely agree with this.
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Post by pucklegas on Oct 31, 2020 19:56:49 GMT
I think that was his best game for us but how he wasnāt given a second yellow in the 90th minute was a miracle! On 5 bookings now so will get a ban.
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Post by GasAttacK on Oct 31, 2020 22:55:15 GMT
Not convinced by Grant. Thought he was average at best and lucky to stay on the field.
I'm not sayng he won't come good but needs to improve in my opinion.
Westbrooke - as RoverDrive said in another thread - flatters to deceive. The second half today was the first time I've seen him have much possession in the oppositions half and he performed much better. In the first half and far too often in previous games he picks the ball up in our defensive third and simply passes backwards or sideways. To have a positive impact on the game he has to play further up the pitch as he did for most of the second half today.
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