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Post by Gassy on Dec 13, 2020 19:08:29 GMT
Your reported posts were discussed by the moderation team, as all reported posts are. Sometimes we take action, sometimes we don’t. Sometimes we edit or delete a post, sometimes we don’t. Like AF posted a few weeks ago, sometimes we leave things in the open for people to make up their own minds on a poster. One thing we don’t do though is post publicly the results of every reported post. If you really want to know then do let me know and we can drop you a PM. I don't really want to know. I'm just saying the reported posts are very clearly abusive. I find it unpleasant. I also think that by allowing them to stand it sets a tone for the forum that it is OK to abuse someone if you don't like them or what they have posted. In my opinion not liking someone or their posts on an Internet forum is not an excuse for abusing someone. If mods disagree with that then so be it. Ok then, it just seems when you wrote, "I reported 2 such posts which have neither been removed or amended. I was also not contacted to explain the decision" that you really do want to know. We all agree that if you don't like someone or their posts then that is not an excuse for abusing someone. Have I, or any of the other mods given you that impression? Like I said, some posts have action taken and some don't. Just because a post isn't deleted or amended doesn't mean we deem it "acceptable".
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Post by Topper Gas on Dec 13, 2020 19:15:56 GMT
I can see yours and Cheshire’s point of view, but it’s purely speculative based on what you think could have happened. There is no proof that Higgs would have choked or refinanced us again without MSP. I’m pretty sure Higgs wouldn’t have let us go into admin when we were pushing on for promotion with UWE still very much on the go at the time. But it's not speculative. There are facts to support it as a likely if not probable: 1. Financing with MSP in the first place. If there were other options open they would have been taken. 2. The club was sold. Again, if there were other avenues available they would have been taken. Why would NH turn down the offer from the ALQ's when they were apparently prepared to repay him all the money he had invested in the club? I doubt he could believe his luck! What Plan B was in the event of the club not selling his just now all guess work, something GI usually gets stick for should he posts anything making similar suggestions.
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Post by orgasmic on Dec 13, 2020 19:23:13 GMT
I don't really want to know. I'm just saying the reported posts are very clearly abusive. I find it unpleasant. I also think that by allowing them to stand it sets a tone for the forum that it is OK to abuse someone if you don't like them or what they have posted. In my opinion not liking someone or their posts on an Internet forum is not an excuse for abusing someone. If mods disagree with that then so be it. Ok then, it just seems when you wrote, "I reported 2 such posts which have neither been removed or amended. I was also not contacted to explain the decision" that you really do want to know. We all agree that if you don't like someone or their posts then that is not an excuse for abusing someone. Have I, or any of the other mods given you that impression? Like I said, some posts have action taken and some don't. Just because a post isn't deleted or amended doesn't mean we deem it "acceptable". To be honest by leaving up 2 posts that were reported as abusive, yes I get the impression that mods think it was acceptable.
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Post by Gassy on Dec 13, 2020 19:44:57 GMT
Ok then, it just seems when you wrote, "I reported 2 such posts which have neither been removed or amended. I was also not contacted to explain the decision" that you really do want to know. We all agree that if you don't like someone or their posts then that is not an excuse for abusing someone. Have I, or any of the other mods given you that impression? Like I said, some posts have action taken and some don't. Just because a post isn't deleted or amended doesn't mean we deem it "acceptable". To be honest by leaving up 2 posts that were reported as abusive, yes I get the impression that mods think it was acceptable. FWIW, one of your posts was reported as abusive, not 2. But thank you for your feedback, it will be discussed.
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Post by LJG on Dec 13, 2020 20:07:46 GMT
But it's not speculative. There are facts to support it as a likely if not probable: 1. Financing with MSP in the first place. If there were other options open they would have been taken. 2. The club was sold. Again, if there were other avenues available they would have been taken. Why would NH turn down the offer from the ALQ's when they were apparently prepared to repay him all the money he had invested in the club? I doubt he could believe his luck! What Plan B was in the event of the club not selling his just now all guess work, something GI usually gets stick for should he posts anything making similar suggestions. Where have I said anything about turning down an offer from the Al Qadis? It isn't guesswork at all. In fact the first sentence of your own post illustrates perfectly why it's not.
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Post by Okebournegas on Dec 14, 2020 0:11:32 GMT
Just popped back onto this subject to see if people Are still bickering ......
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Post by orgasmic on Dec 14, 2020 6:12:36 GMT
To be honest by leaving up 2 posts that were reported as abusive, yes I get the impression that mods think it was acceptable. FWIW, one of your posts was reported as abusive, not 2. But thank you for your feedback, it will be discussed. Not worth a great deal. It might not have explicitly referred to abuse but that doesn’t stop it from being so. Very simply abuse is abuse regardless of who it is aimed at, who is doing it and how justified someone might feel it is. The mod team either accept abuse or they don’t. For me, any grey area created is just trying to justify abuse. How you guys as Mods decide to view it is entirely up to you as a team.
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Marshy
Proper Gas
Posts: 14,137
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Post by Marshy on Dec 14, 2020 6:24:59 GMT
Just popped back onto this subject to see if people Are still bickering ...... Do bears sh** in the woods? 😁
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Post by Topper Gas on Dec 14, 2020 6:49:57 GMT
Why would NH turn down the offer from the ALQ's when they were apparently prepared to repay him all the money he had invested in the club? I doubt he could believe his luck! What Plan B was in the event of the club not selling his just now all guess work, something GI usually gets stick for should he posts anything making similar suggestions. Where have I said anything about turning down an offer from the Al Qadis? It isn't guesswork at all. In fact the first sentence of your own post illustrates perfectly why it's not. We've simply no idea what NH's plans were in the absence of the ALQ's offer. It's just guess work that he'd have put us into administration and so lose the £m's he'd invested.
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Post by bluegas on Dec 14, 2020 7:15:10 GMT
Just popped back onto this subject to see if people Are still bickering ...... It's fascinating.....
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Post by gashead1981 on Dec 14, 2020 8:41:51 GMT
I can see yours and Cheshire’s point of view, but it’s purely speculative based on what you think could have happened. There is no proof that Higgs would have choked or refinanced us again without MSP. I’m pretty sure Higgs wouldn’t have let us go into admin when we were pushing on for promotion with UWE still very much on the go at the time. But it's not speculative. There are facts to support it as a likely if not probable: 1. Financing with MSP in the first place. If there were other options open they would have been taken. 2. The club was sold. Again, if there were other avenues available they would have been taken. It is speculative because there is not one shred of evidence to support the supposition that administration was a nailed on certainty if the ALQ offer fell through. I don’t know the full reasons behind using MSP to begin with and neither do you know it was the only or most competitive option, it could be that it just satisfied the terms and requirements we needed at the time. Either way to enter into administration the majority shareholder has to state that he is no longer willing to guarantee the losses/debt or inject capital into the business. Nick never said, as did any of the other directors suggest that they were no longer willing to do so. The club was sold after Micheal Cunnah came to look at the UWE project as an advisor and was so impressed at the plans for the club that he asked if there was room for investment or purchase of the club. He knew Hamer who knew the ALQs were looking for something. That’s how he ended up on the board at the very beginning of the ownership. It all started with a chance meeting. We all knew the club was unofficially for sale as Nick had basically put an advert in a Far Eastern magazine saying so and stated very publicly that if someone could come in that could take the club further he would sell.
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Post by phillistine on Dec 14, 2020 8:45:34 GMT
Where have I said anything about turning down an offer from the Al Qadis? It isn't guesswork at all. In fact the first sentence of your own post illustrates perfectly why it's not. We've simply no idea what NH's plans were in the absence of the ALQ's offer. It's just guess work that he'd have put us into administration and so lose the £m's he'd invested. The original comment made by Hamer was that Wael's advisers during negotiations had suggested that Rovers would go into administration if the deal did not go through- it was their belief. The reality is that there are far better business propositions than investing in a footie club and the people who do it are usually emotionally involved rather than driven by simple business motives. No-one has suggested that NH actually intended that. Its gone now and we should just be relieved and happy to be on a sound financial base now that ensures the future of the club that we all love
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Post by LJG on Dec 14, 2020 10:27:55 GMT
But it's not speculative. There are facts to support it as a likely if not probable: 1. Financing with MSP in the first place. If there were other options open they would have been taken. 2. The club was sold. Again, if there were other avenues available they would have been taken. It is speculative because there is not one shred of evidence to support the supposition that administration was a nailed on certainty if the ALQ offer fell through. I don’t know the full reasons behind using MSP to begin with and neither do you know it was the only or most competitive option, it could be that it just satisfied the terms and requirements we needed at the time. Either way to enter into administration the majority shareholder has to state that he is no longer willing to guarantee the losses/debt or inject capital into the business. Nick never said, as did any of the other directors suggest that they were no longer willing to do so. The club was sold after Micheal Cunnah came to look at the UWE project as an advisor and was so impressed at the plans for the club that he asked if there was room for investment or purchase of the club. He knew Hamer who knew the ALQs were looking for something. That’s how he ended up on the board at the very beginning of the ownership. It all started with a chance meeting. We all knew the club was unofficially for sale as Nick had basically put an advert in a Far Eastern magazine saying so and stated very publicly that if someone could come in that could take the club further he would sell. But, again, it's not true that we don't know why MSP was used. We do know exactly. The bank refused to continue to extend credit to the club.
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Post by LJG on Dec 14, 2020 10:36:22 GMT
Where have I said anything about turning down an offer from the Al Qadis? It isn't guesswork at all. In fact the first sentence of your own post illustrates perfectly why it's not. We've simply no idea what NH's plans were in the absence of the ALQ's offer. It's just guess work that he'd have put us into administration and so lose the £m's he'd invested. So your logic is that someone concerned with recovering the millions they'd put into the club would continue to put more millions in each year while they wait for a purchaser? At the same time as paying around £350,000 in interest alone to a high rate creditor. Which you think Higgs chose to use instead of his own money? Why would someone willing to finance something choose to incur credit interest unnecessarily? Toppernomics.
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Post by stuart1974 on Dec 14, 2020 10:48:38 GMT
It is speculative because there is not one shred of evidence to support the supposition that administration was a nailed on certainty if the ALQ offer fell through. I don’t know the full reasons behind using MSP to begin with and neither do you know it was the only or most competitive option, it could be that it just satisfied the terms and requirements we needed at the time. Either way to enter into administration the majority shareholder has to state that he is no longer willing to guarantee the losses/debt or inject capital into the business. Nick never said, as did any of the other directors suggest that they were no longer willing to do so. The club was sold after Micheal Cunnah came to look at the UWE project as an advisor and was so impressed at the plans for the club that he asked if there was room for investment or purchase of the club. He knew Hamer who knew the ALQs were looking for something. That’s how he ended up on the board at the very beginning of the ownership. It all started with a chance meeting. We all knew the club was unofficially for sale as Nick had basically put an advert in a Far Eastern magazine saying so and stated very publicly that if someone could come in that could take the club further he would sell. But, again, it's not true that we don't know why MSP was used. We do know exactly. The bank refused to continue to extend credit to the club. That's certainly how I remember it, at least from public statements anyway. I have no inside details to either corroborate or refute that, I do recall one credible poster on here saying they actually saw the administration papers. Why on Earth would someone take out a high interest loan when they could do it themselves? It also gave MSP a Charge over the Mem, DS have had a lot of scrutiny over their Charge, but for me this was a more serious possibility of losing the ground than we ever were with DS.
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Post by warehamgas on Dec 14, 2020 10:58:38 GMT
I’ve kept out of this thread. But it appears BRFC are in the best financial position, perhaps better than in my whole lifetime thanks to Wael, yet we can still argue about it. That’s my Rovers!! 😀😀😀😀 UTG!
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Post by chewbacca on Dec 14, 2020 11:19:37 GMT
I’ve kept out of this thread. But it appears BRFC are in the best financial position, perhaps better than in my whole lifetime thanks to Wael, yet we can still argue about it. That’s my Rovers!! 😀😀😀😀 UTG! There's two threads in this thread now.
- Rovers financial position. - Which ITK is getting their ITK from the right ITK so they can appear ITK on the forum.
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Post by gashead1981 on Dec 14, 2020 11:58:08 GMT
It is speculative because there is not one shred of evidence to support the supposition that administration was a nailed on certainty if the ALQ offer fell through. I don’t know the full reasons behind using MSP to begin with and neither do you know it was the only or most competitive option, it could be that it just satisfied the terms and requirements we needed at the time. Either way to enter into administration the majority shareholder has to state that he is no longer willing to guarantee the losses/debt or inject capital into the business. Nick never said, as did any of the other directors suggest that they were no longer willing to do so. The club was sold after Micheal Cunnah came to look at the UWE project as an advisor and was so impressed at the plans for the club that he asked if there was room for investment or purchase of the club. He knew Hamer who knew the ALQs were looking for something. That’s how he ended up on the board at the very beginning of the ownership. It all started with a chance meeting. We all knew the club was unofficially for sale as Nick had basically put an advert in a Far Eastern magazine saying so and stated very publicly that if someone could come in that could take the club further he would sell. But, again, it's not true that we don't know why MSP was used. We do know exactly. The bank refused to continue to extend credit to the club. I meant why MSP were chosen over another financial house. Our bank at the time certainly refused to extend the credit, doesn't mean to say all other banks would have done the same. But a credit extension to the club doesn't mean that it was a refusal of Higgs himself. He sold Cowlin for £52m in 2007 so a fairly sizeable net worth and im sure he also has collateral the banks would execute on. That said, if he was unwilling to personally offer it then someone like MSP would have been the only alternative for a short term solution. But that still doesn't mean that administration was a certainty. You have to remember that this was all done with UWE going on in the background with the view that had it come off then Rovers would have been debt free with a shiny new stadium.
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Post by 2nd May 1990 on Dec 14, 2020 12:05:11 GMT
For someone who is rubbish with this sort of thing, are we debt free like Wael said or not? Ich mein.... Jein.
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Post by oldgas on Dec 14, 2020 12:17:36 GMT
I fail to understand the unhealthy obsession regarding the club’s financial situation on this forum. It seems relatively simple to me. Mr AQ aquired the club from NH. For several years he was stymied by his older brother who’s sole aim appeared to be stopping the required investment to move us forward. In fact I believe we were starting to slide backwards.
The unfortunate passing of Mr AQ senior gave Wael the necessary financial freedom to invest and progress the club. It seems to me he has done so quite spectacularly. He has assured us he has taken all debt away from the club and has guaranteed the club’s existence through the pandemic. In spite of these assurances we have all these “experts” calling his every move and statement into question. I would like to know how all these financial wizards have the time to endlessly speculate on his intentions and the club’s financial situation.
Is there anyone on this forum or in the wider world of Rovers fans who are willing to take over and improve the situation to these experts satisfaction? No, didn’t think so. I am happy to pay for my 3 season tickets each year, turn up, buy the occasional pasty and drink, buy my son the home and away kits each year and leave the running of the club, a thankless task, to a man who seems to have a good executive team around him and who, I an quite certain, is a financial expert.
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