Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2021 12:38:52 GMT
He has picked up less points in 13 games than Garner did! We look like a team without the needed fighting spirit for a relegation scrap. Not necessarily his fault but I am scratching my head over his line up formations over the last 2 games. We are definitely poor enough to go down, and if we don’t we have a massive re building job to do in the summer. Worrying time For those who love a “give him ten games” Tisdale’s first 10 was better than Garner’s first 10 (both Garner’s first 10 last season and his first 10 this season). It’s after the first 10 (when covid struck iirc) that Tisdale’s record declines. Can’t count cup games. Tisdale says that himself. Based on their league records tisdales PPG is lower against inferior opposition
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2021 12:40:39 GMT
For those who love a “give him ten games” Tisdale’s first 10 was better than Garner’s first 10 (both Garner’s first 10 last season and his first 10 this season). It’s after the first 10 (when covid struck iirc) that Tisdale’s record declines. Can’t count cup games. Tisdale says that himself. Based on their league records this season tisdales PPG is lower against inferior opposition Should add j meant league record this year with the same squad
|
|
|
Post by holmesgas1 on Jan 25, 2021 12:50:06 GMT
And that is why we should have stuck with BG. Not everyone's cup of tea I get that but i don't believe we would be in the situation we are in now if we hadn't jumped the gun and sacked him in my opinion too quickly. He was bought in to reshape the club and some of the recruitment was questionable but I sensed the players enjoyed playing for him I get the sense some of these don't really buy into PT So the best strategy for the club was to basically try and win a tallest dwarf competition? As much as I feel Tisdale was also the wrong choice it’s beginning to look like his most damaging legacy at the club is giving Garner supporters the excuse to argue that he was actually a decent manager! At the end of the day, no matter how it goes here Tisdale would still have an outside chance of getting another job, probably in league two. Garner will never manage another league club as long as he has a hole in his arse because he isn’t a manager. Though I tend to agree with your analysis about BG, you never know that he will not be a success next time around if he learnt from his mistakes with us.. Gerry Francis probably our most successful manager was a total disaster at Exeter, for same reason as BG. They both tried to play Premiership football with lower league players... Gerry was bright enough to learn; time will tell if BG is smart enough, and whether he has enough kudos to get given another chance..
|
|
|
Post by chewbacca on Jan 25, 2021 13:18:31 GMT
Can’t count cup games. Tisdale says that himself. Based on their league records this season tisdales PPG is lower against inferior opposition Should add j meant league record this year with the same squad Ben Garner League Record 2020/21; P11 W3 D3 L5 F11 A19 Pts14 PPG1.27 W%27.27 Paul Tisdale League Record 2020/21; P10 W3 D1 L6 F13 A13 Pts10 PPG1 W%30 I mean it's like comparing cheese and cheese, can both be a bit sh**?
|
|
|
Post by Blackbeard on Jan 25, 2021 13:31:50 GMT
So
Who would have Coughlan back then ?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2021 13:35:02 GMT
Should add j meant league record this year with the same squad Ben Garner League Record 2020/21; P11 W3 D3 L5 F11 A19 Pts14 PPG1.27 W%27.27 Paul Tisdale League Record 2020/21; P10 W3 D1 L6 F13 A13 Pts10 PPG1 W%30 I mean it's like comparing cheese and cheese, can both be a bit sh**? That’s quite literally what I was saying. Garners PPG is better but still sh**e
|
|
|
Post by chewbacca on Jan 25, 2021 13:41:14 GMT
Ben Garner League Record 2020/21; P11 W3 D3 L5 F11 A19 Pts14 PPG1.27 W%27.27 Paul Tisdale League Record 2020/21; P10 W3 D1 L6 F13 A13 Pts10 PPG1 W%30 I mean it's like comparing cheese and cheese, can both be a bit sh**? That’s quite literally what I was saying. Garners PPG is better but still sh**e Looking more and more like an administrative failure then.
|
|
|
Post by warehamgas on Jan 25, 2021 14:11:23 GMT
This idea that any manager we have must be experienced at this level is bonkers. We’ve had many managers who’ve had experience at this level when we appointed them yet still they weren’t very good. Dave Penny, Mark McGhee, Ray Graydon over the past 15 years come to mind. I’m sure there are plenty of others. If we used the same rule for players we’d never have considered someone for example like Jayden Stockley. He’s never done it at League 1 level in England. Nearly all his goals are League 2 yet last week many on here were talking about him as if he would save us. (I would have been very pleased to see him here btw but that’s not the argument being used.) It’s just a lazy argument to say we’ve got to buy players or have managers with experience of League 1. Blimey, we’re Bristol Rovers not Chelsea and we give managers and many players their lower league experience. I’m sure those who’ve been supporting for as long as me realise that every one of our 6 promotions have been achieved with managers who’d either failed and been sacked (Gerry F) or had never managed before in the EFL, Bert Tann (physio from Charlton I think), Don Megson, Paul T, and Darrel Clarke.
At the moment I’m sure it’s just the frustration but some of the posts are really missing the point. Whoever we appoint and whenever we appoint them we have no guarantees that they work but managers have to be given time and when Tis was appointed he inherited a squad with some talented players but which was poorly balanced in lacking options in attack. He has to be allowed time to address that imbalance, shift players out and hopefully get a striker or two in. As we’ve found, sometimes at our own expense with Matt T but also in our favour with JCH the window goes to the last hour. Add to that it’s not the best window to be doing major changes to the squad which makes it even harder. Then add the fact that Daly and Nicholson two of our attacking threats have been injured means that Tis has faced some major problems. No excuse need to be made but I think he has had some pretty extenuating circumstances to deal with.
Reading some of these OTT reactions on here are head-shakingly bewildering. We stick with him and give him the time to do what he was brought in to do. I wouldn’t want us to be an embarrassment like Chelsea are today after sacking Frank Lampard.
UTG!
|
|
|
Post by Westy on Jan 25, 2021 14:12:13 GMT
We were doing fine until we lost both Nicholson and Otzumer - 2 players BG seemed reluctant to play. It's no surprise to me that without these two we look like we did before Tisdale came in. Wasn't this PT's downfall at 'Dons? Had his strikeforce decimated and couldn't fill in the gaps? Completely agree on the Oz and Nicholson, along with Daly. 3 at the back isn't working, and it didn't work last time, and I can't remember us ever being an attacking team out on the wing. As for the OP, I can definitely see improvement. It's much said Tis - is working with BGs mistakes and having to undo them, with an assembled squad of poor decision making before his time. Another point being I can't imagine sacking PT and bringing in a 3rd manger in a season would be good for the team/our finances/our reputation.
|
|
|
Post by o2o2bo2ba on Jan 25, 2021 15:03:33 GMT
Haha! What a thread!?
There is no quantifiable comparison between PT and BG, apart from literally matches played.
The "BG in" brigade said at the time: Give him more games. It isn't his team.
This was defacto reseting history.
So, to be able to formulate a reasonable opinion on whether to believe in a thing called Paul Tisdale, or not, you need to: Give him more games. When he has his own team...
|
|
|
Post by lpgas1 on Jan 25, 2021 15:04:40 GMT
So the best strategy for the club was to basically try and win a tallest dwarf competition? As much as I feel Tisdale was also the wrong choice it’s beginning to look like his most damaging legacy at the club is giving Garner supporters the excuse to argue that he was actually a decent manager! At the end of the day, no matter how it goes here Tisdale would still have an outside chance of getting another job, probably in league two. Garner will never manage another league club as long as he has a hole in his arse because he isn’t a manager. Brendon Rodgers etc were dismissed from their first job, who knows what will happen in the future, BG may well think to himself he screwed up last summer and learn from his mistakes. I suppose his away record before he was dismissed, compared to PT's recent away form suggests, he did have something about him. The big mistake was Wael/Starnes expecting a rookie manager to completely reshape the squad & style of play plus plan the training ground development etc. If the plan was to reshape the squad then it should have been done over 3 or 4 years not in 6 months
|
|
|
Post by lpgas1 on Jan 25, 2021 15:09:09 GMT
Football players are in many ways simple folk, and as such we should play a simple 4-4-2. Until we get ourselves out of trouble. Just like Man Utd did yesterday when they beat Liverpool
|
|
|
Post by darkbluegas on Jan 25, 2021 19:33:11 GMT
I’m guessing Tisdale will be a bit more nervous this evening with Lampards departure from Chelsea, surely Wael will be quick to move with his connections there😳
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2021 20:58:55 GMT
Football players are in many ways simple folk, and as such we should play a simple 4-4-2. Until we get ourselves out of trouble. Just like Man Utd did yesterday when they beat Liverpool I agree we should go simple but Man United deffo didn’t play 4-4-2
|
|
|
Post by carlts2020 on Jan 26, 2021 8:38:13 GMT
Brendon Rodgers etc were dismissed from their first job, who knows what will happen in the future, BG may well think to himself he screwed up last summer and learn from his mistakes. I suppose his away record before he was dismissed, compared to PT's recent away form suggests, he did have something about him. The big mistake was Wael/Starnes expecting a rookie manager to completely reshape the squad & style of play plus plan the training ground development etc. If the plan was to reshape the squad then it should have been done over 3 or 4 years not in 6 months Exactly this! BG managed for 11 months. Jan to Mid March and then July to Mid November actually on the grass. 7 months with some major personal issues, a move to a new training ground, a pandemic including a full lockdown and probably the toughest fixture start to the season we could have got. If anyone else can make a 3 year plan work in 11 months under those circumstances I would love to meet them!
|
|
|
Post by warehamgas on Jan 26, 2021 10:04:25 GMT
Brendon Rodgers etc were dismissed from their first job, who knows what will happen in the future, BG may well think to himself he screwed up last summer and learn from his mistakes. I suppose his away record before he was dismissed, compared to PT's recent away form suggests, he did have something about him. The big mistake was Wael/Starnes expecting a rookie manager to completely reshape the squad & style of play plus plan the training ground development etc. If the plan was to reshape the squad then it should have been done over 3 or 4 years not in 6 months. Yes, reshaping the squad needed more time but unfortunately I guess few managers get 3 or 4 years to do that nowadays. It’s almost 2 years max. UTG!
|
|
|
Post by chewbacca on Jan 26, 2021 10:07:41 GMT
If the plan was to reshape the squad then it should have been done over 3 or 4 years not in 6 months. Yes, reshaping the squad needed more time but unfortunately I guess few managers get 3 or 4 years to do that nowadays. It’s almost 2 years max. UTG! Managers with the third worst record in the history of the club are rarely afforded what the head of boys PE was given.
|
|
|
Post by carlts2020 on Jan 26, 2021 10:23:20 GMT
Yes, reshaping the squad needed more time but unfortunately I guess few managers get 3 or 4 years to do that nowadays. It’s almost 2 years max. UTG! Managers with the third worst record in the history of the club are rarely afforded what the head of boys PE was given. A record is only a record once it is fixed. Two of PTs wins have come against Orient and Darlington. Makes the stats look good but cost us Anssi and Daly to injury. If Garner had played full strength teams in the trophy he may have 3 or 4 more wins and the record looks better but at what expense to the squad.
|
|
|
Post by carlts2020 on Jan 26, 2021 10:26:40 GMT
We had a manager that has worked in the premiership and championship as an assistant manager, has a record of improving and bringing through young players and developing them.
We set out a 3 year plan and then bottled it.
Now we are signing journeyman GK and panic centre forwards to stay in the league when we had never been in the bottom 4 for nearly two years, not once.
The hard bit had been done, the bad results had been had and the tough figures had been navigated.
Garner got sacked with a run of Swindon, Wigan, Gillingham, AFC Wimbledon, Plymouth in front of him.
Now we are in the sh** and it rests with the trigger happy board and no one else
|
|
|
Post by chewbacca on Jan 26, 2021 10:28:42 GMT
Managers with the third worst record in the history of the club are rarely afforded what the head of boys PE was given. A record is only a record once it is fixed. Two of PTs wins have come against Orient and Darlington. Makes the stats look good but cost us Anssi and Daly to injury. If Garner had played full strength teams in the trophy he may have 3 or 4 more wins and the record looks better but at what expense to the squad. I only looked at his League record, statistically he is the third worst League manager in our history both with win percentage and points per game. The only worse than him are Dave Penney and Martin Dobson. PT isn't far in front but is yet to have one full transfer window as opposed to two.
|
|