henry
Reserve Team
Posts: 365
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Post by henry on Feb 13, 2021 12:16:36 GMT
I totally agree with you Carlts. A Garner type with an experienced head alongside would be the commonsense way to go but to let him lose under the guide of Widderington was a massive mistake, and that is not hindsight. The timing of the new direction of Bristol Rovers could not have been more wrong either and the business model is so flawed it’s like a sieve. A journeyman striker is worth his weight in gold in the right circumstances. Andy Rammel is a prime example of that. The flip side to that is Jason Roberts, Nathan Ellington and the best of all, IMO, Barry Hayles. Can you see Mr Blameless unearthing anyone near that Calibra of player? Yes. James Daly and Sam Nicholson could both play championship IMO. I think there is a post somewhere online showing the players Garner scouted and coached at Crystal Palace. Probably why he was hired. Roberts, Ellington and Hayles all played in the Premiership but I cannot see Daly or Nicholson reaching those heights but you never know but the championship is achievable for Nicholson if he progresses.
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henry
Reserve Team
Posts: 365
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Post by henry on Feb 13, 2021 12:19:12 GMT
I dictate the messages, can’t use a keyboard. But can you tie your own boot laces?
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Post by carlts2020 on Feb 13, 2021 12:22:17 GMT
Genuine question. If our next manager came in and got: 3 wins 3 draws and 5 losses including playing 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 5th would you be happy? With another man’s poorly assembled squad? I’d be delighted! If it was his own team that he’d recruited though then I wouldn’t be happy. Especially if he averaged 1.1points in 12 games. You wouldn’t be happy with 1.1ppg having played 4 out of the top 5? Tough crowd
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Post by Gassy on Feb 13, 2021 12:27:00 GMT
With another man’s poorly assembled squad? I’d be delighted! If it was his own team that he’d recruited though then I wouldn’t be happy. Especially if he averaged 1.1points in 12 games. You wouldn’t be happy with 1.1ppg having played 4 out of the top 5? Tough crowd Well considering we got 4 points from 2 of those, which would be 1/3rd if the entire points total, yeah. If you want to idolise 1,1PPG ratio go ahead. I have higher standards than constant relegation form.
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Post by carlts2020 on Feb 13, 2021 12:30:47 GMT
You wouldn’t be happy with 1.1ppg having played 4 out of the top 5? Tough crowd Well considering we got 4 points from 2 of those, which would be 1/3rd if the entire points total, yeah. If you want to idolise 1,1PPG ratio go ahead. I have higher standards than constant relegation form. I don’t idolise it but it’s a pretty decent return considering the fixtures and you know that as well as I do. Especially for a squad overhauled, costs cut and average age taken down to 23. Once you guys heal it will be clear how we were improving. Anger leads to hate, hate leads to the dark side, the dark side leads to relegation.
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Post by Gassy on Feb 13, 2021 12:41:00 GMT
Well considering we got 4 points from 2 of those, which would be 1/3rd if the entire points total, yeah. If you want to idolise 1,1PPG ratio go ahead. I have higher standards than constant relegation form. I don’t idolise it but it’s a pretty decent return considering the fixtures and you know that as well as I do. Especially for a squad overhauled, costs cut and average age taken down to 23. Once you guys heal it will be clear how we were improving. Anger leads to hate, hate leads to the dark side, the dark side leads to relegation. I don’t know that at all, it’s a sh** return. Clearly you think relegation form is good, fair play we all have our opinions, but I’m pretty confident you’re in the minority. I’m healed, I look at it objectively and it wasn’t good enough. Your constant desperation to save your dads reputation suggests that you infect haven’t healed yet. Never mind the constant slating of everyone else in the club and blaming them. How was it everyone else’s fault but Garners? You can keep trying to bend statistics and facts, but it won’t work. Garner was backed more than any manager under Waels reign and he took over a team fighting for promotion. He ripped it apart and turned that team into a relegation battling one with a phenomenal return of 1.1 PPG. What was Coughlans last 12 games do you reckon? Quick question btw, do you remember was the colour of Greasy Joe’s burger box at Twerton?
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Post by toddy1953 on Feb 13, 2021 12:45:30 GMT
Because all that window confirms was that there was money available for the new direction the club wanted to go not that any of it was available for Graham Coughlan, that is what he was implying in his answer to the strengthening in January question which was put to him. Wael had only one manager to back in Darrel then Ben Garner was backed because he was the new face of the new Bristol Rovers experiment. That much is clear, but it does not prove that he would’ve backed Coughlan as that was implied in the interview by him. ‘ whether there is money to invest in experience in January i don’t know’! So it’s a conspiracy! Wael has backed every manager but for some reason, whilst Rovers were in 4th, Wael decided - nah, not you Graham Makes sense It does make sense if you look at the reasons. This place was full of - Crowds dwindling due to the way we play, This style of play is not sustainable etc etc. When GC wanted to bring some experience into the club it was turned down. Why? Not because there was no money available, it was because Wael, TW & MS decided they wanted to go in a different direction - as is their right as they run the club. History tells us they then gave BG the funds to bring in his players that has led us to this position, two managers down the line, with every bit of blame put on them & TW & MS trying to convince everyone they bear no responsibility at all - the word Ostrich springs to mind. In GC’s last game we had two young defenders playing alongside Craig, who would put any of the defenders BG brought in to shame & also had the likes of Tomlinson Hoole Hargreaves Phillips all on the bench. He was convinced that with a bit more experience the opportunity was there for us to progress. So far none of the above youngsters (bar Kilgour) or any others, has broken into the first team. I hope TW turns it around, if Wael was really in charge I’d insist on it & god forbid if he takes us down then he goes & takes MS with him.
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Post by Gassy on Feb 13, 2021 12:50:03 GMT
So it’s a conspiracy! Wael has backed every manager but for some reason, whilst Rovers were in 4th, Wael decided - nah, not you Graham Makes sense It does make sense if you look at the reasons. This place was full of - Crowds dwindling due to the way we play, This style of play is not sustainable etc etc. When GC wanted to bring some experience into the club it was turned down. Why? Not because there was no money available, it was because Wael, TW & MS decided they wanted to go in a different direction - as is their right as they run the club. History tells us they then gave BG the funds to bring in his players that has led us to this position, two managers down the line, with every bit of blame put on them & TW & MS trying to convince everyone they bear no responsibility at all - the word Ostrich springs to mind. In GC’s last game we had two young defenders playing alongside Craig, who would put any of the defenders BG brought in to shame & also had the likes of Tomlinson Hoole Hargreaves Phillips all on the bench. He was convinced that with a bit more experience the opportunity was there for us to progress. So far none of the above youngsters (bar Kilgour) or any others, has broken into the first team. I hope TW turns it around, if Wael was really in charge I’d insist on it & god forbid if he takes us down then he goes & takes MS with him. And where is the evidence that GC said he wanted experience in the squad and Wael refused? He backed every manager in the windows, so why would he suddenly refuse GC? It just doesn’t make sense. I’m not taking responsibility away from TW & MS, they’re just as responsible for the mess as is Garner.
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Post by carlts2020 on Feb 13, 2021 13:01:52 GMT
I don’t idolise it but it’s a pretty decent return considering the fixtures and you know that as well as I do. Especially for a squad overhauled, costs cut and average age taken down to 23. Once you guys heal it will be clear how we were improving. Anger leads to hate, hate leads to the dark side, the dark side leads to relegation. I don’t know that at all, it’s a sh** return. Clearly you think relegation form is good, fair play we all have our opinions, but I’m pretty confident you’re in the minority. I’m healed, I look at it objectively and it wasn’t good enough. Your constant desperation to save your dads reputation suggests that you infect haven’t healed yet. Never mind the constant slating of everyone else in the club and blaming them. How was it everyone else’s fault but Garners? You can keep trying to bend statistics and facts, but it won’t work. Garner was backed more than any manager under Waels reign and he took over a team fighting for promotion. He ripped it apart and turned that team into a relegation battling one with a phenomenal return of 1.1 PPG. What was Coughlans last 12 games do you reckon? Quick question btw, do you remember was the colour of Greasy Joe’s burger box at Twerton? Last 12 league (in order of PPG) Graham Coughlan 8 wins 2 draws 2 losses = 2.17ppg (phenomenal btw) Ben Garner 4 wins 3 draws 5 losses = 1.25ppg Paul Tisdale 3 wins 2 draws 7 losses = 0.92ppg Darrell Clarke 2 wins 3 draws 7 losses = 0.75ppg
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2021 13:02:36 GMT
It does make sense if you look at the reasons. This place was full of - Crowds dwindling due to the way we play, This style of play is not sustainable etc etc. When GC wanted to bring some experience into the club it was turned down. Why? Not because there was no money available, it was because Wael, TW & MS decided they wanted to go in a different direction - as is their right as they run the club. History tells us they then gave BG the funds to bring in his players that has led us to this position, two managers down the line, with every bit of blame put on them & TW & MS trying to convince everyone they bear no responsibility at all - the word Ostrich springs to mind. In GC’s last game we had two young defenders playing alongside Craig, who would put any of the defenders BG brought in to shame & also had the likes of Tomlinson Hoole Hargreaves Phillips all on the bench. He was convinced that with a bit more experience the opportunity was there for us to progress. So far none of the above youngsters (bar Kilgour) or any others, has broken into the first team. I hope TW turns it around, if Wael was really in charge I’d insist on it & god forbid if he takes us down then he goes & takes MS with him. And where is the evidence that GC said he wanted experience in the squad and Wael refused? He backed every manager in the windows, so why would he suddenly refuse GC? It just doesn’t make sense. I’m not taking responsibility away from TW & MS, they’re just as responsible for the mess as is Garner. The conspiracy theory version I guess, especially with things that have been suggested recently, would be that Coughlan was told there was no money as a way to undermine him, with the clubs long term goal being to bring in Garner and change direction. We’ll never know what really went on. Was he really homesick or did he jump before he was pushed?
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Post by Gassy on Feb 13, 2021 13:11:31 GMT
I don’t know that at all, it’s a sh** return. Clearly you think relegation form is good, fair play we all have our opinions, but I’m pretty confident you’re in the minority. I’m healed, I look at it objectively and it wasn’t good enough. Your constant desperation to save your dads reputation suggests that you infect haven’t healed yet. Never mind the constant slating of everyone else in the club and blaming them. How was it everyone else’s fault but Garners? You can keep trying to bend statistics and facts, but it won’t work. Garner was backed more than any manager under Waels reign and he took over a team fighting for promotion. He ripped it apart and turned that team into a relegation battling one with a phenomenal return of 1.1 PPG. What was Coughlans last 12 games do you reckon? Quick question btw, do you remember was the colour of Greasy Joe’s burger box at Twerton? Last 12 league (in order of PPG) Graham Coughlan 8 wins 2 draws 2 losses = 2.17ppg (phenomenal btw) Ben Garner 4 wins 3 draws 5 losses = 1.25ppg Paul Tisdale 3 wins 2 draws 7 losses = 0.92ppg Darrell Clarke 2 wins 3 draws 7 losses = 0.75ppg So Garners form this season would have been just about to keep us up, it’s a relegation battle. Considering where we were, what he did to the squad, what he brought in and the money we spent, that’s just simply not good enough. And that’s ignoring last season! What was his PPG last season, despite having his own January window? Must have been similar to Tisdale’s amount of games this season?
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Post by Gassy on Feb 13, 2021 13:12:09 GMT
And where is the evidence that GC said he wanted experience in the squad and Wael refused? He backed every manager in the windows, so why would he suddenly refuse GC? It just doesn’t make sense. I’m not taking responsibility away from TW & MS, they’re just as responsible for the mess as is Garner. The conspiracy theory version I guess, especially with things that have been suggested recently, would be that Coughlan was told there was no money as a way to undermine him, with the clubs long term goal being to bring in Garner and change direction. We’ll never know what really went on. Was he really homesick or did he jump before he was pushed? Only way to find out is to bring him back In reality it was probably a mixture of things, rather than one specific
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Post by toddy1953 on Feb 13, 2021 13:12:51 GMT
It does make sense if you look at the reasons. This place was full of - Crowds dwindling due to the way we play, This style of play is not sustainable etc etc. When GC wanted to bring some experience into the club it was turned down. Why? Not because there was no money available, it was because Wael, TW & MS decided they wanted to go in a different direction - as is their right as they run the club. History tells us they then gave BG the funds to bring in his players that has led us to this position, two managers down the line, with every bit of blame put on them & TW & MS trying to convince everyone they bear no responsibility at all - the word Ostrich springs to mind. In GC’s last game we had two young defenders playing alongside Craig, who would put any of the defenders BG brought in to shame & also had the likes of Tomlinson Hoole Hargreaves Phillips all on the bench. He was convinced that with a bit more experience the opportunity was there for us to progress. So far none of the above youngsters (bar Kilgour) or any others, has broken into the first team. I hope TW turns it around, if Wael was really in charge I’d insist on it & god forbid if he takes us down then he goes & takes MS with him. And where is the evidence that GC said he wanted experience in the squad and Wael refused? He backed every manager in the windows, so why would he suddenly refuse GC? It just doesn’t make sense. I’m not taking responsibility away from TW & MS, they’re just as responsible for the mess as is Garner. The evidence is there in the interview when he is stating that he will be dropping half the team back to school at the end of the game. With the style of football he was playing & Garner in the wings, the decision was already made. I support the club whoever is in charge, it’s their responsibility to run the club successfully. The thing for me with these two is that they take no responsibility at all, people were crying that PT didn’t apologise after Accrington, but these two have presided over 4 managers now, we have a completely unbalanced squad, that to date have shown nothing to suggest they could fight their way out of a paper bag, let alone a relegation scrap, and not once have they said even we may have got it wrong, on the contrary they believe they are blameless. In fact to me they both come across as arrogant. If this was under the last regime we would be shouting for heads to roll at the top. We aren’t this time as there is a nice bloke at the top who is spending his money on the club. I would also say that he is wasting a lot of money due to these two. In my view Wael’s being taken for a ride.
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Post by landrover on Feb 13, 2021 13:21:23 GMT
I totally agree with you Carlts. A Garner type with an experienced head alongside would be the commonsense way to go but to let him lose under the guide of Widderington was a massive mistake, and that is not hindsight. The timing of the new direction of Bristol Rovers could not have been more wrong either and the business model is so flawed it’s like a sieve. A journeyman striker is worth his weight in gold in the right circumstances. Andy Rammel is a prime example of that. The flip side to that is Jason Roberts, Nathan Ellington and the best of all, IMO, Barry Hayles. Can you see Mr Blameless unearthing anyone near that Calibra of player? Yes. James Daly and Sam Nicholson could both play championship IMO. I think there is a post somewhere online showing the players Garner scouted and coached at Crystal Palace. Probably why he was hired. Not that old chestnut! Every man and their dog lay claim to discovering or coaching successful kids. Palace would have had at least 5 or 6 coachs that would have had an input as the youngsters progressed through the system. No doubt the same players will be on all of their CV’s too. Garner was out of his depth managing and most certainly in a league he hadn’t a clue about.
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Post by Gas-Ed on Feb 13, 2021 13:23:20 GMT
I found Widdrington’s suggestion that we were all getting excited about our signings in the summer as a bit offensive. He is completely forgetting to mention the majority on here crying out for a striker before the window closed last September. If our position wasn’t so perilous, I would be eager to see Widdrington try and get a tune out of our squad. He clearly thinks his signings are good enough.
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Post by carlts2020 on Feb 13, 2021 13:26:33 GMT
Last 12 league (in order of PPG) Graham Coughlan 8 wins 2 draws 2 losses = 2.17ppg (phenomenal btw) Ben Garner 4 wins 3 draws 5 losses = 1.25ppg Paul Tisdale 3 wins 2 draws 7 losses = 0.92ppg Darrell Clarke 2 wins 3 draws 7 losses = 0.75ppg So Garners form this season would have been just about to keep us up, it’s a relegation battle. Considering where we were, what he did to the squad, what he brought in and the money we spent, that’s just simply not good enough. And that’s ignoring last season! What was his PPG last season, despite having his own January window? Must have been similar to Tisdale’s amount of games this season? On the form over the last 12 games of their tenure, over a season, GC would have got us promoted, Garner mid table and the other two relegated.
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Post by putterbishopston on Feb 13, 2021 13:29:38 GMT
So it’s a conspiracy! Wael has backed every manager but for some reason, whilst Rovers were in 4th, Wael decided - nah, not you Graham Makes sense It does make sense if you look at the reasons. This place was full of - Crowds dwindling due to the way we play, This style of play is not sustainable etc etc. When GC wanted to bring some experience into the club it was turned down. Why? Not because there was no money available, it was because Wael, TW & MS decided they wanted to go in a different direction - as is their right as they run the club. History tells us they then gave BG the funds to bring in his players that has led us to this position, two managers down the line, with every bit of blame put on them & TW & MS trying to convince everyone they bear no responsibility at all - the word Ostrich springs to mind. In GC’s last game we had two young defenders playing alongside Craig, who would put any of the defenders BG brought in to shame & also had the likes of Tomlinson Hoole Hargreaves Phillips all on the bench. He was convinced that with a bit more experience the opportunity was there for us to progress. So far none of the above youngsters (bar Kilgour) or any others, has broken into the first team. I hope TW turns it around, if Wael was really in charge I’d insist on it & god forbid if he takes us down then he goes & takes MS with him. Great Post Toddy.
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Post by Gassy on Feb 13, 2021 13:45:28 GMT
And where is the evidence that GC said he wanted experience in the squad and Wael refused? He backed every manager in the windows, so why would he suddenly refuse GC? It just doesn’t make sense. I’m not taking responsibility away from TW & MS, they’re just as responsible for the mess as is Garner. The evidence is there in the interview when he is stating that he will be dropping half the team back to school at the end of the game. With the style of football he was playing & Garner in the wings, the decision was already made. I support the club whoever is in charge, it’s their responsibility to run the club successfully. The thing for me with these two is that they take no responsibility at all, people were crying that PT didn’t apologise after Accrington, but these two have presided over 4 managers now, we have a completely unbalanced squad, that to date have shown nothing to suggest they could fight their way out of a paper bag, let alone a relegation scrap, and not once have they said even we may have got it wrong, on the contrary they believe they are blameless. In fact to me they both come across as arrogant. If this was under the last regime we would be shouting for heads to roll at the top. We aren’t this time as there is a nice bloke at the top who is spending his money on the club. I would also say that he is wasting a lot of money due to these two. In my view Wael’s being taken for a ride. We don’t know Wael has refused from that. As AF said previously we don’t know who/what he’s asking for and everyone seems to forget Mansfield approached our manager (illegally). Most People are calling for TW & MS’ head tbf. Many were calling for Waels too until he built us a training ground and wiped out £24m. I agree that Wael is being taken for a ride though, we need to get Ed if those driving ASAP.
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Post by playtowin on Feb 13, 2021 13:51:27 GMT
I remember going to the games. I remember his appointment. I remember the results. I remember the form table. 'Lots of teams get up the league for a bit' - sure, but a calendar year of top six form constitutes more than a bit I'd suggest. This 'it wasn't sustainable' nonsense should be called out but it's factually flawed. Love him or hate him, the guy got results and got the best out of his limited resources. It wasn't luck. Why do you think he was a failure at Mansfield? I would guess because he did not inherit a squad originally built by DC with the ethos of hard work. That perhaps their fans viewed him as a manager who had a team in the league one playoff zone and yet was struggling in league two so maybe didnt get behind the team the same as rovers fans had (?) Perhaps he also missed having a couple of stand out players that are game changers.
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Post by dragonfly on Feb 13, 2021 14:35:52 GMT
The Supporters know the dangers of having a near complete Summer clear out with a new Manager - witness Buckle. It's a pity that Wael and co do not seem to have that same experience. You have to retain the nucleus of the Squad and introduce new Players in an timely fashion. There are exceptions as we saw with DC but it takes someone like DC rather than Buckle and Garner to be successful. The cost could be catastrophic to BRFC.
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