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Post by 4d on Mar 31, 2021 17:07:38 GMT
I do think he had lots of areas to improve on. I also think he was wrongly sacked, that he was improving and with the right support and activity in the January window we would be lower mid table. So 1.09 points would have kept us up barely. 0.8 would have definitely relegated us and 0.7 would probably see us bottom. The 1.09 was gained in 11 games, of which 6 were incredibly tough games against the top teams in the division. You see, in October, a few weeks prior to his sacking. A period of 6 games with a reasonable mix of top and bottom and home and away saw us gain 1.83ppg on average. It would be fair to say Garner could and most likely would have crept that average up with a run of games after his sacking that included Wigan, Swindon, Plymouth, Wimbledon etc. What evidence is there that he was "improving" when we'd lost the last 3 home games heavily, 1-4, 0-2, 1-3? Who but a nut case would let Garner anywhere near January's recruitment after the mess he'd made in the summer. If Wael had then Garner would have probably signed two more left backs instead of the goalie and right back we did sign. Regardless if Garner's such a great manager why is he still out of work? I guess you’d point to his last 10 games of won 4, drawn 3, lost 3 as evidence of improvement.
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Post by carlts2020 on Mar 31, 2021 17:14:46 GMT
I do think he had lots of areas to improve on. I also think he was wrongly sacked, that he was improving and with the right support and activity in the January window we would be lower mid table. So 1.09 points would have kept us up barely. 0.8 would have definitely relegated us and 0.7 would probably see us bottom. The 1.09 was gained in 11 games, of which 6 were incredibly tough games against the top teams in the division. You see, in October, a few weeks prior to his sacking. A period of 6 games with a reasonable mix of top and bottom and home and away saw us gain 1.83ppg on average. It would be fair to say Garner could and most likely would have crept that average up with a run of games after his sacking that included Wigan, Swindon, Plymouth, Wimbledon etc. What evidence is there that he was "improving" when we'd lost the last 3 home games heavily, 1-4, 0-2, 1-3? Who but a nut case would let Garner anywhere near January's recruitment after the mess he'd made in the summer. If Wael had then Garner would have probably signed two more left backs instead of the goalie and right back we did sign. Regardless if Garner's such a great manager why is he still out of work? Who said he was a great manager?
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Post by lavalamp on Mar 31, 2021 17:16:07 GMT
Garnerball sacked Nov 20. Carlts joins the forum in Jan 21 and 4d joins in Feb 21. Just a coincidence? Yet they wonder why no one takes them seriously? 🤔 Perhaps if they explained their background a bit more - all time favourite Rovers manager, striker, game etc. Then maybe we would be able to understand where they are coming from better? At the moment all I can think of is 'even a stopped clock is right twice a day' Barely worth my time but as you asked, I’ll humour you. Favourite manager = Holloway (ignoring the last season) Favourite striker = Hayles Favourite game = ignoring the obvious ones, Bury away in 2003 I’ve read this forum for a while, only decided to post a few months ago as there was so much crap going unchallenged it annoyed me. Used to post a lot on the original forum (username was DJ Gas), even played in some of the forum games against city, so certainly nothing to hide. I just think Garner should have been given longer this season. Based on the results he achieved in those 11 games, and what has happened since, I find it hard to see how anyone can argue that. Thank you, that's the kind of answers I like. Mine - Manager - Francis first time Striker - Hayles (we can agree on things!) Game - NYD 1990 away to City, most one sided game of football I've seen and yet we still came away winning 1-0. 🤣 My worry is what would have happened if the results didn't improve? I can see why they rolled the dice. I found BG style of football tedious and boring. I actually fell asleep watching 2 games on iFollow. In their defence, I've not done that under PT or JB. Also, on a personal note I wouldn't have let BG manage this season after how he performed last season.
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Post by warehamgas on Mar 31, 2021 17:26:50 GMT
So this is it from the Transfermarkt website Ben Garner 33 Matches @ Bristol Rovers 0.79 PPM (https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/ben-garner/profil/trainer/33915) Paul Tisdale 19 Matches @ Bristol Rovers 0.95 PPM (https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/paul-tisdale/profil/trainer/7879) Joey Barton 10 Matches @ Bristol Rovers 0.70 PPM (https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/joey-barton/profil/trainer/60103) By default they include all matches in that. League one only records from the same site: Ben Garner 26 Matches 5W 7D 14L @ 0.85 ppm - 2019/2020 15 Matches 2W 4D 9L @ 0.67 ppm - 2020/2021 11 Matches 3W 3D 9L @ 1.09 ppm Paul Tisdale 15 Matches 3W 3D 9L @ 0.80 ppm Joey Barton 10 Matches 2W 1D 7L @ 0.70 ppm Thanks. Great stuff. But tbh it’s a very low bar and appears like a race to the bottom. Ones bad, another one is worse and another one is even worse. Blimey, what an argument. I know it’s a subjective thing but I’ve felt at least performances under Barton have been far better than those under Tis since Christmas and for most of BGs matches. I watch now knowing we will compete, get shots at goal and set up to win whereas before I didn’t have that feeling. At least when DC was here we argued over who was the best Rovers manager ever, not likely to have that argument in the near future. UTG!
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Post by 4d on Mar 31, 2021 17:34:59 GMT
Barely worth my time but as you asked, I’ll humour you. Favourite manager = Holloway (ignoring the last season) Favourite striker = Hayles Favourite game = ignoring the obvious ones, Bury away in 2003 I’ve read this forum for a while, only decided to post a few months ago as there was so much crap going unchallenged it annoyed me. Used to post a lot on the original forum (username was DJ Gas), even played in some of the forum games against city, so certainly nothing to hide. I just think Garner should have been given longer this season. Based on the results he achieved in those 11 games, and what has happened since, I find it hard to see how anyone can argue that. Thank you, that's the kind of answers I like. Mine - Manager - Francis first time Striker - Hayles (we can agree on things!) Game - NYD 1990 away to City, most one sided game of football I've seen and yet we still came away winning 1-0. 🤣 My worry is what would have happened if the results didn't improve? I can see why they rolled the dice. I found BG style of football tedious and boring. I actually fell asleep watching 2 games on iFollow. In their defence, I've not done that under PT or JB. Also, on a personal note I wouldn't have let BG manage this season after how he performed last season. I wouldn’t have been that against him going at the end of last season but that was never going to happen. He was never appointed to try to work with the existing squad which Geordie Tommy has openly stated had reached their limits. He was appointed as the right head coach to develop the young players to be bought to the club under its new ‘DNA’. No one is saying the first 11 games were perfect but there were spells in most games where we played some really nice stuff and you could see what the end goal was. Looking at those first 11 games how many points did you expect us to get? I probably expected 14/15 so we were a few short but certainly not worth a sacking. I don’t agree with just rolling the dice - you need a dam good reason to sack a manager 11 games after a complete rebuild and I don’t think those reasons were there.
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Post by warehamgas on Mar 31, 2021 17:38:21 GMT
A PPG ratio of 1.09 still isn’t good enough and leaves you 2 injuries away from a massive problem. The recruitment in the summer wasn’t good enough, Garner did not build a good enough or an experienced enough side and he left us light in the most important position, up front. He also lacked an out and out experienced winger. That is simply poor by any managements standards and unacceptable. I know you are a Garner apologist Carlts but it’s mainly his fault we are in this position, you can’t defend it. Tisdale exacerbated the issue by failing to strengthen in the window as well employing some very questionable decisions, methods and tactics. By the time Barton got in he has a squad bereft of fitness, confidence and full of injuries with absolutely no way of strengthening it. Between Barton and Tisdale they have made an absolute cats arse of this and Barton is right. I think you’ve missed the point. It is a strong possibility that the BP has deliberately lowered the PPG stats of Garner and Tisdale to make Barton’s stats look better. Does that not concern you? Why would an independent media outlet do that? Can we trust what they say / print as “fact”. I appreciate everyone has a different opinion but there is a clear pro Barton / anti Garner & Tisdale agenda here. Don’t be daft! Sorry carlts but the whole argument is a bit stupid. The reporting isn’t the problem. The point is, I’d suggest, that the ppg of BG is crap, the ppg of Tis is crap and so far the ppg of JB is crap. And we’re arguing about the semantics of it, blimey. That’s pretty close to the definition of madness. 🤔 UTG!
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pirate
Forum Legend
Posts: 18,835
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Post by pirate on Mar 31, 2021 17:39:15 GMT
So this is it from the Transfermarkt website Ben Garner 33 Matches @ Bristol Rovers 0.79 PPM (https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/ben-garner/profil/trainer/33915) Paul Tisdale 19 Matches @ Bristol Rovers 0.95 PPM (https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/paul-tisdale/profil/trainer/7879) Joey Barton 10 Matches @ Bristol Rovers 0.70 PPM (https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/joey-barton/profil/trainer/60103) By default they include all matches in that. League one only records from the same site: Ben Garner 26 Matches 5W 7D 14L @ 0.85 ppm - 2019/2020 15 Matches 2W 4D 9L @ 0.67 ppm - 2020/2021 11 Matches 3W 3D 9L @ 1.09 ppm Paul Tisdale 15 Matches 3W 3D 9L @ 0.80 ppm Joey Barton 10 Matches 2W 1D 7L @ 0.70 ppm Thanks. Great stuff. But tbh it’s a very low bar and appears like a race to the bottom. Ones bad, another one is worse and another one is even worse. Blimey, what an argument. I know it’s a subjective thing but I’ve felt at least performances under Barton have been far better than those under Tis since Christmas and for most of BGs matches. I watch now knowing we will compete, get shots at goal and set up to win whereas before I didn’t have that feeling. At least when DC was here we argued over who was the best Rovers manager ever, not likely to have that argument in the near future. UTG! Would you have been arguing over who is the best after DC's first 9 or 10 games?
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Post by surreygas4 on Mar 31, 2021 17:40:07 GMT
Thank you, that's the kind of answers I like. Mine - Manager - Francis first time Striker - Hayles (we can agree on things!) Game - NYD 1990 away to City, most one sided game of football I've seen and yet we still came away winning 1-0. 🤣 My worry is what would have happened if the results didn't improve? I can see why they rolled the dice. I found BG style of football tedious and boring. I actually fell asleep watching 2 games on iFollow. In their defence, I've not done that under PT or JB. Also, on a personal note I wouldn't have let BG manage this season after how he performed last season. I wouldn’t have been that against him going at the end of last season but that was never going to happen. He was never appointed to try to work with the existing squad which Geordie Tommy has openly stated had reached their limits. He was appointed as the right head coach to develop the young players to be bought to the club under its new ‘DNA’. No one is saying the first 11 games were perfect but there were spells in most games where we played some really nice stuff and you could see what the end goal was. Looking at those first 11 games how many points did you expect us to get? I probably expected 14/15 so we were a few short but certainly not worth a sacking. I don’t agree with just rolling the dice - you need a dam good reason to sack a manager 11 games after a complete rebuild and I don’t think those reasons were there. sorry but I don't agree with this. I too watched all the games under BG this season and actually I wasn't sure what the end goal was. We just passed the ball sideways across the back four, occasionally getting it to the midfield who tended to then pass it backwards again (Grant hardly made a forward pass under BG). The only hope was for Hanlan to get in the box and win a penalty. It was quite boring to be honest. As GC showed, you can get away with playing boring football if you're getting results. BG was not.
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Post by bobbyjones on Mar 31, 2021 17:42:56 GMT
This thread is getting boring and POINTLESS.
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Post by gregsy on Mar 31, 2021 17:47:48 GMT
This thread is getting boring and POINTLESS. Its all subjective is it not? (Checkout gregs upping his grammar)....
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Post by warehamgas on Mar 31, 2021 17:53:13 GMT
Thanks. Great stuff. But tbh it’s a very low bar and appears like a race to the bottom. Ones bad, another one is worse and another one is even worse. Blimey, what an argument. I know it’s a subjective thing but I’ve felt at least performances under Barton have been far better than those under Tis since Christmas and for most of BGs matches. I watch now knowing we will compete, get shots at goal and set up to win whereas before I didn’t have that feeling. At least when DC was here we argued over who was the best Rovers manager ever, not likely to have that argument in the near future. UTG! Would you have been arguing over who is the best after DC's first 9 or 10 games? Probably not pirate but my comment was more about the current argument about the statistical record of all our managers this season. My point was they are all poor records, we’re arguing about “the worst” which is far removed from the times when we were comparing DC and other very good managers from our past. FWIW, from a footballing point of view we need to stick with our manager for next season because, as I said, I can at least see an improvement in and a consistency in our performances. It may have come too late and without a transfer window he’s been unable to remedy the obvious reason why we are where we are. UTG!
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Post by Westy on Mar 31, 2021 17:56:54 GMT
Regardless of the anomaly, I think we can all agree they have all been water poor in terms of accumulating points. Unfortunately the main blame lies with Garner for bringing the majority of them in, who we are now lumbered with for another season. Surely if Barton ends up with less than ppg than Garner and Tisdale over the same or more games the main blame lies with him? Barton's steps he's taking are in a deficit to all the two-steps back before him
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Post by 4d on Mar 31, 2021 19:39:41 GMT
Is anybody really surprised? We knew, just like everybody else inside Football or not, what Joey Barton was like. It was always going to go one of two ways. His approach would get the players firing on all cylinders and get results from day one, or It was going to go the way it is now, throwing fireworks into the fire, creating tensions, blaming others and being confontational. Danny Mills speaks on the Undr The Cosh podcast about Joey Barton from when they were at Man City together. open.spotify.com/episode/1GLa3efFPfHPE0XrVjVzMo?si=ibS9AsO8SRuqCTkXTuAQjg&utm_source=copy-linkHe will never change. I'll give that a listen Edit: Enough adverts at the start... annoying me already. I will persist So it's most of the stories we heard in the press told by Danny Mills who interestingly got on ok with Joey. Mentions about his background and firmly says that's no excuse. Barton left Man City in 2007 so 14 years on I would imagine that Barton has already changed a lot - we all change over that amount of time. Yes he is probably still fiery when in certain environments as I imagine we all would be. He seems way more spiritual than most people I come across or follow on social media which indicates to me that he is trying to break away from those demons that built up during his childhood and when he was young getting unreal amounts of money with (as Danny said in this podcast) no one stopping him from speaking "out of turn". He will speak his mind, he has spoken his mind. One main take away from it all is that he has high, nay very high standards when it comes to the effort on the grass and expect his teams will be exactly the same in time. Given my concerns on another post about JB and the board members, it seems like its just fine... Wael (who rarely posts on twitter) had a bit of bants just a few mins ago... if things were volatile then you wouldn't see anything between um surely. Anyways... he is here, he seems to have the backing of the owner, he has my backing and everyone is entitled to their own opinions of the fella so I will respect yours pal, mine are just different UTG - GNI Been a fan of Barton up to now, but disappointed with that run. Was thinking he should get his boots on but with that speed and heart rate maybe not. I think Garner could go quicker.
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Post by Gassy on Mar 31, 2021 20:06:21 GMT
Thank you, that's the kind of answers I like. Mine - Manager - Francis first time Striker - Hayles (we can agree on things!) Game - NYD 1990 away to City, most one sided game of football I've seen and yet we still came away winning 1-0. 🤣 My worry is what would have happened if the results didn't improve? I can see why they rolled the dice. I found BG style of football tedious and boring. I actually fell asleep watching 2 games on iFollow. In their defence, I've not done that under PT or JB. Also, on a personal note I wouldn't have let BG manage this season after how he performed last season. I wouldn’t have been that against him going at the end of last season but that was never going to happen. I'm not sure about that, I reckon Covid saved Ben his job. On Ben's form that season, we'd have finished on 52 points. Tranmere were just hitting form at the time, but we'd have finished 4 points roughly above relegation. If you go from 4th on 14th December to 20th by the end of the season, there is no chance he'd have kept his job considering it was the same squad.
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Post by Gas Go Marching In on Mar 31, 2021 20:21:04 GMT
I wouldn’t have been that against him going at the end of last season but that was never going to happen. I'm not sure about that, I reckon Covid saved Ben his job. On Ben's form that season, we'd have finished on 52 points. Tranmere were just hitting form at the time, but we'd have finished 4 points roughly above relegation. If you go from 4th on 14th December to 20th by the end of the season, there is no chance he'd have kept his job considering it was the same squad. Covid has probably relegated us too as if we had got rid of Garner last summer then we may have been able to fix things before this season started.
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Post by 4d on Mar 31, 2021 20:22:17 GMT
If something saved him his job it was the fantastic win and performance v Sunderland. I still think there’s no way we were going to sack the man bought in to oversee a complete transformation before we’d even started it.
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Post by Gassy on Mar 31, 2021 20:25:55 GMT
If something saved him his job it was the fantastic win and performance v Sunderland. I still think there’s no way we were going to sack the man bought in to oversee a complete transformation before we’d even started it. We'll have to agree to disagree then. But considering Wael pulled the trigger after 11 games with his own squad and backing, suggests he was probably considering it last season. Ironically we had 11 games left of last season so there's no way he'd have survived IMO.
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Post by Antonio Fargas on Mar 31, 2021 20:26:11 GMT
If something saved him his job it was the fantastic win and performance v Sunderland. I still think there’s no way we were going to sack the man bought in to oversee a complete transformation before we’d even started it. Yep, I like to think all the players hid in the bogs just before that match and TC told everyone to ignore everything that BG was saying and just pretend GC was still in charge. That would explain why it was such a Coughlanesque win and nothing like the dross BG had served up. Unfortunately it looks like it saved his job so looking back I wish we'd lost it 6-0.
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Post by Topper Gas on Mar 31, 2021 20:42:01 GMT
What evidence is there that he was "improving" when we'd lost the last 3 home games heavily, 1-4, 0-2, 1-3? Who but a nut case would let Garner anywhere near January's recruitment after the mess he'd made in the summer. If Wael had then Garner would have probably signed two more left backs instead of the goalie and right back we did sign. Regardless if Garner's such a great manager why is he still out of work? I guess you’d point to his last 10 games of won 4, drawn 3, lost 3 as evidence of improvement. That wasn't it last 10 league games, which was 2 wins, 2 draws, 6 losses, there's zero evidence BG's league form was improving. Over those last 10 games is PPG was 0.8. I find it hard to believe any Gashead genuinely felt BG shouldn't have been sacked after the Fleetwood hammering.
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Post by 4d on Mar 31, 2021 20:50:34 GMT
I guess you’d point to his last 10 games of won 4, drawn 3, lost 3 as evidence of improvement. That wasn't it last 10 league games, which was 2 wins, 2 draws, 6 losses, there's zero evidence BG's league form was improving. Over those last 10 games is PPG was 0.8. I find it hard to believe any Gashead genuinely felt BG shouldn't have been sacked after the Fleetwood hammering. Can’t be right as last 10 league games must have included the 3 wins (Lincoln. Shrewsbury and Northampton).
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