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Post by Somersetgas on Apr 10, 2021 20:53:51 GMT
I suppose the point is that everyone seems to be seeing him as some sort of managerial mesiah. I am pointing out that his record isn't much different to Tisdale. So why are we treating him differently? Give the man a chance to pick his own tools because what he’s inherited more like a downs league squad. Many never gave Paul Tisdale a chance, he knew we needed a striker, who let him down ?
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Post by Topper Gas on Apr 10, 2021 20:59:56 GMT
Give the man a chance to pick his own tools because what he’s inherited more like a downs league squad. Many never gave Paul Tisdale a chance, he knew we needed a striker, who let him down ? I question none of us can seem to answer, perhaps in years to come somebody will let the cat out of the bag, was it PT being too fussy, players not wanting to sign for us for the money we could offer, or TW telling Wael the strikers were already good enough?
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Post by Somersetgas on Apr 10, 2021 21:07:18 GMT
Many never gave Paul Tisdale a chance, he knew we needed a striker, who let him down ? I question none of us can seem to answer, perhaps in years to come somebody will let the cat out of the bag, was it PT being too fussy, players not wanting to sign for us for the money we could offer, or TW telling Wael the strikers were already good enough? Totally agree, just doesn’t make sense, no way did he not want to add to the strike force, Widdrington is to blame for our lightweight front three. But the guy got a promotion.
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Post by warehamgas on Apr 10, 2021 21:07:35 GMT
I suppose this in/out argument will go on and on because of the position we are in. Never wanted JB but this “sack the manager” mentality has to stop imo. We’ve allowed JB to bring his own people in so although I don’t know the financial stuff and who signed what contract and for how much but the manager must be allowed to manage and given a fair amount of time to have an effect. It’s madness not to support whoever the manager is.
The results under all our managers this season has been awful no one comes out of it well. JBs result are as bad as any of them but the performances under JB have been much better than those under the previous two and we have been unlucky on many occasions. And the lack of our best players recently, Nicholson and Rodman have really b******* his plans. What he hasn’t been able to do is sign players so he hasn’t been able to resolve our awful attackers or the individual mistakes of our defenders.
When it comes to his post match press conferences he does come out with some strange things which most managers wouldn’t but I guess that’s part of his unique selling point, he is different, he is whacky and he does say strange things. As long as his strangeness is limited to what he says and not what he does I’ll be happy. Given a run at managing us, the legal system allowing, it could be successful. Unfortunately it may be in League 2 for which he will have to take his share of responsibility for that, though not perhaps as much as others. Fingers crossed we’ll be in League 1 but I’ve been saying that for a few weeks now and it’s not working! UTG!
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Post by gulfofaden on Apr 10, 2021 22:24:22 GMT
On the contrary, optimism is a good thing. Pessimism is a bad thing. If this was a workplace I would have fired half of you and promoted Rich to team leader. In the dugouts it would have been Rich rallying the troops and the rest of you bitching about your sergeant. So in effect, the pessimists are responsible for desertion, cowardice, and essentially the loss of the free world, the rise of Hitler, fascism, communism, polio, diphtheria and computer viruses. This isn’t opinion, it’s fact. We await your apology. The loss of the free world was partly due to over optimism wasn’t it? The French thinking their maginot line was indestructible and the Germans would never get round it. Chamberlain thinking he’d secured peace with Hitler. Many a bad business decision has been caused by over optimism. Tesco’s expansion into the American market ect. Optimism and realism are both useful attributes to have, to know when encouragement is needed and to know when you’ve got to take a step back and have a look at the bigger picture. That’s why I said no argument is wrong or embarrassing. The maginot line was undefeated. The assumption that the ardene couldn’t get an army though it, and that the French army had any fight in it, was the major miscalculation.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2021 7:04:56 GMT
Give the man a chance to pick his own tools because what he’s inherited more like a downs league squad. Many never gave Paul Tisdale a chance, he knew we needed a striker, who let him down ? He let himself down,I don’t think he ever wanted the job,he should have busted a gut to get a striker in but didn’t seem interested. Before you say it,how did I know he didn’t try for a striker I don’t exactly,but he we all knew that was what we needed. Btw what you done with rd?
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Post by gasify on Apr 11, 2021 8:28:55 GMT
I suppose the point is that everyone seems to be seeing him as some sort of managerial mesiah. I am pointing out that his record isn't much different to Tisdale. So why are we treating him differently? Give the man a chance to pick his own tools because what he’s inherited more like a downs league squad. I hear you. The question is why didn't we have that same attitude with Tisdale? Tisdale wanted to bring in Stockley and for one reason or another it didn't happen. Tisdale was right as Stockley has scored 5 in 15 for Charlton. That could have made such a difference to us. It just seems that JB is getting the benefit whereas Tisdale didn't and I am trying to understand why. The only thing that I can think of is "Lad Culture" as it cannot be his record as his record ain't much to write home about.
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Post by gasify on Apr 11, 2021 8:37:44 GMT
I don't really agree. I think this club needs a 5 year strategy to get the infrastructure ducks in a row. Until that has been done we will league one, league two. I don't think him and his team has done much more than Tisdale. Today, we sat back on a lead as we did under the Ben Garner times. Was a tactical error that cost us 3 pts. What would your 5 year plan be and who would you like in charge for your plan may I ask. Tisdale had a window to sign a striker etc,but didn’t so JB inherited a squad of nothings. what tactical error? My 5 Year plan: Year 0 - Relegation Year 1-4 Playoffs League 2 Year 5 Promotion as Champions While that is happening: Sell £2M of players each year. We should be two years ahead of the game. So we should have already plucked out of non league the first batch of players. While we are winning make a conscious effort to shout out that we are BRISTOL Rovers and want to have our success benefit Bristol (getting the council on our side). While we are winning and getting to the playoffs in years 1 to 3, we will have good crowds and we can then seek investment for a new stadium. Year 4 to 5 we build a new stadium with a capacity of 15k but with the ability to add another tier on top to make 30k. Year 5 promoted as Champions. We triumphantly March at the end of the season as one from The Memorial Stadium to the new stadium and get sh** faced.
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Post by Raj Gas on Apr 11, 2021 8:51:49 GMT
Give the man a chance to pick his own tools because what he’s inherited more like a downs league squad. I hear you. The question is why didn't we have that same attitude with Tisdale? Tisdale wanted to bring in Stockley and for one reason or another it didn't happen. Tisdale was right as Stockley has scored 5 in 15 for Charlton. That could have made such a difference to us. It just seems that JB is getting the benefit whereas Tisdale didn't and I am trying to understand why. The only thing that I can think of is "Lad Culture" as it cannot be his record as his record ain't much to write home about. When I see our current two strikers struggling to make any headway I can't help thinking Stockley might have struggled too, Although not too sure how much confidence plays in all of this. We have missed a "fox in the box" and/or someone with direct pace running at defenders and I think either would have worked alongside one of our front two.Playing Westbrook in behind the two of them doesn't seem to create much as they never seem to be in the right place or right wavelength and it all seems a bit pedestrian?
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Post by gasify on Apr 11, 2021 8:55:37 GMT
I hear you. The question is why didn't we have that same attitude with Tisdale? Tisdale wanted to bring in Stockley and for one reason or another it didn't happen. Tisdale was right as Stockley has scored 5 in 15 for Charlton. That could have made such a difference to us. It just seems that JB is getting the benefit whereas Tisdale didn't and I am trying to understand why. The only thing that I can think of is "Lad Culture" as it cannot be his record as his record ain't much to write home about. When I see our current two strikers struggling to make any headway I can't help thinking Stockley might have struggled too, Although not too sure how much confidence plays in all of this. We have missed a "fox in the box" and/or someone with direct pace running at defenders and I think either would have worked alongside one of our front two.Playing Westbrook in behind the two of them doesn't seem to create much as they never seem to be in the right place or right wavelength and it all seems a bit pedestrian? I agree, it's been there for all to see for a couple of seasons now. We just don't create enough. The goals that JCH scored were self made (which is why he will end up moving on up the leagues) and that papered over the cracks a little. If we get rid of Hanlan and Ayunga and they don't go on to play at a higher level before they are 30 then I will buy a round at a gaschat meet up in 7 or 8 years.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2021 9:06:56 GMT
What would your 5 year plan be and who would you like in charge for your plan may I ask. Tisdale had a window to sign a striker etc,but didn’t so JB inherited a squad of nothings. what tactical error? My 5 Year plan: Year 0 - Relegation Year 1-4 Playoffs League 2 Year 5 Promotion as Champions While that is happening: Sell £2M of players each year. We should be two years ahead of the game. So we should have already plucked out of non league the first batch of players. While we are winning make a conscious effort to shout out that we are BRISTOL Rovers and want to have our success benefit Bristol (getting the council on our side). While we are winning and getting to the playoffs in years 1 to 3, we will have good crowds and we can then seek investment for a new stadium. Year 4 to 5 we build a new stadium with a capacity of 15k but with the ability to add another tier on top to make 30k. Year 5 promoted as Champions. We triumphantly March at the end of the season as one from The Memorial Stadium to the new stadium and get sh** faced. That was why BG was brought in on a similar plan and look where we are now 🙁
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Post by stuart1974 on Apr 11, 2021 10:31:53 GMT
What would your 5 year plan be and who would you like in charge for your plan may I ask. Tisdale had a window to sign a striker etc,but didn’t so JB inherited a squad of nothings. what tactical error? My 5 Year plan: Year 0 - Relegation Year 1-4 Playoffs League 2 Year 5 Promotion as Champions While that is happening: Sell £2M of players each year. We should be two years ahead of the game. So we should have already plucked out of non league the first batch of players. While we are winning make a conscious effort to shout out that we are BRISTOL Rovers and want to have our success benefit Bristol (getting the council on our side). While we are winning and getting to the playoffs in years 1 to 3, we will have good crowds and we can then seek investment for a new stadium. Year 4 to 5 we build a new stadium with a capacity of 15k but with the ability to add another tier on top to make 30k. Year 5 promoted as Champions. We triumphantly March at the end of the season as one from The Memorial Stadium to the new stadium and get sh** faced. I can go with that, my alternative is slightly shorter though. Year 1 would be to do what DC did in the Conference, get in an experienced spine of the team with a few who have something to prove and our own younger players. Aim for playoffs but failing that, top 10 then playoffs in Year 2. Any longer and we start to accept that level as the 'norm'. Off the pitch, continue to make incremental improvements to the training ground and adjust the youth and development teams as the manager sees fit. I like the concept, though and wouldn't want to see wholesale changes at least for continuity reasons. Managers come and go so would not want to rip up the whole thing every couple of years. Stadium wise, accept the Mem as the medium term solution, at least 10 years, and build something realistic. At the moment we are losing £3m a year (supposedly reducing to £1m or so before covid arrived). With the right investment, good and successful football on the pitch and presumably lower player costs in L2, we may have some scope within the projected losses. Ideally I'd look to get a new East and North Stand in place (I would estimate roughly 10,000 seats at the cost of £12m) with the room behind to build into it additional revenue creating facilities. Lose the terracing and shift the pitch north and east, freeing up space in the west and south for a future rebuild. Failing that, just a new South and South West stand. With grants and Wael not losing so much in Year 3 and 4 onwards, it could be doable. I'll stop spending someone else's money now.
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Post by stuart1974 on Apr 11, 2021 10:34:32 GMT
The loss of the free world was partly due to over optimism wasn’t it? The French thinking their maginot line was indestructible and the Germans would never get round it. Chamberlain thinking he’d secured peace with Hitler. Many a bad business decision has been caused by over optimism. Tesco’s expansion into the American market ect. Optimism and realism are both useful attributes to have, to know when encouragement is needed and to know when you’ve got to take a step back and have a look at the bigger picture. That’s why I said no argument is wrong or embarrassing. The maginot line was undefeated. The assumption that the ardene couldn’t get an army though it, and that the French army had any fight in it, was the major miscalculation. That's right, it proved the concept correct during a German counter attack in 1945. It was the wrong assumption in the Ardennes that allowed forces to be divided in 1940.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2021 10:37:01 GMT
My 5 Year plan: Year 0 - Relegation Year 1-4 Playoffs League 2 Year 5 Promotion as Champions While that is happening: Sell £2M of players each year. We should be two years ahead of the game. So we should have already plucked out of non league the first batch of players. While we are winning make a conscious effort to shout out that we are BRISTOL Rovers and want to have our success benefit Bristol (getting the council on our side). While we are winning and getting to the playoffs in years 1 to 3, we will have good crowds and we can then seek investment for a new stadium. Year 4 to 5 we build a new stadium with a capacity of 15k but with the ability to add another tier on top to make 30k. Year 5 promoted as Champions. We triumphantly March at the end of the season as one from The Memorial Stadium to the new stadium and get sh** faced. I can go with that, my alternative is slightly shorter though. Year 1 would be to do what DC did in the Conference, get in an experienced spine of the team with a few who have something to prove and our own younger players. Aim for playoffs but failing that, top 10 then playoffs in Year 2. Any longer and we start to accept that level as the 'norm'. Off the pitch, continue to make incremental improvements to the training ground and adjust the youth and development teams as the manager sees fit. I like the concept, though and wouldn't want to see wholesale changes at least for continuity reasons. Managers cone and go so would not want to rip up the whole thing every couple of years. Stadium wise, accept the Mem as the medium term solution, at least 10 years, and build something realistic. At the moment we are losing £3m a year (supposedly reducing to £1m or so before covid arrived). With the right investment, good and successful football on the pitch and presumably lower player costs in L2, we may have some scope within the projected losses. Ideally I'd look to get a new East and North Stand in place (I would estimate roughly 10,000 seats at the cost of £12m) with the room behind to build into it additional revenue creating facilities. Lose the terracing and shift the pitch north and east, freeing up space in the west and south for a future rebuild. Failing that, just a new South and South West stand. With grants and Wael not losing so much in Year 3 and 4 onwards, it could be doable. I'll stop spending someone else's money now. Cuckoo land lol
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Post by stuart1974 on Apr 11, 2021 10:50:06 GMT
I can go with that, my alternative is slightly shorter though. Year 1 would be to do what DC did in the Conference, get in an experienced spine of the team with a few who have something to prove and our own younger players. Aim for playoffs but failing that, top 10 then playoffs in Year 2. Any longer and we start to accept that level as the 'norm'. Off the pitch, continue to make incremental improvements to the training ground and adjust the youth and development teams as the manager sees fit. I like the concept, though and wouldn't want to see wholesale changes at least for continuity reasons. Managers cone and go so would not want to rip up the whole thing every couple of years. Stadium wise, accept the Mem as the medium term solution, at least 10 years, and build something realistic. At the moment we are losing £3m a year (supposedly reducing to £1m or so before covid arrived). With the right investment, good and successful football on the pitch and presumably lower player costs in L2, we may have some scope within the projected losses. Ideally I'd look to get a new East and North Stand in place (I would estimate roughly 10,000 seats at the cost of £12m) with the room behind to build into it additional revenue creating facilities. Lose the terracing and shift the pitch north and east, freeing up space in the west and south for a future rebuild. Failing that, just a new South and South West stand. With grants and Wael not losing so much in Year 3 and 4 onwards, it could be doable. I'll stop spending someone else's money now. Cuckoo land lol Yep!
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Post by gasify on Apr 11, 2021 10:56:19 GMT
My 5 Year plan: Year 0 - Relegation Year 1-4 Playoffs League 2 Year 5 Promotion as Champions While that is happening: Sell £2M of players each year. We should be two years ahead of the game. So we should have already plucked out of non league the first batch of players. While we are winning make a conscious effort to shout out that we are BRISTOL Rovers and want to have our success benefit Bristol (getting the council on our side). While we are winning and getting to the playoffs in years 1 to 3, we will have good crowds and we can then seek investment for a new stadium. Year 4 to 5 we build a new stadium with a capacity of 15k but with the ability to add another tier on top to make 30k. Year 5 promoted as Champions. We triumphantly March at the end of the season as one from The Memorial Stadium to the new stadium and get sh** faced. That was why BG was brought in on a similar plan and look where we are now 🙁 We are right on point if that was the plan. Just looking at attendances, we would get greater attendance as a winning league two side that a mediocre league one side. So let's accept that and start to bring some income from attendance back into the club.
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Post by Somersetgas on Apr 11, 2021 13:17:28 GMT
Many never gave Paul Tisdale a chance, he knew we needed a striker, who let him down ? He let himself down,I don’t think he ever wanted the job,he should have busted a gut to get a striker in but didn’t seem interested. Before you say it,how did I know he didn’t try for a striker I don’t exactly,but he we all knew that was what we needed. Btw what you done with rd? I don’t buy he didn’t want to be here, but that’s opinions. RD he’s here there and everywhere !
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Post by Jomo on Apr 11, 2021 13:27:26 GMT
Many never gave Paul Tisdale a chance, he knew we needed a striker, who let him down ? He let himself down,I don’t think he ever wanted the job,he should have busted a gut to get a striker in but didn’t seem interested. Before you say it,how did I know he didn’t try for a striker I don’t exactly,but he we all knew that was what we needed. Btw what you done with rd? I'm sorry but that's a load of rubbish IMO. If he didn't want the job, he wouldn't have taken it. He was very clear in his regret that we didn't bring in a striker in January. That was a collective failing of himself, TW and the Board, plus Garner before him.
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Post by lpgas1 on Apr 11, 2021 17:15:53 GMT
You cannot blame Barton for the poor group of players we have. We have 3 strikers none of whom are any good.Then a back line who makes mistakes and a midfield who cannot keep hold of the ball. So who do you blame? Owner Yes for allowing this debacle to happen. He is naieve. CEO. Absolutely, Starnes has everyday running of this club and should have questioned Garner about his signings. 40% to blame Director of Recruitment. Widdrington got these players in. When JCH left we needed an experience striker, we didn't get one. Even in January when it was obvious we needed a striker he came out with a lame excuse of "There wasn't one available". There are dozens of strikers in the B and under 23 teams in the Premier league and the Championship that would have come and been better than what we have. Now we are stuck with one who is always injured, one who keeps falling over and another who is out of his depth at this level
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Post by lpgas1 on Apr 11, 2021 17:20:35 GMT
Give the man a chance to pick his own tools because what he’s inherited more like a downs league squad. I hear you. The question is why didn't we have that same attitude with Tisdale? Tisdale wanted to bring in Stockley and for one reason or another it didn't happen. Tisdale was right as Stockley has scored 5 in 15 for Charlton. That could have made such a difference to us. It just seems that JB is getting the benefit whereas Tisdale didn't and I am trying to understand why. The only thing that I can think of is "Lad Culture" as it cannot be his record as his record ain't much to write home about. I think there was more to Tisdales sacking than just that he couldn't sign a striker. I suspect he made enemies in the camp, for example the goalkeeping coach left, then came back when he had gone
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