|
Post by Icegas on May 3, 2021 15:53:00 GMT
Coughlin didn't meet all of those and yet he took us to 4th But Tisdale did? Doing a case study on Lincoln's rise from the National League to L1 promotion contenders would be an interesting excercise, they even managed to lose the Cowley's but still continued their rise up the leagues, whereas we lost GC and did the reverse! Reason was BG/TW. Gc did really well but didn't really have any foundations below him.DC did so Cowley's/DC is a better example.
|
|
|
Post by Gassy on May 3, 2021 16:47:08 GMT
But Tisdale did? Doing a case study on Lincoln's rise from the National League to L1 promotion contenders would be an interesting excercise, they even managed to lose the Cowley's but still continued their rise up the leagues, whereas we lost GC and did the reverse! Reason was BG/TW. Gc did really well but didn't really have any foundations below him.DC did so Cowley's/DC is a better example. Very similar stories until one specific point in time. Both promoted from NL and into League 1 within 2 seasons. Both had a year or 2 of stability in L1 before the promotion winning managers left. Then the new bosses of both took over and continued what was good work and added some more quality to the team. At that point is when we decided to change it up. Lincoln continued that success whilst we decided that what has got us to 4th in L1 wasn’t very good, so appointed an unknown manager with zero experience under the direction of tearing everything apart and starting from scratch. It’s a very Bristol Rovers thing to do let’s be honest.
|
|
|
Post by yetigas on May 3, 2021 16:56:17 GMT
and the shouting really improved results didn't it!!! We have no idea what BG and PT said to the players behind closed doors - that shows good management as there is no need to communicate with payers via the media when you meet them face to face every day. Seems to me like JB read he fans forum and made a few populist outbursts to get the fans onside. But JB is not a fan, he is a manager - he should behave like one. I dont much care that he did, this has been said over and over, it wasn't his team, and to be fair on their best day they were dog sh1t. Its embarrassing how many managers we get through, no decent available manager would consider coming to us, I mentioned earlier in my post that his match interviews made my balls ache, you've not really called me out on anything there. Hes got nowhere to hide this season its going to be his team, just give him the opportunity to do his job with his own choice of players. If you look out how we finished last season the writing was in the wall, this hasn't been a new unexpected thing thats happened to us we should have all half expected this, but we got wrapped up in the new signings and the hope of the season ahead of us... when honestly? ... we've been a bit crap for years, INCLUDING when GC was with us, can anyone honestly say we were good enough to go to the championship? he rode his luck and we punched over our weight. How is getting any other manager in now any better than keeping the one we have?I suspect it is not, and I did say in my post that I want JB to stay - but that is not because he has done anything to date to suggest he is a good manager (in fact quite the opposite) but because getting in a new manager every 4-6 months solves nothing. I can't say that I agree with your conclusion that 'we are lucky to have him and his team and I'm prepared to stand by him for the long term'. On what grounds? We may be lucky to have him if he leads us to promotion next season, but so far I would say we were very unlucky to have him...he took us to relegation. Better managers would have kept us in League 1. I also disagree with the mantra that 'it wasn't his team' - his idiotic public statements made it very clear that he didn't think it was his team, and these statements in my view show low levels of management ability, and most probably destroyed what little confidence the players had left. Good managers know how to get the best out of players, irrespective of who brought them to the club. I think I can safely say that every player with the possible exception of Luke Leahy, performed worse under Barton than they did under BG and PT. Let's hope he has reached the bottom of his managerial performance journey with us and I hope (assuming that his court case does not distract him too much) that he will spend the summer getting a grip of what it means to manager BRFC, reflecting on his failure this season, and putting into practice a plan that will restore our pride in the club we all love.
|
|
|
Post by Hugo the Elder on May 3, 2021 17:17:15 GMT
Reason was BG/TW. Gc did really well but didn't really have any foundations below him.DC did so Cowley's/DC is a better example. Very similar stories until one specific point in time. Both promoted from NL and into League 1 within 2 seasons. Both had a year or 2 of stability in L1 before the promotion winning managers left. Then the new bosses of both took over and continued what was good work and added some more quality to the team. At that point is when we decided to change it up. Lincoln continued that success whilst we decided that what has got us to 4th in L1 wasn’t very good, so appointed an unknown manager with zero experience under the direction of tearing everything apart and starting from scratch. It’s a very Bristol Rovers thing to do let’s be honest. No we didnt. Coughlan left. We didnt decide anything. Coughlan did.
|
|
|
Post by Topper Gas on May 3, 2021 17:41:21 GMT
Very similar stories until one specific point in time. Both promoted from NL and into League 1 within 2 seasons. Both had a year or 2 of stability in L1 before the promotion winning managers left. Then the new bosses of both took over and continued what was good work and added some more quality to the team. At that point is when we decided to change it up. Lincoln continued that success whilst we decided that what has got us to 4th in L1 wasn’t very good, so appointed an unknown manager with zero experience under the direction of tearing everything apart and starting from scratch. It’s a very Bristol Rovers thing to do let’s be honest. No we didnt. Coughlan left. We didnt decide anything. Coughlan did. The issue is not GC's reasons for leaving but why we decided to throw away what he'd built and start all over again under BG, rather than just continue building as Lincoln appear to have done under Appleton. I've a feeling Rochdale also tried a similar approach as us.
|
|
|
Post by yetigas on May 3, 2021 17:46:43 GMT
JB has done nothing yet apart from take us into League 2. I admire your blind faith but I am not sure that your gut feeling is a good guide to the future! 'Something very DC about him'? I disagree. When DC took us into the National League it clearly hurt him and he put all his effort into rectifying that. He embraced Bristol Rovers and for 3 seasons, until he ran out of steam, he did pretty well. I don't see JB hurting - he has seemingly grudgingly accepted a small part of the blame for relegation but I don't see or hear any emotion that suggests he is really upset about it. Have you noticed that in his interviews JB refers to Bristol Rovers as 'you' and not 'we'? Its like he's on a short term consultants mission. I look forward to the day when he refers to Bristol Rovers as 'we' - then he will be beginning to be more like DC - but he has a very long way to go. That said - I want him to succeed - I do NOT want him to find an excuse to leave. He has overseen the worst performances of the season (quite an achievement!!) and he now has the responsibility to put things right. Let's see how good a manager he really is - and if he shows he is really invested in BRFC then he will have my full support. Not sure that’s entirely correct; he’s spoken about “this club” an awful lot and when speaking directly to fans (in pressers & face-to-face) he’s said stuff like “ I’ll get you into the Championship”, which I think is his way of including the fans specifically. Pretty sure he’s used “we” a fair bit when talking about the club & team. That's actually a good example of what I meant. I realise its an off the cuff remark, but it indicates that he sees 'us' as different to him. I would be much more impressed if he said 'I’ll get us into the Championship'. It would indicate both that he is invested in the club and that he intends to stay until he achieves it.
|
|
|
Post by garystash on May 3, 2021 17:48:59 GMT
Reason was BG/TW. Gc did really well but didn't really have any foundations below him.DC did so Cowley's/DC is a better example. Very similar stories until one specific point in time. Both promoted from NL and into League 1 within 2 seasons. Both had a year or 2 of stability in L1 before the promotion winning managers left. Then the new bosses of both took over and continued what was good work and added some more quality to the team. At that point is when we decided to change it up. Lincoln continued that success whilst we decided that what has got us to 4th in L1 wasn’t very good, so appointed an unknown manager with zero experience under the direction of tearing everything apart and starting from scratch. It’s a very Bristol Rovers thing to do let’s be honest. The change of direction was because everyone moaned about the style of football under Coughlan. We were up into 4th, 2nd even at one stage as I recall, but crowds didn't grow and people were complaining. The football was woeful but yet it got results. Well all those who complained have got what they deserve. The exact opposite of Coughlan ball - a team that can knock the ball around but yet cannot get a result.
|
|
|
Post by Hugh Jarsole on May 3, 2021 18:10:23 GMT
Not sure that’s entirely correct; he’s spoken about “this club” an awful lot and when speaking directly to fans (in pressers & face-to-face) he’s said stuff like “ I’ll get you into the Championship”, which I think is his way of including the fans specifically. Pretty sure he’s used “we” a fair bit when talking about the club & team. That's actually a good example of what I meant. I realise its an off the cuff remark, but it indicates that he sees 'us' as different to him. I would be much more impressed if he said 'I’ll get us into the Championship'. It would indicate both that he is invested in the club and that he intends to stay until he achieves it. No, I like that he said "I'll get you in the championship", he was saying it directly to a supporter, IF this were a radio interview I would expect him to use "us" He was making a personal "promise" to an individual. As for not making a statement of intent to stay, I believe his contract is 30 months 3? of which he has fulfilled, when he said "I will get you to the championship" it was followed with something like "within 5 years" so thats a pretty strong statement to make from somebody on a two and a half year contract
|
|
|
Post by Gassy on May 3, 2021 18:21:15 GMT
Very similar stories until one specific point in time. Both promoted from NL and into League 1 within 2 seasons. Both had a year or 2 of stability in L1 before the promotion winning managers left. Then the new bosses of both took over and continued what was good work and added some more quality to the team. At that point is when we decided to change it up. Lincoln continued that success whilst we decided that what has got us to 4th in L1 wasn’t very good, so appointed an unknown manager with zero experience under the direction of tearing everything apart and starting from scratch. It’s a very Bristol Rovers thing to do let’s be honest. No we didnt. Coughlan left. We didnt decide anything. Coughlan did. But we did though. My point wasn’t about Coughlan’s decision to leave, it was about the change of direction instead of continuing what clearly was working. We decided not to back Coughlan enough, we decided to change strategy and we decided to hire Garner to carry out this mammoth job.
|
|
|
Post by Gassy on May 3, 2021 18:22:28 GMT
Very similar stories until one specific point in time. Both promoted from NL and into League 1 within 2 seasons. Both had a year or 2 of stability in L1 before the promotion winning managers left. Then the new bosses of both took over and continued what was good work and added some more quality to the team. At that point is when we decided to change it up. Lincoln continued that success whilst we decided that what has got us to 4th in L1 wasn’t very good, so appointed an unknown manager with zero experience under the direction of tearing everything apart and starting from scratch. It’s a very Bristol Rovers thing to do let’s be honest. The change of direction was because everyone moaned about the style of football under Coughlan. We were up into 4th, 2nd even at one stage as I recall, but crowds didn't grow and people were complaining. The football was woeful but yet it got results. Well all those who complained have got what they deserve. The exact opposite of Coughlan ball - a team that can knock the ball around but yet cannot get a result. I will never understand those fans, I was absolutely delighted with the direction the club was going in. The only thing I was annoyed about at the time was our contract handling.
|
|
|
Post by olskooltoteender on May 3, 2021 19:49:13 GMT
Not sure that’s entirely correct; he’s spoken about “this club” an awful lot and when speaking directly to fans (in pressers & face-to-face) he’s said stuff like “ I’ll get you into the Championship”, which I think is his way of including the fans specifically. Pretty sure he’s used “we” a fair bit when talking about the club & team. That's actually a good example of what I meant. I realise its an off the cuff remark, but it indicates that he sees 'us' as different to him. I would be much more impressed if he said 'I’ll get us into the Championship'. It would indicate both that he is invested in the club and that he intends to stay until he achieves it. Fair enough - I guess it’s all in the ears of the listener? I can see how it could be interpreted either way.
|
|
|
Post by twertonboy on May 3, 2021 20:59:57 GMT
I personally feel joey’s statements of if he can’t get us out of league 2 he shouldn’t be in the game and a promise of championship football to me is he’s playing a big game of hype as he probably knows in June he’ll be out of football for a while after the court case and promoting himself now to get work after his ban.. I hope I’m very wrong but considering he had the most games in charge this season admittedly with a squad he hadn’t assembled and he couldn’t change anything then that’s a big ask.. He’s still stuck with a lot of the players he’s called losers and he wants out will play a big part.. It’s like he knows he’ll be gone soon
|
|
|
Post by Topper Gas on May 3, 2021 21:19:45 GMT
I personally feel joey’s statements of if he can’t get us out of league 2 he shouldn’t be in the game and a promise of championship football to me is he’s playing a big game of hype as he probably knows in June he’ll be out of football for a while after the court case and promoting himself now to get work after his ban.. I hope I’m very wrong but considering he had the most games in charge this season admittedly with a squad he hadn’t assembled and he couldn’t change anything then that’s a big ask.. He’s still stuck with a lot of the players he’s called losers and he wants out will play a big part.. It’s like he knows he’ll be gone soon Given around a dozen are out of contract he's not stuck with all of them and if Ehmer's got any sense he'll have his agent lining up a new deal and cut his loses. Whilst the likes of Liddle and Kioki will be useful squad players or can be sent out on loan, Barton's fortunate in that he's not likely to be stuck with any unwanted big earners like Bennett and Ogogo, assuming he stays a free man.
|
|
|
Post by gashead1981 on May 3, 2021 22:13:19 GMT
The change of direction was because everyone moaned about the style of football under Coughlan. We were up into 4th, 2nd even at one stage as I recall, but crowds didn't grow and people were complaining. The football was woeful but yet it got results. Well all those who complained have got what they deserve. The exact opposite of Coughlan ball - a team that can knock the ball around but yet cannot get a result. I will never understand those fans, I was absolutely delighted with the direction the club was going in. The only thing I was annoyed about at the time was our contract handling. Me either. I actually enjoyed rocking up to a game in the knowledge we were more likely to get a point or win that struggle to even get a point. I didn’t really how we won, I just enjoyed seeing us win. This fascination with total football has what’s cost us. I know that no one manager is the same as another, each will have different philosophy’s, styles, tactics et al, but I’ve never seen a team get out of L1 playing like Barcelona. Being strong at the back, robust and simple through the middle with a 2 strikers with one that holds up the ball and one that can finish is what usually works. That team that Cogs built was a fox in the box and a winger away from probably competing for the top 4 that year.
|
|
|
Post by Hugo the Elder on May 4, 2021 5:23:58 GMT
I hated watching the "football" Coggers served up.
Obviously I loved the results, but I just didn't want to watch.
Just because Garner was an utter failure, that doesnt mean the decision to move towards more easy on the eye football was the wrong one.
The way it was done (wholesale changes) and with a total novice in charge was clearly wrong.
|
|
|
Post by cj on May 4, 2021 17:55:43 GMT
He has failed in my eyes. Yes it hasn't been his players but he has still failed to manage the players we do have. He has a worse record than PT and this wasn't PT team either and that didn't stop PT from getting sacked. I don't want him to have a chance next season as I don't rate him as a manager and therefore don't trust him with our budget to fix our club. It will just be a waste of funds and time because 10-15 games in, he will be sacked and we are back to square 1, waiting for January window to open for yet another manager to save us from another relegation battle. You can live in hope. I rather live in reality. Conviniently forgetting PT did actually have a transfer window he failed to use? Kind of a big aspect when comparing managers... PT needed body's and he failed. JB hasn't been able to sign anybody, PT had the opportunity... Ah, that is where you are wrong. I didn't conveniently forget PT had a window. I chose to instead take into account that PT was heavily restricted on what he could do in that window.
Now I am not a fan of PT and was against his appointment and I was glad he was sacked. But lets be fair here. We were only allowed a squad of 23 players (not including youngsters) and we were already at or near the limit so PT couldn't make lots of changes that was needed. For PT to make signings, either people had to leave for him to bring in players or players were going to be left out of the 23 man squad altogether. Remember too that we have a wage budget also to adhere to so it is not realistic to have lots of players on the books but not in the 23 man squad (draining the wage budget) just so PT could have space available to bring in more players which would eat up more wages.
What PT needed was a summer window where he could have more time to get rid of players and bring in players. Not a window that is known to be very hard to sign lots of players. Therefore I am disregarding that window as a proper window for PT due to his restrictions and I will continue to compare PT and JB as managers for us. Plus, the 2 players PT brought in, were also used by JB. They've had the same players to work with and JB has done worse than PT with the same set of players. He has made us worse.
|
|
|
Post by Big Jock on May 4, 2021 18:08:10 GMT
Oh how th mind revels in conjecture.
Where information is lacking, it will gladly fill in th gaps.
|
|
pirate
Forum Legend
Posts: 18,639
|
Post by pirate on May 4, 2021 18:09:13 GMT
Conviniently forgetting PT did actually have a transfer window he failed to use? Kind of a big aspect when comparing managers... PT needed body's and he failed. JB hasn't been able to sign anybody, PT had the opportunity... Ah, that is where you are wrong. I didn't conveniently forget PT had a window. I chose to instead take into account that PT was heavily restricted on what he could do in that window.
Now I am not a fan of PT and was against his appointment and I was glad he was sacked. But lets be fair here. We were only allowed a squad of 23 players (not including youngsters) and we were already at or near the limit so PT couldn't make lots of changes that was needed. For PT to make signings, either people had to leave for him to bring in players or players were going to be left out of the 23 man squad altogether. Remember too that we have a wage budget also to adhere to so it is not realistic to have lots of players on the books but not in the 23 man squad (draining the wage budget) just so PT could have space available to bring in more players which would eat up more wages.
What PT needed was a summer window where he could have more time to get rid of players and bring in players. Not a window that is known to be very hard to sign lots of players. Therefore I am disregarding that window as a proper window for PT due to his restrictions and I will continue to compare PT and JB as managers for us. Plus, the 2 players PT brought in, were also used by JB. They've had the same players to work with and JB has done worse than PT with the same set of players. He has made us worse.
Amazing how Burton were able to sign 9 players in January to lift them clear of relegation.
|
|
|
Post by yattongas on May 4, 2021 18:18:02 GMT
Oh how th mind revels in conjecture. Where information is lacking, it will gladly fill in th gaps. e & e That should fill in the gaps Jock 👍
|
|
|
Post by lastminutewinner on May 4, 2021 18:29:31 GMT
I hated watching the "football" Coggers served up. Obviously I loved the results, but I just didn't want to watch. Just because Garner was an utter failure, that doesnt mean the decision to move towards more easy on the eye football was the wrong one. The way it was done (wholesale changes) and with a total novice in charge was clearly wrong. The amount of simple chances the opposition missed against Coughlans Rovers team was comical too. Total contrast to this season where the opposition score every time with their first shot. I think most knew that we wouldn't sustain those results for long playing like that.
|
|