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Post by Gas Go Marching In on Jul 13, 2021 6:08:56 GMT
What else can we do? Taking the knee clearly isn't very effective. It's got people talking but has also been created more division at times.
Southgate is doing a good job of uniting us. It must be demoralising for him though, seeing all his efforts to unite us get ruined by a few idiots. I almost feel Southgate should stay in his role for the purpose of changing the culture of England "fans" alone.
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Post by LJG on Jul 13, 2021 6:33:14 GMT
What else can we do? Taking the knee clearly isn't very effective. It's got people talking but has also been created more division at times. Southgate is doing a good job of uniting us. It must be demoralising for him though, seeing all his efforts to unite us get ruined by a few idiots. I almost feel Southgate should stay in his role for the purpose of changing the culture of England "fans" alone. Maybe stop booing national anthems as a start?
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pirate
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Post by pirate on Jul 13, 2021 6:45:11 GMT
What else can we do? Taking the knee clearly isn't very effective. It's got people talking but has also been created more division at times. Southgate is doing a good job of uniting us. It must be demoralising for him though, seeing all his efforts to unite us get ruined by a few idiots. I almost feel Southgate should stay in his role for the purpose of changing the culture of England "fans" alone. Maybe stop booing national anthems as a start? Kick xenophobia out of football.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2021 7:18:57 GMT
What is racism?
Not the pre scripted BS, what is it for individuals?
What I call racism may be very different to the next guy.
Also, where does the offence start and stop? Verbal, hand signals, overhear, online, comedy, old language, between friends, media?
If I'm in the shop and call my cousin a cheeky monkey or sing along to an nwa song or read a passage from Mice n Men, is that a green light for someone to complain?
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Post by Baxtinho on Jul 13, 2021 7:23:46 GMT
I'm all for ID verified social media accounts, but that wouldn't stop people booing the knee or national anthems, or singing about German bombers and the IRA.
Embarrassed to be English after the scenes on Sunday. I can't imagine any other countries fans trying to storm the stadium, fighting amongst each other and throwing bottles, and goodness knows what else.
Weird how if they'd have put the word Protest before the videos we've all seen, it'd be "The Great Unwashed" or "Woke Brigade", people calling for the water cannons.
As soon as it's England though, patriotism and national pride...
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Post by Jomo on Jul 13, 2021 7:38:38 GMT
What is racism? Not the pre scripted BS, what is it for individuals? What I call racism may be very different to the next guy. Also, where does the offence start and stop? Verbal, hand signals, overhear, online, comedy, old language, between friends, media? If I'm in the shop and call my cousin a cheeky monkey or sing along to an nwa song or read a passage from Mice n Men, is that a green light for someone to complain? For me, if I hear or see someone express negative sentiments towards any race of people, then they are openly racist. There is a difference when some people may be good friends and they make jokey comments about each other, but that's entirely down to the dynamic of that particular friendship. Some mates of mine I would be happy to tell them to * off in a jokey manner, whereas others I wouldn't feel comfortable saying that. That sort of thing. Feelings of negativity, disrespect, condescension, fear towards an ethnic group, or making jokes at their expense. Those are all traits of a racist person, in my opinion.
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Post by Baxtinho on Jul 13, 2021 7:45:11 GMT
What is racism? Not the pre scripted BS, what is it for individuals? What I call racism may be very different to the next guy. Also, where does the offence start and stop? Verbal, hand signals, overhear, online, comedy, old language, between friends, media? If I'm in the shop and call my cousin a cheeky monkey or sing along to an nwa song or read a passage from Mice n Men, is that a green light for someone to complain? For me, if I hear or see someone express negative sentiments towards any race of people, then they are openly racist. There is a difference when some people may be good friends and they make jokey comments about each other, but that's entirely down to the dynamic of that particular friendship. Some mates of mine I would be happy to tell them to * off in a jokey manner, whereas others I wouldn't feel comfortable saying that. That sort of thing. Feelings of negativity, disrespect, condescension, fear towards an ethnic group, or making jokes at their expense. Those are all traits of a racist person, in my opinion. Exactly right. I'm a little concerned at what the previous poster casually referred to as "old language", which sounds like it'd be horrendous slurs that everyone knows they'd not get away with anymore - yet behind closed doors they're happy to keep using.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2021 7:53:32 GMT
For me, if I hear or see someone express negative sentiments towards any race of people, then they are openly racist. There is a difference when some people may be good friends and they make jokey comments about each other, but that's entirely down to the dynamic of that particular friendship. Some mates of mine I would be happy to tell them to * off in a jokey manner, whereas others I wouldn't feel comfortable saying that. That sort of thing. Feelings of negativity, disrespect, condescension, fear towards an ethnic group, or making jokes at their expense. Those are all traits of a racist person, in my opinion. Exactly right. I'm a little concerned at what the previous poster casually referred to as "old language", which sounds like it'd be horrendous slurs that everyone knows they'd not get away with anymore - yet behind closed doors they're happy to keep using. I'm referring to how my grandparents or folk from villages might talk. Apologies if that wasn't clear. When I was at school, "coloured" was an accepted term. Now it isn't. I'm 41.
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Post by LJG on Jul 13, 2021 7:58:27 GMT
I'm all for ID verified social media accounts, but that wouldn't stop people booing the knee or national anthems, or singing about German bombers and the IRA. Embarrassed to be English after the scenes on Sunday. I can't imagine any other countries fans trying to storm the stadium, fighting amongst each other and throwing bottles, and goodness knows what else. Weird how if they'd have put the word Protest before the videos we've all seen, it'd be "The Great Unwashed" or "Woke Brigade", people calling for the water cannons. As soon as it's England though, patriotism and national pride... Well that seems deliberately disingenuous. I can't see that there has been any national pride about any of the scenes on Sunday or the comments on social media. As with everything it seems life must be very binary. So, on one hand we have people who think the three who missed penalties are immune from criticism because of the colour of their skin (my opinion is only Rashford deserves criticism) and any criticism of his pen strategy is essentially racist. On the other we have people who seem to have no sense of context or perspective and think that any and all outright rage at the players for anything they can think of is fair game. I would say the majority are sensible. What can be frustrating for that majority is that because of the actions of those few we must be hectored and told off for thinking and believing things we don't think or believe.
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Post by Squiffy on Jul 13, 2021 8:38:41 GMT
The most effective way to engender positive social interactions across the whole of society is to start by educating children in those skills when they are very young. We obviously tried to do our bit but my children went, by accident, to a very progressive primary school where there was a degree of ethnic diversity and inclusion of SEN children within the mainstream education environment. They were taught basic sign language, explored a variety of different faiths and were shown on a daily basis how to respect and accept each other. When they left and went to secondary school they couldn’t believe how intolerant and mean some of the other children were. They have clearly held on to those principles, which they see as the norm, calling us out when we laugh about some aspects of 70’s TV and even challenging their octogenarian grandparents, who always state the colour of the doctor they have just seen, with the words “why does that matter?”
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Post by lavalamp on Jul 13, 2021 8:48:17 GMT
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Post by Icegas on Jul 13, 2021 8:51:51 GMT
What else can we do? Taking the knee clearly isn't very effective. It's got people talking but has also been created more division at times. Southgate is doing a good job of uniting us. It must be demoralising for him though, seeing all his efforts to unite us get ruined by a few idiots. I almost feel Southgate should stay in his role for the purpose of changing the culture of England "fans" alone. Your sadly never going to get rid of racism, and that's not just in football but in life in general be and that's not just racism against black people. Its properly alittle worse today then say it was 20 years ago, but that's only because of social media and these brain dead racists having access to the players straight away from there phones to say there sh**.Before social media the only way they could say anything racist was at matches or on the street. The whole BLM has been a joke.Its a Marxist organization and I do not support it what so ever.I support black people, and want to end attacks on them,as I do for all kinds of different sections of society. I'm a human and there is only on race and that's my fellow human being. As for taking the knee... Well I think many people including myself find it offensive now.It in fact it has become a joke to what it was intended.It wouldn't have lasted as long as it has if it wasn't for COVID and not having crowds in stadiums as it would have been booed at every game like it has been in the Euros. I find it offensive as it's now a case of if you don't support taking the knee,or if you as a player you don't take the knee you are classed as a white racist.You are pigeonholed as something you are not just because you don't support the BLM organization, rather than the cause itself. The whole taking the knee has done nothing,nor will it ever do anything to end racism.In fact it's only created deeper devide within society as now young black children are being conditioned to be fearful of white people and being treated as a victim even though as a young child they probably have never experienced any racist abuse. The only way to "ease" not "end" racism is by showing greater love to your fellow man with the time we are given on the planet,and education that mainly has to start at the home. As Morgan Freeman once said. The only way to end racism is to stop talking about it.. If racism is always a thing then it's never going to go away.
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Post by Gas Go Marching In on Jul 13, 2021 8:52:52 GMT
What else can we do? Taking the knee clearly isn't very effective. It's got people talking but has also been created more division at times. Southgate is doing a good job of uniting us. It must be demoralising for him though, seeing all his efforts to unite us get ruined by a few idiots. I almost feel Southgate should stay in his role for the purpose of changing the culture of England "fans" alone. Maybe stop booing national anthems as a start? Agree.
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Jul 13, 2021 8:54:49 GMT
What else can we do? Taking the knee clearly isn't very effective. It's got people talking but has also been created more division at times. Southgate is doing a good job of uniting us. It must be demoralising for him though, seeing all his efforts to unite us get ruined by a few idiots. I almost feel Southgate should stay in his role for the purpose of changing the culture of England "fans" alone. Your sadly never going to get rid of racism, and that's not just in football but in life in general be and that's not just racism against black people. Its properly alittle worse today then say it was 20 years ago, but that's only because of social media and these brain dead racists having access to the players straight away from there phones to say there sh**.Before social media the only way they could say anything racist was at matches or on the street. The whole BLM has been a joke.Its a Marxist organization and I do not support it what so ever.I support black people, and want to end attacks on them,as I do for all kinds of different sections of society. I'm a human and there is only on race and that's my fellow human being. As for taking the knee... Well I think many people including myself find it offensive now.It in fact it has become a joke to what it was intended.It wouldn't have lasted as long as it has if it wasn't for COVID and not having crowds in stadiums as it would have been booed at every game like it has been in the Euros. I find it offensive as it's now a case of if you don't support taking the knee,or if you as a player you don't take the knee you are classed as a white racist.You are pigeonholed as something you are not just because you don't support the BLM organization, rather than the cause itself. The whole taking the knee has done nothing,nor will it ever do anything to end racism.In fact it's only created deeper devide within society as now young black children are being conditioned to be fearful of white people and being treated as a victim even though as a young child they probably have never experienced any racist abuse. The only way to "ease" not "end" racism is by showing greater love to your fellow man with the time we are given on the planet,and education that mainly has to start at the home. As Morgan Freeman once said. The only way to end racism is to stop talking about it.. If racism is always a thing then it's never going to go away. How on earth does someone kneeling down offend you? That's literally the most ridiculous thing in the world to take offense at.
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Post by Gas Go Marching In on Jul 13, 2021 8:58:58 GMT
Thanks for this. Good message. 👍
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Post by gregsy on Jul 13, 2021 9:00:43 GMT
Maybe stop booing national anthems as a start? Agree. No you don't....
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Post by Gas Go Marching In on Jul 13, 2021 9:12:00 GMT
I do. The Danish one was particularly below the belt but why not create more division hey? 😊
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Post by gregsy on Jul 13, 2021 9:13:31 GMT
I do. But why not create more division hey? 😊 I'm off to aldi to buy some cat food, that damned animal is eating me out of house and home....
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Post by Gas Go Marching In on Jul 13, 2021 9:18:34 GMT
I do. But why not create more division hey? 😊 I'm off to aldi to buy some cat food, that damned animal is eating me out of house and home.... Good choice of supermarket. 😊
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Post by Baxtinho on Jul 13, 2021 9:22:19 GMT
What else can we do? Taking the knee clearly isn't very effective. It's got people talking but has also been created more division at times. Southgate is doing a good job of uniting us. It must be demoralising for him though, seeing all his efforts to unite us get ruined by a few idiots. I almost feel Southgate should stay in his role for the purpose of changing the culture of England "fans" alone.
The whole BLM has been a joke.Its a Marxist organization and I do not support it what so ever.I support black people, and want to end attacks on them,as I do for all kinds of different sections of society. I'm a human and there is only on race and that's my fellow human being. As for taking the knee... Well I think many people including myself find it offensive now.It in fact it has become a joke to what it was intended.It wouldn't have lasted as long as it has if it wasn't for COVID and not having crowds in stadiums as it would have been booed at every game like it has been in the Euros. I find it offensive as it's now a case of if you don't support taking the knee,or if you as a player you don't take the knee you are classed as a white racist.You are pigeonholed as something you are not just because you don't support the BLM organization, rather than the cause itself. The whole taking the knee has done nothing,nor will it ever do anything to end racism.In fact it's only created deeper devide within society as now young black children are being conditioned to be fearful of white people and being treated as a victim even though as a young child they probably have never experienced any racist abuse. Can't tell if you're joking or not. Southgate came out and said they're not kneeling for any political reason, but as a stand against intolerance. We hear this argument a lot about Marxism and political leanings, but I don't think that angle is there unless you look for it.
As someone else says, to be offended by people wanting to end racism is a bit weird.
I wonder how many people booing the knee also cheered when Sterling scored. He should've celebrated by taking the knee in front of the fans, shut up all the bigots.
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