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Post by gasify on Aug 11, 2021 18:00:28 GMT
I don't want this to be a JB bashing thread as I have done that elsewhere.
This a is real question, what is going wrong with the club?
We had the last season of DC, performances were sh**e.
Then we had GC, performances were sh**e but we managed to sneak loads of wins mainly due to JCH and having a defence that no one seemed to be able to breach.
Clearly we relied on JCH to paper over the cracks but we were hard to score against.
Then under the next three managers we were/are reasonably easy to score against.
This is bigger that JB (as much as I hate the guy, he has walked into something that I don't think he expected and I do have a very small violin playing a sad song for him). What do we have to do as a club to move forward?
What is the root cause to our situation?
It cannot be just one person as it seems to be groundhog day. WTF is it?
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Post by LJG on Aug 11, 2021 18:14:31 GMT
I don't want this to be a JB bashing thread as I have done that elsewhere. This a is real question, what is going wrong with the club? We had the last season of DC, performances were sh**e. Then we had GC, performances were sh**e but we managed to sneak loads of wins mainly due to JCH and having a defence that no one seemed to be able to breach. Clearly we relied on JCH to paper over the cracks but we were hard to score against. Then under the next three managers we were/are reasonably easy to score against. This is bigger that JB (as much as I hate the guy, he has walked into something that I don't think he expected and I do have a very small violin playing a sad song for him). What do we have to do as a club to move forward? What is the root cause to our situation? It cannot be just one person as it seems to be groundhog day. WTF is it? It's not true that JCH was the only reason GC had success- there were GC wins with JCH out injured. It's also not true that performances were sh**e. sh**e performances and "sneaking" wins does not get you 4th in the league and top over the course of his last 46 games. Performances were unpopular but there you go - I think that's the answer to your question. We have a fan base that doesn't know what's good for it. We have fans praising our two worst managers in recent history (BG and JB) to high heaven while tearing down the bloke who had us 4th in reality and top over an equivalent of one season's worth of games as "sh**e" and "sneaky". We have a fan base who will bemoan the fact that a bloke who scored four goals in three seasons wasn't given another three year deal while saying that they'd drive Ellis, a key part of two promotion seasons, to his next club themselves. We're willing to put up with saying "give it ten more games ... give it till Christmas" every season then wondering why we never achieve anything. We're happy to have "the most naturally gifted player" who scores f**k all. Give it a minute and Topper will be along to tell me to stop posting opinions on a "meaningless forum".
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Aug 11, 2021 18:14:39 GMT
Good post, I said something similar on the last match thread.
In my opinion you have to look at the constants throughout that time starting from the top up.
I don't include Wael as he owns us and employs people to run the club on his behalf.
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Aug 11, 2021 18:16:16 GMT
I don't want this to be a JB bashing thread as I have done that elsewhere. This a is real question, what is going wrong with the club? We had the last season of DC, performances were sh**e. Then we had GC, performances were sh**e but we managed to sneak loads of wins mainly due to JCH and having a defence that no one seemed to be able to breach. Clearly we relied on JCH to paper over the cracks but we were hard to score against. Then under the next three managers we were/are reasonably easy to score against. This is bigger that JB (as much as I hate the guy, he has walked into something that I don't think he expected and I do have a very small violin playing a sad song for him). What do we have to do as a club to move forward? What is the root cause to our situation? It cannot be just one person as it seems to be groundhog day. WTF is it? It's not true that JCH was the only reason GC had success- there were GC wins with JCH out injured. It's also not true that performances were sh**e. sh**e performances and "sneaking" wins does not get you 4th in the league and top over the course of his last 46 games. Performances were unpopular but there you go - I think that's the answer to your question. We have a fan base that doesn't know what's good for it. We have fans praising our two worst managers in recent history (BG and JB) to high heaven while tearing down the bloke who had us 4th in reality and top over an equivalent of one season's worth of games as "sh**e" and "sneaky". We have a fan base who will bemoan the fact that a bloke who scored four goals in three seasons wasn't given another three year deal while saying that they'd drive Ellis, a key part of two promotion seasons, to his next club themselves. We're willing to put up with saying "give it ten more games ... give it till Christmas" every season then wondering why we never achieve anything. We're happy to have "the most naturally gifted player" who scores f**k all. Give it a minute and Topper will be along to tell me to stop posting opinions on a "meaningless forum". Totally disagree, we were awful in a lot of games under GC but frequently came away with points. The results papered over the cracks.
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Post by gasify on Aug 11, 2021 18:19:51 GMT
I don't want this to be a JB bashing thread as I have done that elsewhere. This a is real question, what is going wrong with the club? We had the last season of DC, performances were sh**e. Then we had GC, performances were sh**e but we managed to sneak loads of wins mainly due to JCH and having a defence that no one seemed to be able to breach. Clearly we relied on JCH to paper over the cracks but we were hard to score against. Then under the next three managers we were/are reasonably easy to score against. This is bigger that JB (as much as I hate the guy, he has walked into something that I don't think he expected and I do have a very small violin playing a sad song for him). What do we have to do as a club to move forward? What is the root cause to our situation? It cannot be just one person as it seems to be groundhog day. WTF is it? It's not true that JCH was the only reason GC had success- there were GC wins with JCH out injured. It's also not true that performances were sh**e. sh**e performances and "sneaking" wins does not get you 4th in the league and top over the course of his last 46 games. Performances were unpopular but there you go - I think that's the answer to your question. We have a fan base that doesn't know what's good for it. We have fans praising our two worst managers in recent history (BG and JB) to high heaven while tearing down the bloke who had us 4th in reality and top over an equivalent of one season's worth of games as "sh**e" and "sneaky". We have a fan base who will bemoan the fact that a bloke who scored four goals in three seasons wasn't given another three year deal while saying that they'd drive Ellis, a key part of two promotion seasons, to his next club themselves. We're willing to put up with saying "give it ten more games ... give it till Christmas" every season then wondering why we never achieve anything. We're happy to have "the most naturally gifted player" who scores f**k all. Give it a minute and Topper will be along to tell me to stop posting opinions on a "meaningless forum". I hear you LJG, I do know that GC was a 'Whiley old goat' and I respect that. The weird thing is that he was able to do the same thing with Mansfield. My hunch is two players: Jakola JCH I reckon (and please some get the stats to prove me right or wrong) that GC had more minutes out of these two players than any other manager.
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Post by LJG on Aug 11, 2021 18:20:40 GMT
It's not true that JCH was the only reason GC had success- there were GC wins with JCH out injured. It's also not true that performances were sh**e. sh**e performances and "sneaking" wins does not get you 4th in the league and top over the course of his last 46 games. Performances were unpopular but there you go - I think that's the answer to your question. We have a fan base that doesn't know what's good for it. We have fans praising our two worst managers in recent history (BG and JB) to high heaven while tearing down the bloke who had us 4th in reality and top over an equivalent of one season's worth of games as "sh**e" and "sneaky". We have a fan base who will bemoan the fact that a bloke who scored four goals in three seasons wasn't given another three year deal while saying that they'd drive Ellis, a key part of two promotion seasons, to his next club themselves. We're willing to put up with saying "give it ten more games ... give it till Christmas" every season then wondering why we never achieve anything. We're happy to have "the most naturally gifted player" who scores f**k all. Give it a minute and Topper will be along to tell me to stop posting opinions on a "meaningless forum". Totally disagree, we were awful in a lot of games under GC but frequently came away with points. The results papered over the cracks. With respect that's nonsense and a fairly good illustration of what I'm talking about. The results papered over the cracks?! The results nearly had us in the Championship! Give me that wallpaper and those cracks any day. If that was papering over the cracks this guy has started a house fire and split the gas main.
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Aug 11, 2021 18:24:20 GMT
Totally disagree, we were awful in a lot of games under GC but frequently came away with points. The results papered over the cracks. With respect that's nonsense and a fairly good illustration of what I'm talking about. The results papered over the cracks?! The results nearly had us in the Championship! Give me that wallpaper and those cracks any day. If that was papering over the cracks this guy has started a house fire and split the gas main. I didn't say there was anything wrong with the results but to say many of the wins under GC were well deserved off the back off a good performance then we will have to agree to disagree.
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Post by pucklegas on Aug 11, 2021 18:31:13 GMT
Just hearing from my mate who went to Mansfield, and some of the behaviour from our fans is truly embarrassing, and not from young people, Archie keeps asking me about the bad behaviour, and I shrug my shoulders speechless how can you explain to a 9 year old, I won t go away with him, this I find more embarrassing than the team.
Chanting joey Barton I hit who I want, unbelievable jeff.
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Post by LJG on Aug 11, 2021 18:31:20 GMT
With respect that's nonsense and a fairly good illustration of what I'm talking about. The results papered over the cracks?! The results nearly had us in the Championship! Give me that wallpaper and those cracks any day. If that was papering over the cracks this guy has started a house fire and split the gas main. I didn't say there was anything wrong with the results but to say many of the wins under GC were well deserved off the back off a good performance then we will have to agree to disagree. I guess it depends on what you consider a good performance. Being hard to score against and relying on your fitness to score late on in the game is a pretty tried and tested recipe for success. It's not pretty but I think if that's the game plan and execution is successful I don't think that can be called a bad performance.
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Post by LJG on Aug 11, 2021 18:34:46 GMT
It's not true that JCH was the only reason GC had success- there were GC wins with JCH out injured. It's also not true that performances were sh**e. sh**e performances and "sneaking" wins does not get you 4th in the league and top over the course of his last 46 games. Performances were unpopular but there you go - I think that's the answer to your question. We have a fan base that doesn't know what's good for it. We have fans praising our two worst managers in recent history (BG and JB) to high heaven while tearing down the bloke who had us 4th in reality and top over an equivalent of one season's worth of games as "sh**e" and "sneaky". We have a fan base who will bemoan the fact that a bloke who scored four goals in three seasons wasn't given another three year deal while saying that they'd drive Ellis, a key part of two promotion seasons, to his next club themselves. We're willing to put up with saying "give it ten more games ... give it till Christmas" every season then wondering why we never achieve anything. We're happy to have "the most naturally gifted player" who scores f**k all. Give it a minute and Topper will be along to tell me to stop posting opinions on a "meaningless forum". I hear you LJG, I do know that GC was a 'Whiley old goat' and I respect that. The weird thing is that he was able to do the same thing with Mansfield. My hunch is two players: Jakola JCH I reckon (and please some get the stats to prove me right or wrong) that GC had more minutes out of these two players than any other manager. I can't say you're wrong on that stat, I think there was more to it though. Abu Ogogo played a significant part in breaking things down in midfield. Tony Craig and Kilgour were reliable at the back and I always thought worthy of it if we were to go up. I just think it overlooks what the squad had as a unit to say JCH and Jaakkola carried the rest.
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Post by axegas on Aug 11, 2021 18:57:10 GMT
There are a couple of things that are linked to each other that may explain why our form ever since Coughlan left has been so dreadful.
The first is the decision made to tighten the purse strings in order to reduce the debt the club was racking up. Now the intention was really good, we were losing money at an unsustainable rate towards the end of DC’s time at the club and if we wanted to achieve a brighter future we needed to do something about it.
However the way this was executed was just completely wrong. I think we naively hoped that if we could develop players and sell them for a profit, we could mostly still afford to spend a fair bit on the playing budget.
Hence the investment in Garner, his back room staff and a large playing squad of mostly young players from Championship or Premier League academies with a few marquee signings such as Ehmer and Westbrooke to mitigate the obvious loss of proven quality as we dismantled the squad that had achieved success under DC and GC.
The trouble is the supposed ‘marquee’ signings completely flopped. Ehmer proved to be disinterested and poor defensively when we needed him, Westbrooke struggled to impose himself and Hanlan struggled to fill the boots of JCH. These younger players, the likes of Daly, Ayunga, Harries, Liddle, Koiki ect were then left in a squad with very little goalscoring threat, experience, lacking direction from the top down.
This leads me on to the replacement or lack of replacement of JCH. Getting over a million for JCH and then thinking we could just cheap out on 3 players all under the age of 25 none of which had ever scored goals consistently in the football league in their careers before, has to be one of the worst decisions the club has made in recent memory.
Even worse was the decision not rectify this in January. We had a whole month, just to roll the dice and try something new with the squad, in a way similar to Burton and we completely squandered it, instead getting an average right back in Williams and an average keeper in Day.
The consistent narrative really is we’ve lacked someone with a brain in the footballing department over the last 18 months to step in where the managers making an obvious mistake and say ‘hey look, perhaps we should not do that’
Finally the fitness and injuries we’ve racked up, I’d say is another thing to add to the what’s wrong at Bristol Rovers points tally. Every matchday squad there seems to be 3 or 4 players at least on the injury bench and this has carried over to this season. The problem is that when this has happened, we’ve had sufficient depth to make replacements but not sufficient quality.
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Post by Topper Gas on Aug 11, 2021 19:02:24 GMT
I don't want this to be a JB bashing thread as I have done that elsewhere. This a is real question, what is going wrong with the club? We had the last season of DC, performances were sh**e. Then we had GC, performances were sh**e but we managed to sneak loads of wins mainly due to JCH and having a defence that no one seemed to be able to breach. Clearly we relied on JCH to paper over the cracks but we were hard to score against. Then under the next three managers we were/are reasonably easy to score against. This is bigger that JB (as much as I hate the guy, he has walked into something that I don't think he expected and I do have a very small violin playing a sad song for him). What do we have to do as a club to move forward? What is the root cause to our situation? It cannot be just one person as it seems to be groundhog day. WTF is it? It's not true that JCH was the only reason GC had success- there were GC wins with JCH out injured. It's also not true that performances were sh**e. sh**e performances and "sneaking" wins does not get you 4th in the league and top over the course of his last 46 games. Performances were unpopular but there you go - I think that's the answer to your question. We have a fan base that doesn't know what's good for it. We have fans praising our two worst managers in recent history (BG and JB) to high heaven while tearing down the bloke who had us 4th in reality and top over an equivalent of one season's worth of games as "sh**e" and "sneaky". We have a fan base who will bemoan the fact that a bloke who scored four goals in three seasons wasn't given another three year deal while saying that they'd drive Ellis, a key part of two promotion seasons, to his next club themselves. We're willing to put up with saying "give it ten more games ... give it till Christmas" every season then wondering why we never achieve anything. We're happy to have "the most naturally gifted player" who scores f**k all. Give it a minute and Topper will be along to tell me to stop posting opinions on a "meaningless forum". Seriously, it's all the fans fault? So does that mean if the whole fan base got behind JB results would improve? As far as GC whether fans liked his style of play or not, ironically most were probably backing him after the Ipswich win, we had no control over him being poached by Mansfield.
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Post by Topper Gas on Aug 11, 2021 19:06:34 GMT
Good post, I said something similar on the last match thread. In my opinion you have to look at the constants throughout that time starting from the top up. I don't include Wael as he owns us and employs people to run the club on his behalf. Why does Wael always avoid the flack, surely he employs the likes of Starnes and Gorringe, who both seem incapable of organising anything without it going wrong.
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Post by socrates on Aug 11, 2021 19:17:19 GMT
I hear you LJG, I do know that GC was a 'Whiley old goat' and I respect that. The weird thing is that he was able to do the same thing with Mansfield. My hunch is two players: Jakola JCH I reckon (and please some get the stats to prove me right or wrong) that GC had more minutes out of these two players than any other manager. I can't say you're wrong on that stat, I think there was more to it though. Abu Ogogo played a significant part in breaking things down in midfield. Tony Craig and Kilgour were reliable at the back and I always thought worthy of it if we were to go up. I just think it overlooks what the squad had as a unit to say JCH and Jaakkola carried the rest. Ogogo was key for us in breaking things up as was Sinclair for a few years before him. Last season we had no tough ball winner which was one of the reasons for our relegation amongst many others.
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Post by gasify on Aug 11, 2021 19:24:40 GMT
Just hearing from my mate who went to Mansfield, and some of the behaviour from our fans is truly embarrassing, and not from young people, Archie keeps asking me about the bad behaviour, and I shrug my shoulders speechless how can you explain to a 9 year old, I won t go away with him, this I find more embarrassing than the team. Chanting joey Barton I hit who I want, unbelievable jeff. With respective Pucklgas, feel free to JB bashing on the Mansfield thread or the Carboa cup thread (I have quite a bit, it is deserved). However, this thread is about trying to understand why so many managers in the last couple of years have delivered groundhog day. It cannot be one manager as the majority have done it.
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Post by gasify on Aug 11, 2021 19:26:56 GMT
Good post, I said something similar on the last match thread. In my opinion you have to look at the constants throughout that time starting from the top up. I don't include Wael as he owns us and employs people to run the club on his behalf. Why does Wael always avoid the flack, surely he employs the likes of Starnes and Gorringe, who both seem incapable of organising anything without it going wrong. I guess you are referring to season tickets?
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Post by rememberhalifax on Aug 11, 2021 19:27:13 GMT
I was happy with GC , got the best out of what we had but do not think it would have lasted, it is not true to say he did the same at Mansfield, he failed there and was sacked.
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Post by gasify on Aug 11, 2021 19:33:42 GMT
I was happy with GC , got the best out of what we had but do not think it would have lasted, it is not true to say he did the same at Mansfield, he failed there and was sacked. That's the interesting bit though isn't it. It kinda shows that he hasn't really got the football managers brain but he seemed to get the best out of the players he had when he was here. Why couldn't anyone else. Agogo was with us for the whole of last season yet 3 managers failed to play him.
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Post by Nortongashead on Aug 11, 2021 19:36:54 GMT
The biggest problem is a lack of unity at the club.
1) We have a supporters club that does nothing to unify the support and only seeks to undermine to satisfy its own agenda.
2) We have a passionate owner that can't run a bath. Harsh but only Rovers could clear debts and get relegated.
3) We have a manager that will always divide moral opinion.
4) We have lost a lot of football matches and been extremely poor which in turn has got most supporters at their wits end with the club.
5) We have a leadership team that is not clear in its way forward and constantly firefighting.
6) We play at a football stadium that is way out of date and resembles a mish mash of terraces and stands. Not a problem when the football on the pitch is decent.
7) We have a very ageing fan base that tends to be more cynical.
For me the root cause is a lack of unity.
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Post by seanclevedongas on Aug 11, 2021 19:41:46 GMT
We will have lots of match day threads and player ratings for the games under GC.
If someone has the time and the knowledge of how to look them up it would be interesting to see what we thought during his reign?
Maybe I Voted For Kodos has the stats?
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